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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw thoughts (Page 5)
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BoromirMark
Potato korv








Since: 8.5.02
From: Milan-Ann Arbor, MI

Since last post: 81 days
Last activity: 81 days
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#81 Posted on
(deleted by CRZ on 9.4.03 0139)
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 7 days
AIM:  
#82 Posted on
All I ask is for people to AT LEAST come up with some new material...

-Patrick
Venom
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.03

Since last post: 2415 days
Last activity: 2385 days
#83 Posted on
    Originally posted by Excalibur05
    So the ONLY way that the show can be good is if it "pushes new guys". Oh. Right. Wait...No. Besides, it's not like Christian got bunches of screentime, or Morely/Storm were made to look pretty strong, or Hurricane got involved in the Main event, or that alot of screen time is being used to put over the tag and women's title divisions, or that Booker pinned HHH clean. Right?

There's a big difference between "on TV lots" and "meaning a god damned thing in 2 months." It's all in the presentation, not wins and losses and TV time. Ooooo, Hurricane ran in and got his ass kicked! That'll get him over! Everyone loves to cheer losers. Booker T gets a fluke roll up pin on Triple H after losing to him in a heavily hyped match at the biggest show of the year. And he has to have Kevin Nash save him! He's going straight to the top!



    Political humour. OH! Biting!

Yeah, breaking up posts into little chunks and making smart ass remarks in between is the wave of the future. Scott Keith is adjusting his style AS WE SPEAK!



    Oh, that's bullshit and you know it. Not two months ago, it was damn near a sin to ENJOY the show. Now that the show is genuinely enjoyable, you're expecting people to just accept your panning at face value?

WHOA WHOA WHOA, back the fuck up. I NEVER had a problem with people liking the show. I had a problem with people belittling and insulting those who didn't like the show. If you liked the show, fine, but I don't really care. I only care about what I like and am entertained by. If you want to discuss those differences, fine. Also, just because you found it enjoyable and I didn't does not mean my opinion is instantly canceled out of the universe and erased from existence. I understand that having a wrestling column on the internet makes people feel like they have some Raiders of the Lost Ark power were they can destroy non-believers and melt Nazis by words alone, but using an aesthetically based opinion to disclude another is pretty ignorant and nihilistic.



    No, I guess what we're saying is that you must have been watching some OTHER Monday Night RAW, because you're complaining about an entertaining show.

    Furthermore, you didn't just "complain about one RAW" after months of praising it. You dragged out the old, tired "This show sucks. I'm going to quit watching". Why do you feel compelled to tell us, first of all, and second of all, if they've put together months of good shows, and you enjoyed them, then why the hell does that change after one supposedly bad outing?



Again...your opinion based on your personal enjoyment doesn't disclude mine. If you want to discuss the difference in opinion, go ahead, that's why I post here. If you want to use it as factual basis, I don't give a fuck what you think about the show, because I know what I'm entertained by and what I'm not. If you want to present a fact like "ratings went up" or "buyrates went up" to support that thesis, it'll lend it more creedence.

As for the show, I found it to be a complete abomination and it was the fact that RAW has been making strides in the right direction, only to saw off their leg a month into it, that pisses me off even more. Nash as a main-event babyface is probably the biggest dumbfuck move since WCW made Nash a main-event babyface. Shawn Michaels is barely able to work once a week, let alone a full schedule, do you think it's a fantastic ideal to place him near the top too? Jericho getting his ass kicked by Nash, Hurricane's pitiful run in, Booker's continued streak of wins in meaningless tag matches...everything, for me, was overshadowed by the awfulness of the main-event crap and the "I'm not gonna watch anymore" statement comes from the belief that it's their new long term direction. I could be wrong, but Nash running in on a main-event and single handledly destroying everyone looks bad.



    Well, you CAN, but know your audience before hand. It's unlikely that you'd be bringing anything new to the table, and past that, it's VERY unlikely that you're going to change anybody's opinions because of it. Which kind of renders the whole arguing thing pointless.


I've said this in a few Triple H threads (the Open Letter to Triple H being one). My point wasn't "HEY KIDS, LETS BASH TRIPLE H." It was, "people can't bash Triple H anymore without being taken to task for it."



    Again, yes you can. But your bashing should probably be justified, or at least justifiable. And, it probably shouldn't contain a cliche overly dramatic statement.

Again, I don't give a shit if it's justified by you or anyone else. It's my opinion. I didn't make the cases against Raw before hand because they had already been made in this thread, so it only seemed necessary to throw my hat in the "I hated this show" pile. It was an overdramatic, cliched statement and I didn't think anything of it when I posted a little 30 word blurb on how I felt before going to class this afternoon. I was unaware Internet Inspector Clouseau would be jamming his magnifying glass up my ass and analysing my every word.



    Wow, you sure did compile a list of Internet faves didn't you? I doubt many people would care if you bashed Nash, but you should probably save it until he's at least had ONE match.


Again, the message wasn't "GO BASH BIG KEV!"



    When he's one of the best things on Smackdown? And not taking anything away from anybody? Why?

So sayeth God, Matt Hocking...quick, etch this in stone and run it down to Moses! Again, your aesthetic opinion means jackshit if you're using it as fact.



    You have something NEW to say? Let's hear it.


That wasn't the point...it's called sarcasm...it's almost like condescension (which you have down) only it's shorter and doesn't take as long to reply to...



    For what? What has he done in the ring/on TV in the WWE
    yet for you to bash?


