The opening promo seemed to drag, but set up the show (and probably the next couple of weeks) nicely. Booker kind of flubbed his lines a little, but Goldust's "marriage" line was hilarious.
Regal/Nowinski over Bradshaw/Spike- Good to see the clean finish, and Nowinski looks good again. Why hasn't Regal been doing anything the last couple of weeks? Even in this match he was really inactive.
Jackie is already a waste. How is she any different from any other woman on the roster besides Jazz and Molly now? That's the big problem with WWE women's wrestling-no distinct unique personalities.
Eddy over Bubba Ray- Again, a nice clean finish. With Angle/Hogan last night, the tag match earlier in the show, this and several Undertaker matches over the past month we have seen clean heel victories increase greatly lately. I guess Flair is out as top face.
The Goldust/Booker/NWO segment backstage was even funnier then at KOTR. X-Pac's species is prone to suck? Hilarious! All that was missing was Booker calling X-Pac a "ratty little sucka". I really dig X-Pac in his NWO "tattle-tale/bitch/crybabay" role. Booker's "Can you dig it....Sucka" is way over.
Tommy Dreamer over Raven- At least they finally seem determined to push Raven. I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes, though it is painfully obvious he will just wind up on Smackdown somehow.
Lesnar's coronation- Nothing really happened worth noting. Paul Heyman is really strong enough to restrain Brock Lesnar? Afterwards, however, they really seemed to be hinting at a Brock Lesnar face turn. He kept starting to speak during the Vince/Lesnar/Heyman backstage segment, but Heyman kept interupting him. Lesnar even seemed mad at one point at the end, which is probably the first time on WWE TV that he has shown any emotion. Why have RVD/Lesnar tonight? Either it's a DQ finish, Lesnar jobs and is killed, or RVD loses his title AGAIN. Unless of course Lesnar is turning face afterall. And DAMN Paul Heyman got skinny. When did that happen?
Undertaker over Jeff Hardy- Another clean heel win, though Taker should win this one clean anyway. Finally before the match the Hardys acknowledge that tag teams have nothing to shoot for on RAW with the titles on Smackdown, so the Hardys agree to go solo. Just have the tag champs on both shows PLEASE! I don't know why they would have a ladder match between these two with the RVD/Guerrero one so fresh in our memories, as I don't see these two coming close to it. Especially when nobody in the world thinks Jeff will win the title. Keep Jeff Hardy away from the mic. Good to see the WWE hype shows a week in advance, though.
Linda/Trish over Jackie/Molly- While I think it is a stupid angle, Lawler had a funny line here: "You know, Molly has to buy two tickets now to fly Southwest Airlines!" Anyway, I felt sorry for Trish when she cut her promo saying all the fans know she didn't sleep her way to the title, that she worked hard for it. Every fan aside from some internet people I'm sure couldn't give a shit about Trish's "hard work."
Lesnar SPEAKS! He didn't sound too bad, though he was admittedly just screaming. Good job foreshadowing by WWE that the speech was coming...
NWO (Big Show/X-Pac) over Booker/Goldust- If the NWO loses, the two members could be out, per Nash's pre-match motivational speech. Goldust's Bronco Buster was...weird. This storyline has been the most compelling thing on WWE television for at least a month, which is pretty impressive given most of the participants. Spiffy match to boot. Even Goldust was getting some heavy cheers by the end of this match. NOTE: For the first time since the summer of 2000 that I recall, JR acknowledged The Big Show as a former World Champion.
Looks like the Intercontinental Title match is once again main eventing RAW. I don't think I need to explain why this is a good thing. It puts not only the belt and it's holder over as important, but also makes title matches of any sort seem special.
Rob van Dam over Brock Lesnar- Back in 1997 Triple H and Mick Foley met in the King of the Ring finals and it led to a feud that lasted for years. Edge and Kurt Angle met in last year's final, and haven't liked each other since. Time will tell how this rivalry plays out, but it could be a huge one some day.
Crowd chants "Goldberg" during the match. I scream obscenties. Why can't people appreciate the fact that this man is more talented then Goldberg? Lawler brings up Bret Hart and the "Kiss my foot" match as an example of why not to interupt King coronations. Lesnar is KILLING van Dam, which leads me to believe RVD will pull off the upset. A bearhug? I thought that was Mark Henry's finisher? Don't they know that move sucks? Good match until that move just stopped it dead. The following working of the back was slow and methodical (and we all know what that means). The two then recover nicely, however, until the lame DQ finish. So RVD beat up Lesnar. RVD's 5* Frog Splash on Heyman was cool though.
I hope they don't...OK. They showed Lesnar powerbomb RVD through the announce table. I was afraid they were hinting at cutting away ("running out of time") and leaving it as a cliff hanger for next week.
Overall a great show. Booker T's big push is long overdue, and it is great (and I mean GREAT) to see him as the top face on RAW. Undertaker's assault on the midcard continues, Goldust's antics were a sight to see, and RVD and Lesnar are going places. I am actually getting excited about watching WWE wrestling again.
