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The W - Pro Wrestling - Russo: Take #12432454360 (Page 2)
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AWArulz
Knackwurst








Since: 28.1.02
From: Louisville, KY

Since last post: 2 days
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Y!:
#21 Posted on

    Originally posted by rockdotcom_2.0
    Anybody who actually thought putting the WCW title on a half ass B grade actor was a good idea doesnt not deserve to associated with wrestling ever again.


Oh, I think Hogan's done a few good runs over the years...



He's got the Iron Claw sunk in!!
HarleM HeAt
Pickled pork








Since: 23.3.02
From: Nova Scotia,Canada

Since last post: 3713 days
Last activity: 3519 days
ICQ:  
#22 Posted on
Keep in mind, and this is not a shot against russo because within wwf days i had no problem with 95% of the product. In wcw he was debatable becuase most the anglers were recycled wwf ones. HIs first wcw run was 50-50 cuase i rember good changes but also bad ones. Powers that be i thoiught was lame, bringing in the harris's made no sense and burying cruiserweights. It was the shits, despite the fact that i still think he is above averge booker in many ways. Point of this is that after russo left in oct 99 from about there, maybe Jan 2000 up until wrestlemania x7 i felt wwf had there most enetertaining year since 98. And i dont mean by the numbers but i mean for me to watch personally was bomb booking minus a few incedents that can go unmentioned. foley-hhh feaud, the radicals jumping over(who all havce been some of my favorite workers since about 93,minus saturn),Kurt Angles emergence, benoit-jerchio interocntinal feud. wwf had emerged as the better workrate fed with good, seasoned workers in great scenerios and star power extreame and that was without austin. Russo influence while helpful in his heyday was not a nessisty except for a few concepts he may of gave vince. Could vince have came back to prominence if he never had russo. I cant answer that. Would Attitude been invented withouit russo. who knows? What i do know while he deserves credit there's other ppl who should be given more.



"YOUR PERSONALITY IS DRY, AND IM GETTING THIRSTY"
Well Its The Big O
Cotechino








Since: 7.1.02
From: Ho Bart

Since last post: 3852 days
Last activity: 3047 days
#23 Posted on
Nobody knows who wrote what and who had the most influence, but keep this in mind. When Russo and Ferrara jumped to WCW, WCW became WWF. The product, at least to me, was the exact same product with a different cast and maybe a little less focused or whatever but essentially the same product I'd been watching on WWF.



________________________________________
The Big O - Sucking Less Every Day.
cfgb
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.87
No. WCW was NOT dead prior to Russo arriving. It was in trouble - but the fact remains they were still a wrestling company first and foremost, and some fine tuning could have helped them. WCW would have never drawn WWF ratings - but I believe that with proper booking of a WRESTLING company they could have sat at 4.0 and been happy.

The problem was that Russo was brought in to quick fix the ratings. And he did it the only way he knew how - hot shotting angles, T&A, and retarded vignettes that don't sell pay-per-view.

WCW had alot of problems granted, but to suggest that Russo wasn't the ultimate killer is ludicrous. He decided to kill the Cruiserweight Title. He decided to kill the TV Title. These are things that had long been established as cornerstones of the federation and things to build around. Hot young lightweights flipping around, or imported stars from Mexico and Japan. The strong midcarders looking for their way to the top needed the TV Title. Booker T and Arn Anderson are top guys who used the TV Title as a propeller.

I believe strongly that if WCW, under proper wrestling management had brought in a gameplan that there was a direction in which they were going where a new star would be elevated properally, while others sat in the wings everything would have been fine. The needed organization. That person is out there somewhere. I don't know who it is - if he's even been discovered.

Vince Russo was the ultimate cancer. I don't care to look back fondly about the stuff he "did well" because that son of a bitch killed my favorite wrestling company by trying to bring in his brand.

I don't care to ever see his face again.




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Well Its The Big O
Cotechino








Since: 7.1.02
From: Ho Bart

Since last post: 3852 days
Last activity: 3047 days
#25 Posted on
You're talking silliness. I agree that WCW died the second they started to become the WWF and stopped being a wrestling show with the introduction of Russo. But Russo was hired by the WCW management to do just that, so don't blame Russo for writing a Russo show just like they hired him to do, blame the people who fatally compromised the brand of WCW by bringing him in.

And while we're talking about fatally compromising the brand of WCW, who did more damage to it than Eric Bischoff? I remember back in 94 and 95 when WCW looked exactly like WWF did in the late eighties, fucking Bischoff hired every old Hogan opponent and lackey he could find, Ted Dibiase, Ultimate Warrior, Earthquake, Randy Savage, he even fucking well hired Zeus for christ's sake, Zeus from that Hogan movie No Holds Barred!!!

He even went so far as to create 'new' versions of Andre and Warrior with 'The Giant' and 'The Renegade'. I mean, Russo was the logical extension of all of that and the only thing that could be done if they couldn't credibly claim to be a wrestling WCW product anymore.

I agree completely that WCW could have and should have always been the 'wrestling' show, the alternative, the 'real' wrestling company that it took over from and always showed signs of being a part of.



________________________________________
The Big O - Sucking Less Every Day.
AJ_Levy
Mettwurst








Since: 31.3.02

Since last post: 3819 days
Last activity: 3816 days
#26 Posted on

    Originally posted by cfgb
    No. WCW was NOT dead prior to Russo arriving. It was in trouble - but the fact remains they were still a wrestling company first and foremost, and some fine tuning could have helped them. WCW would have never drawn WWF ratings - but I believe that with proper booking of a WRESTLING company they could have sat at 4.0 and been happy.

    The problem was that Russo was brought in to quick fix the ratings. And he did it the only way he knew how - hot shotting angles, T&A, and retarded vignettes that don't sell pay-per-view.

