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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW was AWESOME! (Page 4)
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dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 56 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#61 Posted on

    Originally posted by The 5th Horseman

      Well, that works both ways. How many times has HHH been beaten cleanly? You can use all the sarcasm you want to, there is no way I am going to buy that he hasn't been booked to appear super strong. He verbally castrated Ric Flair and Flair's response was to help HHH and be his lackey while singing HHH's praises. HHH constantly wins his 1 on 1 matches with RVD, even when RVD had the referee blatantly cheating to help him. He antagonized Kane by calling him a murderer and accusing him of necrophilia and then HHH beat Kane, therefore never getting his comeuppance. They had HHH beat the Undertaker for the #1 contender spot in Undertaker's last match on Raw and then they made the allusion that Brock Lesnar left Raw to avoid having to fight HHH.

      Wow, they sure don't make HHH look dominant.



    Oh god, I really didnt intend my original comments to lead this thread into the usual HHH teritory. All I was trying to say was that after anyone loses to HHH unless they get a 20 minute promo, a title rematch, and their ass kissed by Hunter hiimslef there are certain people who come on here and say "oh my god HHH buried another bright star". Last night 3 of the guys he buried (Booker, RVD, and Jericho) were central to the show. RVD's in ring time might have been short but it looks very much like they're trying to keep him on TV and they even hinted he could be involved in a Steiner angle. But still we're told RVD is buried.

    As for HHH losing clean, he's meant to be the champion. Do you honestly think the regular wrestling fan sees him cheat against D'lo, struggle against Spike and think, God that guys dominant?



    Undisputed Wiener of the day 6.11.02
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 34 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#62 Posted on
Quoth dmr "at least on RAW we see these new guys have a shot at the title every now and again, and when they do they DO NOT lose clean. Granted some of the main event level bookings sucked lately, but storywise it makes sense to have HHH win the belt back of HBK. Just imagine if they have a great fight (and dont forget the last one they had was a MOTY contender in many peoples eyes) over three falls, and THEN RVD or Booker or Y2J or whoever wins the belt of triple H in 2-3 months time. Wouldn't that be better than Rob winning it now of HBK?"

I would agree with this logic, except that it has been this exact same logic for almost 3 years now. From the day of the Jericho/HHH match where Jericho did then didn't win the title, everyone who has defended the WWF/E booking has said "they're building up to something bigger." And yet everytime that the something bigger has involved anyone but Rocky, the something bigger and better never happens. Go back and listen to the heat RVD had near the end of the Invasion. Listen to his pops now. Do you hear a drop-off? So do I. They will never have an RVD as hot as he was at that point, but they wanted to stick with the established main eventers.

The point is that you can only string people along with the promise that THIS time something is going to change for so long before eventually you feel nothing will ever change. That I think is why so many people were disappointed at the Big Show title win, because Lesnar was a change finally at the top, and then when it came time to take the belt off him, you have a lot of guys waiting for their crack, and they recycle Big Show into the main event for the umpteenth time. And now knowing that Nash and UT and Steiner are coming back/in soon, there's really no reason to feel like change is on the horizon any time soon either. As a fan I feel like I've waited and waited for something positive to happen, and it doesn't, and those rare moments they do, it feels like it ends up sliding right back into the same old same old.



Who's always messing up Homestar's plans? The Cheat! The Cheat


Immortality
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 56 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#63 Posted on
Fair point. I guess I'm just hoping that the falling ratings have given them the kick in the ass they need to change things.

I know I'm a big grown up boy now and I should probably know better, but hey I was just trying to be optimistic.

Vince must wish all fans were as gullible as me.



Undisputed Wiener of the day 6.11.02
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 42 days
Last activity: 16 days
#64 Posted on
The problem with watching RAW, and the problem with the WWE in general, is the fact that fans really have no control how the storylines are going to go. Remember how great it was to see Rock and Austin rise from mid-card status to huge stars because the public basically demanded it? I remember a cage match that Rock, Mankind and Shamrock had on a PPV (I think it was Breakdown), and everytime the Rock would get beat down, the crowd would boo like crazy. The roof popped off Copps when he pinned Shamrock. So what did they do the next night? Give him a clean win against the Undertaker to legitamize him. Now in the WWE, if someone starts getting over, what happens? He jobs to someone (HHH, Undertaker, etc...) and he goes to the midcard cause Vince "doesn't want to push anyone too fast" and "wants them to earn his spot".

