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22.7.14 2027
The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw thoughts 3/3 (Page 3)
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vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2941 days
Last activity: 154 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
My take:

The Rock has put Raw on his back and said "Here, I'll carry you to WrestleMania." Enjoy it while it lasts.

* Opening segment: Booker talks for a minute. HHH interrupts to say (paraphrased) "You're a nappy-headed loser, your career accomplishments mean nothing, I laughed when I found out I'd be wrestling you, and people like you are so far out of my league that you should just shut up and dance for me." Booker stands there and takes it, responds with (paraphrased) "...Yeah, BUT," and lets HHH leave unmolested.

Um, WHAT?

* Later on, Booker faces Steiner. Booker wins because HHH distracted Steiner. STEINER chases HHH; Booker stands around and does a Spinaroonie.

Um, WHAT?

Now THERE'S how you build up an engaging, heated feud. Next week: Booker gets revenge on HHH by going on a hunger strike.

* Christian/Conflicted was there.

* Chief Morley/Spike was there, and pointless.

* Trish + Jackie/Jazz + Victoria was there, with a sloppily-written ending. "Trish kicked out of my sunset flip, so I'll just sit here on my ass and wait for her to roll me over."

* The Hurricane/Rock encounter was solid, and all Rocky. The look on his face after "small ding-a-ling" was priceless.

* Jericho is dragging a Test-shaped anchor, but they're trying.

* RVD + Kane/Dreamer + Snow... thanks for coming out tonight, Tommy!

* I had no problem with Austin's subdued speech. Given that this is a guy who (a) blatantly walked out on the product and his job (and thus the fans), (b) had his well-publicized domestic-assault incident during his layoff, and (c) saw how warmly the Rock was received after HE vanished for months on end, I'd have worded things carefully, too. This was as close to a "Hey, I f'ed up, I'm sorry" mea culpa as we'll get. Give him a week, and he'll be in everything-but-the-beer ass-kicking mode again.



"...Also, living in NYC, to stop any terrorists from braking into my home I've crammed pickles in the gap between the front door and the floor - try and brake past my juicy green wall of defense." -- commenter on FARK
Battlezone
Potato korv








Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

Since last post: 2052 days
Last activity: 104 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#42 Posted on

    Originally posted by vsp
    Opening segment: Booker talks for a minute. HHH interrupts to say (paraphrased) "You're a nappy-headed loser, your career accomplishments mean nothing, I laughed when I found out I'd be wrestling you, and people like you are so far out of my league that you should just shut up and dance for me." Booker stands there and takes it, responds with (paraphrased) "...Yeah, BUT," and lets HHH leave unmolested.


You know what bugged me about that promo? Isn't the belt that Trip is carrying actually the old WCW belt? And if it is, then doesn't bringing up David Arquette and Vince Russo kinda devalue the same belt that Trip says that Booker doesn't deserve?

So, using circular logic, if the belt is worthless, as Trip puts it, doesn't that mean that his title reign is worthless, and that, in fact, HHH and Booker are indeed on the same level?

Could it be that in his attempt to hold Booker down, he actually managed to hold *himself* down?

That's gotta be SOME kind of record...



"[Phil] Jackson named his kidney stone "Kobe"...because it wouldn't pass."-Page 2
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3169 days
Last activity: 3169 days
#43 Posted on
And what about that guy standing next to HHH? The one he tries to emulate that held that belt more then anyone. But if the belt is worthless, Flair is worthless, and HHH wants to be the new worthless?

The storyline was that Bischoff used the WCW Title belt because of its "history". But now we're supposed to ignore its history and pretend HHH is walking around with a new belt?

At least USE A NEW TITLE BELT then! Either it is the NWA/WCW/World Heavyweight Title or its not, it can't be both.
SKLOKAZOID
Bratwurst








Since: 20.3.02
From: California

Since last post: 18 hours
Last activity: 12 min.
AIM:  
#44 Posted on
I've always been of the belief that the "World Heavyweight Title," as we call it since December of 2001 has always been an entirely different title from the WCW World Title. Simply because WCW, the organization, no longer exists.