I haven't done it yet...does it piss you off? I need a cue...



    For what? For putting on a tremendous match at WrestleMania? For putting on some good promos? For existing?

For being put into a main-event fued with his best friend on RAW after 4 years of nothing and only being able to work once a month while there were at least 5 guys more youthful, more able to get over, and without the fused spines available. I could go into pre-98 Shawn if you want...oh, and the point wasn't "let's bash Shawn."



    No open letters.

    Ever.



"Dear Matt Hocking,

Shut the Fuck Up

Your Friend,
Venom"

(edited by Venom on 8.4.03 2255)

(edited by Venom on 8.4.03 2308)



Hah...hah...hah...hah! YA SCUM!!!
Krankor: The Man, The Myth, The Legend
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#84 Posted on
From Excalibur's post to Venom: "I doubt many people would care if you bashed Nash, but you should probably save it until he's at least had ONE match."

While I would argue with the majority of your post, most of it is simply opinion and that's really one of those things you can't change. However, I would ask what giant bottle of limitless optimism you're chugging down to think that Nash is going to somehow be more enjoyable now that's coming off a major injury than he was in the last few years when he was slow and plodding and just generally not particularly good to watch? Isn't pretty much everything post Starrcade '98 enough of a reason to bash him?




"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it." - Robert E. Lee

For anyone who thinks that Booker will be going over HHH at Backlash, feel free to PM me about the HHH Challenge.
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
#85 Posted on
    Originally posted by Venom
    There's a big difference between "on TV lots" and "meaning a god damned thing in 2 months." It's all in the presentation, not wins and losses and TV time. Ooooo, Hurricane ran in and got his ass kicked! That'll get him over! Everyone loves to cheer losers. Booker T gets a fluke roll up pin on Triple H after losing to him in a heavily hyped match at the biggest show of the year. And he has to have Kevin Nash save him! He's going straight to the top!


Of course, it's all in the perception. Of course it is. Yeah, Hurricane got beat down, but the fact that he showed up. It happens once this week. Maybe it happens again next week. Maybe it doesn't. But it gets his name out there, his face out there. People may not remember three weeks from now that Hurricane got beat down by HHH, and they may remember that he played even a periferal role in a match between the four guys who were in two of the biggest matches at WrestleMania. OR maybe they won't remember even that. But God, even the fact that he showed up means that the WWE is willing to try something with him. He didn't NEED to show up, but he did. Kevin Nash had to save Shawn Michaels. In fact, Michaels was one of the main subjects of beat down. Does that mean that Shawn is getting depushed? Oh no!

No of course it doesn't. And one angle or match, not even a match at WrestleMania is going to make a guy a main event star. Booker is pretty much there, and even a guy like Hurricane is getting there. And, no, it wasn't a "fluke" roll-up. Booker pinned HHH. Booker proved that he could beat the WWE champion. That goes a long way to making him credible.



    Yeah, breaking up posts into little chunks and making smart ass remarks in between is the wave of the future. Scott Keith is adjusting his style AS WE SPEAK!


Why should he? I honestly don't see the need for a lame political joke in a wrestling discussion, but I think that if I'm going to reply to what you have been saying, it's best if you know what I'm responding to, right? Am I the only one who thinks that makes sense. Eh. Maybe I am.



    WHOA WHOA WHOA, back the fuck up. I NEVER had a problem with people liking the show. I had a problem with people belittling and insulting those who didn't like the show. If you liked the show, fine, but I don't really care. I only care about what I like and am entertained by. If you want to discuss those differences, fine. Also, just because you found it enjoyable and I didn't does not mean my opinion is instantly canceled out of the universe and erased from existence. I understand that having a wrestling column on the internet makes people feel like they have some Raiders of the Lost Ark power were they can destroy non-believers and melt Nazis by words alone, but using an aesthetically based opinion to disclude another is pretty ignorant and nihilistic.


Oh, yeah. The Satire makes me feel like I can do anything. I've got that much audience and reach. Uh...no. And the Satire makes me very candid about what about RAW I liked and didn't, but I don't come in here and put big neon signs in here about what irritated me, either. If you WANT to that's your perogative. Cool, whatever. It's your opinion and that's FINE. The only thing that prompted me to say anything was that you said that tonight, after one show, after months of what you called "good" RAWs, that you knew the direction of the company, the quality of future RAWs and that you were going to stop watching.

Fine, that too is your opinion that too is your perogative. But to come in to a thread and state that you're ready to stop watching, because frankly, besides you, I doubt if anyone would notice. And then you said,

Could someone explain any GOOD that went on last night? I would love to see someone spin this shit, really I would.

Well, if you want to be inflamitory, great. But that's all that was meant to be, which is fine, but then when I come back and say "Ok, here's what I and a few other posters have been saying was good about RAW, and has been good about the product as a whole over the last few months", there's no need to get snippity. You asked for it. You got it. Sorry you don't agree, and that's fine. But I don't think we particularily need you to tell us whether or not you're watching. Just what you thought about parts of the show. But then again, you didn't even do that. You made a blanket statement about the show not "doing the right thing (pushing new guys)", said you were going to go on a two month hiatus (what are you cancelling your TiVo subscription?), and asked for us to explain what we thought the good parts of the show were. We did, and you came back to say more, which is fine. But why a show which you claim you don't even want to watch is worth your time discussing, I'll never know. It's nowhere near constructive, not that most snarking is.

