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The W - Pro Wrestling - RVD is TNN (Spoiler) (Page 6)
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Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 12 days
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#101 Posted on
Come on now, no matter how you feel about his workrate, Undertaker is still massively over and has put in some serious quality work in undercard programs so far this year.



Satire 03/24/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.17 gets a 7.87 So...Spike and Wood have Oedipus complexes...riiiiight...
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1429 days
Last activity: 337 days
#102 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by Excalibur05
    Come on now, no matter how you feel about his workrate, Undertaker is still massively over and has put in some serious quality work in undercard programs so far this year.


I could say the same thing about RVD. And guess who's wrestling on Heat?



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3748 days
Last activity: 3218 days
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#103 Posted on

    Originally posted by FurryHippie
    I kind of disagree there cause I'm a big history buff. I still look at the Raw Tag Titles (no matter how shitty the division) as the REAL titles. They're the ones with history (in the same way I see Angle's as the TRUE WWE TITLE as opposed to the Triple H title, with it's WCW/handed to him roots). Thus, I see it as if THE tag titles are not on the show. These same tag titles have been defended for years and years. The ones Team Angle has are relevant, but they're not THE titles in my eyes. I would have liked the familiar titles to be on the show as well.


See, I can see your point, but they still don't have the storyline relevance that the SD titles have at this point in time. The SD belts have been hotly contested for some time, while the Raw ones are just now actually "officially" being defended again.

I think the match as it stands has been given exactly the right position, all things considered. If I were booking? I'd have scheduled the match between RVD/Kane and the Dudleyz for Wrestlemania, instead of this past Raw, with the champs ducking the match because they hadn't been a team long enough. That match, I could see putting higher on the card, there's actually a bit of a grudge there. As it is, it's one of the warmup matches to start things off with a bang. That's important. Jerking the curtain isn't necessarily a *bad* thing... after all, people have just gotten there, they're ready for fun, they haven't had a lot of time to get hungry/uncomfortable/bored... people are more likely to be up for this match here than they would be if it was sandwiched in the middle of the show.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 13 hours
AIM:  
#104 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy

      Originally posted by Excalibur05
      Come on now, no matter how you feel about his workrate, Undertaker is still massively over and has put in some serious quality work in undercard programs so far this year.


    I could say the same thing about RVD. And guess who's wrestling on Heat?



But Taker has the edge on experience and history, so he gets the nod.



Satire 03/24/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.17 gets a 7.87 So...Spike and Wood have Oedipus complexes...riiiiight...
Jakegnosis
Morcilla








Since: 26.7.02
From: Maine

Since last post: 2861 days
Last activity: 2845 days
#105 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91
I think Hardy vs. Mysterio would be the best curtain-jerker.

Yes, the Undertaker has to be on Wreslemania because he's an old standby and he has a 'Mania run goin' on. His match is going to suck, but we have to accept that and move on.

However, RVD is far more over than Hardy or Mysterio, and I believe Kane is, too. I think RVD and Kane deserve to be on the WM card far more than either of the cruisers, and I really enjoy both Matt and Rey Rey.

In addition, I think the cruiser match would be the perfect curtain-jerking Heat match because it will be fast-paced, with lots of big spots and some "holy shit!" moments. It is almost certainly going to be good. It's exactly the kind of match that would make someone on the fence about ordering the PPV say "dude, that was fuckin' cool. I'm gonna buy that shit." The RAW tag match has potential, but it could also be a mess, which would be very bad for the on-the-fence crowd.



Moo hoo ha ha.

Rangers lead the way
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#106 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54


    However, RVD is far more over than Hardy or Mysterio, and I believe Kane is, too. I think RVD and Kane deserve to be on the WM card far more than either of the cruisers, and I really enjoy both Matt and Rey Rey.


It's a shame that somebody worthy has to miss out just so friggin' Nathan Jones and Vince McMahon get to be on the card.




"I have no intention of uttering my last words on the stage. Room service and a couple of depraved young women will do me quite nicely for an exit."-- Peter O'Toole

"I'm gonna rip the eyes out of your head, and piss down your dead skull!"
-- Jack Nicholson, in A Few Good Men

Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 13 hours
AIM:  
#107 Posted on

    Originally posted by Big Bad


      However, RVD is far more over than Hardy or Mysterio, and I believe Kane is, too. I think RVD and Kane deserve to be on the WM card far more than either of the cruisers, and I really enjoy both Matt and Rey Rey.


