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20.8.14 0402
The W - Pro Wrestling - Rope break?
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hayden
Salami








Since: 11.1.05

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#1 Posted on
I've noticed a few ocassions now where opponents of Kurt Angle have clearly grabbed the ropes when in the Ankle Lock, only to have the ref ignore it and allow Angle to drag them back to the middle of the ring and make them submit. It also happened to Brock Lesnar a few times at SummerSlam '03. Is there any explanation for this, or just an inconsistency? I can't see any reason why the hold wouldn't be broken in these cases.
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Gugs
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Since: 9.7.02
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.74
I think the "rules" state that the hold must either be broken by a count of five, or the person in the ropes must be brought back out of the ropes. That may or may not be true, but that would allow for the loophole of Kurt yanking an opponent out of the ropes.



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Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 2 days
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.60
No, the rules are supposed to be that once the guy touches the ropes or gets a body part outside the boundary of the ropes (like by having a leg under them) then the hold MUST be broken, no ifs, ands, or buts.

But, like it's been pointed out a few times before, it's one of those fuzzy rules that they just kinda pick and choose which way they want to follow it depending on the match. Like how sometimes a wrestler coming into the ring will stop or at least restart the ref's 10 count, and other times the ref just continues counting when one guy comes in just to countout the opponent.

It's also used a lot for moves like the Sharpshooter or the Walls of Jericho.


Tribal Prophet



Jim Smith
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Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2235 days
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.08
    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    No, the rules are supposed to be that once the guy touches the ropes or gets a body part outside the boundary of the ropes (like by having a leg under them) then the hold MUST be broken, no ifs, ands, or buts.

    But, like it's been pointed out a few times before, it's one of those fuzzy rules that they just kinda pick and choose which way they want to follow it depending on the match.


Some rules, though, have just been uniformly changed throughout WWE in recent years. We could argue that the tag rope rule is still stringently in effect and that the performers are too lazy to acknowledge it, but effectively the rule has been overturned. Since it's wrestling, there's no sidebar in Sports Illustrated about how come WWE committee is heatedly debating the rulebook, but from a kayfabe perspective that's what's happens, and the TV shows don't discuss it because it's minutiae.

I think the same thing may have happened to the strict interpretation of rules about outside interference. In the past six or seven years I've noticed that when the heel's cronies run in to attack the face, the ref won't disqualify anybody as long as the face can fend off his attackers. If memory serves, back in the '80s and early '90s a champion could save his title if his henchmen so much as touched the challenger to force a DQ.
JST
Toulouse








Since: 20.1.02
From: Quebec City, CAN

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
Technically that would be correct as the interfering party would have yet to actually impede on his victim's effort. But once he lays a hand on him, the henchmman is automtically seen as "helping" his ally and thus the DQ is announced.

Other times would most likely be a judgement call from the official. When he sees the 22nd batallion run-in, he knows he'll have trouble stopping them all from interfering so he'd rather call the whole thing off.





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Since: 24.2.03
From: Toronto, Canada

Since last post: 13 hours
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.54
Wasn't there a match last week or so (I forget who was in it) where someone was being strangled with the tag ropes and King said "Well, people keep complaining that nobody uses the tag ropes..."
?



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FurryHippie
Frankfurter








Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.29
I don't get either why in matches like a casket match, I've seen the ref scream for a break when a guy reaches the ropes. The announcers don't even mention it but the ref still tries to do the 5-count. What's the point?
Kane Is Ugly
Kishke








Since: 14.7.03
From: Uglyville

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.75
They seem to use the rope break in any match, even no DQ matches. Occasionally you'd hear the announcer say "you cant DQ him, its a no DQ match!" But they seem to forget that fact most of the time. I've also seen a few no DQ tag matches where they had to tag their partner. That makes no sense either. If its no DQ when even bother with tagging?

They should also get rid of the standing 10 count too. Thats some lame boxing rule and unless its a Last Man Standing match, it never comes into effect.

For that matter, here is another rule I dont understand. When they are both outside the ring and one of them breaks the count by going back in the ring then right back, why does the count restart? Shouldn't it keep going? The other guy has been out of the ring the whole time. He shouldnt get a reprieve just because the other guy went back in the ring.





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Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2235 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.08
    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    They seem to use the rope break in any match, even no DQ matches. Occasionally you'd hear the announcer say "you cant DQ him, its a no DQ match!" But they seem to forget that fact most of the time. I've also seen a few no DQ tag matches where they had to tag their partner. That makes no sense either. If its no DQ when even bother with tagging?


What really bugs me is no-DQ situations in which the referee keeps interjecting himself to stop a wrestler from doing something particularly heinous to his opponent. I guess they're trying to portray the ref as a compassionate guy who can't sit idly by and witness such carnage, but the whole point of a no-DQ match is that he can't and shouldn't interfere no matter what. In your average Last Man Standing, Hell in a Cell, or Street Fight match, the referee could sit at ringside reading the paper between pinfall attempts for all that he matters.
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    They should also get rid of the standing 10 count too. Thats some lame boxing rule and unless its a Last Man Standing match, it never comes into effect.

Yeah, but it gets the fans involved in the match by COUNTING~! It also gives the wrestlers a break without going to some weak rest-hold.

    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    For that matter, here is another rule I dont understand. When they are both outside the ring and one of them breaks the count by going back in the ring then right back, why does the count restart? Shouldn't it keep going? The other guy has been out of the ring the whole time. He shouldnt get a reprieve just because the other guy went back in the ring.