The most interesting match I've seen in a while was the Booker/Jericho match. If you remember, the crowd for the first 5 minutes wasn't really that into it, but by great working by the two, the crowd got hot for in and actually chanted Booker's name. Then, when the tag title match got going, the crowd was as loud as I've heard a RAW match for in a LONG time. So what happens? Booker and G-dust lose and the crowd, once again, doesn't get what they want. This might be fine if things were going well (builds up Jericho/Christian; more of a chase), but this is a time when fans need to feel that what they are seeing is the beggining of something. Hey, why cheer for losers? Why cheer for a guy (RVD) who will never be seen on the level of HHH, Rock or Austin.

RVD, Booker, Edge etc aren't getting buried per se. It's not like they go out there and lose in 3 minutes to Bastista or something. It's just that they are seen as lovable losers, guys who just quite don't have it or midcarders who don't care. I mean, RVD gets screwed out of a title, and doesn't even go after HBK or HHH. If HE doesn't care about being champ, why should we?

The funny thing is, these guys DO get a lot of airtime, which makes it even dumber that they are pushed like midcarders and comedy acts.

My frustration isn't really over HHH himself, it's what he represents, which is more of the same, nothing will change, just live with it and like it.



By the way, Storm's gimmick includes 1.) telling the audience to shut up, and 2.) occasionally making everyone stand for the Canadian national anthem. You know they don't know what to do with a wrestler when he's making fans stand for a national anthem. It's like waving a white flag and saying, "This guy has no personality -- we give up."

ESPN's Bill Simmons
The King of Keith
Lap cheong








Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

Since last post: 263 days
Last activity: 223 days
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#65 Posted on
Thank God that when the Honky Tonk Man held the IC belt for a year and a half there was no IWC backlash towards him! Honky and HHH have a lot of similarities in their reigns. Both are people that crowds want to see lose the belt badly. Both would lie, cheat, steal, double cross, maim, etc. just to keep that belt. HHH held the belt about a total of 5 months this year. HTM held it for a year and a half. A YEAR AND A HALF! I used to freak out watching wrestling when I was a kid when there was a match between a well known superstar (Macho, Hillbilly Jim, Hacksaw) against HTM b/c he could lose at any time. I get that same excitement with HHH's reigns. That is the mark of a good heel worker...wanting to see him lose!

People have now ventured into saying that HBK is holding back people and taking people's spots. The last post by DirtyMikeSeaver says, and I quote "Remember how great it was to see Rock and Austin rise from mid-card status to huge stars because the public basically demanded it?" I think the fans were pretty happy with his win at Survivor Series. It's sounded to me that HBK is pretty over. HBK has been wrestling full time again around a month. So what? I LOVE HBK! The guy is freaking awesome. Every match he's been in since his return at Summerslam has made me stand up and cheer. Plus, the guy made it seem RVD had him beat until the HHH interference, so I can't see how this is "burying" RVD. So, I refuse to comment any more about the arguement.

Raw was awesome in my eyes. If you liked it, good for you. If you didn't, good for you. I've been watching for 19 years now. I know what I like. Last night's show is what I like. Thank you.



shinstrife
Boudin rouge








Since: 5.10.02

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 2 hours
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#66 Posted on
You know what...I like Raw.

This is a post of VS opinon and others to unite under that we thought it was a good show. It F'n entertained me! Thats hasn't happened on Raw for along while.

Yes,Raw is a show of baby steps. Sure its one step forward,1 half steps back.

Smackdown is the show that was born with the better creators etc,basically Heyman's creation of wrestling goodness.

Now I think things may change if given time...Everything will change with time,weather Raw gets better,worse or Smackdown gets better or worse...things will change and will bitch about Smackdown and enjoy Raw.

Simple as that...I think.



"When will the Hurricane get an Arch Enemy...say the Weather man?"

Shin Strife
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3539 days
Last activity: 1959 days
#67 Posted on
Well I'm a little late in my review but here it goes anyways and I'll try to keep my H bashing about him on one show. I've beem saying that Raw in the last month or so has really seemed to be in an upswing while the opposite is ture for Smackdown. But this show wasnt' that great. It wasn't even as good Raw comparing it to recent Raw. Even though there was a bunch of people I really like in prominent roles nothing really clicked and the fans seemed dead. Which unfortunately it seems to be the norm now in the WWE.