I mean after all, if you don't like HHH, it's one thing to sit there and snipe on his faults, but it's another (and this is would actually be pretty neat) to try to think of ways that he's
a) actually being used somewhat effectively, so that watching the show doesn't become a chore to you, and
b) Think of ways that he COULD be used more effectively without destroying his career or his character.



    Again...your opinion based on your personal enjoyment doesn't disclude mine. If you want to discuss the difference in opinion, go ahead, that's why I post here. If you want to use it as factual basis, I don't give a fuck what you think about the show, because I know what I'm entertained by and what I'm not. If you want to present a fact like "ratings went up" or "buyrates went up" to support that thesis, it'll lend it more creedence.


It's your opinion too, and that's fine and great. But just coming in here and laying down a "the show sucked" opinion doesn't gain you anything, nor does it gain ANYONE anything. The people who disagree with you will always disagree with you and the people who agree with you will always agree with you. So why say it? What's wrong with saying (other than "not pushing" new workers) WHAT it was you thought sucked, and why? Is there something WRONG with a well thought out post?

As for buyrates and ratings, eh. I just want to be entertained. If a show pulls a .1 rating and I thought it was good, I'm still happy. I have no clue what RAW pulled, and frankly I don't care. Honestly, if I didn't have a column to write (oops, using my Nazi column as an excuse!), I probably would have taped RAW and watched the NCAA Finals. In no way is that an excuse for a poor rating. Poor writing, poor work (none of which I saw, especially in the last 2/3s of the show) would be the cause for a lower rating.

Though frankly, I think that middling ratings for wrestling are indicitive of a wider trend. The fact that RAW has stayed on the air for 10 years is a testiment to the staying power of wrestling on televison, given the fact that the average run for even a "hit" show is 6 years, and even THEN any turnover at the "top" would be deemed the nail in the coffin of the show. Frankly, I think that people just have better things to do with their lives than watch wrestling, no matter who is on the top. They could put Chris Jericho and Booker T in the hottest feud ever for the World title, and I really don't suspect that ratings would jump. Not because they can't draw, but because people quite frankly aren't really all that interested right now.



    As for the show, I found it to be a complete abomination and it was the fact that RAW has been making strides in the right direction, only to saw off their leg a month into it, that pisses me off even more. Nash as a main-event babyface is probably the biggest dumbfuck move since WCW made Nash a main-event babyface. Shawn Michaels is barely able to work once a week, let alone a full schedule, do you think it's a fantastic ideal to place him near the top too? Jericho getting his ass kicked by Nash, Hurricane's pitiful run in, Booker's continued streak of wins in meaningless tag matches...everything, for me, was overshadowed by the awfulness of the main-event crap and the "I'm not gonna watch anymore" statement comes from the belief that it's their new long term direction. I could be wrong, but Nash running in on a main-event and single handledly destroying everyone looks bad.


Well, single handedly destroying Flair and Jericho, anyway. But now we're on to something. Now you actually have points. You name some names, and damned if there isn't an opinion up in there. That's really all I wanted, and if this was your first post, I'd have been less likely to be so hostile to you. Instead, to me, it seemed like you were just being inflamitory. Not that I wouldn't have tried to argue with you, but it probably would have been more along the nature of good spirited debate.

Frankly, I, smark or mark, see absolutely nothing in Hurricane, except a decent lower-card guy who has a bright future on Heat. He does nothing for me. Even when he he was working with Rock, I thought that it was cute, even funny, but more because of Rock's reaction than ANYTHING Hurricane did or said. But the fact that he was out there on Monday, and the fact that he went from being that guy on Heat to getting in some good shots in on the World Champion, that elevates him in my eyes. No. It doesn't make him a main eventer over night, but it puts him over any of the other guys that DIDN'T show up out there last night. That DIDN'T try to go toe to toe with Flair, Jericho, AND HHH. That's what elevates him in my eyes. And it's the same with Booker. He went from jobbing in tag team matches with Goldust against the UnAmericans to going over in tag team matches with Shawn Michaels, HHH, Ric Flair and Chris Jericho. That's saying something. They could have had him lose. They could have had Michaels get the pin. They didn't. And besides, just being in the ring, and being seen as able to hang with those guys, especially Shawn and Hunter is huge.



    I've said this in a few Triple H threads (the Open Letter to Triple H being one). My point wasn't "HEY KIDS, LETS BASH TRIPLE H." It was, "people can't bash Triple H anymore without being taken to task for it."


And I said, "That's because you're not saying anything you haven't already said."

It's not the wrong or the right of it. People have already pitched their tents on the side they want to be on. But we've played this tennis match before, and no matter how many times we play, the score is never going to change, so what's the point of serving? Let it go, come up with something new to add to the discussion, and then maybe they'll be a point to it.



    Again, I don't give a shit if it's justified by you or anyone else. It's my opinion. I didn't make the case against Raw before hand because they had already been made in this thread, so it only seemed necessary to throw my hat in the "I hated this show" pile. It was an overdramatic, cliched statement and I didn't think nothing of it when I posted a little 30 word blurb on how I felt before going to class this afternoon. I was unaware Internet Inspector Clouseau would be jamming his magnifying class up my ass and analysing my every word.


