The deal is pending the Mets and Santana reaching agreement on a six- or seven-year contract extension and that Santana passes a physical; they have been granted a 48 to-72-hour window to do so. Santana has a no-trade clause that he will waive if agreement is reached on a contract extension.
You'd think the Mets would be have no leverage and just give Santana whatever he wants here, but the M's/O's stuff going on proves strange things can happen.
If this does go thru, it sure seems like this took so long because the Twins absolutely did not want to make the Red Sox or Yankees better. They seemed to have better offers there, and would've been able to get more done this offseason. There's little point in keeping Joe Nathan around if Santana is gone and they're in rebuilding mode, but they really don't have much time left to work something out before Spring Training.
I take it this also means Pedro Martinez is out the door after this year, which is the last year of his 4-year deal. No way the Mets can afford to keep both guys and I don't think Pedro's ready to retire just yet.
Somewhere out there, Yankees fans are banging their heads against a table. Red Sox fans can't complain too much, because they were never really that serious about Santana to begin with.
Theoretically, the Mets can't be touched now in the NL East. Of course, we all said the same thing last year before the offense and pitching completely fizzled, so you never know.
I think the Twins gave up too easily. This could have been settled like the Kobe Bryant situation. Let Santana play with the Twins for a month and let him see he had a perfectly good thing, especially with Francisco Liriano coming back.
(edited by It's False on 29.1.08 1437)
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I wouldn't make the Mets an absolute lock in the East, because there is no one other than Santana that I would have complete faith in in the Mets rotation, including a Pedro that hasn't been healthy for the majority of the past 2 seasons. Would have loved to have Santana in Boston, as he and Beckett as a 1/2 punch would have been lethal. However, it is better that Santana is out of the AL than in pinstripes, and now, should the Bedard trade go through, that means the Red Sox face those 2 dominant lefties a total of 1 or 2 times this season, rather than a potential 10-12 had Bedard stayed in Baltimore and Santana arrived in the Bronx.
Four prospects for arguably the best pitcher in baseball? As a lifelong Twins fan, I couldn't be more disappointed. This is almost like the Vikings giving away the farm to the Cowboys for Herschel Walker. Way to not be competitive this year. 162 games to rebuild for 2009.
And all is right with the world once again. My co-workers and I heard about this on ESPN and we were shocked that the Mets basically gave up as little as they did. 4 minor league players for Santana and not one of them was Fernando Martinez, our top prospect. Humber and Gomez were taking up spots anyway; I don't think either one is going to do better than bench players anytime soon. This doesn't guarentee a NL East for us just yet (Starting pitching is fine, but we really need better middle relief), but at least it might keep us from having another distasterous ending to the season like last year.
I think the Mariners are giving up equal talent for a lesser pitcher (of course he's a lot more cost friendly) in Bedard, but I really thought that Hughes, Kennedy, Melky deal was the best thing out there ... if it ever really was out there to begin with.
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Originally posted by It's FalseSomewhere out there, Yankees fans are banging their heads against a table.
You'd be surprised, False. If you talk to most Yankee fans here in New York like myself, you'd understand that our interest in Santana was of the "prevent him from going to Boston" type, not the "we must have him at all costs" type. We're tickled pink that he will not be suiting up for the evil ones, and that we didn't need to give up two guys with an excellent chance to be cornerstones for the franchise for the next decade in Hughes & Cabrera in order to make that happen. I'm just fine with running into Santana at most twice in the regular season during interleague play and the World Series, thank you very much.
I have to agree with others though that the Mets stole him at that price, as the Hughes/Cabrera/+1 package we were offering beats that handily. Still, I don't blame Minnesota for pulling the trigger. If they were going to get something for Santana, it had to be now, and I wouldn't have liked their chances in their hellish division if they decided to swallow their losses and take one more shot with him. Their mistake was waiting too long to make this deal.
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Originally posted by BigDaddyLocoI think the Mariners are giving up equal talent for a lesser pitcher (of course he's a lot more cost friendly) in Bedard, but I really thought that Hughes, Kennedy, Melky deal was the best thing out there ... if it ever really was out there to begin with.
It sounds like the M's are giving up MORE talent in a Bedard/Jones et al-swap. I hope Angelos KILLS that deal for good.
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Originally posted by Jimmy OFour prospects for arguably the best pitcher in baseball? As a lifelong Twins fan, I couldn't be more disappointed. This is almost like the Vikings giving away the farm to the Cowboys for Herschel Walker. Way to not be competitive this year. 162 games to rebuild for 2009.
Acquiring a bunch of prospects for one star worked out pretty darn well for the Cowboys. Wait and see.
How you uh, how you comin' on that novel you're working on? Huh? Gotta a big, uh, big stack of papers there? Gotta, gotta nice litte story you're working on there? Your big novel you've been working on for 3 years? Huh? Gotta, gotta compelling protaganist? Yeah? Gotta obstacle for him to overcome? Huh? Gotta story brewing there? Working on, working on that for quite some time? Huh? Yea, talking about that 3 years ago. Been working on that the whole time? Nice little narrative? Beginning, middle, and end? Some friends become enemies, some enemies become friends? At the end your main character is richer from the experience? Yeah? Yeah?
