I'll start off with the women, and what a turnaround they made and thank goodness for that. I thought the promo helped a whole lot. Heel-Molly belittling all of what Trish has done and said she's only got to be champ by sleeping her way. With face-Trish come back with "I've been working hard for a couple of years, these fans see it(wait for pop..GOT IT.. continue, good girl.lol)If you can't see it screw you, i felt bad calling you names but seeing how you are I'm gladly kick your fat ass" (of course I'm paraphrasing ) ... i really disagree bucs, I thought the fans bought into it, and the first time in Weeks, We heard Trish getting good cheers and Molly boos in the promo and in the match. Too bad it took them an entire month to figure the Molly's a fat ass was not getting over in any aspect. This was a welcome change.
As for the match, the match was amazing. Did notice Molly wasn't too happy being Jackie partner, but Vince made the match what could she do. After the promo they started fast,and the crowd was in it. Trish is soo good, amazng hip toss on Jackie. The block/punch/block/punch with Trish and Molly was perfect and looked great. Loved seeing Trish doing doubleteam moves with Linda like the axhandle off the top. During slower parts when the heels were slowing the pase, Trish was outside clapping to get the fans involved (and after 30 seconds it worked and got a hot tag) We saw the Stratusphere on Jackie and Stratusfaction on Molly... Very good heel stuff and flashy face moves. Trish looked as awesome as ever, Molly looked like a real heel that she hasn't had in a month , Linda is real unique, that long athletic look adds a differnet mix to the division, and looks like she mixes well with shorter girls, Linda give a long leg kick on one girl while keeping the headlock on another, looked cool. Jackie might be the less impressive of all, but NOT so bad that she looked out of place. She did fine. Her climbing the ropes looked awkward I just thought timing was off, Linda was supposed to push Molly onto the ropes.
-Opening segment was interesting, I liked the Vince speech
-Spike/Bradshaw v. Nowinski/Regal - Nowinski looks like he could be something, I like the shoot gimmick, the announcers seem to be playing him up really well.
-Bubba v. Eddie - a minute, whaat?... - Dreamer v. Raven - They give an effort the fans didn't seem to care until the end. I was expecting something more intence, again very short.
-Jeff Hardy v. Undertaker - I want to get behind Jeff. but he just gets creepier and creepier and not the good/fun creepy like Goldust. But an annoying creepy. Jeff gets squashed by the dead man... I guess the Hardyz promo was good because I understood what they said
-Goldust backstage was legit Laugh out loud funny, showpopotimous, greasy rat, funny stuff, X-pac standing there like a dumb stunned animal for a while was too much and the pay off was great...BookDust v.Showpopotimous / Rattpac - Hell they build it up well enough I was hooked, Goldust broncoBuster on X-pac was sureal, and I actually thought Booker was legit laughing at that sight. They made Book look real strong and he's friends with a guy who means well but not the athlete that Book is.
Lesner v. RVD - I'm not in the Lesner is crap camp, but I never really like anyone getting a forced push. I think comparing him to Goldberg is unfair, Brock is so much better then Goldberg. I admit I have a bais against big men, but Brock is one of the better big man I've seen in a long time. It was a good mix of highflying vs. power, and mixed pretty well. There were so hard shots going in, and I don't know why usually I'll bitch about it but I didn't mind the screw job ending.
Quote of the night "Showpopotimous"
All in all I thought it was a fine show. The last 3 matches I was really into it. The first hour and a quarter it looked like they were throwing a lot of stuff out there and see what works. Interesting that the women match was longer then ALL 4 men matches that came before it. And in those 5 minutes the women had the fans attention as good or better then the men before them, they (Trish/Molly especially) deserved it. And the Dust/Book w/ Pac/show backstage was one of the funniest things I've seen on RAw
(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 25.6.02 0423) I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
Originally posted by Masked Anyway, one thing I notice on these forums that I just don't get--Booker T. and Goldust, in their current gimmicks, will NEVER be main eventers.
Booker T can surely make it as this gimmick. However, not every champ has to appear on Regis & sidekick..though I do think that he could show up there, raise the roof and then have an intelligent conversation. Goldust, as you said isn't meant to be a champion. Just a fun guy who delivers solid stuff.
Another thing I still wonder about is WHY Vince runs his mouth about elevating new talent when he obviously isn't trying. RAW has one man that could give the rub to anyone on the program--UT. But UT is just screwing around with Jeff Hardy, completely burying his career in the process. Why not have UT fighting RVD? It gives RVD the rub, and it makes the fans say "Hey, RVD can beat the Undertaker, he can beat all the big guys."