Well, when you make a statement to the effect of "The show sucked so much I'm not going to watch it for a few months", it's going to raise some eyebrows. Then when you say, "try to spin this shit", well...You don't think that anybody is going to say, "Well, ok, here you go". Again, having and stating your opinion is FINE, but making blanket statements that you really don't support and making vacant threats that frankly, nobody but you really cares about, seems kind of silly. I mean, if you're going to bother to have an opinion on the subject, and then going to post said opinion, you should probably take the time to actually HAVE an opinion. I'm not just talking about "sucked" "didn't suck". I'm talking about "Hey, Sucked. Here's how:"

I didn't post in this thread, because a lot of good points had already been made. Nobody cares what I personally thought of the show, so I didn't bother to say it. I'm not THAT self important. The people who liked the show already probably picked up on the good stuff, and those who didn't already nit picked the bad stuff, and if I could think of anything interesting (like the fact that HHH jobbed TWICE! in the tag match), then I'd bring it up as the show had a chance to sink in.



    So sayeth God, Matt Hocking...quick, etch this in stone and run it down to Moses! Again, your aesthetic opinion means jackshit if you're using it as fact.



Well, I'd say "listen to the pops", but that's not a valid form of arguementation anymore. And, uh...I never said I was God. I'm just a guy. Just like you're a guy. I'm genuinely entertained by everything Hogan has done since his match at Backlash. In fact, he's one of the few bright spots on Smackdown for me. I know, that's JUST ME. But I have a feeling that I'm not the only one, either. But then again, if you HAVE something to say about Hogan, by all means say it. Understand that there will be people that disagree with you. I just hope that both sides will be articulate enough to debate the pros and cons.



    That wasn't the point...it's called sarcasm...it's almost like condescension (which you have down) only it's shorter and doesn't take as long to reply to...


I'm all for sarcasm. It's one my favorite kinds of "asm". And, if I come off condecending...well...ok. I'm not going to appologize for that right now, because I think that at the very least, it was a little bit warranted. You made a post, it got counterpointed, and you got defensive. I get that. But rather than trying to elaborate, you just spouted off. If that's your thing, hey cool, but you can pretty much expect that you're going to get called on it. I made counterpoint, and you came back with saying that you posted that after disliking one RAW, unnecessary political humor and a list of things that you "couldn't bash" and didn't even try to make an arguement out of it. What's the point of coming back if you don't have anything to say? I think the reason Boromir (and to some extent Pat) have said anything to credit me, is because at least I was trying to make an arguement out of it. Not a fight. An arguement.

Finally here in this post, you've made your points. They're valid ones. I don't agree with them, but at least you've made them.



    I haven't done it yet...does it piss you off? I need a cue...


No. It doesn't. But if you're going to bash ANYBODY, at least try to have a good reason.



    For being put into a main-event fued with his best friend on RAW after 4 years of nothing and only being able to work once a month while there were at least 5 guys more youthful, more able to get over, and without the fused spines available. I could go into pre-98 Shawn if you want...oh, and the point wasn't "let's bash Shawn."


Who cares who is friends with who? Honestly? They put on some good matches, and that's what we want as fans, right? And hey, last time I checked, Shawn's history was with Hunter, but his feud was with Jericho. Still. And I honestly don't think that Kane, RVD, or Booker at the point in time that they feuded with HHH (even before Kane's angle) were anywhere near ready to hold the title. I just watched Unforgiven on Tuesday, and it was almost embarissing watching the build for that angle. RVD looked like shit in that angle, and it wasn't all Hunter's fault. Listening to JR try to cover for the fact that RVD, honestly, looked like he didn't give a fuck if he was in the main event. There was his chance, losing or not, to show that he was on par with HHH. To show that he could be intense, a credible champion, cut a halfway decent promo, anything, and he walked through it like he was wrestling Nova in a dark match. That's my OPINION, mind you. But after watching that, it's no wonder he's in the opening match.



    "Dear Matt Hocking,

    Shut the Fuck Up

    Your Friend,
    Venom"



Dear Venom,

Sorry, don't know your real name.
Uh...writing this to tell you that
no, I won't "Shut the fuck up".
But thanks for the letter, it's
always nice hearing from you!
Your Friend,
-Matt

Geez, don't know when we turned so mean spirited.


    From Spf
    While I would argue with the majority of your post, most of it is simply opinion and that's really one of those things you can't change. However, I would ask what giant bottle of limitless optimism you're chugging down to think that Nash is going to somehow be more enjoyable now that's coming off a major injury than he was in the last few years when he was slow and plodding and just generally not particularly good to watch? Isn't pretty much everything post Starrcade '98 enough of a reason to bash him?


Undertaker has been putting on some entertaining matches lately. Hell even with guys like Albert and Big Show he's been above mediocre. So, anything's possible.

Edited again because I love me some Editing.

(edited by Excalibur05 on 9.4.03 0248)

Satire 04/07/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.17 gets a 7.87 So...Spike and Wood have Oedipus complexes...riiiiight...
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#86 Posted on

    Originally posted by Excalibur05

      Originally posted by Venom

      1) If I hadn't said the last 4 or 5 Raws were excellent and enjoyable in the previous "Raw Thoughts" threads and
      2) If I hadn't posted within this very thread "After several weeks of doing the right stuff (pushing new guys)..."



    So the ONLY way that the show can be good is if it "pushes new guys". Oh. Right. Wait...No. Besides, it's not like Christian got bunches of screentime, or Morely/Storm were made to look pretty strong, or Hurricane got involved in the Main event, or that alot of screen time is being used to put over the tag and women's title divisions, or that Booker pinned HHH clean. Right?