-Bichoff/Morley in the ring hyping the main event, putting a bunch of gimmick stips to try to save interest. Because god knows adding new people to the mix isn't the answer... -BookDust v. STorm/Regal- Another Storm/Regal match that I didn't really click. Odd having Goldust caling himself the weaklink when Booker takes the pinfall losses just as much as Goldie does. Booker did take the lost last week in their title match vs. Team Chris(tain) Oh well it's not like these writers would ever think ahead even for one week.

-Stevie v. Jackie- I don't think this was too bad. I'm happy that Stevie didn't job, which I thought was a certainly. And a few times I thought the pin was in, they did some nice spots. Nice run in by Victoria and Trish after the match.

-Batista v. RVD- Rob's back to mid-card, hope he enjoyed his 2 weeks on top. Maybe in a couple of months he can have another one. RVD plays the third man in the Kane/ Batista feud. Errr. Well this was actually one of the better matches on Raw which is scary.

-D'lo/Nowinski v. Snow/Maven- I like these tough enough guys but this match flopped. I still don't understand D-lo's involvement. This feud seems to hit a snag in the last few weeks. Hope it picks up soon because I was interested in it a few weeks ago.

-HHH v. Jeff- Well atleast the females in the audience believe Jeff had a snowball chance in hell to win this match. Well 4 minutes later they realized how wrong they are. Which lasted less time then the 2 tag matches before it. Ahh remember when Jeff Hardy vs. HHH was relevant. What a co-main event that they pimped at the beginning of the show.

-Flair felicitates The Clique- Nice Flair admits the last 7 years of his career was nothing but a pathetic joke compared to the GREAT HBK! Then talks about passig the torch to HHH!?! WTF! The same HHH who's been the figurehead of this show for the last year! The same HHH who's been main eventing for 3 or 4 years! The same HHH who had the torch passed on to him by Foley! How many legend torches does this bastard need to spunch off... It was an emotional and beautiful speech. Too bad it makes no sense doing it for a guy who is already considered the favourite and established.

-Kane vs, 3minutes- And Kane destroys both of them by himself. If you going to do that stop there pushes all together NOW. These guys have start/stop pushes for the last few months. Not a fan of there's so I don't really mind not seeing them. RVD comes in and helps Kane clean house, but where's Hurricane? Another forgotten man on Raw.

-Strauts/Dudleyz vs. Victoria/Team Chris(tain)- Best match of the night, not much competition. The first commercial I thought WTF is TSN editing out this entire match all of a sudden, I really REALLY thought that and was ready to be really pissed, but they came back... The match was pretty much beating on Bubba the entire match then tons o'run ins. Victoria was dropped on her head (ouch)good thing Trish didn't do it or that would be the only thing written about the match. They did a decent job interplaying the 2 other teams in the PPV match into this match. Great looking finish by Trish and a huge finish bump by Victoria. WAIT Victoria finished the match after being dropped on her head buh gawd SHE FINISHED THE MATCH. Victoria milk that for the next year like your male Raw (soon to be)champion. She finished the damn match = never ending Push. Buh Gawd Victoria live on it FOREVER.

other stuff- outside the arena, okay the shovel shot was good. But it went got a little lamer with the dive off the truck into pillows (haha the great HBK outshadowed by Victoria's bump) and turned into pure cheese with HBK's little speech... Speaking of cheese Test and Stacy is a total guilty pleasure. I thought it was pretty cute their interaction with eachother... I think the backstage stuff really worked on Raw this week, Jericho & Trish segment was funny, they have a cool chemistry together. Notice Trish was on the first 10 pages of the book and then saying how great it is LOL Jericho giving his own excerpt. Did Trish say nuTRISHin, I think she spends night up thinking of how to put her name into words.

RVD chillin in Eric's office and had to be reminded that he had a match and should get ready for it "oh yeah that's a good idea"... RNN rules again hanging around talking to office ladies and kids and keep selling his arm LOL... Hell even HBK and JEff interaction worked well... I also really dug Team Chris(tain) looking into space when Victoria was talking, that was laugh out loud funny.