It may share the same history as the WCW Title, but it is not the same thing. It's a branch, but if WWE were to ever sell the WCW brand (this would never happen), the WCW Title could be brought back with no acknowledgement of HHH's belt or anything beyond Survivor Series 2001 because WCW has been dormant since then.

dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 14 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#45 Posted on

    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    I've always been of the belief that the "World Heavyweight Title," as we call it since December of 2001 has always been an entirely different title from the WCW World Title. Simply because WCW, the organization, no longer exists.

    It may share the same history as the WCW Title, but it is not the same thing. It's a branch, but if WWE were to ever sell the WCW brand (this would never happen), the WCW Title could be brought back with no acknowledgement of HHH's belt or anything beyond Survivor Series 2001 because WCW has been dormant since then.




And because, in storyline mode, it also incorporates the IC belt.

Regardless, when Booker won it he only had to beat WCW wrestlers. To win it now he would have to beat the best of both the old WWF and WCW. At least on the RAW side of things.



"You dont appreciate a lot of stuff in school until you get older. Little things like being spanked every day by a middle aged woman: stuff you'd pay good money for these days."


One time undisputed Wiener of the day 2.11.02
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#46 Posted on
(deleted by PowerPB13 on 6.3.03 2043)
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 386 days
Last activity: 386 days
#47 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    *shakes head* People are SURPRISED that Triple H would do something like that?

    I'm sorry, I don't know what else to say except that you're idiots.

    I confidently predict that Rock beats Booker T cleanly next week, but Rock chooses to fight Austin anyway.

    -Patrick






But, but, Catchphrase always puts people over. I mean, who can forget the wonders he did elevating Booker in the Summer of 2001. Oh yeah, he made him look like an idiot. Oh wait, Lance Storm's career took off after facing him. Wait, I forgot, it ended with Storm taking a Midget Elbow and having his heat dissipate. Well, at least he did the job to Eddy in a non-title match after Eddy made an emotional appeal about his family. Um, no, Eddy jobbed that night as well.



Ole Anderson booking is a weapon of self inflicted mass destruction.
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#48 Posted on
(deleted by PowerPB13 on 6.3.03 2044)
fuelinjected
Banger








Since: 12.10.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 3169 days
Last activity: 3169 days
#49 Posted on
Rock can't put EVERYONE over but in comparison to other top stars, he's done more then his fair share of jobs.

Booker will never get a fair shake in WWE because from day one he was labelled a WCW guy. As we saw last night, he's still got that label.
Battlezone
Potato korv








Since: 27.2.03
From: Seattle, Washington

Since last post: 2052 days
Last activity: 104 days
AIM:  
Y!:
#50 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    I confidently predict that Rock beats Booker T cleanly next week, but Rock chooses to fight Austin anyway.

    -Patrick



I'll take that action. Want to make a gentlemen's bet? I say Booker beats Rock via interference from Austin. But Rock will still make Booker look good. I don't think they'll drop Book from the title picture just yet.

Although I'm still pretty sure they're heading for a three way at WM with HHH/Booker and someone else, I just can't figure out how they're going to get there.



"[Phil] Jackson named his kidney stone "Kobe"...because it wouldn't pass."-Page 2
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#51 Posted on
(deleted by PowerPB13 on 6.3.03 2045)
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 hours
AIM:  
#52 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    This goddamn company is doomed, isn't it?

    -Patrick

    (edited by PowerPB13 on 4.3.03 1339)



Probably not, no.

