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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW WORKRATE REPORT 7/12/04
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tomk
Goetta








Since: 30.7.02

Since last post: 2625 days
Last activity: 976 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
What Worked

PAS: Batista v. Edge had its awkward parts, but was plenty fun. I was honestly distracted by the new Lynch list, as he has tons of IWE classics. Bob Sweetan v. Rusher, Herodes from 1979, Ray Candy. I am sure this match was better then Ray Candy v. Hara, but the latter match intrigues me more.

TKG: So I'm watching Val Venis vs. Tomko on heat and really digging it a ton, as oddly Venis is as tall as Tomko and the two had a nice two big guys slugfest. Last week I wrote about how I really liked Batista's monster work but wanted to see him in two big guys slugfest kind of match. Wanted to see if he could do it. My complaint about Edge in the past has been that he works like a wrestler a foot shorter than him. Edge is legit tall, but he works like Spike Dudley, underdog who takes a beating and then has lots of big spots he can hit out of nowhere. Edge lately has been stepping up and working a little more like dominant tall guy..maybe it's just the forearms. Opening section of this match left me still unsure of both guys as first section (up untill Batista did the Finlay apron spot) didn't feel as good a Venis vs. Tomko. But then it just really came together. really like the way Batista sells. Liked the crumple sell for the leg lariat, loved the way he took the impaler, was amused by his Adrian Adonis style bump from being dropped accross top rope, and dug his fatigue sell after powerbomb. and has Edge always had a missile drop kick that good?

PAS: Tomko can't execute anything during run-ins, but is actually kind of fine in the ring. Takes a nice couple of in-ring bumps, and jacks Al Green's back elbows in the corner, plus he actually hits his finisher. Not as good as his shockingly great Heat match, but fine stuff.

TKG: Tomko really works like a UPW trained guy. Did he have a match with Hashimoto? the Al Greene back elbows were in the Venis match. The fistdrop was in this one. But essentially he works like UPW guy so offense is not going to be strength.

TKG: People on the board were pimping Rhino's spear today. People on our board are fools. FOOLS. Really dug Conway bumping like freak to get over Rhino's, stuff hell he even made Rhino's spear thing look decent.

PAS: Conway is the first guy in recent memory on a show with Flair to take a high backdrop better then Flair.

PAS: Damn Flair v. Helms was great. This totally makes me want to go to the Southern Pines Event Center to see the NWA title match this sets up. Flair kind of punishes Helms in a very Fuchish way in the beginning, and then makes Helms look really strong, before beating him. Helms looked super in this too, especially the way he took Flair's chop blocks.

TKG: I was expecting this to be run as really mediocre Flair vs. Barry Houston (yeah Helms is alot better than Houston but you know what I mean) style, with Flair just too old to work that match well. Instead this was worked like really great Fuchi vs. Ichikari (yeah Helms is better than that too, but you know). This beats out the Edge vs. Batista match as match of show cause the Edge one took to long to get going.

PAS: Eugene's German Suplexes and crossface looked really good, but there were innumerable problems with this match. Nice blade job though.

TKG: You'd think for Benoit working a , I don't want to hurt you match..they would have started with some matwork where he's working for pinfalls or something, didn't like match. Liked Regal run in.


What Didn't Work

PAS: Man the Diva search stuff was punishing, the first two girls on air presence was terrible, as they both had sort a nervous shout going on. The Korean girl who went second was kind of cute in a "now that I am relaxed, here is $20 to finish me off" kind of way. The Playboy model was the only one who had any poise, plus she was carny enough to cock tease Vince, but this is clearly a way to create new girls for them to pimp to Playboy and take 60% of the money. Hef already has shots of this girls pink, so she clearly isn't going to win.

