Triple H verbally burying Booker not 1 minute into their fued isn't a promising start. I have no ideal what this accomplished, other than making Booker look like a huge loser. I would've gone with the double meaning retort by having Booker point out that Triple H only got to the top by "marrying" Stephanie and sucking up to Vince. Hopefully, Rock can work his "get anyone over" magic next week.
As a complete juxtapostion to Hunter, you've got Rock putting over FREAKIN' Hurricane two weeks in a row and actually getting the guy to draw face heat. I ask all the Triple H defenders, why can't Triple H do that?
The wrestling was all okay, and the Rock brings the entertainment factor way up, so it balances out to a good show...
Was I the only one that wasn't bothered by HHH's opening promo? I thought it was fine, assuming Booker T's gonna win at WM. Build Booker up as this "underdog" who's much better than his opponent will give him credit for, then have him win convincingly, but not a squash. The racial overtones? Well, they were there in a way, but I think it was more HHH not respecting Booker T as a person than racism. Course, I could be wrong.
As for the end promo, it sets up Booker T winning over the Rock, and Bischoff serving up Austin for the Rock in order to placate him and keep him on Raw. He could get a title shot, but won't, and that's because Booker's gonna win.
The Long Island shows always seem very heatless to me and this time is no exception, I don't know if it's the crowd or the sound in the arena. Even Rock/Austin didn't have that buzz around it, something like this I thought the crowd should be extra jacked for everything... Maybe they wasted all their energy "whating" the National Anthem AGAIN like I read on a report. From what I remember it was Long Island that was reported to "whated" loudly the first time around and now Again. Errr.
-HHH/Booker interview- It really was tip toeing that line, but I don't think it crossed it. HHH really did a good job belittling Booker and giving him some sympathy. Booker needs to win at WrestleMania or that sympathy will become apathy.
-Christian vs. Jeff Hardy- Major OUCH on Christian dropping Jeff on the robes and Jeff falling on his head. A good match, this was a real good way to start off the wrestling part of the show, nice grab on the rope by Christian blocking the Twist of Faith Jeff is getting much better. But he lost again is he officially conflicted once again.
-Morley vs. Spike- First these stipulations make no sense, he made a rule that was all favor Spike if he wins but nothing negative against Spike if he loses, what the hell is the point. Morley took this easier then I thought.
-Trish/Jackie v. Victoria/Jazz- Nice double bulldog by Trish to start off. An awesome looking dropkicks by Jazz on Jackie. Why does Jackie role to tag Trish when she was right there? Nice original finish, Tirsh with a perfect bridge. Good match all girls looked really ON tonight. To bad Jerry "the Pig" Lawler calls the hot tag "puppies" and calls the bridge rollup "puppies". I hate Lawler... On the Molly subject, I would rather have Molly in there, she's not established as a face, but it's nice to start somewhere. She's a better wrestler then Jackie and I think has obviously more potential to get over by hanging around Trish.
-Jericho vs. Test- Test tells Stacy to stay in the back,(uh oh) Heatless match. Pretty uneventful match, bunch of heel double teaming not much memorable stuff, it was one of those 4 minute matches that seem to be longer because there was so much nothing going on... The Stacy attack is a bit much already, I was okay with it last week but enough! HBK comes in and getting whacked was the only highlight of the segment (not because I hate HBK, it's because I liked that spot)
-Nowinski interview- chased away by the Dudleyz. Now that was pointLESS.
-Booker vs. Steiner- Bad match, it consisted of chops and slaps. I guess they felt that the chop was the only move the fans were reacting at all tonight so they both went for it for about 80& of the match. Real Sloppy rollup for the pin.
-RVD/Kane vs. Dreamer/Snow- Tommy and Al made up? I guess F view wasn't on for that. A 2 minute hardcore match, they rushed through everything. Cool looking 5star by RVD on both Tommy & Al though.
-Austin returns- Glass breaks and I'm happy, It's great to see Austin on TV. Rock interrupts and cut his promo on Austin I really want to see this feud, the crowd again in it but not over the top into it, very strange... As for the stipulation for next week, I see Booker win with tons of run in's but a Booker win nonetheless.
-other stuff- Rock/Hurricane, not as good as last week, I think it went a little long, and I really didn't like Rock talking to the crowd ie "not funny", "don't laugh at the Rock jokes" when the crowd wasn't actually reacting what he said. I think The Rock was expecting something like last week that the crowd was laughing out loud hard for everything coming out of both their mouths. But there were some real funny stuff like Hurricane hiding behind the curtain (I called it. but still funny). My eyes must be messed up I swore I saw Golddust camouflage on the side of the sofa when Rock was playing his guitar when Bischoff came in... Speaking of Golddust, thanks for coming. There was a lot of that tonight.