    It's a shame that somebody worthy has to miss out just so friggin' Nathan Jones and Vince McMahon get to be on the card.



Again, do you have a better partner for Undertaker?

And, whether we like it or not, Hogan/McMahon draws. I know people who have never been wrestling fans who know that that match is going down.



Satire 03/24/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.17 gets a 7.87 So...Spike and Wood have Oedipus complexes...riiiiight...
OMEGA
Lap cheong








Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 1941 days
Last activity: 1909 days
#108 Posted on

    Originally posted by Excalibur05

      Originally posted by asteroidboy

        Originally posted by Excalibur05
        Come on now, no matter how you feel about his workrate, Undertaker is still massively over and has put in some serious quality work in undercard programs so far this year.


      I could say the same thing about RVD. And guess who's wrestling on Heat?



    But Taker has the edge on experience and history, so he gets the nod.



Oooh. A "paying his dues" argument! RVD has been wrestling almost just as long as Undertaker has. Just because Undertaker got to WWF first (because of size) doesn't mean that he has "more experience" than RVD. And even if he did, the argument is still total bullshit. Do you think fans sit at home and say, "I like that RVD guy. But he's only been with the WWF for 2 years. I hope he loses all the time! He doesn't deserve to be champion."

I just have a hard time picturing it.



asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1429 days
Last activity: 337 days
#109 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by Excalibur05

      Originally posted by asteroidboy

        Originally posted by Excalibur05
        Come on now, no matter how you feel about his workrate, Undertaker is still massively over and has put in some serious quality work in undercard programs so far this year.


      I could say the same thing about RVD. And guess who's wrestling on Heat?



    But Taker has the edge on experience and history, so he gets the nod.



Aside from the paying dues argument, I'd argue that RVD is still gonna be around in 5 years. Okay, he's gonna be around AND mobile.


... now that I think about it, the match I would REALLY like to see is RVD/Mysterio. There's a fucking match that has Wrestlemania written all over it.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me
Jakegnosis
Morcilla








Since: 26.7.02
From: Maine

Since last post: 2861 days
Last activity: 2845 days
#110 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91

    Originally posted by Excalibur05

      Originally posted by Big Bad


        However, RVD is far more over than Hardy or Mysterio, and I believe Kane is, too. I think RVD and Kane deserve to be on the WM card far more than either of the cruisers, and I really enjoy both Matt and Rey Rey.


      It's a shame that somebody worthy has to miss out just so friggin' Nathan Jones and Vince McMahon get to be on the card.



    Again, do you have a better partner for Undertaker?

    And, whether we like it or not, Hogan/McMahon draws. I know people who have never been wrestling fans who know that that match is going down.



Why does the Undertaker need a partner? He could just wrestle Big Slow, in a match that will at least have a quantifiable level of suck, whereas adding Albert to the mix isn't bringing anything to the party, and Nathan Jones could be the catalyst that brings us to a new, never before seen low in professional wrestling.

It'll be worth watching for the trainwreck quality, anyway.



Moo hoo ha ha.

Rangers lead the way
Mystic Gohan 2003
Chipolata








Since: 18.10.02
From: Tulsa Oklahoma

Since last post: 180 days
Last activity: 140 days
AIM:  
#111 Posted on
maybe they like angering fans, i mean look at axxess, cost cutting and over charging. So hey theyve been on a roll, so why not. (the following post had little sense ; )) and i am really computer illeterate, i still can't figure out how to work my pic.



And that's...a GOOD THING!
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1987 days
Last activity: 1921 days
#112 Posted on
"Oooh. A "paying his dues" argument! RVD has been wrestling almost just as long as Undertaker has. Just because Undertaker got to WWF first (because of size) doesn't mean that he has "more experience" than RVD. And even if he did, the argument is still total bullshit. Do you think fans sit at home and say, "I like that RVD guy. But he's only been with the WWF for 2 years. I hope he loses all the time! He doesn't deserve to be champion.""