Yeah, because Val Venis and Lance Storm are young new guys...

Well, at least I now know that the green blur that went flying past my tv screen in a 1/10 of a second was the Hurricane getting main event time. Too bad 7 minutes later only people on this board remembered he was even alive, and even then it's only 50% of us.

This week was a step back in terms of pushing new guys. As much as I liked this week's show, I'll admit that. The tage belts have gotten monster time the last couple of weeks, and the women's title has more respect from the WWE than it ever has before, but this week wasn't about new people, it was about Nash coming back, J.R. recycling an angle from 36 days ago, and Booker T getting another tag-victory, which all IWC bitterness aside, really doesn't mean nearly as much as a single's victory in anyone's eyes.


Here's hoping I closed off all the quoteblock things before posting...
Tribal Prophet



Wrestling exists in the eternal present. What is, has always been, and when it no longer is, it never was. It has no past and no future, and sometimes even today is in question. - Madame Manga
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
#87 Posted on

    Originally posted by Tribal Prophet
    Yeah, because Val Venis and Lance Storm are young new guys...


Well, they are DIFFERENT.

It's not like RVD, Kane and Booker are fresh new faces either.



Satire 04/07/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.17 gets a 7.87 So...Spike and Wood have Oedipus complexes...riiiiight...
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3399 days
Last activity: 1819 days
#88 Posted on
I liked everything on the show (well except the overrun). I was into the entire two hours. A great mix of good to decent wrestling and some real funny backstage skits.

-Trish vs. Jazz- It might have been a little rough around the edges but I really enjoyed it. Trish's kicks are solid, love that blocked left-leg kick just to come around with the other one that knocked Jazz all away to the outside. The match was twice as long as usual women matched but I didn't feel it dragged on at all. The bookends of the match a lot of quick strikes by Trish while the middle of the match had a lot of physical mat wrestling by Jazz... The Stratusfaction will never win the best move award from me, but it's decent. For last night, I might be alone here but it looked to me Jazz was going for a backdrop and Trish countered it by pushing her feet off the ropes and hitting the Stratusfaction. That's what I got out of it. If it was a mess up I think they covered well.

-Morley vs. RVD- I liked this match, it moved very quickly and alot of solid moves by both men.

-Nowinski/Steiner stuff- Nowinski makes a lot of sense, should a heel make A LOT more sense the the face. Steiner attacks him violently cause that's the only ACTION he knows "Because there's limits to Nowinski's liberty, because this liberal freak has gone too far!". Nowinski on the mic rules .

-Rock vs. Jeff Hardy- I liked this match alot. I thought Jeff might even have a chance (which is a good thing). I have soured on Jeff a bit recently but I still like the kid, the match was very entertaining IMO. Very good 7 minutes... Out comes the "Enigma only known as Goldberg" What does that mean? ENIGMA- Goldberg came from WCW, he was a second rate football player,what exactly is inexplicable or puzzling of Goldberg. Lilian's underwear now that's an enigma. ONLY KNOWN AS GOLDBERG- That's his name, what else would we know him as?

-Dudleys vs. Kane- This match was okay for what is suppose to be, it's hard to rate handicap matches because well.. I hate them. At least the guy who's disadvantaged 1 on 2 didn't destroy the tag team. Which is a good thing... The post match beatdown was as good as I've ever seen it. Lance Storm hitting the Lance Stormanator (TM ME) was a beauty.

-Bischoff interview- JR fired! Oh now Coach & King for 2 hours. JR is so mean, after listening to the Coach most are going to beg for Sooner Boomer to return buh gawd.

-Golddust vs. Richards- Good match but the MVP of the match had to be Victoria. Her nervous twitches outside was very eyecatching and funny. Victoria going to Lilian and asking if she saw her belt and not getting Stevie's weapon of choice was great stuff.

-Booker/Michaels vs. HHH/Jericho- I actually thought this match was the most disappointing (not the worst but disapointing) match of the night. This match seemed to drag on. There was a flurry by Booker once but nothing too outstanding. I guess HHH can call it even with Booker T for WM. Booker got such a meaningful win. We've seen this song and dance before with RVD & Kane almost to a T (pardon the pun)... Nash stroll in was as slow and boring as you can get. That "Roseanne" music is brutal. Instead of him putting me to sleep during his matches I think they want us to fall asleep before Nash's matches.

-other stuff- The backstage stuff really shined last night. Goldust/Test/Stacy for the 2nd week was funny, Golddust is amazing he can take something really bad tweak it a little and make it entertaining as hell... Evil French newsmen are already on top of my list as favorite tag teams, hope they come in with a Rougeaus Brothers type of attitude... Well I guess I knew sooner or later Jazz and the Mack will get together on screen (wait I thought there was a report Mack got released last week?). Just don't know if Rodney is ready for this raise on the card... Lilian looked extra mint tonight, Actually all girls did tonight...

Rock was awesome backstage interacting with everyone, trying to use his lines on Trish, just for her to no sell it. Then calling Jeff a maxi pad (don't know what that means but funny)... Then his little conversation with Christian... And leaving the arena in his tights in snowy weather and asked to explain himself for not excepting Goldbergs challenge his response was "Because..."

Sign of the night "HHH is boring"

Line of the Night: Rock "You want to know why the Rock isn't accepting Goldbergs challenge?... Because!"

