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The W - Basketball - Ray Allen to sign with the Heat
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CHAPLOW
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Since: 14.5.04
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.32
Ray Allen joining Miami Heat (ESPN)

Ray Allen spurns Celtics, picks Heat (Boston Herald)

Wow; Ray Allen taking a smaller salary in exchange for championships.

I'm personally not looking forward to my Miami Heat being further solidified as the league villains but what can ya do.




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odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00

The NBA continues to ruin Bill Simmons' holiday weekend.

and from @SIPabloTorre

The Herald better be going with JUDAS SHUTTLESWORTH.



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It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.78
    Originally posted by CHAPLOW
    Wow; Ray Allen taking a smaller salary in exchange for championships.


“The one thing that bothers me the most is guys taking big pay cuts for a year to go down there and try to win a championship. There’s a lot of guys who like to ride the coattails of the best, and they’ll take a pay cut just to have an opportunity to win that ring.”
-Larry Bird to ESPN earlier this week

I think that says it all.

(edited by It's False on 7.7.12 1131)


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TheBucsFan
TheChiefsFan








Since: 2.1.02

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.61
    Originally posted by It's False
      Originally posted by CHAPLOW
      Wow; Ray Allen taking a smaller salary in exchange for championships.


    “The one thing that bothers me the most is guys taking big pay cuts for a year to go down there and try to win a championship. There’s a lot of guys who like to ride the coattails of the best, and they’ll take a pay cut just to have an opportunity to win that ring.”
    -Larry Bird to ESPN earlier this week

    I think that says it all.

    (edited by It's False on 7.7.12 1131)


Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with Bird on this one. Ray Allen is leaving a team that just went toe-to-toe with the Heat and lost in a seven-game conference finals series. Sure, the Celtics' title window looks to at best have just two or three more years left in this configuration, but Allen is about to be 37 years old, it's not like he's going to be around much beyond that anyway.

There's a difference between going somewhere hoping to have a better opportunity to earn a title, and going somewhere hoping to have a better chance of riding someone else to a title. Allen didn't leave a hopeless situation, he just saw one that was likely to be easier. He's free to do that, of course, but I don't think it's noble or sporting or anything like that.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
Devil's advocate counterpoint: Ray Allen is foregoing money and ego, sacrificing both to earn a championship.

- StingArmy
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    Devil's advocate counterpoint: Ray Allen is foregoing money and ego, sacrificing both to earn a championship.


And the point has been raised today that Allen and Rajon Rondo were not getting along anymore. And it's not like the Heat don't have a need and Ray is going down there to be the 11th man. He is actually a perfect fit for Miami, IMO.



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Since: 5.9.08

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
The DLC gets their X-Poc. Honestly, I'd rather have a guy who is willing to take a pay cut and wants to win a championship than taking a max deal and half assing it in year three or four of a five or six year deal. Also, everyone else including the Nets are getting better, so why can't the Heat.



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TheBucsFan
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Since: 2.1.02

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.61
    Originally posted by StingArmy
    Devil's advocate counterpoint: Ray Allen is foregoing money and ego, sacrificing both to earn a championship.

    - StingArmy


Right, but the point is, he was already in a situation where a title was feasible. It's not like he's turning down a ton of money from the Raptors to go to Miami, he's leaving a team that was just one win from the Finals this past season.

I mean, if he retired from playing to join the Heat as a trainer or assistant coach so he could get a ring, would that be admirable? That's a bit of an exaggeration of what he's actually doing, but the point remains, winning a title with the Heat next season would mean far, far less than it would have to win a title with the Celtics.

And I don't think he is sacrificing ego. I mean, I think ego is one of the most overblown concepts in sports, because of course ultimately every successful athlete is egotistical. But the way I see it, he wants that ring so bad to add to his legacy or self-worth or whatever else, that he's taking a shortcut in order to get there. He's joining a team that is not really, in my opinion, anymore likely to win the title next year because of his presence, because that team was already going to enter next year with probably the greatest chance of winning the title next year regardless of the presence of Ray Allen.

