Originally posted by lotjxI am a little more shocked that in Boston, anything Cena did was meet with silence. ADR winning is interesting, but it falls under push too soon for me. You would think they would learn after Brock not to give a guy a RR win and WM title shot in one year of employment. Miz/Cena, Orton/Punk, Edge/ADR, Taker/Wade, for Mania equals a meh from me.
A WrestleMania populated by strong up-and-comers and a WWE that's looking to the future is only "meh" - lotjx strikes again! What COULD WWE put on at this juncture - or any juncture, really - that would get you excited?
I'll never understand the argument of "push too soon" as it relates to someone as obviously talented, savvy and experienced as Del Rio. He's not Brock Lesnar. He's been wrestling for ten years, and he comes from the industry.
He comes MMA. And as soon as there is a problem, I can see him going back to that. Unify the damn belts, reveal who the GM is, not throw Cena in the title match, give Morrison and Bryan something to do besides the MITB match where someone less deserving will win. Something different then what has been obvious when the "rumored" card came out. Miz/Cena been there done that, it will be tweaked with Cena as the challenger, but really no difference. We will just have a lot of Reily vs. Cena and tag matches in the next few months. Orton/Punk now makes sense since they shoe horned Nexus into the Miz/Orton feud. Edge/ADR could be a good feud. Yet, I would have rather have seen Punk, Morrison or someone who has been there longer then a year get it.
WWE's major problem is shoving titles on people who have not been around a long time. I remember when it took people a long time to get even the world title. Now, its flavor of the month booking. Someone is hot or sorta hot right now, lets put the belt on them and see if it maybe works out. Then it blows up in their face and they have to go back to the reliable ones like Cena, Taker, Edge and Orton to carry it til a new flavor of the month comes along. Just because gets one good pop or some positive commentary online doesn't mean he is world title ready. Look at Punk, Swagger and Orton. All disasters their first time holding the belt even though the IWC loved them. They needed more time learning then they did being pushed to the top.
Originally posted by JustinShapiroThe difference, as I understand it (Cubs?), is that Dos Caras Jr. was a bland and not very good luchador, but WWE signed him because he was Hispanic with size.
Dos was what Ted Dibiase is right now. Great family lineage, great look and size for the promotion, everyone believing he'll be main eventing the biggest show of the year real soon - but it just never clicked with him, no matter what props they gave him. Dibiase is a better worker and Dos was stuck at the position for many more years, but it's the easy match up.
Originally posted by ME! in a Raw thread from January 4My hope is they plan to pay off all this parkour master stuff by booking Morrison as the guy who can't be eliminated from the Rumble under conventional rules. I could see him, more than anybody before, hanging in the Rumble forever by exploiting the "both feet must touch the floor" thing and going from the ring to the desk/guardrail/one foot/both hands etc. and managing to get back in the ring.
The only (partially correct) Royal Rumble Prediction that matters!
Re: Nash's appearance, I feel like Kevin Nash's entire career has been leading to one thing and one thing only, and that is Kevin Nash, NXT Host. All the groundwork he laid with nWo Saturday Night, finally coming to fruition.
Originally posted by ekedolphinOf course WCW had no business unmasking Rey in the first place (which was caused by Nash kayfabe) and the feud was ultimately won by Nash, but still.
With that in mind, did WWE have any real reason to unmask Dos Caras Jr. when they repackaged him to become ADR? It's called storyline progression.
For the record, I found Rey to become infinite times more entertaining unmasked in WCW as a member of the Filthy Animals than anything else he did during his tenure there. He had personality.
Really? I found him annoying and he looks like a little kid. He was far more over with the mask. He was at his best imo his first couple of years in WCW. The matches he had with Malenko when he first came in were amazing. He brings in tons of money for The WWE with all the masks they sell.
"He comes MMA. And as soon as there is a problem, I can see him going back to that"
There is literally nothing to suggest that he would do that.
"Something different then what has been obvious when the "rumored" card came out"
I'm beginning to understand why you like TNA so much - why throw out a good wrestling card featuring a mix of veteran talent and hot, over up-and-comers because it's "obvious"? Oh, right, Crash TV.