Line of the night:RVD after being told he should get ready for his match "Oh yeah! That sounds like a good idea"

Well in ring wasn't much but atleast there was a bunch of funny stuff backstage. And a pretty good main event. See I'm not all negative lol






Oh they have the internet on computers now!
Underwater
Boerewors








Since: 5.10.02
From: Battle Creek, Michigan

Since last post: 3228 days
Last activity: 2876 days
#68 Posted on

    Originally posted by VanillaSky


    People have now ventured into saying that HBK is holding back people and taking people's spots. The last post by DirtyMikeSeaver says, and I quote "Remember how great it was to see Rock and Austin rise from mid-card status to huge stars because the public basically demanded it?" I think the fans were pretty happy with his win at Survivor Series. It's sounded to me that HBK is pretty over. HBK has been wrestling full time again around a month. So what? I LOVE HBK! The guy is freaking awesome. Every match he's been in since his return at Summerslam has made me stand up and cheer. Plus, the guy made it seem RVD had him beat until the HHH interference, so I can't see how this is "burying" RVD.



See I think that the problem with HBK as champ is that it was a stunt to increase interest in the product. The ratings haven't gone up. So basically the short-term plan failed. Now Raw is basically back at square one. HHH is the champ, and is lacking an over face to play off of. While HBK is over, fans have been clamoring for RVD and Booker for a while now. They are probably the 2 most over natural faces in the company. As much as they have died down, the RVD chants are still there. I think if they were to try something different and give an unconventional character like RVD a shot at the top, interest in the product could return. I don't think Steiner or HHH or HBK at this point can offer that.



It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 2 days
#69 Posted on
My mom happened to see RVDs match last night. Her comment was "He's supposed to be a wrestler? He acts more like a ballet dancer." I don't see RVD as champ doing much to improve ratings.
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#70 Posted on

    Originally posted by InVerse
    My mom happened to see RVDs match last night. Her comment was "He's supposed to be a wrestler? He acts more like a ballet dancer." I don't see RVD as champ doing much to improve ratings.


All he needs is some Hammer Pants, and he's over like gangbusters.

RAW was good, but I don't think it was "Awesome". Enjoyable two hours.



RAW Satire 12/9
Vikings (3-10) -You've got to play, you know, both halves.
Badgers (7-6) - The Alamo Bowl? Oh boy?
Buffy 7.Blah Ah, the long stretch of bordem between new episodes...
Underwater
Boerewors








Since: 5.10.02
From: Battle Creek, Michigan

Since last post: 3228 days
Last activity: 2876 days
#71 Posted on

    Originally posted by InVerse
    My mom happened to see RVDs match last night. Her comment was "He's supposed to be a wrestler? He acts more like a ballet dancer." I don't see RVD as champ doing much to improve ratings.


My line of thinking is that RVD as champion would 1) capture the interest of the fanatical ECW fans who have given up on the WWE 2) His laid back "stoner" character seems, to me at least, a little more likely to appeal to the 18-49 male demographic that is abandoning the company right now, as his character would be able to connect with the fans in a way that HHH and HBK can't. They're both sort of larger-than-life characters who are are harder to associate with. 3)RVD is something different. A lot of the fans are tired of the same old, same old which is Raw's biggest problem. They actually made an effort to address this problem this week, and putting some new guys on top would really help.4) RVD has never been given the chance to draw. HBK and HHH both have been given their shots. The results haven't been that great. Shouldn't someone else who hasn't gotten their chance be given a shot?

Really you could plug in Booker T in the argument, but it seems like RVD is the more relevant contender at this point. The main point is that a real shake-up at the top is more likely to increase interest than the same old things that Raw has been doing.



It's like a koala bear crapped a rainbow in my brain!
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
#72 Posted on
The good parts of Raw were really good because they let the people who have solid grasps of their characters and how to use them to build a story right go out there and get it done. Goldust, Booker and Flair showed why they can connect with the fans and make things work.

Goldust, in particular, seems to be the most fully drawn character on Raw. SmackDown had Misterio, Raw has Goldust - the person added to the show this year who just pulls everything around him into proper orbit. His quick interview outside the ring after their show opening loss was really nice - it was Dustin the character breaking the Goldust facade. Look at where he was about a year ago, coming back in full Goldust fanfare and trying to recapture his WWF glory by singling out RVD. Over the course of the year, he came to realize it just wasn't going to happen and Booker ended up being the only other guy who could tolerate his hijinx.

And on Raw, he hits a point where he thinks the wacky stuff is costing the one guy who befriended him a chance to succeed and that's when we hear the guy under the paint start to talk, the guy who was in WCW with Booker and knows what it's like to get lost in the shuffle. That's some nice character work.

