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wmatistic
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Since: 2.2.04
From: Austin, TX

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I'm glad they fired him by phone. I'm glad he cried while telling his players. Like I said before, he deserves to feel some real pain for his inaction. Whatever he was told in 2002, even he admits he didn't do enough, which says to me he knew what went on.

The only feelings I care about here are the victims, and Joe Paterno is not one of them.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.41
    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    This is going to be an unpopular opinion, but I can't agree with the decision to fire Paterno now. All we know about his involvement in this whole sordid affair is that the GA saw the 2002 incident, reported it to Paterno, who immediately reported it to Curley (who had it in his job description to oversee the police and thus involve them), who dropped the ball and lied about it. As far as we know, there's no evidence Paterno knew about the 1998 incident, or anything that happened after Sandusky was barred from State College campus (because he just took his charity stuff to smaller satellite campuses, where Paterno had no purvey). We don't even know definitely the level of detail with which the GA described the 2002 incident to Paterno. And we haven't had an opportunity to hear Paterno's side of the story. (By all accounts, Paterno was ready to give it yesterday before the Penn State administration threw up the blue wall of silence.)


I would like to hear Paterno's side of the story, but c'mon, saying that Paterno did his part by running it up the chain of command is ludicrous. At Penn State, Joe Paterno IS the chain of command, moreso than any AD or school president. If he reported things to Curley and nothing happened, why didn't Paterno raise holy hell?



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.01
If someone came to me and said that one of my coworkers had raped a minor in our office, my immediate action would probably be the same as Paterno's: I'd consult my superior. But I sure as hell wouldn't just forget about it, that's a damn serious accusation. I would expect to be told what was being done, and if I wasn't told there would be a thorough investigation immediately, I'd call the police myself. This is an even more reasonable expectation given Paterno's stature and, as has been said, the fact that he really was the top boss in the culture of the place, if not in title.

It's certainly possible that those above Paterno told him it was investigated and nothing was there, but I've encountered no stories hinting at that possibility, and it seems like Paterno would have offered it as a defense by now if it was the case. Thus, he was negligent. If he didn't know what was going on, it's because he chose not to know what was going on.

Listening to the news conference of the board of trustees VP announcing the decision really irritated me. The media members asking questions seemed indignant. Questions I heard included: He worked for 46 years for the university and you fire him over the phone? What is the harm in letting him coach this weekend? Is this the end you think Joe Paterno deserved?

Joe Paterno is not a victim here, people. Those protests are equally dumb; this guy was fired because he turned a blind eye to one of his staff members using his position with the university to rape children. I don't think Paterno is an evil guy, or at least nothing about this makes me think that, but he needs to be held accountable nonetheless. Being 84 years old doesn't change that.

I am with StegDutchie though: Why the hell is the grad assistant still employed? Why is *anyone* even remotely associated with this mess still employed?
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.07
There are tons of unansweted questions. Who would it harmed really if joe pa stepped aside to not coach this weekend until things calmed down? And now, amidst the storm and a riot, should they play the game, where things could end up looking like a soccer riot in glasgow or buenos aires or istanbul?

Things are said to be getting worse when details about second mile come out.

What did mrs sAndusky know?

Disturbingly, anyone else surprised sandusky hasnt killed himself yet?



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ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
"Being accused of a crime is not a disgrace, Chief. Some of the great figures of history have shared the honor with you."

"I never figured on dying a martyr."

"Not all of them were martyrs. Not all of them died. Some were just innocent men-- like you."

--Odo and Chief O'Brien, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

I understand that Penn State is not a court of law and thus can fire their coaches whenever they want to, but seriously... no due process whatsoever? Really?



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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.20
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

    Originally posted by Big Bad
    I would like to hear Paterno's side of the story, but c'mon, saying that Paterno did his part by running it up the chain of command is ludicrous. At Penn State, Joe Paterno IS the chain of command, moreso than any AD or school president. If he reported things to Curley and nothing happened, why didn't Paterno raise holy hell?

The problem is that IMO, we just don't know enough about what happened to say if Paterno did his part or not. Everyone is just assuming (based on reasonable logic, I'll grant you) that he didn't - but still, if that's how the legal system worked in this country, we'd have way more instances of wrongful conviction than the too many we already have. We needed to hear from Paterno and have the full story play out before a decision was made on him. Instead, the administration chose to unceremoniously wash their hands of him, and given that Paterno neither committed nor directly witnessed Sandusky's actions, and all that Paterno did for the school over a 46-year period, I think he deserved better. But that's just me.



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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.71
    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
      Originally posted by Big Bad
      I would like to hear Paterno's side of the story, but c'mon, saying that Paterno did his part by running it up the chain of command is ludicrous. At Penn State, Joe Paterno IS the chain of command, moreso than any AD or school president. If he reported things to Curley and nothing happened, why didn't Paterno raise holy hell?