Regarding this Allen/Rondo rift, I mean, I guess that changes things a little. But I've never heard of this rift before yesterday. That doesn't mean it's not there or that it's not a real issue, but it's awfully convenient that leaks come out about this only after it's announced Allen is joining the best team in the league. It doesn't change my own opinion about this in any meaningful way, at least.

Anyway, ultimately Ray Allen is not likely to be too concerned with what I think of his championship ring, if this move lands him one. Just as a fan, I agree a great deal with what Bird said, and with Jordan when he said something similar after James left Cleveland. To me, it indicates a lesser degree of competitiveness and pride in the athletes making these moves. Bird, Jordan, Magic Johnson, these guys had guts and determination that made them champions. They won because they resolved to win, not because they manufactured a situation via off-the-court moves to give themselves an advantage.

Those teams did of course make trades and sign free agents, so there's that. But I don't think anything happened in Bird and Johnson's era that was akin to James leaving Cleveland to join Wade in Miami. But at the same time, Ray Allen is not Larry Bird, so maybe it's unfair to expect him to have the same competitiveness. I just don't see him making this move as somehow impressive or admirable.

I guess in a nutshell, to any really great player (a category which may not include Ray Allen, to be fair), "better chance of winning a championship" wouldn't really be a factor. If you had asked the Celtics players during this past season's conference finals if they thought they could win a title, I'm sure they all would have said yes. Ergo, if you feel like you have to join a specific group of other guys in order to win a title, you aren't really a great player.

(edited by TheBucsFan on 7.7.12 1918)
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
I don't know if he sold out. The Celtics almost traded him a few times, he lost his spot to Bradley and they signed Terry.

It is the perfect spot for him. The Heat need someone to spread the floor and drain threes and his defense is so that it was getting tough for an older Boston team to cover for him.

I would have liked to see him go somewhere else, but the Clippers did the Clipper thing and signed Jamal Crawford and Boston was sort of fazing him out. I don't see it totally as a coat tail move.
StingArmy
Andouille








Since: 3.5.03
From: Georgia bred, you can tell by my Hawk jersey

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
As others have said, the poor relationship with Rondo, the aborted trade to Memphis, and losing his starting job due to injury could certainly have soured him on Boston. Like TBF I do wonder why I never heard about any of this more than a couple of days ago, but perhaps I just wasn't listening to the right people. I've also read that while KG was recruiting him hardcore, Paul Pierce wasn't exactly giving his best effort. Maybe he's in Rondo's camp? Or maybe Paul Pierce is just a bitch (that's my answer to all Paul Pierce-related questions, btw).
    Originally posted by TheBucsFan
    And I don't think he is sacrificing ego. I mean, I think ego is one of the most overblown concepts in sports, because of course ultimately every successful athlete is egotistical. But the way I see it, he wants that ring so bad to add to his legacy or self-worth or whatever else, that he's taking a shortcut in order to get there. He's joining a team that is not really, in my opinion, anymore likely to win the title next year because of his presence, because that team was already going to enter next year with probably the greatest chance of winning the title next year regardless of the presence of Ray Allen.

You make good points, but I'm of the mind that the most competitive pro athletes in the world not only want to win, they want to be the reason their team wins. That's what I meant by sacrificing ego. By going to play in Miami, LeBron, Bosh, Allen, and whoever else is knowingly taking a hit to their stats and agreeing to share credit with however many other all-stars and future Hall of Famers are on the roster. I think that's why Jordan and Bird and others have sort of rolled their eyes at this whole Miami Heat experiment. They see it as giving up and taking a shortcut, but others might see it as doing whatever it takes to win, because winning is all that matters, regardless of how you get there.