Booker, too, needed the moment later where he got Goldust to stick with him. The two of them are a lower-profile Rock 'n Sock, and this was that turning point moment like when Rock finally stood up for Foley and lead the walkout on Raw. Booker's character has been heading for this, going from the obsessed wannabe-actor and shampoo pitchman at Wrestlemania, to a guy willing to run with the nWo to get ahead to finally being someone who made a personal stand to stick with someone he can trust even if it might be a cost to his personal gain.

Now they just need to win and win big at Armageddon or it's all a huge, unfixable disaster. No heel turns, no screwjobs, just two guys finally managing to succeed after making meaningful character journeys over the course of the year and giving us a positive payoff.

You have to give credit to the two of them as performers for managing to hang in there despite getting left adrift with no direction (except, sometimes, down) for much of the year and pulling off that kind of nifty character interaction on the show where people do mannequins. Cool stuff.

Flair, in his own way, was terrific in his segment. In his case, though, it was how he said things than what he said. On his own, he managed to make the HHH vs. HBK thing actually seem interesting. It's just a shame that he had to basically say that the other two are the greatest wrestlers in the history of all ever. Maybe next week, he can give Arn to HHH as a present and burn all of his robes because he's not fit to wear them as long as HHH walks the earth. But anyway, it's a testament to how good he is that he could make that message compelling.

The wrestling on Raw isn't really getting it done for me, but I appreciate that they're trying. The Booker vs. Christian match last week was actually really good, as was the follow-up spontaneous Booker/Goldust vs. Chris/Christian (and Excalibur, Chris Chen, man, not Chris Tian) match, even if having Booker lose early in the shows is clearly deflating the crowd and shutting them down for the rest of the show. But the Dudley-style matches just don't really appeal to me. It's energetic, but seems really by the numbers with the whole "two guys clear the ring, they get wiped out, the guys who took them out get wiped out, the first two guys come back in and wipe them out to clear the ring again" thing. They do seem to be trying to build up a centerpiece match per show, though, which they hadn't been doing for a while. And having Jericho and Christian, the two most expressive heels as far as the in-ring stuff goes, as the constants is the way to go. They were cool in their limited backstage stuff again, of course.

Things that weren't actually good and yet entertained me inlcuded RVD on the telephone (because I was all "He's talking to some guy at the pizza delivery place!"). I was hoping Van Dam would lose the Batista match because he'd keep saying "Dave's not here!" and would be unable to stop giggling to himself, but they seem to have dropped "Dave" again. Jeff Hardy apparently turning into a snake every week also entertains me, just because I can keep doing a "Jeff Hardy was oncccccce a maaaaan! Oncccccceeeeee a maaaaaaaan!" everytime they show him backstage.

The last shot of the show was the funniest part, though. That lingering shot of HHH sleeping peacefully in the dumpster was funny beyond words. Not so much because it was HHH or because him being in a big giant pile of trash is funny - well, yeah, maybe so much that - but just something about that little shot of him sleeping peacefully in the dumpster was hilarious in its absurd incongruity. You just couldn't have predicted that coming as the last shot before the PPV. I think HBK did the best he could with the weird Raven-esque monologue he had while crawling out of the trash covered in garbage, all Luke Skywalker like. I think he's having trouble figuring out what character he's supposed to be, going from being righteously angered to having to slink away to being the old mentor to RVD and Jeff to getting ticked when Jeff talks about asking for advice. It's probably because HHH is walking that tweener line and that doesn't really give Michaels a good spot to pick between being cocky HBK or changed man Shawn Michaels, so he can't really lock into what he's supposed to be. Somewhere in there, he's going for wounded pride, they just can't quite get to it. If he's still around come next Raw, hopefully they'll have a better definition of where he stands.
The 5th Horseman
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Since last post: 2953 days
Last activity: 2942 days
#73 Posted on

    Originally posted by VanillaSky
    Thank God that when the Honky Tonk Man held the IC belt for a year and a half there was no IWC backlash towards him! Honky and HHH have a lot of similarities in their reigns. Both are people that crowds want to see lose the belt badly. Both would lie, cheat, steal, double cross, maim, etc. just to keep that belt. HHH held the belt about a total of 5 months this year. HTM held it for a year and a half. A YEAR AND A HALF! I used to freak out watching wrestling when I was a kid when there was a match between a well known superstar (Macho, Hillbilly Jim, Hacksaw) against HTM b/c he could lose at any time. I get that same excitement with HHH's reigns. That is the mark of a good heel worker...wanting to see him lose!