If Taker fights Jeff Hardy and gets fans to get into this "new" Jeff Hardy then he is giving people the rub. If Jeff makes stuff hard for the Taker then this will mean more people will buy into any 'wow, Jeff CAN compete with the big guys' angle.
If they have him fight RVD, it won't give a big rub to RVD anymore. Unless he beats him and wins the title. I like this 'damn these pesky kids, I'm gonna kill them' stuff more than if Taker and RVD go back and forth for a bit.
Instead they have Lesnar and RVD at the top so they can blame THEM if the ratings suck.
Or...instead they try to push 3 'new' guys to higher levels (Hardy, Brock, RVD) and you complained about not pushing anyone? *grin* Ofcourse it's all just a matter of opinion of who they push and how..
"...And I use that to fuck them some place fairly uncomfortable." "What, like the back of a volkswagen ?" -Mallrats
Originally posted by ChumpstainI'm getting into Chris Nowinski, it must be the extra year he's had to learn but he seems to fit in a lot better than the other Tough Enough grads did at first. I can watch him out there wrestling and it doesn't seem shocking to see him beating Spike and Bradshaw, he's got the look and seems to have enough skill to back it up
don't forget that he was trained by Killer Kowalski before going to tough enough in the first place.
the women's tag match ruled all kinds.
goldust was making me LOL like Christian was a couple years ago! Danger Danger Danger Booker! Dustin was always kind of boring but when he puts on the gold paint, it's like he becomes someone else! he's being a great role player right now, and even his wrestling seems to be improving.
I thought that bringing Russo back would be the death of both the CW and Women's div's but apparently he is just being paid not to work ( i.e. not to publish his book or be a consultant to any other fed.) He did in his time have a few good ideas and filtered through everyone else he was semi useful at one time, just NEVER EVER give him any kind of creative control again.
"My parents said I could be anything, so I became an ASSHOLE!"
CRZ NOTABLE QUOTABLE OF THE MONTH: KANE: Triple H...tonight, I will burn the flesh from your body! MICHAEL COLE: OH MY GOD. KANE THREATENING TRIPLE H, SAYING HE'S GONNA BURN THE FLESH FROM HIS BODY! CRZ: Umm, I heard it the FIRST time! -- WWF Smackdown, 9/9/99
Live notes: The upper deck was curtained off, and I was also surprised how dark it was in the arena. Low attendance in general, the crowd was mostly set over to one side for the cameras to catch.
Dark matches - Crash & Steven Richards vs. The Island Boys - cool to finally see the Boys, they looked good in action. ? and ? vs. Jason Sugarman & Mike Sanders - I was just happy to see Mike Sanders. LOTS of boring chants.
Pretty dead crowd overall except for a really good "ASSHOLE" chant for McMahon and "X-Pac sucks!" I was surprised there wasn't more reaction for Booker T, but there was a really good response for RVD. The crowd also loved the Goldust/Booker video as well. VERY faint "E-C-dub" chants for Dreamer and Raven.
Originally posted by ThreepMeRey is coming back with the mask and all is right with the world again.
Well, all is right with the United States. He'll get egged in the streets if he goes back to Mexico after putting the mask back on; that just isn't DONE in lucha libre.
Well, I got Rey Rey's back...cuz we busted a cap on Mexico in the World Cup, so if Mexico has a problem with Rey putting the mask back on, I'll just throw down.
Aaaannnywayyyyy....I admit I watched the show trying to get a feel for Russo influences. I felt it in the sense that Vince's opening promo influenced the entire show, no match was a throwaway time-filler, and if someone appeared on camera, there was a reason. Russo was very good at doing that.
I really liked this week's show. I can't believe I didn't catch the Rey Rey vignette though....what in the heck did I flip to?!?! I'm bitter
If "Ruthless Aggression" becomes the new WWE buzzword, I think that will turn things around. If everyone is aggressive in their efforts, aggressive to improve themselves...it will rub off on fans. It's time to stop giving off the attitude that "we beat ECW, we beat WCW...if you like wrestling, we're all you got, so you'll just watch what we give you." Aggressive is nice.
Originally posted by whateverLive notes: The upper deck was curtained off, and I was also surprised how dark it was in the arena. Low attendance in general, the crowd was mostly set over to one side for the cameras to catch.
Just like stocks are in a bear market, you might say its a bear market for WWE fans. Fans are not investing new time (that's their "currency" here besides their money) in this "market" and probably are, in fact, looking for a reason to "sell off" (invest their time elsewhere). It may just be a matter of time before either WWE does something really dumb and the next wave of "selling" hits.
Whereas the markets are forward-looking, there undoubtedly is a trailing-effect involved with wrestling fans. Whether that is 1, 3 or 6 months is hard to say. I wouldn't go longer than 6 months.