Originally posted by redsoxnationI wouldn't make the Mets an absolute lock in the East, because there is no one other than Santana that I would have complete faith in in the Mets rotation, including a Pedro that hasn't been healthy for the majority of the past 2 seasons.
Oh please, the anti-Mets biased is getting ridiculous. Only three teams (San Diego, Atlanta, and LA) had a duo of pitchers with lower ERAs than Maine and Perez and that's even after both slowed down in the second half. Both are only 26 and haven't hit their prime yet. Maine hadn't pitched more than 16 games before last year so it might just be a matter of getting used to a longer schedule. Now they have Johan as their ace and possibly Pedro and El Duque? Even if Pedro and El Duque are only healthy for parts of the season that's far better than the pitching staff the other East teams have and the offense is way better than LA, San Diego or Arizona. New York's only real concern is if Heilman and Duaner Sanchez can bounce back, but even if they aren't they are still better than Philly and Atlanta's horrible bullpens. Lidge is going to get demolished pitching in Philly.
Originally posted by Big Bad Acquiring a bunch of prospects for one star worked out pretty darn well for the Cowboys. Wait and see.
I don't think the prospects are that good though. Carlos Gomez is good and is a guy the Mets wanted to keep (which is one of the reason it was dumb to trade Lastings for nothing because they should've used him in this trade and kept Gomez) but the others I'm not sure about. Humber had a lot of hype at one point but he hasn't exactly been impressing people lately. The other pitchers are pretty much just hopeful contributors.
Both the Yankees and Red Sox deals they had on the table originally were WAY better but the Twins gambled on getting a better deal from them and didn't.
Prospects and starting pitchers are probably the biggest gambles in the game; prospects because there's no guarantee that they'll continue to develop (especially in an age where "development" often comes from the end of a syringe) and starting pitchers because you never know when their arms are going to blow up. Gomez has the potential to be a starting outfielder in the big leagues, perhaps even an all-star (depending on how his frame fills out over the next few years), while Deolis Guerra (who had a decent season in Class A while still being too young to vote) could someday be a frontline starting pitcher. So, with the above caveats in mind, let me offer my own humble opinion that the Mets STOLE Santana from the Twins. As has already been mentioned, the package that Minnesota got from the Mets is grossly inferior to what the Yankees were reportedly offering for Santana, and is comparable to what the Mariners are offering the Orioles to get Erik Bedard. One could even make the argument that the Twins would have been better off keeping Santana for the 2008 season and then scooping up the draft picks after he signed with another team next winter. Or look at it this way: the Mets gave up more to get Victor Zambrano and Ryan Church than they did to acquire Johan Santana. While there's no guarantees in baseball (re-read the first sentence above) this is a HUGE pick-up for the Mets.
Originally posted by MisterHendersonI don't think the Mets are gonna be able to sign him. I think Santana is pricing himself out and I don't think the Metsies are gonna be able to meet it.
When you have a chance to lock up the best pitcher in baseball in his prime you find the money. You make trades of other guys. You raise ticket prices. You take out a loan. You beg for change on the street.
If I were a Mets fan, and they have this deal out there, and they don't make it happen due to money I would be pissed off beyond words.
Originally posted by Downtown BookieAs has already been mentioned, the package that Minnesota got from the Mets is grossly inferior to what the Yankees were reportedly offering for Santana, and is comparable to what the Mariners are offering the Orioles to get Erik Bedard.
I've heard speculation that possibly Phil Hughes (and definitely not both Hughes AND Kennedy) was never truly on the table, and neither were Buchholz, Lester, or Ellsbury. Just my opinion, but while I am sure the 4 prospects they're getting from the Mets are somewhat well-regarded, none of them are regarded as highly as the five players between NYY/BOS. It was discussed that both clubs, The Sox and Yankees, may have leaked those players names in order to drive up the price for the other (or whoever else). I don't know if I totally buy into that, but it made for good conversation.
I'd always felt that Hughes/Kennedy/Cabrera/prospect was way too much for even the best pitcher, since they'd have to throw $150 million at him on top of losing 3 current productive players on the roster that were making league minimum.
Barring injury, the projected starting rotation looks to be:
Johan Santana (L) Pedro Martinez (R) John Maine (R) Oliver Perez (L) Orlando Hernandez (R)
Santana and Martinez are a deadly one-two combo, but they aren't the best in the league. That would be Arizona, who's boasting an absolutely sick Haren/Webb combo. And if Peavy and Young still bring the goods, I'll stick the Padres behind them. In general, I'd still argue that the Haren trade is a much higher-impact deal than the Santana trade, since Haren is a couple of years younger than Santana and was every bit as good as Santana last year. That's without mentioning the fact that Arizona didn't have to break the bank for him. Not yet, anyway.
Having said that, the Mets easily have the best rotation in the division and shouldn't have any trouble finishing first. Barring injury, of course.
(edited by It's False on 3.2.08 2257)
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I was thinking the same thing. I don't know when Livan suddenly became a great pitcher this year. He's not even close to as good as he was in 2001 when he had 14 ERA in the World Series much less his years in Florida.