After reading the Nash interview, I can recall another interview he did a couple of years ago. It was right after the NWO was disbanded, and Nash claimed that if the NWO came back in a few years when the business was in a different climate/cycle, that they would be able to more successful than ever. I was wondering if bringing back the NWO at any point in the future would have anything to contribute to the business. I think if booked properly it could be big again. Hogan as a heel was very fitting, I prefer hm that way than as a good guy. I think he could help other talent get over. Before you groan, remember that he let Brock beat the crap out of him on TV and "retire him", also jobbed to Kurt Angle, & The Rock. Not to metion he put himself with Edge being tag champs. As long as Hogan did the right thing, I'd like to see the NWO one more time.
Having the nWo "do the right thing" completely defeats the purpose of the nWo immediately.
They aren't SUPPOSED to lose. They come in, take over, and have their own television show. That was the original premise. They ran WCW, and NOT the other way around.
Any incarnations since then have been played with gingerly and not with ANY of the original flavour. And considering the ages and conditions (Hogan's knees, Nash's whole damn legs, Hall's...well, Hall) I don't want them anywhere NEAR a position where they can come in and take over quite frankly.
The nWo is dead and buried. It has come, and come again, and come some more - but the original impact has never been duplicated. Their last shot was to try returning to their roots in the WWF and take over there but booking restrictions (unwillingness to job new stars) stopped it short.
Please don't take this to be an anti-WCW or anti-Hogan, Hall, and Nash rant - because I think I've done MORE than my share of singing their praises at every turn. But the past is the past is the past.
Let's allow this one to rest.
That said, I WOULD still like to see a properly done nWo DVD so we can fondly recall the good days.
I agree with you but I doubt the WWE would go that route. And if they did they'd screw it up. I don't like the WWE bookers and writers. I feel that the storylines come off as lazy and hoaky. Especially the ones that count.
Jericho/Trish/Christian, the Bradshaw heel turn, and giving the titles to the most deserving veterans on the roster were all good moves.
But for every good move the WWE makes two bad ones.
I'd like to see the NWO2004(Hogan, Nash, Hall) come back with some new members, yeah sure, it might be interesting. But it's a longshot at best.
If also think the NWO DVD needs to be re-done. It should have been a 2 disc set to begin with. And as for the NWO return, I think it picked up steam and was getting over with the fans until Hogan turned face. The NWO cant work without a heel Hogan leading it. I think it deserves one last chance.
I think they had a chance to make it interesting again when the nWo joined the WWF in '02, but they blew it. See, one of the most interesting (and frightening) things about the original nWo was that everyone was a potential future member. If you were a WCW guy, you couldn't trust your friends, tag-team partner or even your girlfriend the same way you used to-- because any of them could be nWo double-agents.
It was the mystery of “Who's already been corrupted?” that was one of the most compelling things about the original nWo. They had an opportunity to do that with the most recent incarnation, but the only new members were X-Pac and The Big Show (been there, done that), Booker T (involuntarily) and Shawn Michaels (OK, that was weird, but it was too little, too late at that point). Had Kevin Nash not gotten injured, the nWo might have continued after that point and Triple H might have even joined, but even that wouldn't have been a surprise, since HBK said he'd deliver him to the group.
But to have someone like Rikishi turn on Scotty 2 Hotty, or Jeff Hardy turn on Matt Hardy (instead of the other way around) would've been stunning. But nooo.
Now, it's too late. Hogan and Nash should both have retired years ago, and Hall's too much of a liability, as much as I like him. Sorry, but no. Do a proper DVD, release a few WCW pay-per-views on DVD, add them as legends in the next SmackDown video game (or at least have the entrance and theme song available to give to a new group of guys), but keep 'em out of the actual WWE itself.
“Chris Benoit, finally, is the Heavyweight Champion of this world!” --Jim Ross, WrestleMania XX
Wiener of the Day Title History:
Won the title on 5/27/02 from Lunacy in a hardcore match; lost the belt the following day to wheresitat42 via offbeat shenanigans
Regained the title on 7/3/02 by pinning SKLOKAZOID in a triple-threat match; lost the belt the next day to NickBockwinkelFan via heel chicanery
Certified RFMC Member-- Ask To See My Credentials!
Hulk Hogan: The microchip implanted in Hogan's hairline, which by now is halfway down his back, reads: "BEST BEFORE GRUNGE ROCK--if found, please return to Reagan administration."
Kevin Nash: Should Big Sexy ever return to active in-ring competition, he will do both of the following: 1) Hand someone a stiff potato (in his first returning match), resulting in a bloody nose or other minor injury for his opponent. 2) Hurt himself even more (in the very same match) executing a simple move like a clothesline, or maybe just by walking across the ring, which will result in a lengthy absence from competition while his body recuperates (like he did his last two or three "comebacks").
