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The W - Hockey - Round 2 discussion (Page 3)
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Loosie
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Since: 2.1.02
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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.18
Now I want Boston to win so we can have an epic Montreal/Boston confernce finals.



Loosie.
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.59
Congratulations to the Habs who called in five games. You can't spot a team 4 goals and expect to win as well as some of your players go half ass in through the entire game coughGonchercough. A complete embarrassment for Penquin fans.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Uh oh, riot.

    I didn't think Montreal could win 4 times by playing in a shell and hoping to counterpunch but in the last 2 games they were on the aggressive and Pens couldn't match their intensity. Congratulations to all the Montreal players who read this board.


Penguins really forgot to show up tonight. It was pretty sad.

Well, at least there's no playoffs to worry about now in either sport for me.



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Kevintripod
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Since: 11.5.03
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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.79
So maybe now a lot of people owe Ovechkin and the Capitals an apology?

Or should Crosby and the Pens be called choking dogs too?



JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
No and let me tell you why!
Well, maybe a little.
But Pens didn't blow a 3-1 lead, Pens weren't the #1 seed, Pens already have a Cup instead of a history of similar playoff blunders.
Psycho Penguin
Liverwurst








Since: 24.6.07
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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    So maybe now a lot of people owe Ovechkin and the Capitals an apology?

    Or should Crosby and the Pens be called choking dogs too?


Well that didn't take long. At least Justin set you straight.

PS - The Penguins did this to the Capitals last year. The Capitals still don't get an apology.



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El Nastio
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Since: 14.1.02
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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
The Caps have reached the same level as the Colts pre-Superbowl win (or perhaps the new San Jose Sharks?). Meanwhile the Pens simply just got facerolled by a team who thinks it's got a date with destiny.

Over/Under on property damage in Montreal tonight?

A great series, but I'm biased. As expected, y'all can guess between the Habs winning and finding out I'm a dad I'm on Cloud 7 right now.....or should it be Cloud 25? A man can dream.

Interesting tidbit; From the AP; "Montreal, about the last team anyone would have picked to beat the top-seeded Capitals, much less the reigning NHL champion Penguins, accomplished what no team has done since the current playoffs format was adopted in 1994. And that's beat the Presidents' Trophy winner and Stanley Cup champion in successive rounds as an eighth-seeded team".



(edited by El Nastio on 12.5.10 2312)


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hayden
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Since: 11.1.05

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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
I don't think the Penguins choked. While the Habs were outshot in nearly every game, they still played very solid defense, neutralized the Pens' big guns, blocked a shitload of shots, got great performances from Gill, Subban, Moen, and Cammalleri, among others, and capitalized excellently on the offensive chances they did get. Spacek played solidly the last two games of the series, and Halak played awesomely as usual.

I love the retribution for Bob Gainey, who a ton of people shit on in the off-season for bringing in "little guys" who would supposedly crumble due to the increased physicality come playoff time, if they made it at all.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
The Penguins did play terrible tonight, but winning a championship gets you at least one year of 'you're not a choker' freedom, especially since they at least got to round 2 (a fair amount of winners don't even get that far the next year I think)



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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.59
The real irony to this is going to be when Montreal gets swept in the next series or if they make to the Cup. Something tells me that is going to happen. Also, the series was tied 2-2 and the rest of the games were decided by a goal or two. Its not as bad as 3-1 where all the Caps needed was an early goal or two to shut them down. The Pens didn't choke as much as they gave up which is worse.

Crosby started the night off like a dumb ass and it continued until late in the second period when the Pens made it 4-2. Once the Pens didn't get the power play goal they needed in the beginning of the third, the game was over. I said before I'd take a hot goalie then superstars. The real problem for the Pens is going to be the question in the off season with Fluery, the defense and the lines. Its going to be a long summer as well as Fall/Winter since like the NBA the regular season is almost meaningless as long as you can get into the playoffs. Seeding as Montreal is proving means nothing. I just hope the Bruins take out the Flyers, I am already sick of the shit talking from my Philly friends who think that the Pens being out is as good as winning the Cup.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Crosby started the night off like a dumb ass


I don't care for that call at all in the first ten seconds of game 7 considering the condoned murder that's willfully ignored. It's not even a tiny excuse for the meltdown that followed for the next 30 minutes but it sucks that we lost our composure like that when the biggest advantage of playing game 7 at home is the huge push you get in the first 10 minutes when the other team has to weather the storm.