- StingArmy
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.95
Why are we talking about Ray Allen like he's never won a championship before? I've heard of guys who have never won a championship going somewhere on the cheap to try to get that one (remember the 2003-2004 season when Karl Malone and Gary Payton joined the Lakers in an eventually futile attempt to win a championship? [and The Glove later got one with the Heat in '06]), but I don't really recall someone making that kind of decision in a desperate bid to win his second championship.

I guess what I'm saying is that I buy this Rondo/Allen feud scenario.
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
Well, if it makes anybody feel any better Marcus Camby is leaning towards New York over Miami ... because of money.

It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.78
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    Well, if it makes anybody feel any better Marcus Camby is leaning towards New York over Miami ... because of money.


Yikes!

Source -- New York Knicks acquire Marcus Camby in sign-and-trade deal with Houston Rockets


    The New York Knicks will acquire unrestricted free agent center Marcus Camby in a sign-and-trade with the Houston Rockets, according to a source close to Camby.

    Camby's contract will be for $13.2 million over three years. The Rockets will receive guard Toney Douglas, center Jerome Jordan, forward Josh Harrellson and second-round picks in 2014 and 2015, according to a league source.

    he deal cannot be finalized until July 11.

    Camby appeared to be narrowing his choices down to the Knicks, Miami Heat and Brooklyn Nets. But after he postponed a meeting with the Heat on Saturday because they used their midlevel exception on Ray Allen, the Knicks were in the lead. The Nets had only a conference call with Camby, while the Knicks had a face-to-face meeting with him in Houston on Sunday, which a source close to the situation said was "very positive."

    Camby returns to New York, where he played from 1998 to 2002. He was the starting center on the 1999 team that went to the NBA Finals against the San Antonio Spurs.


Onwards and backwards!




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drjayphd
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Since: 22.4.02
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
    Originally posted by It's False
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Well, if it makes anybody feel any better Marcus Camby is leaning towards New York over Miami ... because of money.


    Yikes!

    Source -- New York Knicks acquire Marcus Camby in sign-and-trade deal with Houston Rockets


      The New York Knicks will acquire unrestricted free agent center Marcus Camby in a sign-and-trade with the Houston Rockets, according to a source close to Camby.

      Camby's contract will be for $13.2 million over three years. The Rockets will receive guard Toney Douglas, center Jerome Jordan, forward Josh Harrellson and second-round picks in 2014 and 2015, according to a league source.

      he deal cannot be finalized until July 11.

      Camby appeared to be narrowing his choices down to the Knicks, Miami Heat and Brooklyn Nets. But after he postponed a meeting with the Heat on Saturday because they used their midlevel exception on Ray Allen, the Knicks were in the lead. The Nets had only a conference call with Camby, while the Knicks had a face-to-face meeting with him in Houston on Sunday, which a source close to the situation said was "very positive."

      Camby returns to New York, where he played from 1998 to 2002. He was the starting center on the 1999 team that went to the NBA Finals against the San Antonio Spurs.


    Onwards and backwards!


Congratulations, Knicks fans! You just got Anthony Davis!

...'s worst-case scenario!

13 years LATER!

Which, as we know, is good enough for at least a top-four seed in the East.





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Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.95
Actually, I like the Camby deal. He does not require the offense to run through him, leaving Melo to handle the scoring, he can give Chandler a breather and lets Amare get out of the punishment of playing the 5 when Chandler is out. Camby is a solid defender for a backup and blocks a bunch of shots.

The Knick perimeter defenders, outside of Shumpert, are mediocre. This lets them cheat a little and be aggressive knowing Camby (when it is not Chandler) is back there to help.

I have no problem with this deal. I thhinks barring injuries, this puts the Knicks in the 4/5 range. That is behind Chicago, Miami, Boston and Brooklyn (wehn, not if, Dwight gets traded there) and on par with Philadephia and Indiana. It is not enough to win a title, but I would not want to play them in the first round.



Life is hilariously cruel.






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Good for the Miami Heat. Since Bosh will probably play the PF position, it can be assumed that Haslem will be come off the bench and be a good role player yet again for Miami.
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