Originally posted by WhitebaconGive McNabb some decent defensive talent surrounding him and lets see how "overrated" he is.
But then doesn't that make Rush's point? Lots of folks think he's jesus, but without guys around him he can't do it. This is true in a lot of cases.
People think he's Jesus because of how he's won football games with hardly any kind of offensive support. He can't do everything by himself. Philly's receivers aren't terrible, but neither James Thrash and Todd Pinkston are legit number one receiving threats. They are number twos at best. Hell, John Elway couldn't win a Super Bowl without a decent running game. McNabb often times is the leading rusher for the Eagles. And not in a Mike Vick- break two 50 yard runs- and a couple of shorter long runs- way. He does it in a 12 carries for 65 yards while throwing for 275 yards and two or three TD's way. Yes, Philly's D has been great the last three or four years, but this isn't a Baltimore Ravens/Trent Dilfer situation. McNabb isn't the caretaker of this offense, he's counted on to make big plays in the offense. To say he only gets credit and publicity because he's black is asinine.
EDIT: I have no problems with the assertation that McNabb is overrated. I think he's wrong, but that's his opinion. When he brings skin color into it is where he crosses the line.
(edited by Whitebacon on 1.10.03 1816) Cub Fear looms for fans in Atlanta, San Francisco and Florida.
Cub Fear is real.
Cub Fear is frightening. Brian Murphy, ESPN.com's Page 2
Originally posted by GrimisThe criticism of McNabb's ability to get it done is legitimate, regardless of the racial aspect. He's good, but he's no Vick either.
You're right. Vick hasn't taken his team to the NFC Championship game. Give McNabb some decent defensive talent surrounding him and lets see how "overrated" he is.
I'm with you. I love Rush, but he is flat wrong about McNabb's ability. McNabb has never had a great receiving core. He hasn't had a great offensive line. He had a decent but not explosive runner. Granted, he had a great defense, but you still have to do your part on offense. So what did McNabb do? He only carried the team to the NFC championship game two years in a row, and came within a hair of getting to the Super Bowl. McNabb did underachieve in the first two games, but he will always bounce back, and has already done so. I don't know what else McNabb can do to prove his immense worth to Philly or to certain football pundits.
Molly, Stacy and Daffney all in WWE? I suddenly lost all my will to complain about anything regarding the WWE. Hope I don't lose my street cred for this.
TS, the greatest Wiener rated 6.1554 ever to live!! Oops, I mean 5.5...4.5?? Oh, dammit! I guess Notorious FAB was right.
What does CBS expect putting Rush freakin' Limbaugh on MNF? You know the guy's going to say something like this. That's a commentator's job. Don't want the kind of commentating Rush does, don't put him on the air. Don't act all shocked after the fact.
Rush is dead wrong. Maybe 15 years ago he would have had a point (about as long as the right has managed to drag out the bogeyman of "Political Correctness."). But today is totally different. The most overrated guy today (and maybe always) by the media is the throwback white guy. You are just never going to convince me that Donavan McNabb is overrated by the media and Payton-fucking-Manning is not. Of course, nobody's going to say that Payton Manning (or Jeremy Shockey, for another) is overrated by the media because they want a white guy to do well. There'd be a bigger fuss than the Rush thing. That's the real media bias and P.C-ness going on. It's a shame that you can't talk about it without people like Russ saying "isn't it shameful how liberals play the race card every chance they get over something like FOOTBALL?" Oh the irony.
(edited by MoeGates on 1.10.03 2230) "I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about 'man on dog' with a United States Senator. It's sort of freaking me out."
Associated Press interview with Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA), 04-07-2003.
This seems to me the inverse of that old Isiah Thomas quote about how "if Larry Bird was black, he'd be just another good player." I think both Isiah and Rush are idiots, so it's a push.
"When this bogus term alternative rock was being thrown at every '70s retro rehash folk group, we were challenging people to new sonic ideas. If some little snotty anarchist with an Apple Mac and an attitude thinks he invented dance music and the big rock group is coming into his territory, [that's] ridiculous." - Bono, 1997
I agree with moegates, Rush is making a point that is about 10-15 years too late. I believe that Doug Williams was overrated, and that may have had something to do with his skin color. But now, with so many black quarterbacks in the league, there is no reason for the media to feel the need to boost this issue up. I think it's pretty much dead. If he is overrated (and I'm not sure that he is), it probably has more to do with the success of the team, and QB's get more credit than they deserve for that.
However, I still don't see anything wrong with having such an opinion. It's not racist. In fact, if he's doing anything, he's accusing the media of being racist. Shouldn't it be OK for somebody to have an opinion, even if it is one that most people disagree with?
Everything that is wrong in this world can be blamed on Freddie Prinze Jr.
The funniest thing about this - the media *has* pimped McNabb like the second coming of Unitas. Just look at the revisionist history happening as we speak - the following is from just about every columnist and paper I have read...
"McNabb carried his team to the last two NFC Championships..."