What I'm saying is if the product started turning around with this RAW, it may not begin to show up in ratings until 6 months from now. At the same time, you can probably classify the product 6 months ago as a failure (although slowly bleeding to death is the better option to getting decapitated).
They're still trying to get their footing for a post-Austin direction so it was messy, but there was some good and really good stuff during the show.
The worst thing was probably the Vince opening interview. I'm well past the point of not being able to take Vince speaking in his Mr. McMahon growly "YOOOOOU RUUUUUINED IT!" voice for 10-20 (even five) minutes anymore. There had to be a much easier way to get to the obvious Show/Pac vs. Booker/Goldust match, perhaps by giving them more time themselves. Booker getting in the ring to answer McMahon was good, though. The nWo came out looking like they were going to try to be faces and then swtiched over, that was interesting.
As everyone has said, Booker and Goldust continue to be great together with their neo-Rock 'n Sock vibe. Booker is full of energy again and Goldust is paying off way more than anyone could have expected when they announced he was coming back. Dustin just totally commits to the character and he's in a great groove with the nWo. For whatever reason, he's also the guy who makes Big Show look the most imposing even though he's a big guy himself. I can't explain that one, but everytime they're in the ring together, Show looks that much more gigantic.
They probably need a minor in-ring victory against the nWo soon, though, because the crowd certainly seems to want it. I can only hope we'll eventually get a see a Booker segment where he confronts McMahon in his office and goes on a rant ending with "Now can you dig THAT?!" and leaves. Then a few minutes or segments later, as Vince is talking to someone else, his magic cell phone rings and when he answers it, it's Booker on the line saying "SUUUUCKAAAAAAA!"
I love it when UT talks in his normal voice. I don't know why, but it's always funny to hear him complain in his normal speaking tone. They must have something planned for that ladder match, one way or another, it's going to be worth watching. I'm thinking maybe they'll be some kind of elevated chokeslam from the ladder like his old chokeslam off the apron. That's going to be a crazy match.
The women's match had its moments, especially the breakup of a near fall where Molly did a low dropkick to Trish's face while Trish was covering, which looked pretty neat.
Did I miss them explain where Flair was? Or did I somehow miss Flair appear entirely. That was a really weird segment and I'm still not sure about a Bubba/Eddie feud. Benoit had some wacky 70s yearbook hair going at the end there.
I'm pretty excited by the upcoming return of Rey to his masked form. He was great in the never-give-up character in WCW before the Konnan-lite crap, and that was a really cool promo they did for him. I hope that means they have something major planned for him. Is he supposed to appear on SmackDown this week or is this going to be a longer pre-appearance build-up like they used to do through when Val and Edge were being brought in?
Van Dam was terrific in the main event. When Brock was on offense, the match didn't go so well (RVD was selling it like crazy, though, especially when he dropped right on his neck after Lesnar finished that bit where he had him over his shoulder and rammed him into the corner before dropping him like a sack of doorknobs). When Van Dam took over, it was like a whole other match. That sequence when he shoulderblocked Lesnar into the corner, backflipped and ran up for the monkeyflip but got brought up for a powerbomb, then countered into a rana looked fantastic. The quick sweeping drop toehold onto the middle rope was neat and the spinning leg lariat from the top looked really good this week. I wasn't really a fan of RVD in ECW, but the shorter and more controlled matches he's had in the WWE makes him tighten up his pace and look like he's on overdrive in the ring most of the time. He's been a lot of fun to watch.
This is, I think, a good test for Lesnar. If he can't get some major reaction from the crowd with RVD flying around for him and taking nasty looking bumps in the corner and through a table, they need to make a few changes with him. It was cool to hear him talk, and he sounded pretty good, so here's hoping they let him develop his own character some more. I'm glad he didn't have a dubbed in voice to make him sound Tyson-esque.
I'm amazed at how over Booker T is! Hallelujah! Remember when Booker T first arrived in the WWF, how people said he'd never be over with their crowd? Well, it took a little while but he's MAD OVER and I love it!
So can you dig that...?
Whoo, that felt good. That really did. The whole Booker/Goldust/nWo segment (all of them, actually) really brought a smile to my face. Booker T was one of the few things even remotely watchable about latter-day WCW, and finally... FINALLY... he's getting his chance to succeed in the WWF.
And about the thought that Goldust somehow makes Big Show look that much more imposing. I think the Goldust costume makes Dustin Rhodes look a lot skinnier than he really is-- either that, or Dustin has lost a lot of weight since last I saw him in WCW. So Goldust looks like a tall, skinny dude, and Big Show is a freaking Showpotamus, so of course he looks that much more imposing against Goldust.
Lesnar finally talking was cool, as I've said before-- but I don't think he's yet over by himself, I think Goldberg still has a lot to do with it. Nice to see that fans still remember the old WCW, though.