I still can't believe how much we're nitpicking last night's show. To wit:

-HHH cut a promo trying to downplay Booker T as an "entertainer" and not a "wrestler", saying that he (by he, I mean his character) doesn't take Booker seriously. Booker completely unfazed says that he's still going to end up beating HHH at Wrestlemania. HHH makes some valid points about the state of the WCW and the WCW title at the end of the company's run, backed up by his manager 16 World Champion Ric Flair (who won most of those titles when WCW was GOOD, mind you. HHH didn't pan the company as a whole, just the last few years).

-Rock did a segment with HURRICANE. Rock doesn't need to be doing a segment with ANYBODY. He could just have easily done both those segments as interviews by himself where he talks about winning the battle royal and facing Steve Austin, but no, he did them both with Shane Helms who has been, at best, a Heat regular. Not only that, but he let Helms get over on him verbally, something which it has always been Rock's gimmick that he is very good at. Nobody is better at the put down than The Rock, but now suddenly this jobber from Heat is out insulting him. That doesn't get Hurricane a little more over?

-Steve Austin came out and cut the promo that fans wanted to hear. It may not have been the promo that you wanted to hear, but it certainly was one that I did. He went out there and said, "You know what, even when I fucked up, the fans still were there for me and I appreciate that, now I'm ready to give something back to you." That's EXACTLY what I wanted to hear from Steve Austin. Not in some magazine article, but right there on TV. Then he threw out the kickwhamstunners...It may be boring to you, but I think then, that you are in the minority.



Satire 03/03/03 (wienerboard.com) <- No kidding, right?
Buffy 7.16 gets a 7.65372 Andrew is funny, but I'm not sure that we needed "The Andrew Episode".
FurryHippie
Frankfurter








Since: 29.10.02
From: New York

Since last post: 2887 days
Last activity: 1575 days
AIM:  
#53 Posted on

    Originally posted by PowerPB13
    From last night, the path is clear: To make Booker T look as inept as humanly possible going into WrestleMania. I'm wondering about the odds on Triple H dropping the "N" word at some point in the next few weeks, seriously.


What happened to the days when you were gonna ask for CRZ to ban you? I have no problem with 99% of this board, but I am so goddamn sick of people who refuse to give anything a chance. The path is most definitely NOT clear.

I like how you said "this company is doomed, isn't it?". Hey genius, the Booker/Rock match didn't happen yet. If Booker wins, I want you coming on this site to tell us how happy you are. Cause honestly, if you EVER admit that something went right, I would be totally shocked.



ahem....

BOO-yah!
PowerPB13
Morcilla








Since: 25.4.02
From: Belleville, IL USA

Since last post: 6 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
AIM:  
#54 Posted on
(deleted by PowerPB13 on 6.3.03 2046)
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
#55 Posted on
I wouldn't say that Booker was unfazed by HHH's comments. Unfazed would have been an improvement. HHH came out and essentially said that Booker was an "nappy-haired", unworthy loser with no worthy accomplishments in his career and yet was all but singlehandedly responsible for putting a company out of business and is only fit to dance for people on command. And the response they craft for the guy who is supposed to be the #1 challenger to the title and the only man left to go into the top Raw spot at the biggest show of the year was a resigned "Well, I guess you're probably right about some of that", before later winning a match only after HHH came back to, for whatever reason, save him from losing to a submission move.

Why?

There's being an enjoyably smug heel and there's making the guy you're in there with look like a chump. Telling your opponent that you'll "never make it in this business, but you've got a lot of guts!" when we have every reason to believe that the guy will make it in the business and the guy saying it is counting down the days until he gets the crap kicked out of him by a bigger and badder opponent is one thing. Tearing away the accomplishments that are supposed to make your opponent an equal, making him look like a complete idiot who doesn't deserve to be on your level and can't do anything about it and having him clam up or even go so far as to have to validate the verbal assassination you just did on him is something else entirely.

There's precedent for this, and just over a year ago at that. When HHH won the Royal Rumble and came out to meet First Ever Undisputed Cham-peen Chris Jericho, the same thing happened. Instead of Jericho being in the driver's seat, it was HHH who said that Jericho had until Wrestlemania to prove that he was worthy of defending that title against HHH.