McNabb BROKE HIS ANKLE last year and didn't play the last six games of last season. The incomparable duo of Koy Detmer and AJ Feely won 5 of the last six games - thanks to what the Philly papers used to call a "stiffling defense". The strong finish gave The Eagles a first round bye and then a Home Game against a very inexperienced Atlanta team. The Eagles won easy, thanks to the DEFENSE nearly pitching a shutout against Vick. This was the game where McNabb returned, to get warmed up for the REAL test the following week against Tampa Bay:
The Bucs came to Philly and kicked their teeth out. McNabb looked like an amatuer, which, at the time, was blamed on his "rustiness". He could have been 100% and it wouldn't have made a difference. As as matter of fact, the Eagles BEAT Tampa at the Vet earlier that year - thanks to the DEFENSE, who stiffled Tampa. McNabb was 100% and had a totally horrendous game that nearly got him heckled out of Philly. But enough of that...
My point is - since Rush's comments, McNabb has become an even BETTER Quaterback! *carrying his team* to victory, despite not even playing. And the people saying that are the same people that have blasted Rush - the sports media. It seems to be okay to rewrite history for the benefit of proving a point, which appears to be that Limbaugh is a "racist". That's a heavy word to throw around, especially if you are the type of columnist or talking head who forgets to feign disgust and use the "finger quotes in the air" when saying the word "nigger" on National Sports Television. Rush took the high road on this and resigned -and good riddance...we damn sure can't have any intelligent points of view on Sunday Pregames to get in the way of the genius that is Bradshaw and the up and coming Michael Irvin, who can't go 2 segments without reminding the viewer that he is black - or as he says "a brotha". But that's okay...Irvin was never overrated and didn't need a defense to carry him. He had Troy...
Demonstrations are a drag. Besides, we're much too high...
I'm for freedom of speech which means Rush can say whatever he wants. Everybody on talk radio has said that Jeremy Shockey is overrated because he is white and not one damn person objected to those comments. Shockey's hype is based on future potential and not what he has already accomplished.
The chicken/egg question is whether the media has created a story with McNabb/Vick or whether one was already there. Those have been the two best selling NFL jerseys for the last few years.
I'm a big NFL East fan and I've been watching all the Giant games for awhile now and Phily never could beat the Giants. Phily had a great physical secondary and very good linebackers. I think Rush is wrong because I've watched McNabb win games nearly by himself. He may not be as accurate a passer as Kerry Collins but even a Giant fan would take McNabb.
CBS doesn't hire anyone to appear on Monday Night Football (ABC probably hires their own people), ESPN hired Rush for their Sunday show.
I thought that Rush had lost weight and was no longer obese. Even if he still is, assailing him for being "fat" is wrong and isn't far removed from assailing someone on the basis of race, gender, religion, or sexual preference. (To cut off the defense of "Fat can be changed", some people are genetically pre-disposed to being overweight.)
Rush spoke his opinion, he caught flack, and he resigned. I don't know if I agree with him or not, I personally think that Steve McNair doesn't get enough credit, but I also think that Rush's point does have some validity.
I whole-heartedly argee with the comparison between Isaiah Thomas' remarks and Rush's remarks. Course, Larry got his revenge, didn't he? Maybe McNabb can buy a radio station that carries Rush's show and cut it from the rotation.
Originally posted by skorpio17I'm for freedom of speech which means Rush can say whatever he wants. Everybody on talk radio has said that Jeremy Shockey is overrated because he is white and not one damn person objected to those comments.
You are correct there. Rush wasn't saying anything about McNabb's race, he was suggesting OTHERS (i.e. the media) were using race as a factor in their amount of coverage of McNabb. That's like calling someone racist because he is accusing others of being racist. How stupid.
Rush, of course, was probably smart to resign, but not because he couldn't keep politics out of his football talks. Rather because everyone else, it seems, couldn't do the same.
Back to what Skorpio said, check out this article on Shockey from late August from Dan LeBatard (who also has a presence on ESPN media). Though he says Shockey playing in NY has a lot do with his hype, he also suggests it's because he's white and refers to him as "The Great White Hype". Tell me the difference and why no one is lambasting him. Could it be that he's a silly sportswriter who doesn't involve himself in politics? Hmmmmm....
I wasn't offended by Rush's comments in the sense that I thought he was more talking about fans, commentators and sports writers than McNabb. Given Rush's track record for commentary, it's easy to see how this has been scooped-up and run with like a fumble in a playoff game.
McNabb has good skills and has had good spurts, but his overall completion percentage (55%) mark him as not Top Ten material. Does he have the potential to be an Elway or Steve Young? I think so.
Do I personally want to see black QBs succeed? sure. I feel like I already do. Steve McNair is one of the toughest and best QBs in the league.
There was a historical stereotype that black QBs can't play (read: don't have the intelligence to digest playbooks and read defenses) and they get over with their athleticism (i.e., Cunnigham). Having someone like McNair or McNabb have continued success does chip away at those long standing sterotypes.
If we want to talk overrated QBs (black or otherwise)--we should point to Kordell Stewart and Jake Plummer.
Didn't I read something about Bob Kraft proposing this right after the season ended? (and coincidentally the Patriots missing the playoffs) I believe it was the 8-team concept that Sec19 was talking about?