    The problem is that IMO, we just don't know enough about what happened to say if Paterno did his part or not. Everyone is just assuming (based on reasonable logic, I'll grant you) that he didn't - but still, if that's how the legal system worked in this country, we'd have way more instances of wrongful conviction than the too many we already have. We needed to hear from Paterno and have the full story play out before a decision was made on him. Instead, the administration chose to unceremoniously wash their hands of him, and given that Paterno neither committed nor directly witnessed Sandusky's actions, and all that Paterno did for the school over a 46-year period, I think he deserved better. But that's just me.


At the very least wouldn't you make sure he wasn't around the program or if he was, have him watched like a hawk? If he was that close to you, wouldn't you talk to him?



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Since: 28.8.09

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.01
"Due process" doesn't apply to a private employee. I can't believe people don't see the difference between Sandusky remaining innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and Penn State firing JoePa.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.52
The old man lost control of the ship. He probably should have been forced out years ago. He's 84 now and around 72 then. He might be a nice guy and still have his wits, but I don't know anyone that age that can handle that kind of grind day in and day out.

At worst he helped cover things up for the good of the program and he should be fired for that. At best he did not grasp the weight of the situation and is plain ignorant and if that's the case he should be fired for that as well.

redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
Now, when do the Board of Trustees offer their resignations, as the chain of command beneath them completely failed? If it was a night game, I'd worry about riots, not for a noon game. Plus, with the Big Ten having a championship game now, forfeit would be the only option rather than postponement, and then you are looking at impacting potentially 7 schools.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 12 hours
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.09
    Originally posted by ekedolphin
    "Being accused of a crime is not a disgrace, Chief. Some of the great figures of history have shared the honor with you."

    "I never figured on dying a martyr."

    "Not all of them were martyrs. Not all of them died. Some were just innocent men-- like you."

    --Odo and Chief O'Brien, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

    I understand that Penn State is not a court of law and thus can fire their coaches whenever they want to, but seriously... no due process whatsoever? Really?


The due process was the indictment over the weekend. If you actually read the damn thing, it came out looking like a giant cover up by the school. Instead of moving forward Joe Pa seem content to sweep it under the rug while still doing the legal thing. As Big Daddy said he was either part of the cover up which there is no doubt in my mind and apparently the state of Pennsylvania that there was one. If he did nothing or didn't know what was going on in his locker room then he has lost control. Joe is also none of those things O'Brien and Odo, as fictional as they are they have more honor and morality than him.

He also set himself up for this years ago when he took the moral ground against the Barry Switzers and Miami Hurricanes of the world. Paying kids seems a hell of a lot less of a crime compared to kids getting raped by one your assistant coaches on campus to boot. If anything the riot last night proved everything bad I said about Penn State since I was 11 years old. They are petty angry group who have no idea what the real world looks like and want to live in their Mason family cult of personality that Joe Pa created. They sicken me and I wish the NCAA had the balls to give them the death penalty not for just football, but for the whole damn college.

They pretty much proved my lunatic rantings, so good for them. I am utterly disgusted reading any pro-Joe or Penn State crap, get your head out of your ass. It sucks too, because I do know PSU fans who feel that the college has lost control and are as disturbed by this. Unfortunately, their voice is lost in all of this as well. If the game gets canned so be it. Its just a game, people's lives are getting crushed all over again due to this. It would be nice if we actually thought about the victims instead of some has been coach no one would hire after we entered the 21st century.



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Since: 3.1.02
From: Northern NJ

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.53
I am currently a trustee at a school. As a trustee, you are charged with the care & oversight of the overall institution. I would have voted to fire Paterno immediately and I would have voted to fire everyone associated with it too.



I think my kids are trying to kill me

JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.98
    Originally posted by DrDirt
      Originally posted by Texas Kelly
        Originally posted by Big Bad
        I would like to hear Paterno's side of the story, but c'mon, saying that Paterno did his part by running it up the chain of command is ludicrous. At Penn State, Joe Paterno IS the chain of command, moreso than any AD or school president. If he reported things to Curley and nothing happened, why didn't Paterno raise holy hell?

      The problem is that IMO, we just don't know enough about what happened to say if Paterno did his part or not. Everyone is just assuming (based on reasonable logic, I'll grant you) that he didn't - but still, if that's how the legal system worked in this country, we'd have way more instances of wrongful conviction than the too many we already have. We needed to hear from Paterno and have the full story play out before a decision was made on him. Instead, the administration chose to unceremoniously wash their hands of him, and given that Paterno neither committed nor directly witnessed Sandusky's actions, and all that Paterno did for the school over a 46-year period, I think he deserved better. But that's just me.