Looking at my recap, I seemed to be more entertained then I should have. Because I didn't like too much stuff while writing down on paper. I'm guessing the anticipation of Austin kept my interest level up. I liked the opening match and I liked the women's match, the rest of the matches were pretty sub par. I hate to harp on the crowd, but the crowd didn't give the show any favors at all.
Line of the Night: Rock to Hurricane "How long were you behind that curtain?"
Was mentioned Three times, 3X, 3X. In the "Great Wieners" thread!
UNINTENTIONALLY HILARIOUS MOMENT OF THE NIGHT: JR, in full shill mode, wailing on and on against Chris Jericho. (And I'm heavily paraphrasing here...) "By god, what kind of man beats on a woman!? Slobberknocker! Yeah, that makes you real tough guy. And later tonight - STONE COLD! STONE COLD! STONE COLD!")
I'm glad somebody else caught that too.
I think JR just had an off night. He made a dumb-ass comment there and then he made that "Brother?" comment during the HHH promo which was stupid. I think HHH did a great job or dancing around it, til JR turned into Tony Schiavone or whatever. Triple H has said "brother" before, I've realized that most atheletes do. May have something to do with comradery.
Anyway those two comments stood out the most. If CRZ would come through with the recaps again, we'd have every stupid comment JR made last night and then some.
"NOW YOU GET YOUR WHININ ASS OUTTA HERE!!" Sid Vicious after slapping Bret Hart
Originally posted by fuelinjectedBut you have no problem cheering on a man convicted for ARMED robbery?
To be fair, that was when he was a teenager.
and he did his time. He paid his price. That's why we have a criminal justice system. Same reason I don't have a problem with West Wing, same reason I am able to watch the lakers, same reason I am able to buy a car from GM. We have laws, we have a court system, and the ones that get caught, get justice (or some form of it). At the end of that, they start over (or should). I'm willing to give a man a chance who is willing to start over.
I enjoyed Raw a lot last night. Book was great, Rock was great, the 'Cane was great, and god help me, Trips was great. And I even enjoyed Jericho, as much as I tried not to.
- Booker T's spinning sunset-flip finisher absolutely sucked. Unless he can hit the Harlem Hangover, he doesn't deserve the title.
- I see Jericho/HBK as the Mania match of the night.
- I can't see the Booker T/Triple H match at Mania being any good. Neither guy is as mobile as he used to be. Jericho/Triple H wasn't good last year and Jericho is better than Booker. They better put Rock/Austin on last at Mania.
In fairness, Booker's up-over-sunset flip move usually looks better than it did last night. The fact that he was wrestling a guy with all the flexibility of a brick probably had more to do with how awkward it looked than anything.
"next to of course god america i love you land of the pilgrims' and so forth oh say can you see by the dawn's early my country tis of centuries come and go and are no more what of it we should worry in every language even deafanddumb thy sons acclaim your glorious name by gorry by jingo by gee by gosh by gum why talk of beauty what could be more beaut- iful than these heroic happy dead who rushed like lions to the roaring slaughter they did not stop to think they died instead then shall the voice of liberty be mute?"
I went to Raw last night, so let me just throw in a few things...
First, in regards to Molly's "face turn" - maybe I missed something, but I got there for Heat and there was no face turn at all - no Molly at all. Is there a show they do BEFORE Heat?
skorpio17: "- Booker T's spinning sunset-flip finisher absolutely sucked. Unless he can hit the Harlem Hangover, he doesn't deserve the title."
So he misses the move once and he doesn't deserve a title? By the way, it might have something to do with Steiner, take a look into that one.
Net Hack Slasher: "The Long Island shows always seem very heatless to me and this time is no exception, I don't know if it's the crowd or the sound in the arena. Even Rock/Austin didn't have that buzz around it, something like this I thought the crowd should be extra jacked for everything... Maybe they wasted all their energy "whating" the National Anthem AGAIN like I read on a report. From what I remember it was Long Island that was reported to "whated" loudly the first time around and now Again. Errr. "
To be fair, you have to realize that we ALL don't WHAT during the national anthem, and we ALL don't sit on our hands all night. I hate reading this stuff because everytime I drive from Staten Island to Long Island, I go to have a good time. It frustrates me hearing everybody just say "oh they suck". For everybody that screamed "WHAT" during the anthem, there were 100 people who didn't. In fact most of the noise was due to people telling the WHATers to shut their mouths.