TKG: Maybe its that I had just watched the absolutely horrible acting in the Evolution locker room, or that I listened to some diva contestant who's delivery was just horrible, or maybe it was the absolute shittyness of Kanes reaction shot huffing and puffing,...but I thought Lita's acting and delivery was really good tonight. As she seemed like she almost was able to turn this into the kind of really fun redneck angle that Dean would write for Sugar Sato. Unfortunately Kane's acting stank and instead of working ugly asshole truck dipatcher, he's working "Pontiff of Perversity". Last week Lawler refered to the no holds barred match as being a "Baby's Daddy' match. It would have ruled if they worked it like a New Jack match with "who dat is? dat's just my baby's daddy" played for whole match instead of "Natural Born Killers". That only works if its a a match between truck dispatcher and a guy who sells airbrushed T-shirts at the fair. For a minute there, Lita made me believe that I was watching that angle.Then Kane got all demonic with his mic work, puffed his cheeks and fucked it up. I don't understand why they're doing the Kane as horror movie evil schtick when it kills the ability of anyone having a meaningful storyline when they work him. Sorry I was reading the "Forward's" celebration of the 100th birthday of I B Singer and just think the WWE fucked up with Goldberg... I mean how easy would it have been just to plagarize a quiet Jew fighting evil demon story. But if his antagonist isn't going to be a quiet Jew from the Falcons, they need to drop the Kane dark magic garbage.

PAS: Goldberg would make a fine Golem as well, but that ship has sailed.

PAS: Christ Jericho and Kane had that 6 month feud over spilt latte's, they can't put together a 7 minute TV match.

TKG: Holy crap did this match suck ass. I mean just ass. neither guy seemed to be on same page. Made me nostalgic for Kane-X-pac series. They do a drop neck across the top rope spot, which they had done in almost every match on the show and it didn't look as good as when Tomko did it.
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Tony Stewart
Pickled pork








Since: 6.6.04

Since last post: 2678 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.50
Jericho fighting for the Jeritron 5000's honor could work as an angle for him. He's fought over spilt coffee, peed in tea and dog poop, so this would really be a step up for him.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
You guys are kidding about Tomko/Venis, right? Right??? That match was awful, and Tomko is awful. He was snapping his head back before Venis even connected on his punches.

And Tomko/Maven from this Raw was even worse.

Why Tomko is on Raw, while Palumbo or A-Train (barring recent injury) aren't, is beyond me.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 13.7.04 0831)


asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1373 days
Last activity: 281 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.06
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    You guys are kidding about Tomko/Venis, right? Right??? That match was awful, and Tomko is awful. He was snapping his head back before Venis even connected on his punches.

    And Tomko/Maven from this Raw was even worse.

    Why Tomko is on Raw, while Palumbo or A-Train (barring recent injury) aren't, is beyond me.

    (edited by Spaceman Spiff on 13.7.04 0831)


Ok, good to see I'm not alone on this. Tomko was so blown up and staggering around at the end of the Heat match, it was all he could do to BOOT Val, much less cover him.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02, 3.12.03

"If you want me to watch the shows, buy tickets when you come to town, buy t-shirts, and pay for a PPV every three days, you bet your ass I'm going to hard to impress. And when you give me stuff that blows and then tell me I don't get a vote on sharing that opinion, I'm going to tell you to go catch an STD." - Hogan's My Dad

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


tomk
Goetta








Since: 30.7.02

Since last post: 2625 days
Last activity: 976 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
I don't think either me or Phil was trying to pimp Tomko, just saying this was better use of him than the run in stuff they'd done before.


Quoting myself "Tomko really works like a UPW trained guy."

The comparison I'm making here is to Nathan Jones, John Heidenreich, and Cena.

You're UPW guys are by and large really good at eating offense, taking stuff. Not good at delivering offense.

Cena luckily isn't as big as other two and developed some really over schtick and over moves.

Heidenreich and Jones didn't. Both of them were really big guys who WWE wanted to use as really big guys with devestating offense. Neither of the two can pull that off. What both do well is take offense, not deliver.

Nate Jones had an amazingly good match with Scott Steiner in WWA, where Steiner was even more immobile and useless than he was during entire WWE run. Steiner has lots of offense...Nate Jones is really big and eats offense well and beacuase of his size he looks impressive eating offense. Jones eats Steiner's offense better than Helmsley. But Nate Jones offense stinks. STINKS STINKS STINKS. He's totally ineffective and clumsy looking when he is working big guy tossing around WWE style underdog. Him vs. Shawn Michaels, Jericho or Edge would not be pretty (him vs. Jeff Jarrett sucked ass). Really mobile guy when it comes to eating offense. Blows stuff when you ask him to do a jumping kick.

Heidenreich works same exact style.

Tomko appeared to work similar as he's good at getting tossed around. But his offense stank. Phil talks about him jacking Al "The DOG" Green's backelbow spot, it's not as good looking as it was when Al Green did it. His fistdrop was big offense move on RAW. Looked better then the big offense that Heidenreich and Jones whipped out but still not as good as anything A-Train does.