I really enjoyed this Raw, last week really disappointed me because they did some great shows building to Mania and the day after mania was really lame. But for me they came back on track this week... But I am a bit worried (to put it mildly) having Coach and King. Ewwwk



(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 9.4.03 0402)


cause there's limits to our liberties.
'Least I hope and pray that there are,
cause those liberal freaks go too far.

I'll crush all opposition to me
And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay
If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay
Venom
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.03

Since last post: 2415 days
Last activity: 2385 days
#89 Posted on
Matt> Well, that was a different post...are you the same guy who wrote the first one? You went from insanely pissing me off to getting me to agree with almost everything in your post.

I think the truth is clear...I'm jealous of your fued with Jeb and wanted one of my own...





Hah...hah...hah...hah! YA SCUM!!!
Krankor: The Man, The Myth, The Legend
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
#90 Posted on

    Originally posted by Venom
    Matt> Well, that was a different post...are you the same guy who wrote the first one? You went from insanely pissing me off to getting me to agree with almost everything in your post.

    I think the truth is clear...I'm jealous of your fued with Jeb and wanted one of my own...



We're both probably better composed.

Constantly harp on me about adding ducks to the Satire. Only then will you feel my true wrath.

Weeee...Agreeing to disagree is fun!



Satire 04/07/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.17 gets a 7.87 So...Spike and Wood have Oedipus complexes...riiiiight...
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 5 days
#91 Posted on
I dare not to like RAW.

That means I've got bizalls. But more to the point, I would like to underline the inherent retardation of the "don't watch if you don't like it and don't criticize it at all" sentiment. When you read a movie review, even if the reviewer liked most of the movie, he or she always points out what didn't work. It's just plain more fun to point out what you didn't like, or even hated, over what you did like, or even loved. It makes for better reading. I liked a lot of RAW.

-Woman's match didn't do it for me. If the crowd doesn't get behind it, I don't care if it's Flair/Steamboat, it isn't fun to watch. Plus, say what you will about the ladies but blood on a chick's face makes me want to change the channel. Even if it was an accident. And, lastly Trish's finishing move is so bad that it derails the momentum of a match. Ugh. No...This assessment doesn't mean I hate professional wrestling. It just means that I didn't like the ladies work this week. Sue me. Another complaint about this. Trish and Jazz have met more than the Undertaker & Kane and Rock & Austin and Benoit & Angle combined and multiplied by five hundred and six. I don't care how long ago it was. Please add another woman to this division. Please.

Rating relative to sex: This match was like a beejay that stops when the chick's parents come home. It started out great but didn't pan out for reasons beyond the participants control.

Then...Rock arrived and babbled. They could have done without this. It didn't really establish anything that the announcers couldn't have covered in one sentence with a visual of either Rock or Goldberg arriving.

Then RVD and Kane made weed references that went over the heads of anyone who doesn't smoke weed. Did you know marijuana impairs your judgment? According to recent commercials, it can make you shoot someone or rape someone or get raped by someone. Or in RVD's case, it can make you sign a long-term contract with WWE. (read that over a couple times before you disagree with me)

Then Jazz joined the black panthers...Nothing intersting for me so far tonight...Long called her "playa" with I didn't realize could be applied to women. Long's subtle reaction after doing so reveals that it can't.

Then Rock hit on Trish. The point of this segment is that Jeff Hardy is "finer" than the Rock. Now I ask for 2 non KKK members who can honestly tell me that broken down Gollum-lookin' endoskeleton motherfucker is actually better looking than the Rock. Ahem...Not that I have an opinion on the matter.

Then Jim Ross tries to get us to believe since being fired last week Austin called ESPN and filmed a commercial which was finished and aired in that time span. Yeah...And Debra was askin' for it.

Then Chief Morley beat Willie. Eh. All right. I'm not into corrupt authority figures anymore. Let's move on. I think I'd rather see a porn star gimmick. Oh and there was cheating involved. Anyone notice that? The way everyone went on it's like RVD jobbed to an elbowdrop or something. Wait, he did! Uh...Well...How come if it's the Rock's elbow it's putting someone over, but if it's anyone else's they are being buried.

Rating relative to sex: This match was like sex with a friend's fat sister. It was fun, but you wouldn't want to experience it again. And yet, you know you will.

Then HBK tries to give off the impression that he doesn't hate blacks as he and Booker T ready themselves. Booker then tries to explain that Shawn should put aside his prejudices because Amhed Johnson was not the best representative of the black race to base assertions on. Shawn then explains that if he called Mike Tyson boy he sure isn't afraid of Booker T. If you look in the mirror in this scene, you can see JERICHO AND GOLDBERG FIGHTING FOR REAL! CHRISTIAN VERSUS JEW! IT'S FINALLY HAPPENED!

Then in one of my moments of the night it became Raw is Politics. First, they showed Ivory and Shawn giving condsecending words of encouragement to the troops. Not the ones who are fighting but who's counting. Then JR embarrasses himself by talking about whooping butt as if he hasn't listened to one thing the military directors have been saying for the past month. Lawler covers for him by throwing in the word liberate...Remembering that Lawler fucks little girls kills his credibility though...

Then Raw is Politics continued. Havard kid came out and made a speech making me uncomfortable. Then, the crowd booed him for it, which continued this feeling. Then, he was labelled as unamerican for not supporting the war effort. Then, Steiner became symbolic of America, which made me want to puke. Fortunately, Steiner didn't make any war comments and just did what he does best: wrestled poorly.