Sorry, but I don't see the comparison between Honkey Tonk Man's IC reign and the current HHH run. First of all, HTM was the IC Champion and therefore wasn't main eventing and he damn sure wasn't the main focus of shows. Plus, HTM held on to his title not by beating his opponents but usually by getting himself counted out or disqualified by hitting his opponent with a guitar in plain view of the ref. HTM damn sure never beat a top contender even while the ref was HELPING his opponent throughout the match. After HTM's match, the feeling was that HTM's opponent was actually better but, HTM got away by keeping his title the cowardly way. And, when it came time for the payoff, for HTM to finally lose his title, he dropped his title to the hot new star, Ultimate Warrior, in a total squash that only lasted about 20 seconds. What kind of odds do you want to lay that HHH will not pay off like that? Using the HTM comparison, HHH should win the Title and then get his long awaited comeuppance by getting squashed in 20 seconds by Brock Lesnar to once again unify the title. Just for the combative types, I'm not saying that's what should happen to HHH, I'm just following the HTM comparison to it's comparable conclusion.


VanillaSky, if you get the feeling that HHH could lose his title at any time, that's cool but, I just don't get the same feeling. Furthermore, I don't see how you get that impression. A lot of people make fun of Shawn Michaels for using his "lost my smile" excuse to avoid jobbing to Bret Hart to lose his title but, look at some of the ways HHH has lost titles in the past. He lost the WWF title one time because Vince McMahon got pinned when HHH had to put his title on the line in a 6 man match with Vince and Shane McMahon as his partners vs. Rock, Undertaker, and Kane (another case of the deck being stacked against HHH but, at least he logically lost that one). He lost the IC title one time when a car door was slammed on his knee and he was forced to give up the title to have knee surgery. He also lost a title to Owen Hart (can't remember if it was IC or European) when he sent Golddust out dressed like HHH as a joke and Owen beat Golddust so, Sargeant Slaughter declared Owen the new champion.

I think HHH has been given enough leeway in the past that he owes it to the WWE to help the company by elevating some of the newer guys the same way Mick Foley elevated him. HHH doesn't have to start jobbing to all the other upper level guys but, job to them SOME and let them look good against him to at least help them appear equal. I know HHH has that in him. He's done it on occasion in the past. He made Jericho look good while losing to HHH in the "Last Man Standing" match. He made Benoit look good while losing to HHH in Benoit's first match on WWF TV. He made Mick Foley look good while losing to HHH in the last 2 PPV matches between Mick and HHH. He made Austin look good while losing to HHH in the 2 out of 3 falls match at No Way Out. That's what frustrates me about HHH, not a hatred for HHH but, rather, the knowledge that he is capable of having matches where both guys come out looking better than they did before the match no matter who actually wins the match. But, that's just my humble opinion.
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3211 days
Last activity: 3211 days
#74 Posted on
The point that the HHH defenders never seem to be able to defend is the fact that this great heel champion, who is making us just want to see him get beat, and is the main focus of the show, is tanking.

So what if that is the idea behind Triple H burying all his opponents? Is it right that he stays on top when the show is tanking? When they're hitting 5 year lows in the RAW rating? Does it make any logical sense at all to keep this man on top of the show? How is it logical to keep a guy on top when his show has seen the most drastic ratings decline in modern history?

I want to see Triple H lose but I know better. Honky escaped by the skin of his teeth in all his title defenses and usually his challengers went on to bigger feuds. Everybody that challenges HHH is beaten, and treated like a midcard act for a few months.

How did Rob Van Dam benefit from his feud with Triple H? Is he more over now? Is he more of a threat after failing three times and once with a referee cheating for him? Is he even on the next pay-per-view>

How did Kane benefit? In the storyline terms, HHH destroyed his life and reputation but the only revenge Kane ever got was in a Casket Match where he couldn't win without HBK.

The only one who has benefitted at all from Triple H is Shawn Michaels.