Scott Hall: Why bother? Talk about bad news. Quite frankly (my nod to Vince), most wrestlers are afraid to wrestle Hall, because he just might show up for work drunk off his ass (might?) and kill somebody. I think WWE officials have wished Mr. Hall the best of luck in his future endeavours for the last time.
Um...who else? Oh yeah, I seem to recall that X-Pac was a member of the nWo last time around. I could get into this, but, again, why bother? Asteroidboy said it all here: http://wienerboard.com/thread.php/id=18853
But what about Big Show, you say? Despite his two bum wheels, his best chance of making a contribution now is as a monster heel on SD. That's where he's needed, and that's where he's being used constructively, for example, by putting over John Cena at Mania. He may be taking some time off right now anyway, to get some much needed R&R. The last thing he needs is to put that XXXXL black and white T-shirt back on, just he can play toady to a bunch of heat-sucking half-dead has-beens.
Like it or not, Evolution is your nWo now, for however long it lasts before Orton and Batista get their singles pushes, Flair scales back his schedule, and HHH moves in next to the Rock in Holywood.
So sayeth Randy Stilton, the real Stinky Cheese Man!
(I'm told that, in the UK, my name is actually hilarious.)
Rather than talk about how ridiculous this is, I'll just mention that Jeff Jarrett is so smart that he's had the same idea. To bring in Hogan, Hall, and Nash together as a group, I mean, though not as "the NWO" since Vince owns the name. Except none of them want to touch TNA because it's so minor league. Cue somebody saying oh man this could be the big concept TNA needs to become a strong #2, as if they ever could be, and as if it is, causing my brain to, in fact, die.
The nWo worked so well the first time around because it was unique. It showed us concepts we'd never seen before (Hogan turning heel after an incredible decade-long run; Bischoff as the evil owner character a good year before Vince gave it a try on a national basis).
Because the uniqueness is gone, and because of the age (not to mention backstage reputations) of all three founding members, it couldn't happen again.
Although the booking may have been off base, WWE tried to recreate the magic two years ago. The whole concept fell flat on its face. As much as its easy to blame Vince McMahon for that, keep in mind that if the fans wanted this group to be 'over', they would have made them over. Hell, look what happened with Hogan when he turned face. I don't remember too many people crying the blues about the 2002 version of nWo getting a fair chance at the time (other than maybe from Nash).
If they're going to TNA, as Justin suggested... sure, why not? It won't save the company but it might make for some interesting TV, if for no other reason than I'd like to see how Russo would have booked the original nWo (instead of the watered down version in 1999-2000).
Lets not forget the NWO has sucked for the better part of it's last 2.5 yrs as an active angle.
It would be one thing to bring it back, it would be another to make it succeed...something that hasn't happened in a very very long time.
It's not quite like Edge returning and immediately taking over RAW's main event stage w/ guys like Orton, H, or whoever. Edge was fantastic for the last 1.5-2 yrs before his injury so it obviously made sense to bring him back with a bang. It would make very little sense to showcase an angle which helped lead to the demise of WCW (granted, it helped lead to the rise of WCW as well).
Until there is a viable number 2, any type of take-over angle will not work..and IMHO even at that time, it would only work for the number 2.
To me, the NWO was lightning in a bottle. The climate in wrestling was perfect for it. With the advent of Nitro, the brands were as close as ever competitively, and they were actually acknowledging each other on air, which was a HUGE thing. The 'smart' contingent was small enough that the vast majority of wrestling fans could believe an inter-promotion invasion. So with all that, Hall and Nash became massively over as invaders. Maybe it was just a local thing, but all my friends supported WWF in the war because it was what we grew up with.
The next huge step was turning Hogan heel, and thus turning the single stalest character in wrestling at the time into the single freshest. That's nearly impossible to pull right now, because main eventers turn more often than I change my bed sheets. If done in the context of an invasion, Steve Austin's heel turn circa WM17 was probably the last heel turn that ever could have had the impact of Hogan's.
The rest of what made the NWO special could be recreated (having them do things that appear unscripted or spur-of-the-moment, taking over shows, random attacks, evil authority figure, etc). However, it wouldn't have nearly the impact of the original, because the NWO changed the way fans look at those things. I mean, look at us, right now we're gossipping about the possibility of a new ECW-brand "taking over" a WWE weekend show. It would just never have the same effect.
With all that in mind, I'd be surprised if the WWE didn't try to re-create it with the NWO name at least once more. The wrestling industry tends to do that. And also tends to over-estimate name value. Hall and Nash could have called themselves Double Trouble Crap On A Stick and they still would have revolutionized pro wrestling.
Now one old wrestling concept that's timeless enough to work still is the Four Horsemen. Heel stables are forever, and there's no reason not to use the name of he most famous heel stable (aside from NWO) for your top stable. I wonder how open fans would be to a Horsemen group without Flair in the Flair position. It's fair to say the Interweb would flip its collective shit if HHH were made the leader of a New Horsemen. I could see Benoit doing it though successfully.