Taker has been consistently and hugely over for the past eleven years, and has remained a top star throughout that time. he's pretty much the biggest wrestling success story outside of Hulk Hogan. He's been able to adapt and change his persona with each passing era of the sport, and still puts on decent matches when he's motivated, unlike most wrestlers of his age/experience. He's pretty much the number one big guy wrestler America has ever seen. Contrast that with RVD. His act has been exactly the same since he became a breakout star in ECW. he has not changed one little bit, and the cracks in that persona are really beginning to show, with fans becoming more and more apathetic to him. And don't argue that's because of his "position on the card", because true breakout stars-guys like Austin, Rock, currently Booker-get huge reactions regardless. That's what forces the company to pay attention to them. Look, I like van Dam and all, but will never be an Undertaker-level star. Hell, he'll never be a Booker T-level star. He's not capable of filling out that much character, that facet which drives a feud-witness his embarrassing attempts at personality during his clashes with Triple H and Flair last Sept/Oct. time. He just can't do it. He's fine being an upper-midcard kinda guy who gets a healthy reaction and keeps the crowd attentive, but he can't carry any more than that.




Hail To The King, Baby

dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 44 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#113 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    I'd argue that RVD is still gonna be around in 5 years. Okay, he's gonna be around AND mobile.


RVD's gonna be pushing 40 in 5 years time and he doesnt really strike me as the type who'd be able to keep himself motivated enough to perform at the highest level for that long.

Besides which his contracts up in a year and from what we're led to believe he hasnt exactly been falling over himself to re-sign.


    Originally posted by Jakegnosis
    However, RVD is far more over than Hardy or Mysterio, and I believe Kane is, too.


He is? They are? This must be the famous IWC over-ometer at work again. Dang I wish I had one.

The crowd's been mostly apathetic toward RVD matches for some time now largely because, as oldschool said, hes been putting on the same match since he arrived. He and Kane are undoubtedly still getting pops but these are largely confined to the R..V..D chants and Kane's entrance rather than their ring work.

By contrast the popularity of Matt and Rey is very much on the upcurve, hence they are more deserving of a push. Matt has an increasingly engaging characetr and has shown real willingness to vary his moveset in the past year and the live crowds have really been getting into his gimmick.

Rey gets uber-pops not only for a cool enterance but also for his ever-innovative and uniformly brilliant ringwork. Once they get round to giving him more character depth he has the potential to be a real star.


    Originally posted by OMEGA
    Anyone who thinks Triple H doesn't have anything to do with RVD's demotion needs to get their head out of their ass.


I do? Shit, thanks for letting me know.


    Originally posted by OMEGA
    RVD had been a tippy-top midcarder all year, and flirting with the main-event.


    Yeah that feud with Golddust was one of the most thrilling main event level feuds in years. Oh wait...


      Originally posted by OMEGA
      Then, he hit Triple H with the frogsplash at Survivor Series. Then, it happened. He was left off the next PPV. He was at the Royal Rumble, but only because they needed thirty guys to fill-out the match.


    As far as I was concerned he was only ever booked as filler in the Elimination Chamber cos they needed 6 RAW guys to fill out the match. Most of the people I know (myself included) loved RVD when he first came in but started becoming increasingly passive to him around KOTR time largely cos we were just seeing the same old, same old from him. Hence, IMO, his toddle down the card.

    Even allowing for this drastic depush, he was still mentioned as recently as 3 or 4 weeks ago by Trips as one of the guys he wanted Evolution to take out in the #1 contender clusterfuck.


      Originally posted by OMEGA
      He was in an un-important match at No Way Out, that was announced a week before the show with no build-up.


    You mean like the one you're so upset about being shown on Heat instead of WM?


      Originally posted by OMEGA
      But it's not like the incident at Survivor Series was somewhat Triple H's fault. Noooooo way. It's not like Triple H was way too close. It's not like, even when RVD struggled desperatley to not hit Triple H, there was nothing RVD could do. It's AAAALL Van Dam's fault.


    So it was all HHH's fault? Quelle suprise. Hell its not like he absolved RVD of all blame in interviews afterwards and emphasised that it was just an accident. But of course, that was all just a big cover so he could push RVD down the card without anyone suspecting a thing. What a cunning little fox this Hunter chap is.


      Originally posted by OMEGA
      Have I mentioned that some people are just fucking stupid?


    Yes, but its always nice to be reminded.




    "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1429 days
Last activity: 337 days
#114 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
RVD's gonna be pushing 40 in 5 years time and he doesnt really strike me as the type who'd be able to keep himself motivated enough to perform at the highest level for that long.

Besides which his contracts up in a year and from what we're led to believe he hasnt exactly been falling over himself to re-sign.