Rating relative to sex: This was sex with a nasty-lookin' chick you don't even like. You really regret it and won't tell anyone it happened.

Then Goldberg was shown doing things he probably can't do anymore. Like roll over 60 guys in few months. Still, made him look totally badass.

Then Christian and Rock made me laugh to the point of tears. I'm really going to miss Rocky. This show was so crap without him.

Then Trish kissed Jeff Hardy on his way to a job. Jeff silently wondered why he was just wishing Trish was a burly sailor with a leopard thong and a handlebar moustache. And an eleven inch penis. I can answer that for him. He's homosexual.

Then Rock tried to cover for Jeff Hardy's flubbed spots and inability to get up after bumps. Rock was entertaining as ever in this thing. I used my own e-maj-eye-nation to e-maj-eyne that Jeff Hardy is a good wrestler. At one point Jeff Hardy removed his shirt to expose his Olive Oyl-like physique. Rock won clean. Then Goldberg came out. It was fun, Rock bitched out on the confrontation, Goldberg looked like Mumm-Ra from Thundercats (props to anyone who knows what the hell that is) and Christian got buried. All in the name of PPV. But hell, I enjoyed it.

Rating relative to sex: Like sex with the a semi-attractive girl. Fun, but predictable. The ending was a little confusing.


Then Rock ran away like a bitch.

Then the Dudleys and Kane came out. I'm sorry, but one thing hasn't changed since the brand split. Anything involving a Dudley and almost anything involving Kane means I switch to BET and enjoy a little comic view. It's the only show where black people can call white people who were shot stupid and be lionized for it. Great stuff. Scary, but great. Oh, Raw...Right.

Rating relative to sex: This match was like sex with a virgin. Slow, plodding, and not all that enjoyable. No one seemed to know what they were doing. Kinda seemed pointless.


Then Test and Goldust set up the same segment from last week. Then they did the same segment from last week. Stacy didn't "give any" to Test in a week. I feel sorry for Goldust, who at one point had to "take some" from that augmented oompa loompa Terri.

Then Bischoff came out to Austin's song. This is where the show took a dive for me. I am tired of Jim Ross' being gay for Stone Cold. I am not against the gays, I am against gays who pretend not to be gay. After practically hearing Ross' urethra overflow at the sound of Austin's music, and then seeing the shattered two-timed-at-the-prom look on his face when it was just Bischoff, I am now completely freaked out by Ross and Austin's "friendship". I have never had a male friend who was that into me. I hope I never do. This is weird. No one cares that much about someone they aren't related to or having sex with. It's gross. I want it to stop. Then Ross quits because he can't bear to call the show without seeing the blue-eyed stud he beats his withered hickory stick to every night. And still no one explains what Lita of all people had the presence of mind to cover on Heat in her pitiful commentary. Which is why, if he's hurt, his friends and/or fans would want him to work. Ugh. Such bad, bad television.

Then Goldust beat Steven Richards. I am not prepared to watch Steven Richards in the seventh quarter hour. He's not worthy. This match had no build and no meaning. On the bright side, Goldie resurrected the noggin-knocker.

Rating relative to sex: A handjob. Kinda of just there, nothing to write home about. Pointless, really.

Then Jericho and Triple H remembered that they don't like each other. Nice attention to detail, only it should have been done before the Survivor Series where for some reason they got along famously despite the title being on the line. Flair came off as completely above both of them. Was that intentional.

Then some French guys predicted they'd be hated for being French. Why is America so bent out of shape over the French not supporting them? The Tonight Show mocks them every night. Who cares? They're French. What help could they be? "Ohh...We will surrendur and while they're butt-fucking us with baugette you can attack them from behind!"
Bah. I'm no politician.

Then the main event kicked ass. It ended with Booker T pinning Triple H clean, again. In a tag-match, again. Take what you can get, Book. Then Booker and Shawn Michaels were attacked by a hobbling gorilla, a rock star, and an old man. They are then saved by a hobbling giraffe. It was a fun segment to watch. Jericho took a powerbomb. Nash dyed his hair, and it honestly makes him look a lot younger. Triple H sold fear of a guy who, at the time of his injury, would probably have ended up selling fear of Trips. Oh how times have changed.

Rating relative to sex: The works. This match practically swallowed it was so good.


All in all, this show has a ton of holes in it. I still enjoyed it, but more in the "i love wrestling" way and not so much in the "good show" kind of way.




(edited by Hogan's My Dad on 9.4.03 0412)


"Whatever I just posted above is what your mother said in bed last night."
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#92 Posted on
Chris Hyatte, is that you?

I liked the JR stuff you wrote, so true. I thought he was going to cry. I realize they're friends, but, by god, his worship for Austin makes him look like Smithers to Mr. Burns.
It's bizarre. The logic IS bizarre- "you can't fire him- we want to see him wrestle and do more damage to his neck!"
I'm liking Bischoff as a heel more and more. Driving in the truck to his entrance music? Now, THAT is a heel. Fans were pissed. I think heels need to be more heelish and faces need to be more facish(?). The Guerreros are being pushed as faces because they cheat....WTF? The Rock smiles all the time but is a heel.
Sucka4Success
Weisswurst








Since: 9.4.03

Since last post: 3992 days
Last activity: 3992 days
AIM:  
#93 Posted on
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Chris Hyatte, is that you?

    I liked the JR stuff you wrote, so true. I thought he was going to cry. I realize they're friends, but, by god, his worship for Austin makes him look like Smithers to Mr. Burns.