As much as I'm a huge mark for the n...W...o, the time is gone, and probably should never come again. As previously said, there are no Monday Night Wars anymore, and no the-only-thing-fans-believe-any-more-is-that-WCW-and-WWF-hate-each-other sentiment to capitalize on. Plus, after the WWF blew it in 2002, I don't trust 'em to do it again. Seeing Booker T and HBK in nWo colors just blew it for me. (Hell, Flair naming anybody into the nWo is just all kinds of head-pain-inducing.)
That being said...what's with all the hate for the nWo: Back in Black DVD? I thought it was pretty well done, except for no mention of the Wolfpac split, Fingerpoke of Doom and red/black/white era of '99, nor black/silver nWo 2000. (Besides, it was the last DVD to still say "WWF" in the content, and w/ the little lower-left-hand-corner bug, even though the case said "WWE.")
So how would you guys put together a new nWo DVD from WWE?
Star wipe, and...we're out. Thrillin' ain't easy.
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Originally posted by viceroyNow one old wrestling concept that's timeless enough to work still is the Four Horsemen. Heel stables are forever, and there's no reason not to use the name of he most famous heel stable (aside from NWO) for your top stable. I wonder how open fans would be to a Horsemen group without Flair in the Flair position. It's fair to say the Interweb would flip its collective shit if HHH were made the leader of a New Horsemen. I could see Benoit doing it though successfully.
I agreed with you threw the whole nWo thing. But I have to disagree about the 4 Horsemen. Just like the nWo it's time has come and gone. WWE should not try to reuse it. Even if Flair was the leader, you know WWE would not do it right. Yes, heel stables are forever. Just not that one.
BTW, I do wish their were more stables in wrestling. nWo, 4H, DX, NOD, these groups were great. But the problem these days is WWE and even TNA won't let the stables stay together long enough anymore. Within a few months, sometimes weeks, the stable has turned on each other or kicked some one out or whatever. I miss the days of stables together for LONG periods of time. But I guess in an era of pro wrestling when even tag teams cannot stay together anymore, I should not hold my breathe for the stables.
(edited by XPacArmy on 29.3.04 0626) It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
Agreed. And the funny thing is, the answer is right there in front of them yet they can't see the forest for the trees. What's the one stable that's remained together over the (relatively) long term? Evolution. Result? A new top star in Orton and a way more legitimate Batista than at least I expected two years ago when he was guarding Rev. D-Von's money box. The name value of one guy can make players out of the others.
I think the problem is that you can't do too much of this with a limited roster. If you put together two or three legitimate stables on each show you really limit your matchmaking possibilities.
As for the NWO...noooooooooooooooooo! Just think back to each time the group was disbanded and remember how stale it was at any one of those points. It's not just a name like Four Horsemen, which could conceivably be dragged out and given to a new name. The NWO was a concept played by the right guys at the right time; like someone else already said it truly was lightning in a bottle. The effect today wouldn't be a fraction of what it was the first time through, so what's the point? Let it go.
Originally posted by BigVitoMarkA new top star in Orton
Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let's not get too excited here. Let's see what Orton can do outside of a feud w/ Foley (who is basically carrying this feud) before we go annointing him a "new top star."
(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 30.3.04 1403)
I was just about to say that in the Raw thread...seriously, this guy hasn't done ANYTHING noteworthy outside of the Wrestlemania XX match which was carried by Rock and Flair. Randy is just soooooo BORING inside the ring and out and I'm not buying the "he's a big star" argument just because Flair and Foley can get residual heat onto him...I say ditch his mega-push and put the IC Title on BENJAMIN!.
World Champion by this time next year
Jumping On The Shelton Benjamin Rulez Bandwagon Before All the Smart Marks Do
Originally posted by BigVitoMarkAgreed. What's the one stable that's remained together over the (relatively) long term? Evolution. Result? A new top star in Orton and a way more legitimate Batista than at least I expected two years ago when he was guarding Rev. D-Von's money box.
Dude, Batista was an OVW hoss. He has a good look and maybe you won't confuse him with Juventud or anything, but it looks like his moves HURT. He would have made it anyway, but yes, Evolution helped him. Ditto Orton, though he acts like a leader more than a follower -- maybe I would have had him start a mid-card group and work his way into mains from there. But hey, what's done is done.
The nWo is dead and someone should dig up its corpse and stab it in the face and butt and stomach until it's dead even by dead standards. Unless you've got that Way Back Machine in your living room, the nWo will never work again. I bet a substantial part of the current audience has only seen the nWo in its last, lamest form.
The answer is yes. You should feel bad for anyone in any shitty situation. Even if they brought it upon themselves, they're still a human being and anyone who doesn't feel bad for a human being who's suffering is an asshole.