One thing you're wrong with though - with Austin/Rock, everybody was on their feet, and especially when they got face to face, the bulbs were flashing and the chants were-a-flying. There was a buzz in the air for Austin/Rock, it's easier to sense when you're actually there where the buzz is happening.
Raw was a so-so show for me. Not quite as goos as last week. Let me break down my highlights in order...
*Tons of pipe-slapping palm vignettes by Bichoff's henchmen
*Test still being an ass
*HHH pissing me off (That was a truly cruel promo) in the "I hope Booker bloodies his ass at WM" way. When I say that's a cruel promo, I mean it was so... cruel. I understood how he handled it without sounding racist, by making the difference between "competitors" and "entertainers". So, in pissing me off, he did a good promo there. Booker should've popped him one, LOL.
*Austin getting away with "WWF". If only they'd act like the WWF.
*Rocky and Hurricane sitting in a tree... This segment was still a bit long, but it wasn't BORING.
*What is boring? A pissed off Test, and no Randy Orton.
*Me, feel sorry for Stacy? Sorry, but you DID start it!
*Rock-Austin III. Okay, but I'll be watching Angle-Lesnar. And Booker T bloodying HHH's ass. And Y2J retiring Shawn's ass.
*Y2J is still MARVELOUS! Hit him again!
*The women are still superb.
Well that's RAW from my perspective. The crowd noise was unbelievably low, and I'm blaming the sound guy more than the crowd. If you can hardly hear the crowd, how can you get into the show? So-so RAW, but from a formatting kind of perspective, nothing like last week.
Hi, I'm the Ringmistress and I have a crush on the IWC's most hated man. Do strait jackets come in one size fits all?
Originally posted by FurryHippieFirst, in regards to Molly's "face turn" - maybe I missed something, but I got there for Heat and there was no face turn at all - no Molly at all. Is there a show they do BEFORE Heat?
No, I meant last week's Heat - the one that aired on Sunday.
"It's like you lost your keys in the garage, but you look for them in the living room because the light is better." -Bill Maher, on the impending war in Iraq
I'm still trying to figure out the 'Spike Dudley fought valiantly but had the odds stacked against him' idea put forth by JR. From what I saw, it was actually a 1 on 1 match with a clean ending. How long until Catchphrase disappears, so I can watch the show without half hour breaks inserted? RVD should go talk to Stacy and get advice on how to actually sell an injury. Slightly off topic, but if the Dudleys are indefinately suspended, how did they have a match with Orton and Batista? This is what happens when they don't follow the kayfabe policy. Until proven otherwise, I still believe Booker's getting screwed out of the title match at Mania.
Ole Anderson booking is a weapon of self inflicted mass destruction.
Slightly off topic, but if the Dudleys are indefinately suspended, how did they have a match with Orton and Batista? This is what happens when they don't follow the kayfabe policy.
Usually, they try to defend booking of this nature by saying that they signed the contract verses whomever prior to the suspension, and are being made to honour it. See 1993, Ric Flair loser leaves WWF match w/ Mr. Perfect.
Originally posted by Parts UnknownAt least Rock is developing his character a bit. Why must we always be stuck with THEOLD Stone Cold? Is that what the sheep demand?
Well, I think it's boring.
The worst part: Austin totally overshadowed everything on the show. The fans sat on their hands for anything not Rock or Austin related. Ultimately, how does that improve anything?
I disagree. I think The Rock totally overshadowed everything on the show. Austin's return was hyped all night, true, but that's the WWE hype machine, the ones who suck the life out of every angle that could possibly be great.
I can't believe what they've done with Austin to blow his return. Firstly, at the end of January, they tease his return on RAW and don't deliver. Then, they tease it in the weeks leading up to the PPV and he doesn't return. He finally shows up at the PPV, but doesn't get on the mic to trash talk Bischoff about why he fired him in WCW, and instead just beats him up and leaves. Fun match, bad angle.
Then, the night after Austin makes his return, they don't put him on RAW and instead decide to save him for next week. That was an incredibly stupid move, but The Rock made it worthwhile. Finally, this week, Austin is guaranteed to show up, and gets a 30 second sappy "Thank you" interview before they screwed it up again.
We don't want Austin to Stunner everyone in sight-- well, we do, but we mainly want to see Austin talk about "that nancy boy Rock's silly little intro," we want Austin to raise hell and cause chaos and not just talk about how he's going to do it. It's like they've been trying to ruin his character since the end of the InVasion.
