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The W - Print - RSN Briefly Analyzes An Underrated Historical Point from "The Strange Death of Liberal England"
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 1815 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.52
I'm not sure if this is a direction this new forum is going, but I'll give it a shot in an attempt to keep it running:

Written by George Dangerfield in 1935 and republished in 1997 by Stanford Press, Dangerfield examines the rapid decline of the Liberal Party from 1906 through the outbreak of World War I, as well as other issues pertinent to the British Empire at the dawn of the 20th Century.
The area that I'd like to look at, and would greatly appreciate the input of our British friends on the board, is the very real possibility of Civil War occurring in Britain regarding the Irish question just prior to the outbreak of World War I. With the uprise of the proletarian class allowing for the Labour Party to begin to make inroads on the Liberal Party on the left and record numbers of strikes occurring in London and throughout the country, the home-rule for Ireland question was a tipping point for the British. If not for Sarajevo and the idiocy run amuck in the courts of Europe in July-August of '14, the British may have been in a war by the fall of '14, but not in a Continental War.
That begs the question: If the smoldering tinderbox of Europe doesn't get lit by the Franz Ferdinand assassination, but instead gets lit in the winter/spring of '15 while the British are deeply involved in a Civil War over Ireland, how does the balance play out? Do the French and Russians dare challenge Austria Hungary/Germany without the British Fleet being able to check the German Fleet? And, does this cause the Collapse of the Third Republic, which was being held together by threads and the rise of fascism to come out of France, and countered by Germany?

(edited by redsoxnation on 1.12.04 2238)

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Summer sausage

Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
I honestly don't think there would be enough working-class Englishman willing to die for Irish independence to think a civil war could have erupted in England in 1914. Strikes, civil unrest, maybe the occasional anarcho-syndicalist terrorist attack ... but not civil war.

A war in Ireland, on the other hand, seems to have been very likely in 1914. Click Here ( to read a very good site. If England was bogged down in a war in Ireland in 1915, would they have joined Russia and France in a war with Germany? I think they would have.

WWI was pretty inevitable the way it did shake out. The Zeitgeist was echoing with war drums, and people thought that "modern war" would be quick and decisive. If Ferdinand didn't get offed, something else would have lit the spark, and the British Empire would have found a few million cannon-fodder troops to fight the Hun, even if a few ten thousand were in Ireland.

If I could fix me up a week of twilight hours
we'd sit on the point
and watch the sun continually flounder.
Bathed in gold we'd plug into some kind of power
and connect with those days
back before all of this went sour.
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Man - that sucks. I found his Wheel of Time novels to be very entertaining, and will miss the story. In the greater scheme of things, though, I'm sure what he wrote doesn't matter as much as the people he touched in his life.
- ScreamingHeadGuy, Robert Jordan 19482007 (2007)
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