Being large and able to eat stuff well....means your better than Test, Nash or Matt Morgan.. But it means your still smoked by big guys who can eat stuff well and know how to work a axe bomber into their offense effectively (Big Show) and completely smoked by Large guys who can sell and have good offense (you're Batistas, Lesnars, Goldbergs, Henrys, A-Trains, etc)

Tonight was more effective use of him than when he was doing run ins. Heidenreich and Jones are also more effective bumping around then doing run ins.

I liked the Heat match not because of Tomko but because it once again showed another side of Venis. Venis is this really great guy who isn't being used by the WWE. Well and I'm used to good guys being misused but the Tomko match surprised me because Venis looked to be about as tall as Tomko. I mean its one thing for the WWE to misuse small workers...but for them to fuck up with tall ones????

Venis controled Tomko outside of the Al Green back elbow thing and worked a good two big guys slugging it out match. Watched it a couple times don't remember Venis throwing any punches only forearms..Tomko's head was flying everywhich way which kind of works for rocked guys selling before and after taking more forearms.


Tony Stewart
Pickled pork








Since: 6.6.04

Since last post: 2678 days
Last activity: 1287 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.50
Why can't Tomko be the WWE version of Ron Studd? A big guy who gets beat by big guys. A guy who matches up with Batista and Henry, but in the end makes them look tougher getting beat by a guy in their own league. I'm begining to think that Tomko doesn't really know how to bump and that's what makes it look better. He seems to fall wrong a lot, which is bad and painful for him but good for realism. Granted a guy this size who jobs to guys his size only has a limited shelf life, but the WWE is stocked up on big guys with tribal tats anyway.

As for Venis, well, the WWE hosed his ass pretty good when they took a pretty successful run as Bicshoff's aide and ended it for really no reason at all. Actually it's the second time they've ruined a pretty good heel run by Venis. He also had his heel stint with Trish as the bad guy in all white stopped short when it seemed as if it was just getting into gear. He'd probably be a guy better off on Smackdown as a midlevel heel working matches with Cena and RVD.


Anti_Guy
Cotechino








Since: 2.2.04
From: United States of America

Since last post: 3641 days
Last activity: 3638 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.50
Tomko is like the RAW version of Smackdown!'s Luther Reigns. Tomko is a problem solver/bodyguard for Trish, and Luther Reigns is the bodyguard/hitman for Angle.

Its been a long time since I've seen a Edgecution (or Impaler as J.R. said [isn't the Impaler what the Unprettier is?], Ross needs to brush up on specific wrestler's specialty maneuvers, I bet Tazz and Cole do a better job with that) from Edge. All he's been doing is spearing people (better left to Rhyno and his gore) and giving Edge-o-matics (which Ross doesn't even know the name of).

Everything seems to be getting worse every day...



...
Thats just sad...
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 50 days
Last activity: 1 day
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
    Originally posted by Anti_Guy
    [isn't the Impaler what the Unprettier is?]


Yes it is. But given that approximately 85% of Christian's offense has been termed the 'Unprettier' by Ross at some stage, it was probably only a matter of time before it spread to the moves of other wrestlers ;)



hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.51
IIRC, the Impaler was the name for the Edgecution/implant DDT when Gangrel did it, and that the Unprettier was nver (at least correctly) called the Impaler.



Idle hands spend time at the genitals, and you know how much God hates that
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3533 days
Last activity: 1953 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.25
I agree with your Tomko assessment. I think he's a pretty good seller for his size but his offense is very shaky... I really notice this week, he's not really that juiced up looking, he's just tall with a decent build. They guy does actually look like a bounty hunter or body guard more then a bodybuilder.

Interesting comment on Edge being a tall guy who wrestles small. I always found Edge kind of a tweener as a performer in the ring. He's not big enough to be an impressive physical big-man... But he's not small enough to be viewed as an underdog fighting an uphill battle with quick offensive moves. I do still like Edge, but his size is really in between those two type of wrestlers. But I think he's doing okay.



smark/net attack wienerville advisory is raised to YELLOW alert - Elevated (JBL is the new WWE champion, good gawd hide under the desk. But Benoit is World Champion allowing some safety in the IWC)- 6/28
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Are you sure about that? I think Helms was on the Raw roster well before Josh took over as commentator on Velocity.
- Spaceman Spiff, The Shining Wizard (2003)
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