    At the very least wouldn't you make sure he wasn't around the program or if he was, have him watched like a hawk? If he was that close to you, wouldn't you talk to him?


I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think that if Joe Paterno went to the AD (his "boss" on paper and in title, if not in practice) in 2002 and told him what was alleged and the AD TOLD Paterno "OK, *I* will handle this," then Paterno is in a forgivable, if an easily Monday Morning Quarterbacked, position. Because if *I* was Paterno I can say (1) I wouldn't really *want* to believe that a guy I worked with for so long could have such a dark side and (2) I sure as hell would be happy to pass along the task of doing the due diligence and processing this whole sordid deal to someone else. I'm not saying some denial wouldn't be involved, but maybe Paterno was told (or believed) that he passed it along and if there was any way that what he was told was *really* true that there isn't any way Sandusky would still be walking free.

For me, I can't understand how McQueary is *still* not being held to the fire. Where are the reporters camped outside *his* house? If he *actually* saw what he alleged in that shower (which you have to believe he did since he testified to it to the grand jury) I have no idea how he could even set foot anywhere near that campus with Sandusky still free.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

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Since: 8.10.03
From: flyover country

Since last post: 14 days
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.71
JayJay

It's not that I don't somewhat agree but until I knew what the "being handled" was, I would have gone to Sandusky and explained that he couldn't be at the facility until it was cleared up and what was alleged.

Under the letter of the law he may have been right but he needed to do more whether he couldn't believe it or not.



Perception is reality
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 3 days
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Y!:
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.98
    Originally posted by DrDirt
    It's not that I don't somewhat agree but until I knew what the "being handled" was, I would have gone to Sandusky and explained that he couldn't be at the facility until it was cleared up and what was alleged.


I don't disagree but when you take something to your boss it becomes *his* job to tell Sandusky (once he accepts the responsibility). I know it sucks and it's easy to judge but Joe was an employee at a government institution, so there was a protocol he needed to follow. That's why the ex-school president and ex-AD are so screwed.

None of this should be taken as a show of support for them keeping Paterno as coach, because he HAD to go, and the sooner they clear EVERYONE out of there and start over the sooner the real healing can start for that community. I'm just saying there IS a scenario where Paterno could have a side of the story that is more understandable than it seems.

EDIT: Just came across this on McQueary. Some excerpts (with bold added by me)...


    “It’s not that he’s not willing,” John J. McQueary, his father, said about his son’s public silence. “I think it’s eating him up not to be able to tell his side, but he’s under investigation by the grand jury. He’ll make it. He’s a tough kid.”

    *snip*

    He has said under oath that he saw Sandusky raping what appeared to be a 10-year-old boy. He immediately left, met with his father and determined he would report the incident to Paterno, according to prosecutors.A person familiar with his account said McQueary did not spare the details when he met with Paterno. Nor did he when he met with the university’s athletic director and another senior administrator, the man in charge of Penn State’s campus police.


(edited by JayJayDean on 10.11.11 0953)


Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.20
Ladies and gentlemen, the following public service message is brought to you by your friends from D-Generation X, who would like to remind each and every one of you that if you're not down with that, we've got two words for you...

Completely agreed with Jay on every count. The key thing to remember is that we "think" this and "think" that, not know this and know that. Firing Paterno should have been reserved for the point in time when we reach the latter, and we're nowhere close to being there yet.



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Since: 27.6.02

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.36
The BOT had been looking for a way to get rid of Paterno for literally years prior to this, but he's always turned them down. Now they just had an extremely good reason.



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Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#38 Posted on
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    Why the hell is the grad assistant still employed?




McQueary might be protected by the “Whistleblower” law.





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Lise
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Since: 11.12.01

Since last post: 476 days
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
This says it better than I could:
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2011/11/10/omelas-state-university/

There is no way for me to even contemplate anything with this without overlaying the face of every ten year old boy I've ever known or will ever know.

Here's the grand jury report. I don't generally give warnings on things... but this is seriously horrible and disturbing reading. You probably don't want to read this if you have kids and still need to function today.

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/sandusky-grand-jury-presentment.pdf
Eddie Famous
Andouille








Since: 11.12.01
From: Catlin IL

Since last post: 12 hours
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56

    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    Completely agreed with Jay on every count. The key thing to remember is that we "think" this and "think" that, not know this and know that. Firing Paterno should have been reserved for the point in time when we reach the latter, and we're nowhere close to being there yet.


You seem to be under the strange impression that "we" have any stake in the decision. It doesn't make one whit of difference what "we" know or don't know. There is every indication that the board has been made aware of many things "we" don't know of.

They most likely know more about it than "we" do.



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