Austin's return was a temendous disappointment, but I still can't blame him for it. He wasn't even given a chance to retort because Bischoff showed up.
We want 15 minutes of just Austin and Rock in a ring on the mic. That alone would build the anticipation for their WM match.
EDIT: Oh, yeah. The rest of the show. Well, it sucked, but the Booker/HHH promo at the beginning was worth noting.
I thought this was actually one of HHH's stronger heel promos and really made him out to be someone completely dispicable without him talking about how he's beaten Austin, The Rock, and retired Foley. That said, when it came time for Booker T to retort, all he could do was talk about how right HHH is (which brings me back to the ol' Buh Buh Ray "HHH, you're a great wrestler and you've beaten everyone and you could obviously kick my ass, but I want to challenge you to grace me with your presence in the ring.") and that ruined the promo right there.
Did he go too far with the racial undertones? His comments can be taken both ways, assuming by "guys like you," he didn't mean "midcarders with darker skin." But, it really seemed like he did.
If HHH has indeed set his sights on putting Booker T over, and WWE is serious about creating some new stars, they should really start working on giving Booker T more momentum. Pairing him up with The Rock next week was a great idea, but we'll see where that goes. It's entirely possible that Rock wins and challenges Austin right there, thus confirming that HHH's title is worthless and Booker T isn't on Rock's level.
Once again, HHH makes his future opponent look like a goof even before the fued begins. It would be nice if HHH took some notes from The Rock of how to build up your opponent. The Rock has built up Hurricane in 2 weeks when WWE has buried him for months and months.
If this is how HHH is going to interact with Booker until 'Mania it is going to be very hard for the crowd to believe that Booker has a real chance of beating HHH or taking him seriously. But oh well, that is how it works with HHH.
January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
By the way, I think the first crowd to WHAT the National Anthem was the Continental Airlines Arena, in Jersey, not the Coliseum. But still....
Long Island skanks......now, do I still have to boo if what he says is true?
As for Triple H's promo, I thought it was great. And he explained that what he meant by "your kind of people" was guys who go out on TV just to entertain, not be athletes or competitors. Maybe he brushed up against the line at first, but he backed off.
The Rock/Hurricane skit was so transparent in what it was....an attempt to milk the success of last week. I thought it went on too long and just dragged in places. It started off great, though, with Rock discovering Hurricane behind the curtain and all that.
Originally posted by dskillzThe Rock has built up Hurricane in 2 weeks when WWE has buried him for months and months.
Can someone please explain to me how The Rock has "built up" Hurricane? I mean, I enjoyed the skits as much as anyone else, but let's call a spade a spade. They've been in two comedy skits together, and they did a comedy spot in the middle of a 20-man match that the cameramen almost missed. I don't see where this "rub" is. Once you put 'Cane back in the ring, he's in the same spot he was before.
Now if Rock were to make 'Cane look like a million bucks in a match, then we can talk about Rock building up the Hurricane. Until then, I think it's a tad premature.
And speaking of which, given most people's opinion of Gewirtz and his gang of sitcom writers, the LAST thing you should want is for this stuff to go over like gangbusters. Judging by the crowd response the last couple of weeks, I'm sure we'll see more "comedy" skits by people that have nowhere near the talent to pull it off as Rock and 'Cane.
"[Phil] Jackson named his kidney stone "Kobe"...because it wouldn't pass."-Page 2
The fact that Rock is in a skit with Hurricane, putting him over on Byte This, treating him with respect, not as a joke, is building him up. Rock has enough stroke to tell the writers that 'Cane is just not on his level or make sure that he makes 'Cane look like a goof. But he has not done either. That is elevating talent, building a character. Now in the ring, Rock is going to have give 'Cane some offense, and give him some near falls as well to compliment the work he has already done.
January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
Originally posted by redsoxnationI'm still trying to figure out the 'Spike Dudley fought valiantly but had the odds stacked against him' idea put forth by JR. From what I saw, it was actually a 1 on 1 match with a clean ending.
It was the "big-bad-Val against the mini-dudley angle
Originally posted by redsoxnationRVD should go talk to Stacy and get advice on how to actually sell an injury.
amen. And from Lil' Spike. Did you see him sell the crap out of that top rope hangover the rest of the match! Now it might have hurt (it looked a bit awkward), but he sold it to death for the rest of the match. RVD? Singapore cane on the rolling thunder. Pop back up. eh.
I think Vince Mcmahon was asked about storyline inaccuracies a couple years ago in an interview, and he replied that WWE expects it's fans to give them creative liberties, since it provides for more entertaining possibilities and match ups.