    The real problem for the Pens is going to be the question in the off season with Fluery, the defense and the lines.


Losing to the 8th seed in game 7 at home isn't good, but I think losing in the 2nd round is a small consolation for this team. They've had two straight years with short offseasons plus the Olympics so it'll be beneficial to them to get off the treadmill early and recharge. Along with the physical and mental fatigue I think the Cup quenched a lot of guys' hunger that was there last year based on how close they came and the motivation of the Hossa subplot.

This team needs to shuffle out some of the peripheral guys for the unsatiated, and probably Gonchar too unless he wants to do a 1-year deal (unlikely). Their biggest improvement for next season is going to be internally based on recharged batteries and guys being more focused (Fleury and Malkin) and hopefully developing (Letang and Goligoski). And, ideally, a more creative strategy against trapping teams, since a less talented team would be crazy not to play copycat in a series next year. It would be nice if Bylsma and Therrien could alternate years as coach since after responding well to being unharnassed last year the team would now do well with a sterner approach and more of a tightening up.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 13.5.10 0938)
JayJayDean
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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.23
Here is a stat that I found interesting, and at least somewhat relevant because in the regular season they quit playing 5-on-5 after regulation, whereas in the playoffs they keep playing 5-on-5 until it's over.

The Canadiens finished the regular season with 24 regulation wins in 82 games. That's tied for 26th out of 30 teams, with Florida and only Toronto (21), the Islanders (20), and Edmonton (18).

Now, they have won 8 out of 14 in 5-on-5 and are in the Conference finals.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
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Psycho Penguin
Liverwurst








Since: 24.6.07
From: Greenacres FL

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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
    Originally posted by lotjx
    The real irony to this is going to be when Montreal gets swept in the next series or if they make to the Cup. Something tells me that is going to happen. Also, the series was tied 2-2 and the rest of the games were decided by a goal or two. Its not as bad as 3-1 where all the Caps needed was an early goal or two to shut them down. The Pens didn't choke as much as they gave up which is worse.

    Crosby started the night off like a dumb ass and it continued until late in the second period when the Pens made it 4-2. Once the Pens didn't get the power play goal they needed in the beginning of the third, the game was over. I said before I'd take a hot goalie then superstars. The real problem for the Pens is going to be the question in the off season with Fluery, the defense and the lines. Its going to be a long summer as well as Fall/Winter since like the NBA the regular season is almost meaningless as long as you can get into the playoffs. Seeding as Montreal is proving means nothing. I just hope the Bruins take out the Flyers, I am already sick of the shit talking from my Philly friends who think that the Pens being out is as good as winning the Cup.


1) I don't know where a 5-2 final is a 'goal or two' difference, but it's certainly not true here.

2) The regular season does matter somewhat. Sure, the Caps played a brilliant regular season but failed, but that's because they're the Caps. The Penguins fucked around all regular season and it bit them in the ass now. Don't forget the 95 Devils did not make the playoffs the following year after losing in the regular season finale to a 18 win Ottawa team.

3) Seeding does tend to matter at times, it's very unlikely for two teams seeded below 4 to make it to the Cup finals. One will on occasion, but both making it is very unlikely. So there's a certain benefit to being seeded higher.

4) Some Penguins fans (like me, admittedly) thought the Penguins had the Cup won when all the higher seeds in the East lost. Philly fans would be wise to worry about Montreal if they escape game 7.'

5) There are advantages to having a hot goalie, but having superstars and a decent goalie can win you the Cup too. The last two Cups proved that anyways.

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 13.5.10 1303)


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tarnish
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Since: 13.2.02
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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.59
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Crosby started the night off like a dumb ass


    I don't care for that call at all in the first ten seconds of game 7 considering the condoned murder that's willfully ignored.