"Lemme ask you something son, have you ever had that dream when they fly in through the window?" "Bah Gawd!"

Yeah, there's no logic in Ross wanting Austin to continue to wrestle with a bad neck. They tried to cover it by getting across that wrestling is everything to Austin, but it still doesn't make much sense.

I thought Raw was OK, nothing special, but nothing offensive either. The ending left the audience with a few questions, but I'm not sure if I would have used Jeff Hardy with Rock...

Shame that RVD is stuck in the tag division, I'm sure the skits between Van Dam and Rock would be amusing, and the match could be entertaining. Moreso than Jeff.

(edited by Sucka4Success on 9.4.03 0455)
whatever
Lap cheong








Since: 12.2.02
From: Cleveland, Ohio

Since last post: 18 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#94 Posted on
My $.02...

I liked the Jazz/Trish bout, but I also agree the Rube Goldberg Bulldog is aptly named by Keith. That looked painfully contrived on Monday, more so than I have recently seen. Jazz joining Team Teddy is fine with me, I like Teddy Long.

Nowinski was golden on the mic. The Steiner Recliner looks dumb - just move your arms away from around Steiner's legs! Ah well, kinda fits in the "suspension of reality", like a double-powerbomb. And hey, at least this feud is something useful for Steiner and Nowinski.

Rock was quite funny tonight, I enjoyed his time with Christian, Goldberg, and Jeff. Although Jeff looked pathetic, I will give him one thing - HE HIT A SWEET-LOOKING SWANTON tonight, one I haven't seen since he hit the *perfect* swanton on Regal awhile ago.

"What's your friend's name?" "...Christian." Priceless.

As far as Goldust, Test, Stevie, & Victoria, these are pretty servicable midcard feuds that are entertaining. No complaints here.

Before the main event, I was glad to see the note of tension between HHH and Jericho. Wish they would've done the same for HBK/Booker, oh well. 1 out of 2 is pretty darn good for WWE booking.

I guess I can dig the whole HHH/Jericho/HBK/Booker deal right now because of one big detail. BOOKER'S LEG IS INJURED. He is doing a Herculean job of keeping up with HHH with that injury, since both HHH and Jericho were making a note to pinpoint the injury. So I do feel that Booker is looking pretty strong in general through this feud. That said, I am not thrilled at all about Nash's return, especially because of the possible effects it may have on the title picture. My bias is that I want Booker to win the title, and I want him to have the triumphant victory over HHH even with Flair at his side to show that yes, he is THAT talented. Now with Nash, I am worried that he will taint or even prevent that from happening. Time will tell, I can only hope to see Booker pull through. Kudos to all 4 participants in the match, it was pretty good and enjoyable.



I drove the Hummer. Sorry 'bout that.
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 289 days
Last activity: 289 days
#95 Posted on

    Originally posted by HrdCoreJoebr> I honestly don't know how many times someone can say this, but if you don't like the product don't watch. quoteend]







    Considering that 48% of Vince's target audience has followed that advice in the past two years, it might not be the best thing in the world to encourage others to take that route.



    There is only one man left to save Vince McMahon and the WWF/E. Where have you gone Greg Gagne, a nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 7 days
AIM:  
#96 Posted on
The funny part is that, to the "insider" fans, Triple H is putting over his best friend, but to the "casual" fans, Triple H is getting his ass kicked by a half-crippled part-timer who hasn't wrestled regularly since 1998.

-Patrick

(edited by PowerPB13 on 9.4.03 1051)
SamRulezTheWorld
Linguica








Since: 2.3.03

Since last post: 3407 days
Last activity: 2483 days
#97 Posted on

    Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher

    Rock was awesome backstage interacting with everyone, trying to use his lines on Trish, just for her to no sell it. Then calling Jeff a maxi pad (don't know what that means but funny)...



You don't have a girlfriend, do you?

http://www.kotex.com/info/education/girlthing/qa.asp

Knock yourself out.
dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#98 Posted on
Yeeesh, where'd all the love for the Hurricane come from?

The guy has a couple of amusing skits as the sounding board for heel Rock's banter and scores a fluke roll up win and suddenly people are expecting him to run in and clear house in the main event? Whatever.

The guys current gimmick is only ever gonna see him as mid-card comic relief. And hell in the last couple of weeks he's looked decent in a match against HHH and had him some main event time so its not like he's being buried.

And Excalibur, screw Kane, you're satire needs a little more ducks. *runs. hides*



"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard
BOSsportsfan34
Pepperoni








Since: 2.1.03
From: MA

Since last post: 87 days
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
Y!:
#99 Posted on
(deleted by BOSsportsfan34 on 9.4.03 1433)
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3399 days
Last activity: 1819 days
#100 Posted on
Thanks for Spoiling Smackdown for me BOS, Appreciate it

And Sam, I never said I don't know what it IS, I said I don't know what the sentence means. It was kind of a surreal thing to say. But I'm glad you had a MAXI PAD website at your DISPOSAL.





cause there's limits to our liberties.
'Least I hope and pray that there are,
cause those liberal freaks go too far.

I'll crush all opposition to me
And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay
If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay
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Should I watch TNA this week now? I couldn't watch it live because my cable company sucks. I don't care about Hogan, have never heard of Duggan, and Jarrett has yet to get any emotion out of me.
- LotusMegami, TNA Freaking Sucks (Rant) (2003)
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