"WWE's major problem is shoving titles on people who have not been around a long time. I remember when it took people a long time to get even the world title. Now, its flavor of the month booking. Someone is hot or sorta hot right now, lets put the belt on them and see if it maybe works out"
And yet when they put the belt on Miz, a guy who's been around five years and who'se made his way up through the ranks via the secondary titles, you still complained.
Del Rio potentially winning the world title after winning the Royal Rumble isn't a push out of nowhere. He's been consistently positioned as an upper-card guy since his arrival. He beat Rey Mysterio, the world champion earlier that year, clean in his debut match. He competed in a TLC match for the WHC last month. And he won a 40-man match fair and square to go to WrestleMania. A push out of nowhere would be him winning the belt unannounced one Friday night, a la Jack Swagger.
And even then, this "shove titles on people" approach has a pretty good track record. Swagger notwithstanding, this youth drive has resulted in Sheamus, Miz and CM Punk becoming established main eventers, and Del Rio, Dolph Ziggler, Wade Barrett and John Morrison bubbling away as the next guys to make that step. Given a choice between keeping the belt on established names (2007) and trying to push new people (2010-11), I know which one I find more entertaining and rewarding as a viewer.
Originally posted by Amos CochranDel Rio potentially winning the world title after winning the Royal Rumble isn't a push out of nowhere. He's been consistently positioned as an upper-card guy since his arrival. He beat Rey Mysterio, the world champion earlier that year, clean in his debut match. He competed in a TLC match for the WHC last month. And he won a 40-man match fair and square to go to WrestleMania. A push out of nowhere would be him winning the belt unannounced one Friday night, a la Jack Swagger.
My main thought here is that given how fickle and touchy WWE can be regarding main eventers (Carlito wins US title in debut, does not wrestle at WM five months later), they showed uncharacteristically high faith in Del Rio in giving him the Rumble. This isn't putting a world title on Sheamus without a pinfall in a PPV no one watched. This actually surpasses that. I like it. I'm just surprised, is all.
(edited by Mr Shh on 31.1.11 1009) You askew my mirror. I askew yours.
Originally posted by JustinShapiroThat one unforgettable spot notwithstanding, Morrison got kind of screwed for someone who'd had some quality momentum going. He and Kofi should've switched places.
That was my number two complaint about the Rumble this year; the sheer numbers with 40 men led to a total lack of drama and build-up for the important eliminations. While it was cool and served a storyline purpose, Punk and Nexus unceremoniously dumping Bryan and Morrison was a deflater. You could feel the air sucked out of the crowd. And same thing when Punk was just up and tossed near the end. Those elims hurt more than helped, and it was because they got so rushed thanks to the overpopulation of the match. And then, of course, there was the dreadful Cena segment, featuring Superman slaying The Legion of Doom (no, not Hawk & Animal) and a midget beating the piss out of a Hart student.
But the winner to me was that crowd. As soon as that Orton/Cena staredown nonsense was beginning to start, I was praying for the crowd to just keep quiet and not do anything. Audibly just begging the crowd to not do anything. They followed suit. That had to have been one of the best crowds in a long, long time; not just for that but for their general levels of heat for just about everything.
Case in point, the Rumble. My absolute favorite part ends up being Booker's return and it was all made by the crowd going absolutely bonkers and Booker playing up to it. It was fantastic. After that though was the Punk/Bryan/Regal sequence we got to have, with the stiff working and just sick rapid-fire Euro uppercuts. In fact a lot of the Rumble was just great, barring the clear "this is the Nexus" and "quick everyone rush to the end-game!" segments.
So yeah, the Rumble was basically a bunch of spots and pops strung together. But that's exactly what a Rumble is; you're not really going to get some technical showcase. I would've felt fine paying for it and while not the best, the Rumble was pretty good.
Caveat being, I only saw the Rumble and didn't see anything else. If I would've seen that Women's debacle my TV might've eaten a shoe.
Michigan against the SEC: 20-6-1 (7-4 in bowl games)
This was one of the most well booked Rumbles I can remember. With the exception of Tyson Kidd nobody looked bad. Everybody who should have gotten some attention did. The Nexus section was fun,I was hoping Orton would have been the one to come out instead of Cena, but that's only a minor complaint.
The title matches were both IMO were good. Edge/Ziggler was especially impressive, and with a couple more showings like that Ziggler will be a huge player.