Sidney knows so much better than that. It was clear what he was trying to do: go out and be aggressive and show he's there to lead the team in every way. But the hit was a touch late and a touch from behind and it's going to be called every time as the opposing player went face-first into the boards. If you're going to make a splash with physicality early it has to be up in someone's face. If Crosby had taken a shot at Gill straight up he could have been dumped on his ass and the crowd still would have gone nuts.



    It's not even a tiny excuse for the meltdown that followed for the next 30 minutes but it sucks that we lost our composure like that when the biggest advantage of playing game 7 at home is the huge push you get in the first 10 minutes when the other team has to weather the storm.



The funniest part to me was Montreal completely losing focus in the second half of the first period because Pittsburgh had so completely gone to shit and the Habs didn't know what to do with themselves.



    This team needs to shuffle out some of the peripheral guys for the unsatiated, and probably Gonchar too unless he wants to do a 1-year deal (unlikely).



You want Gonchar back? I was going to say something after game 6 but didn't want to jinx it for the Habs: I think Pittsburgh has to ask themselves whether what Gonchar brings in terms of offense makes up for the fact that he was a complete defensive liability in the final two games. Maybe we'll find out he was hurt, but it certainly looked several times like he was trying to play playoff hockey while sitting on the couch with his feet up on the coffee table and his head firmly wedged in his ass.



    And, ideally, a more creative strategy against trapping teams, since a less talented team would be crazy not to play copycat in a series next year.



You really think the Pens were "beaten by the trap"? I didn't see Montreal trapping any more than Pittsburgh did; they both ran it late when they were up. Montreal beat Pittsburgh with team play, speed, and straight-up opportunistic play. Pittsburgh didn't have an answer for the energy and the teamwork they were up against. I do think your comments about the Pens being tired definitely bear some weight, though.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
The Penguins were clearly overconfident and got outplayed by a more motivated and cohesive team last night. At least there's no big conspiracy or bad penalty to worry about.. yes, the first penalty sucked and probably set the tone for the game, but it WAS a penalty.

I did find it funny too that Montreal was completely lost for a bit there , I really felt Pittsburgh was going to wake up at some point and make it a game when it was 2-0 after 1. and they did. Of course, it was 4-0 at that point.



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Since: 2.1.02
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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.22

Last night helped ease the pain of Caps fan just a little bit.



Mark Coale
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ISSUE FOUR - OCTOBER 2009
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.89
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    I really felt Pittsburgh was going to wake up at some point and make it a game when it was 2-0 after 1. and they did. Of course, it was 4-0 at that point.
The Penguins were no doubt buoyed by Fleury being pulled for Jean Claude Van Damme.



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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.53
    Originally posted by tarnish
    But the hit was a touch late and a touch from behind and it's going to be called every time as the opposing player went face-first into the boards.


I thought Gorges turned into it to buy an artificial boarding, but I haven't seen it since it happened and it's ultimately irrelevant.



    You want Gonchar back? ... I think Pittsburgh has to ask themselves whether what Gonchar brings in terms of offense makes up for the fact that he was a complete defensive liability in the final two games.


He was really bad for sure vs. Montreal and was hot-and-cold in the Ottawa series too. What I meant was that we'd be better off letting him move on, unless his play hurt his value enough that he could be had at a relative bargain.

Gonch really manned up as a legit two-way #1 defenseman for the 2008 run, and in 2009 he was injured and heroically played through injuries. This year he regressed back to the timid Gonchar pre-Therrien, but for value I wouldn't mind another year of a declining Gonchar at the right price and term versus giving a ton of immediate responsibility to talented but erratic Letang and Goligoski. But it's incredibly unlikely, since talented defensemen at any age and career trajectory have been consistently overpaid in free agency post-lockout, and his play at the end makes it a lot easier to say thanks bye.




    You really think the Pens were "beaten by the trap"? I didn't see Montreal trapping any more than Pittsburgh did; they both ran it late when they were up. Montreal beat Pittsburgh with team play, speed, and straight-up opportunistic play. Pittsburgh didn't have an answer for the energy and the teamwork they were up against. I do think your comments about the Pens being tired definitely bear some weight, though.