HHH (then a face, so he's done it on both sides of the coin), via CRZ, January 21, 2002: "...I see it like this, Chris Jericho: you have two months. Two months to prove to the world that this...this is not a fluke. That you are not a joke. That you are the man, that you deserve to have everything that you have. You have two months to prove to the world that you are a living legend, two months to prove to the world that you are larger than life, but Chris Jericho, you have only got two months, because in two months' time, it will be WrestleMania. And if you make it to WrestleMania as the Undisputed World Wrestling Federation Champion, unfortunately for you, at WrestleMania, for you...it will be time...to play...The Game."


From that moment on, any legitimacy that Jericho had gained in his matches with Rock and the "I am NOT a joke" interview was gone, because he spent the rest of the build to Wrestlemania chaperoning Stephanie and walkin' dogs and scoopin' poop. It was obvious that he wasn't going to be able to prove himself worthy and where it was going.

Bah. Man, at least let Booker point out that he beat Nash for the belt, too. Or something other than say that yes, the title reigns that have defined his WWE character were actually shams and that he was somehow the guy who drove a whole company out of business by being unworthy and that he's only good for dancing on command and that HHH is the best in the history of all ever. Let him keep or get back some dignity so the crowd isn't stuck not knowing how to react to him later in the night. If the opening promo on him had been effective and good heel work, the crowd should have been much more supportive of Booker when he came out for the other segment on the show.

Anyway, the Austin/Rock face-off was a bit of a disappointment, but mostly through bad planning. Austin was suitably emotional when he got to talk and Rock was terrific when he came out and warned Austin with that great line about how the people will turn on him if he ever gets successful. What didn't work was that everyone was dying to hear Austin's reply to that, to have him finally get to tear into somebody, but that's when they sent Bischoff out to muddle things and just kind of end it on an odd note and little payoff. It was like when Nitro or Thunder used to fade out in the middle of a beatdown or before a match really ended and leave us hanging. Rock frantically avoiding the Stunner at the end (did he always look that tall?) turned it back into something good, though.

I do kinda wish Austin had managed to sneak past the lines of defense by wearing a disguise, like the Austin of old used to do. Still, Bischoff spelling out his three lines of defense made it look like Austin was trying free Serpentor from GI Joe headquarters, so that's a plus for me.

And the Rock/Hurricane stuff is good beyond just being funny (it did kinda go a bit long last night, though - but compared to the majority of what they had going on, that's a blessing) in general. If it was Crash Holly or Spike Dudley or some other supposed nobody, it would just be wacky skits. But Hurricane is serving as Rock's conscience, he's "The People" who Rock is trying to alienate, embodied as a WWE superstar. They're giving us the character development of Rock moving along down the heel path through his interaction with a guy who wants the superhero Rock and hates the movie star Rock. It's pretty damn nifty. Plus, come on, Rock screaming out lines that nobody remembers from his movie as if it's a beloved catch phrase and the look he gave at the end, as if Hurricane had actually flown away? That's as funny as anything intentionally done on Raw in a long time. I'm happy with that.
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 3907 days
Last activity: 3793 days
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.74
re: Booker - HHH

Am I the only one who thinks they're going to great pains to set up the WM swerve, as opposed to really setting up the match?

Meaning, that with Orton & Batista out, I get this awful feeling Steiner will get involved in the match at WM -- on Hunter's side (and cause Booker to lose in the process).

I'd be ecstatic if it turns out I'm wrong, but all that running up the ramp usually leads to that type of lazy Russo-esque writing. ("These guys are injured, Steiners flopping as a face, let's plug him in the heel stable!")

What kills me is that Booker's the one who'll suffer (much like Jericho before him).