I'm probably the only Jeff hardy fan on this board but I don't care! The ladder match will be great. Jeff will be killed but it will be a glorious death, with ratings. Rey is here, Raven gets storyline. I'm finally getting interested in the product again.........
hopfully you were being sarcastic but, if you're stumped, it's Rey Rey...and back in the mask bay-beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Holyshit! If Rey comes back in the mask I will mark out like a little bitch. Masked Rey kicks unmasked Rey's ass in so many ways.
word, dawg...unmaked Rey-Rey looks like a 10 year old trying to play "grown-up"
will they bring up the history between him and the nWo???
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college." -Lewis Black "Yeah, fuck you E.T. you ungrateful dick." -BigDaddyLoco 5/20/2 "MAY PRE HOUSE THE SEAMY SIDE VOLITATION!!!" Warning from a "Flying Goku" Dragon Ball Z toy "I'm her sugar momma, which is ok, because I'm her sister." Connie French, and the funniest thing one of my customers has ever said to me "Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. If the horses appear skittish, the motorist must take his car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bushes." Pennsylvania State law
I laughed! I cried! I fudged my undies when you wrote: One of the better RAW programs in quite a while, I thought.
The opening speech by Vincenzo addressed the need for new stars to step up. Hey, at least Vince gave the issue some lip service. Eddy, Booker, Brock, RVD, and Benoit are waiting, help them help you. It's possible.
Nowinski has a nice on-camera presence, and pairing up with William Regal would turn Jesus Christ heel in the eyes of the fans.
I think Jackie's a dog. Did anyone watch those Tough Enough shows? Ugh. Linda, on the other hand...I could get me some of that.
Thank God Booker is super over, it's about time. A little rub from the Rock never hurt anyone...it just doesn't help everyone (see Mr. Ass).
Hey, if the NWO is a joke anyway, why not let them be belittled by a fairy in gold paint? Somewhere, Mark Madden weeps for not getting promotional rights to the word "Spinaroonie". He should've listened to Larry Z. while they were both still employed.
RVD/Lesner was bumpariffic. Raven/Dreamer was not. The further ECW gets from our mind, the less anyone cares about those guys if they're never evicted from Jobber Hell. Just ask Tazz, Mike Awesome, Justin Credible, etc.
After next week, Jeff Hardy will be buried for the next six months, which is too bad since his mic work is actually getting much better. You don't think they'd actually put the title on...nah.
Oh, and nice to see the announcers backing off of the "fat ass" stuff with Molly. Ratings are bad enough without some women's group or health lobbying organizations taking some of those comments to "Good Morning America". The last thing WWE needs is national publicity of that variety.
Originally posted by Johnny ResinwichRVD/Lesner was bumpariffic. Raven/Dreamer was not. The further ECW gets from our mind, the less anyone cares about those guys if they're never evicted from Jobber Hell. Just ask Tazz, Mike Awesome, Justin Credible, etc.
Yeah, that Tazz is sure buried. On my TV, at least two hours a week, likely free from injuries and having a good solid job for many more years than he would have fighting day after day.
"Nothing remains interesting where anything may happen." -H.G. Wells
Next week, Hardy will just bump like a madman for UT. Nothing else, and then UT will get the title. I think Ric will come back and team with Bubba to face a returning Benoit and Eddie Guerrero. And I REALLY hope that Brock Lesnar gets rid of Paul Heyman to start his MEGA-PUSH~! Oh, and if RVD and Booker T aren't being pushed ahead of The Undertaker, then why have them at all?
"Big" Tim Livingston-Resident Smart Mark and CRZ admirer!
I mark for these peoples: Benoit, RVD, Guerrero, Saturn, Storm, Kawada, Misawa, Mutoh, Chris Daniels, and Chris Jericho...your hero and mine.
Yous guys remember when THEY BE CLUBBERIN, TONY~!????
I think Jackie is cool...she may need a little meat on her bones like Terri, but I thought she looked pretty damn good. Hella buffed too! They need to bring back Annie and sell her and Jackie like two big amazon heels who tear up the division. I agree that hopefully she is using McMahon to get something (like bring in her TE friend Annie?)
The pre-match promo was a nice touch too. It gave Trish back her baby face role, but I agree that Molly needs to do more evil things (or be turned face by a Trish heel turn). She's not a very strong heel at the moment, which is why I think they need to let Jackie have a crack at this. And please send Linda to Smackdown to be the official womens division jobber.
You know, I always kinda liked Funk... As Kwee Wee in WCW, he sure didn't have much to work with but he seemed to give 110% and he was pretty good in the ring. Maybe he just needs a good gimmick to really get going.