By trap I more meant any defensive gimmick, because Pittsburgh was 0-6 against New Jersey too, and against both strategies (NZT and Montreal's five guys around the goalie) they played right into their hands and didn't/wouldn't adjust. I think they were beaten by Martin's system in games 2 and 4. But by 6 and 7 the Canadiens had a bunch of confidence from dictating the way the series was going and at that point Pittsburgh had no answer for Montreal's energy and will, since they were galvanized and kept getting better and more aggressive while Pittsburgh got more worn out and frustrated. I don't think Halak stole games to the extent he did in the Washington series so much as the Canadiens' whole team game came together.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 13.5.10 1730)
El Nastio
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Since: 14.1.02
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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.56
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    I thought Gorges turned into it to buy an artificial boarding, but I haven't seen it since it happened and it's ultimately irrelevant.


Considering that Crosby...."embellished" a "hold" later on in the game which resulted in Hal Gill getting a penalty and there was a couple of other times he could have been penalized with diving I don't have an issue with the penalty. Oh, and this also isn't counting Gonchar's FLAGRANT hit from behind that wasn't called.


    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    He was really bad for sure vs. Montreal and was hot-and-cold in the Ottawa series too. What I meant was that we'd be better off letting him move on, unless his play hurt his value enough that he could be had at a relative bargain.


I see your point, but I dunno. Do you really want him back there after that one goal? He made ZERO lateral movement or cause any resistance for that goal. Unless he's hurt there's no excuse for that.


    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    By trap I more meant any defensive gimmick, because Pittsburgh was 0-6 against New Jersey too, and against both strategies (NZT and Montreal's five guys around the goalie) they played right into their hands and didn't/wouldn't adjust. I think they were beaten by Martin's system in games 2 and 4. But by 6 and 7 the Canadiens had a bunch of confidence from dictating the way the series was going and at that point Pittsburgh had no answer for Montreal's energy and will, since they were galvanized and kept getting better and more aggressive while Pittsburgh got more worn out and frustrated. I don't think Halak stole games to the extent he did in the Washington series so much as the Canadiens' whole team game came together.


This sums up the series perfectly. In interviews you could hear Crosby's frustration because Martin's system was;

- Disciplined play.
- Trust your goalie.
- Try to block every shot that happens.
- Make your shots count.

I think Crosby said something like "I've never seen a team win like this" in referring to just letting another team toss the rubber and he was soooo frustrated. But I'd say after Game 5 things turned the corner. Yeah, the Habs lost. But after being down 3-1 against the Caps.... loosing 2-1 do go down 3-2 in the series wasn't a big deal. And then after Game 6....the Penguins had no chance. None. And it showed the first half of the second period. I think tarnish is right; the Habs lost their focus because maybe they weren't expecting the Penguins to fold like that. But HUGE props to the Habs for not folding themselves after the two Penguins goals.

The interesting thing? I think this system works well, but a team which could cause it problems is a puck-possession type team like Detroit.

Looks like that won't be a problem now.

So now we have a team that truly thinks they are on the path to Destiny. If you're the Bruins you have to not be looking forward to this. The Flyers, if they pull off the 3-0 comeback, will have a lot of confidence. Should be interesting.

Also, something interesting is this is not just vindication for Bob Gainey. Jacques Martin has received a lot of flack over the years. But it looks like he's evolved his coaching style. He's juggling lines, he's shortening the bunch. He's not afraid to go to the hot hand in net. That whole "Jason Spezza's too young for minutes" thing from a few years ago? P.K. shows up. Chewing up all kinds of minutes and stepping up (and that's before injuries).

I'm thrilled. THRILLED. I'm a dad. Conference finals. I'm trying not to get too too excited thinking about the possibility of 25. But I can't help it.



You know, I really don't know what to put here. Close your eyes and thank of something funny!
Psycho Penguin
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#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.04
Not many 8 seeds go on a miracle run to the Cup. Actually, I think Montreal would be the first. I know Anaheim and Edmonton came close this decade but they both lost game 7s.



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