Davros
Blutwurst








Since: 22.8.02
From: Between thought and Reality, TZ

Since last post: 2566 days
Last activity: 2560 days
#57 Posted on
All in all, RAW was good. I just can't help but be disturbed by HHH's promo. Yeah it was good blah blah blah, but jeez, Nappy headed, dance for me... it's embarrassing and a bit disheartening. If the result is Book going over, then it all seems worth it. Otherwise, it's more lowbrow insulting garbage that has no place on TV. Oh but wait, don't let the mooks hear that.



"Don't hate the Playa, hate the Game!"
sergeial
Boerewors








Since: 27.2.02
From: Minneapolis

Since last post: 2945 days
Last activity: 2861 days
#58 Posted on

    Originally posted by drjayphd
    Was I the only one that wasn't bothered by HHH's opening promo


In a word, no. Most of the people who posted on this thread weighed in on whether they liked or hated the HHH/Booker promo, and the negative posters are greatly outnumbered:

Con:
Venom
dskillz
vsp
Battlezone
fuelinjected
PowerPB13
Davros
Dr Unlikely

Pro:

HrdCoreJoe
Mr Heel II
Ol Fuzzy Bastard
InVerse
The 5th Horseman
drjayphd
Net Hack Slasher
NEO
Ringmistress
SKLOKAZOID
Dagen 913
Excalibur05
and me...

Excalibur05 expressed best how I feel about this angle so far.

Not that being in the majority makes us right--this is decidedly a matter of personal taste, and also of our expectations. I think that most of us would reverse our opinion if the outcome of the Booker/HHH match ends up being the opposite of what we expect.

sergei



"I tear my quadracep all the time! I tore it this morning, I'm fine!"-- Kurt Angle
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3656 days
Last activity: 3125 days
AIM:  
#59 Posted on
Fuckin' wahhh, wahhh, wahhh. I've said it before, some of you people wouldn't be satisfied by anything that Raw puts on. Vince could send your favorite Diva down to personally suck your dicks while stabbing HHH with a screwdriver and you'd still bitch.

HHH pulls out one of his best-written, best-delivered promos last night, saying NOTHING that hasn't been said by the announcers or the other talent about both WCW and Booker, and you're complaining because THE ARROGANT HEEL DARED TO BELITTLE HIS FACE OPPONENT. Hey, wait, didn't the Rock and Jericho do that later tonight with their respective opponents? Oh, I forgot. That doesn't count because they aren't HHH, and it's HARD to be consistent.

They make what'll likely shape up to be a hell of an entertaining match next week, with a newly fresh and funny Rock versus an on-the-rise-to-the-main Booker T, which will most likely be at the very least a shitload better than anything Raw's presented for a long while, and you piss and moan all over yourselves because you've deluded yourselves into thinking they're going to yank Rocky out of his feud with Austin to have a heel-heel match vs. Triple H at Wrestlemania for NO FUCKING REASON other than you're bitter and smarky.

And, of course, you pull out the hypocritical "wife-beater" shit, because you're completely lily-white and pure and have never, ever done anything stupid in your lives.

Read a book or something useful next Monday night, and spare the reasonable folks the hassle of slogging through all this bitter, pointless, hypocritical bitching.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
count olaf
Goetta








Since: 15.7.02

Since last post: 3397 days
Last activity: 3393 days
#60 Posted on

    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    How long until Catchphrase disappears, so I can watch the show without half hour breaks inserted


So after all you've read here about how spectacular Rock has been over the past 2 weeks (and you seem to be the only exception- to me this is the closest to unanimity I've seen here), you're still going to stubbornly ignore his matches and promos?
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Well, they managed to keep the Rumble intriguing until the end of the second match. The battle royale itself was pointless unless you are a fan of hearing YOUR world champion whimper like a baby for however long that lasted.
Related threads: (RAW) It's the Dwayne and Shane Show! - WWE Raw- February 24, 2003 - Raw Thoughts: In progress, et al... - More...
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