Maybe. I don't have any first-hand knowlege of it, but I think that RVD's at the very least motivated to earn a living, which he's done for many years as a wrestler.

dMr, the arguments about his ringwork are valid. He HAS been predictable and putting on the same matches. BUT.. I could say that about half the guys on the card, many of which, like Albert, Big Show, Undertaker, and HHH are on the Wrestlemania card. From a business standpoint, it's not smart for them to leave one of their biggest stars off their biggest show in the year. That's like going to a Simon & Garfunkel concert and the promoter comes out five minutes before showtime and says, "Ummm... Simon ain't coming."


And I don't think it's any coincidence that he's been shunted down the card after his HHH feud.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 15 hours
AIM:  
#115 Posted on
The coyote goes...


    Originally posted by Big Bad
    Well who would YOU rather see more of? The "spot oriented" wrestler or Big Show?


SPOT ORIENTED BIG SHOW.



I own a Gamecube, and I own Eternal Darkness.
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1429 days
Last activity: 337 days
#116 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95

    Originally posted by Lexus



      Originally posted by Big Bad
      Well who would YOU rather see more of? The "spot oriented" wrestler or Big Show?


    SPOT ORIENTED BIG SHOW.



Fuck yeah!



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 479 days
Last activity: 479 days
#117 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy

      Originally posted by Lexus



        Originally posted by Big Bad
        Well who would YOU rather see more of? The "spot oriented" wrestler or Big Show?


      SPOT ORIENTED BIG SHOW.



    Fuck yeah!








Mania would be the perfect time for Big Slug to break out the moonsault he was working on in WCW on Nathan Jones.



Translated from Australian, Nathan Jones means El Gigante's less talented smaller brother.
JayGo
Cotechino








Since: 2.1.02
From: Norfolk, England

Since last post: 195 days
Last activity: 168 days
AIM:  
#118 Posted on

    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    From a business standpoint, it's not smart for them to leave one of their biggest stars off their biggest show in the year. That's like going to a Simon & Garfunkel concert and the promoter comes out five minutes before showtime and says, "Ummm... Simon ain't coming."


WORST. ANALOGY. EVER.

1. At a Simon and Garfunkel concert, there is Simon and Garfunkel. They are the main, and only attraction. At Wrestlemania, there is RVD, Kurt, Brock, Benoit, Rhyno, Team Angle, Eddie, Chavo, Matt, Rey etc etc etc. Heck, even the catfight girls...

2. There's been slightly more warning than five minutes. A week, for example.

3. It's not incredibly smart, no. But it is slightly smarter when HE'S ON HEAT ANYWAY.

So, in short.. it's like going to a Garfunkel concert, being told a week earlier than Simon is appearing, then getting there and watching Simon, followed by Garfunkel, followed by numerous other popular musicians whom you like.

Seriously, no one is forcing you to buy the PPV... I don't recall them promising before anyone ordered it RVD would definitely be wrestling...
BionicRedNeck2k3
Tocino








Since: 24.1.03

Since last post: 4120 days
Last activity: 4117 days
#119 Posted on
You see I've never seen what the big to-do about RVD is. I mean he's kinda exciting to watch at times,but he's a bit lethargic to be a high flying spot oriented type wrestler, and it seems that all of those years in ECW working spot fests and hardcore type matches has taken its toll on him. Besides this he has the personality of a rock and says very little that interests me, maybe thats why he's been depushed to upper-midcard hell, not because HHH has put him in his place. I mean its funny how all of the problems in the WWE, which there are a ton, can all be blamed on one guy.RVD is a bit wreckless with his own body let alone the poor guys he's in the ring w/ and in the WWE that doesnt pass.And this is why I wish they wouldnt have done away w/ the Intercontinental and US title, it gave upper-midcard guys like RVD and Kane and I'm afraid to inform you all Booker T, a secondary title to the World Title to hold and feud over.To me if you were to compare this roster to the 80's era WWF RVD would be Ricky Steamboat, a guy who was a great worker, had some amazing moves but was never really "the guy". My advice would be just to enjoy RVD for what he is and not get so wrapped up in where he is on the card and whether he holds the Title, I'm sure he does'nt as long as he's being payed.



"You go ahead and talk about your psalms and your "John 3:16", Well "Austin 3:16" says I just whupped your ASS!!".
Mystic Gohan 2003
Chipolata








Since: 18.10.02
From: Tulsa Oklahoma

Since last post: 180 days
Last activity: 140 days
AIM:  
#120 Posted on
card subject to change...



And that's...a GOOD THING!
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