Why don't people believe that HHH could drop the title at any time to anybody? Has HHH put anyone over in the past 3 years? Gimme an example, come on, just one example of him putting someone over.
The 5th Horseman
Kolbasz








Since: 23.10.02
From: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

Since last post: 2953 days
Last activity: 2942 days
#75 Posted on
    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    Has HHH put anyone over in the past 3 years? Gimme an example, come on, just one example of him putting someone over.


Well, I agree with your point but, to be perfectly fair to HHH, he did put over Jericho in the Raw match where Jericho beat him for the WWF title before the match was declared to have never happened. But, for some reason, the WWF lost that momentum for Jericho when they didn't follow that up with a feud for the WWF title between Jericho and HHH. They waited until after HHH lost the title to the Rock before they picked up a Jericho-HHH feud and, as I mentioned in my previous post, Jericho lost the "Last Man Standing" match vs. HHH but, he looked good and should have been elevated afterward. And, also from my previous post, HHH was scheduled to lose to Benoit on SmackDown but, the plans were changed after Eddy Guerrero dislocated his elbow during the Saturn/Guerrero vs. New Age Outlaws match and Guerrero was pinned instead of the original plan, which was for Guerrero and Saturn to go over the NAO. Benoit lost that match to HHH but, he looked good and HHH even tapped out to the Crippler Crossface while the ref was out.

But, I get your point. They never got the big win over HHH.

(edited by The 5th Horseman on 11.12.02 0139)
The King of Keith
Lap cheong








Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

Since last post: 263 days
Last activity: 223 days
AIM:  
#76 Posted on
These are all great arguments you guys are using. I'm being honest and no sarcasm.

He did put Kane over for the IC belt in the early part of 2001. He also put over D'Lo in a huge shocker for the Euro belt way back in 1998 (I know, I know, pre-Stephanie). This guy also put over the Warrior at WMXII without one offensive move. He has put people over now and then, but not recently is your arguement. Believe it or not, I did think RVD came out looking better than he had looked due to their PPV match at Unforgiven. I remember that stretch where he was wrestling people left and right on Raw and Smackdown making them look great. Now it seems he's a lot slower in the ring. Sure, his skill has deteriorated some. He's still an awesome worker, he still pops the crowd huge, and he's still the best heel out there. HHH is a monster heel and I can dig that. The monster heel is supposed to destroy babyfaces. At least, that's how I remember it all.

How did this thread on how I though Raw rocked turn into me defending HHH? I just seem to get the feeling that the majority of the posters on here think: RAW=HHH=automatically sucking. I don't think that's the case. Raw was great. HHH was a little part. As was Booker. As was Golddust. As was Jericho/Christian. I'll stand by it. Hope some of you watch the PPV, b/c it's shaping up to be pretty hot!



PowerPB13
Potato korv








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 15 hours
Last activity: 15 hours
AIM:  
#77 Posted on
<< He did put Kane over for the IC belt in the early part of 2001. >>

...after Austin accidentally hit him with a chair...

<< He also put over D'Lo in a huge shocker for the Euro belt way back in 1998. >>

...after getting Rock Bottomed by The Rock...

-Patrick
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#78 Posted on

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    (and Excalibur, Chris Chen, man, not Chris Tian)


Sure, if you want it to SOUND right, but I want it to READ right.



RAW Satire 12/9
Vikings (3-10) -You've got to play, you know, both halves.
Badgers (7-6) - The Alamo Bowl? Oh boy?
Buffy 7.Blah Ah, the long stretch of bordem between new episodes...
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#79 Posted on

    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

      Originally posted by InVerse
      Yeah, RVD sure was being buried. First, a big monster who's been destroying people has to have help from Flair to keep RVD from beating him yet still doesn't manage to pin RVD and then RVD comes in and helps Kane beat down 3 other guys. Not to mention he got to punk out the general manager & chief of staff. If RVD gets anymore buried, he just might win the title.

    Well, in my book, RVD getting involved w/ Kane & 3MW doesn't seem like a step up for a guy who was competing for the title 1 month ago, and #1 contender for the belt 3 weeks ago.

    But that's just me.



Who DO you want him to fight? That's the BEST RAW has. I'm serious. That's the top talent for the show.


Tribal Prophet
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3211 days
Last activity: 3211 days
#80 Posted on
Just for the record, way back before this endless HHH debate, I said I thought that RAW was great for RAW and good overall. The continuous push of HHH when the ratings are falling and the houses are shrinking, just makes my head spin, that's all.
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