    WCW had alot of problems granted, but to suggest that Russo wasn't the ultimate killer is ludicrous. He decided to kill the Cruiserweight Title. He decided to kill the TV Title. These are things that had long been established as cornerstones of the federation and things to build around. Hot young lightweights flipping around, or imported stars from Mexico and Japan. The strong midcarders looking for their way to the top needed the TV Title. Booker T and Arn Anderson are top guys who used the TV Title as a propeller.

    I believe strongly that if WCW, under proper wrestling management had brought in a gameplan that there was a direction in which they were going where a new star would be elevated properally, while others sat in the wings everything would have been fine. The needed organization. That person is out there somewhere. I don't know who it is - if he's even been discovered.

    Vince Russo was the ultimate cancer. I don't care to look back fondly about the stuff he "did well" because that son of a bitch killed my favorite wrestling company by trying to bring in his brand.

    I don't care to ever see his face again.



Okay, obviously you were a WCW fan and you hate Vince Russo, but to say WCW was well and fine before they hired him is an absolute fallacy.

Where do I begin?

WCW was haemorraging money. It had guys like Piper, Savage, Hogan, etc., with big fat guaranteed contracts, veto clauses, and guaranteed title reigns. Now when your company is doing ratings around 4, decent PPV buyrates and sold-out arenas like they did during the Sting - Hogan feud, fat contracts like that are well and fine. When your federation does 2's, has to give away a lot of tickets or even 'rent-a-crowd' for their shows, and is struggling for PPV buyrates, it starts to create huge losses for your company.

These backstage politicians meant that upper-midcard guys ready to take the next step, as Raven, Saturn, Jericho, and Disco were at various times, couldn't.

And here's a different thought. Having a wrestling company as parrt of a media conglomerate and using that corporation's resources has its strengths and weaknesses. Being a self-contained company has strengths and weaknesses. WCW was saddled with the disadvantages of both and the benefits of neither.

You had crummy music-bed music for enterance themes instead of either having a propper music department OR using Warner Music's extensive library. You had an often inept video production film where, even with the Turner Networks, there were professional producers. You had the slap-dash website that was nowhere near the standard of either standalone competitor WWF NOR produced by AOL, recieving all the "me too" traffic.

They were basically a live television taping with a hugely expensive talent roster.

WCW was also pushed into a no-man's land by WWF Attitude winning the ratings. Was it to be the kid's show WWF was in the '80s? Was it to be a propper wrestling show? Was it to go head to head with the WWF with sports entertainment? It had a serious identity crisis and changed direction from week to week.

Propper management on the business side, the creative / talent relations side and of the over-all business with one creative person with a wrestling, business and marketing background would have worked great. But before good storytelling could make even the slightest difference, large sections fo the company, from the structure at the top to the Power Plant to the commentary team would have to be rebuilt or, in too many cases, built from scratch.

To make matters worse, it was covered by the bureaucracy of TWX and, eventually, AOL Time Warner and saw accountants with no wrestling background try to run the company.

The problem is WCW needed to spend more money to get on track, and the cost-cutting of people like Bill Busch actually caused bigger losses; they didn't understand the business.

Vince Russo was no doubt an egomaniac thinking he could reverse the course of the company from the booking chair; but there were many factors that lead to the destruction of WCW.

If Russo had never been hired, with the course the company was on, and under the often worse booking of Kevin Sullivan, the company would have sunk eventually.

And saving the company would have taken several years of consistant good management, heavy losses and consistantly good product.
CTX
Italian








Since: 11.5.02

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#27 Posted on
May I just add that during Russo's first run (Oct-Dec 99) the rating actually went UP!

When Russo was suspended and Sullivan was put in charge, the ratings fell almost immediately to their lowest point ever.

How could you expect Russo to come back and save the company with management that makes such crap decisions as putting Sullivan in the chair?
Freeway
Scrapple








Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 254 days
Last activity: 19 hours
#28 Posted on
Ratings went up for the first Russo run because people had heard all about it and were curious. Ratings went up for the WWF after Russo left, too, but it doesn't mean anything.



Holden: Judging by the buzz, that movie's gonna make some serious bank.
Jay: What buzz?
Holden: The internet buzz.
Jay: What the f*ck is the internet?
[Holden (Ben Affleck) & Jay (Jason Mewes) in Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back]
PandaMask
Cotechino








Since: 14.5.02
From: Protected by the World Wildlife Fund

Since last post: 4476 days
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#29 Posted on
Pandas are People Too!!! Get off Russo's ass.


Someone said something smart about Russo booking Arquette as the WCW champion. Well I got two letters for that: L.T. That's right, Lawrence Taylor. The football player who was too blown up to win a match, but did so AND killed Bam Bam Biggelow's career. Choke on that. Thanks Vince.


Russo Shot on Hogan. Bash At the Beach 2000. He's the reason Booker T and Jeff Jarrett got any heavyweight gold.


HE'S MONEY BAY BEE!!


Two words: Gerald and Patrick


The McMahon Helmsley Error


Stephanie McScreech


He made Jericho the heel he should have been right off in the WWF. He was there to save the WWF. But he can't save it from a power tripping Triple H.


He shot on Goldberg and gave us a great humbling of "Da'man" via Scott Steiner.


Norman Smiley, Crowbar, The Revolution, The Filthy Animals, MIA and Team Canada were just some of the people who got an awesome intro and push due to him.




We Won! FUCK YOU WRESTLING FANBOYS!! WWF FOR LIFE!! *Insert Nelson laugh here*
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Backlund was the NWA Missouri champ (which at the time was a fairly important title) in 1976 so scratch him from the list.
- spf, World Title Question (2003)
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