The Nexus involvement with Orton could be explained easily by a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. Nexus helped Miz out, and later in the Rumble Miz made sure Cena (Nexus enemy #1) didn't win the Rumble.
Overall I thought it was a good show and gave us an outline of the Wrestlemania card. Some have said it's an underwhelming line up, but it reminds me of Wrestlemania 13. The WWE is an rebuilding phase, and this Wrestlemania will reflect that.
Originally posted by Above Average 1Some have said it's an underwhelming line up, but it reminds me of Wrestlemania 13. The WWE is an rebuilding phase, and this Wrestlemania will reflect that.
Which was one of the worst Wrestlemanias ever. It was only saved by one of the - if not THE - greatest Wrestlemania matches of all time: Bret Hart vs. Stone Cold. The rest of the card looked bad on paper and on TV. Even the main event sucked.
As far as this years Rumble is concerned: The John Morrison spot was simply amazing! So many things could have gone wrong, but so many didn't. It ended up perfect and will go down in history as one the great moments in Royal Rumble history.
WWE.com: Anything to that stare between you and Big Show?
DIESEL: A lot of history there, either together or on the opposite side of the ring. I’ve probably had 200 matches with Big Show in my life. He’s still probably the most impressive physical specimen I’ve been in the ring with – by far the strongest, still the measuring stick. I’d like to give him another run for his money.
"You’ve got the crazy eyes." - RAW GM Laptop, 9/27/10
Originally posted by Big BadNot enough is being made of that ridiculous John Morrison spot. That was one of the great moments in Rumble history.
THANK YOU! That was awesome and Morrison deserved to be in there a lot longer. The crowd loves the guy.
First half of the Rumble was excellent, but then SUPERCENA had to ruin it all. Would it have killed them to at least have Khali stick around to help instead of Cena beating everyone??? The Hornswaggle stuff is everything wrong with WWE right now. They put cheap laughs over drama.
But back to the first half. The Punk, Bryan, Regal portion was sick. Just great stuff. Punk was on fire and the Nexus guys just continuing to come in made him look unbeatable. But again, good drama ruined by SUPERCENA and the midget.
LOOOOOOL @ the stunning silence for the epic Cena/Orton dream showdown. I think that's literally the first time that spot hasn't gotten over in a Royal Rumble. Yikes. Any thoughts of ditching Miz and Punk as their WM opponents had to go out the window in the span of a few punches.
I also thought that the Punk/Cena showdown was a little underwhelming as well. It wasn't dead silence, but the roof didn't come off when they started trading punches either.
Originally posted by Spiraling_ShapeThe Diva booking was all kinds of confusing tonight. Why did Kelly Kelly come out (not Kaitlyn?) to attack Vicki? Why does EVE get to be the new champ and get in the title match (not Beth? not Melina?)
Because while Kaitlyn hates Vickie, she likes Dolph, so it would make no sense for her to interfere against Dolph. Whereas Kelly hates Vickie from back when Vickie was teaming up with LayCool and they started the whole Smelly Kelly angle.
Eve gets to be in the title match because she pinned Melina in a tag match back when Melina was the #1 contender. Beth doesn't get in because it was the Raw GM who made it a four way and Beth is a Smackdown diva. They needed a face to balance out the dynamic and the only other face divas on Raw are Gail Kim, who's to busy banging Daniel Bryan to wrestle and Tamina who's too busy banging Santino to wrestle. (That doesn't explain why Eve won the title, of course. Maybe she's about to appear in Maxim or something.)
Originally posted by InVerse(That doesn't explain why Eve won the title, of course. Maybe she's about to appear in Maxim or something.)
Amos Cochran mentioned it earlier. It probably means Kong will squishy-squash her into oblivion, which keeps contenders like Natalya and Beth strong for future matchups.
The Morrison spot was so sweet, but I wish it could have been saved for a final-four moment. It ended up meaning nothing in the long run.
I am, at best, a casual viewer now, so someday someone's going to have to explain to me why everybody here is ga-ga for Del Rio. I know his background, but based solely on his WWE work: What is the big deal?
(edited by SchippeWreck on 31.1.11 1434) "It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
The obvious solution here, if Orton is unable to compete, is to use someone who has experience defending the World Heavyweight Championship despite never having held a title, someone who has history with Edge and, therefore indirectly, with Christian.