Didn't that just happen on Smackdown in an Undertaker match? Both guys were on the outside, somebody grabbed 'Taker's foot while the other guy snuck into the ring to win the match by count out. For some reason, the count didn't start over again.



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sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.09
    Originally posted by geemoney
      Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
      They should also get rid of the standing 10 count too. Thats some lame boxing rule and unless its a Last Man Standing match, it never comes into effect.

    Yeah, but it gets the fans involved in the match by COUNTING~! It also gives the wrestlers a break without going to some weak rest-hold.

      Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
      For that matter, here is another rule I dont understand. When they are both outside the ring and one of them breaks the count by going back in the ring then right back, why does the count restart? Shouldn't it keep going? The other guy has been out of the ring the whole time. He shouldnt get a reprieve just because the other guy went back in the ring.

    Didn't that just happen on Smackdown in an Undertaker match? Both guys were on the outside, somebody grabbed 'Taker's foot while the other guy snuck into the ring to win the match by count out. For some reason, the count didn't start over again.


I actually think both Dupree and Undertaker were out, and it was Undertaker trying to get in to avoid the double count-out. Reigns held his foot, it was a double count-out, and the match was a draw. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I might be.
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
    Originally posted by sentonBOMB
    I actually think both Dupree and Undertaker were out, and it was Undertaker trying to get in to avoid the double count-out. Reigns held his foot, it was a double count-out, and the match was a draw. Correct me if I'm wrong, because I might be.

Yep, you were right. My bad.



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hhhgamewmx7
Bockwurst








Since: 15.6.03
From: Eire

Since last post: 3201 days
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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.75
The rules don't really matter anyways but i am still pissed over Angle winning the belt even though Austin's hand was under the rope.



Jim Smith
Goetta








Since: 17.10.04
From: Bloomington, IL

Since last post: 2235 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.08
    Originally posted by geemoney
      Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
      For that matter, here is another rule I dont understand. When they are both outside the ring and one of them breaks the count by going back in the ring then right back, why does the count restart? Shouldn't it keep going? The other guy has been out of the ring the whole time. He shouldnt get a reprieve just because the other guy went back in the ring.

    Didn't that just happen on Smackdown in an Undertaker match? Both guys were on the outside, somebody grabbed 'Taker's foot while the other guy snuck into the ring to win the match by count out. For some reason, the count didn't start over again.


Someone already corrected you, but the scenario you describe has happened lots of times--both wrestlers are being counted out, one gets in the ring at nine, the other is counted out at ten.

In general, though, the rule seems to be that the ref starts counting to ten as soon as someone leaves the ring, and if anything happens--another wrestler leaves the ring, one of them gets back in the ring, someone harrasses the ref, anything--the ref will start over at one. The internal logic would probably be that it's better to start over for the least little thing than to declare a winner by count-out, an option that's only there to keep a wrestler from being outside of the ring for an absurd length of time.

The only times I can think of in which one wrestler re-enters the ring and the ref doesn't start over at one is when they've booked the match with the finish you've described--the loser is counted out by one second. Well, that and WWE video games, where I've found it to be a reliable strategy.
BigSteve
Pepperoni








Since: 23.7.04
From: Baltimore, MD

Since last post: 2777 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.40
Am I crazy or has there been a situation where a heel would grab the rope looking to cause a break, only to have the ref kick the ropes out of his hand? I believe the point was that for a break to occur, a wrestler must have a "firm" grip on the ropes. Anyone know anything about this? I think I saw it in older matches.

Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

Since last post: 3235 days
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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by BigSteve
    Am I crazy or has there been a situation where a heel would grab the rope looking to cause a break, only to have the ref kick the ropes out of his hand? I believe the point was that for a break to occur, a wrestler must have a "firm" grip on the ropes. Anyone know anything about this? I think I saw it in older matches.




I was just about to mention that. Used to be a common spot when Tommy Young was working Flair matches.



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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
The heel was using the ropes for illegal leverage on an abdominal stretch.
Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Not always. It was like a secondary pop after the face would get Flair in a submission hold (usually his own figure four). Flair would quickly grab the ropes and Tommy would kick them off, requiring Ric to basically hug them when he made it back.



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spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
    Originally posted by Barbwire Mike
    Not always. It was like a secondary pop after the face would get Flair in a submission hold (usually his own figure four). Flair would quickly grab the ropes and Tommy would kick them off, requiring Ric to basically hug them when he made it back.

Also often used if the opponent was attempting a sunset flip, Flair was struggling and eventually got his hands on the ropes and then Tommy Young would boot his hands off, sending Flair down into a near-fall.



Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 2 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.60
    Originally posted by BigSteve
    Am I crazy or has there been a situation where a heel would grab the rope looking to cause a break, only to have the ref kick the ropes out of his hand? I believe the point was that for a break to occur, a wrestler must have a "firm" grip on the ropes. Anyone know anything about this? I think I saw it in older matches.




Yeah, it was just used as the same kind of gimmick that Triple H does with Hebner. He pushes Hebner, so Hebner pushes back, and Triple H looks like he's gonna shit himself in fear. It's a spot for the ref that gets the crowd involved because it's fun to see the ref actually get a chance to have a 'part' in a match.

As far as touching the ropes for a break, it should only need a touch. I remember a match one a tape I rented a long time ago where The Warlord caused a break just by reaching enough to have his fingernail touch the side of the rope.


Tribal Prophet



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