(edited by TheBucsFan on 24.6.02 2322) Mean Gene: "You know, I don't think it's a question - Goldberg, I don't think it's a question of who's next, I think it's a question of who's left?" Goldberg: "No, see, that's where you're wrong. It ain't who's left, it's - WHO'S NEXT?"
"Just how hardcore am I? Well this morning, I drank milk that was two days past the expiration!" -Norman Smiley
I'll be brief. I liked the show alot, I wish there coulda been a clean finish in the main, but oh well. One question: During the womens match, when Jackie was going upstairs, did it seem like she was slipping? She seemed to fall down by herself and it didn't look good at all. That one moment and the DQ in the main were my only gripes with this show.
I only got to see 2 complete things. Those two things being... The Goldust/NWO/BookerT backstage segment (which was absofuckinglutely hillarious... Goldie did a spot on Steve Irwin impersonation), and the RVD/Lesnar match, which I thought was damn good, reminiscent of the RVD/Undertaker match due to the "RVD gets his ass kicked, manages a come back, gets his asked kicked some more, manages another come back, rinse and repeat" formula, but that's not a bad thing, it's a good thing.
Half an hour till I can really watch raw, YAY!
*Edit* Damnit, damnit... stupid TSN, showing golf at 12:40 am. I hate them, yes I do.
Opening Vince was decent. McMahon invents a catchphrase for the day, as his family is wont to do, and sets up the matches for the show. Things pick up signifigantly once nWo and BookeDust get vocal.
Jeff Hary's mic work was pretty good by Jeff Hardy standards: by which I actually understood what the hell he was saying and almost believed him. I wouldn't mind this This Haryz/Taker stuff if it actually paid off with something, as the character work is pretty decent. Obviously Jeff isn't winning the title, but I don't need to see him squashed for a fifteenth time by the same guy, either.
Actually, I think they were trying (this week at least) to sell the women's division as actually respectable. King toned down the fatass stuff a bit and JR called it on him, and Trish tried to play like she was an actual competitor. So, you know. And actually the women have personalities if broad ones. Molly's the haughty virgin, Jackie's the vamp (the only vamp who actually wrestles, so it's viable somewhat), Trish is the classic babyface, and Linda is... um... the big black chick. Okay, so they could work on it a bit.
Lesnar speak. Decent delivery, but wrestlers spouting the Vince McMahon catch phrase of the day is always hellalame. They should have saved it until he actually had something of substance to say.
Semi-Main was bitchin'. Goldust walks such a funky line between goofy and creepy I'm amazed he pulls it off. But he does. Booker is Booker. Pac and Show do their thing and the booking takes care of the rest.
Main was also bitchin'. Don't mind cheap finishes on free TV, to be honest with you. I really have nothing else of substance to say about it.
The first hour and a half of the show seemed too scattered. I don't think any of those matches went over 3:30. It just seemed like a case of "throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks". And the Raven/Dreamer thing totally came out of left field and gets my "wtf!?" of the night.
However, the last two matches of the night were wonderful. Booker/Goldust vs. nWo really picked-up at the end, as did the Brock vs. RVD match. This stuff is good, as it carries through with plot begun over a month ago. Yay, continuity!
I honestly had my hopes up that Jeff Hardy would challenge Taker to a match that made sense for him to be in, such as a casket match / buried alive match. Now I know he's just an evil biker now, and apparently no longer a dead mortician, I just figured Jeff would try something new, what with being all wacky and extreme now. I am a sucker for a ladder match no matter who is involved though, so I know I'll be watching it like a train wreck is about to happen despite already knowing who is walking out champ.
The Booker/Golddust vs nWo feud took some time to warm the fans over, but when Booker T "Bookered up" during the match, it totally marked me and the Cleveland fans out. The Golddust, nWo hunter, and the punking out of X-Pac segment established the faces as more than a humorous pairing, but a legit threat. It also had the positive side effect of waking The Big Show from his two-year stupor (X-Pac was already revived by RVD last week). The nWo are now scrambling, which is their ideal state. Maybe if the Backbroken Kid and Oz threatened expulsion every week, X-Rat and Dreams of Cheeseburgers will actually go places.
Molly/Jackie vs Trish/Linda--cool, for once the fans are interested in the ladies match, and there were no calls for puppies, other than Lawler. BTW what was the BS about Molly pulling Trish's pants last night? Grabbing Trish's pants is like pulling Hulk Hogan's hair around--there is nothing to get a grip on. JR better stop the BS or he will sound like Lawler. He didn't even take advantage of Vince's call for ruthless agression and made Lawler his bitch, even after Lawler dared him to. This could be the beginning of the end for him.
Nowinski using his brains--even impressed stock broker Bradshaw.
"Shut Up Paul!!!" Brock probably made some new fans tonight, including me. Brock took RVD's stiff offense like a man, as well as RVD received from Brock, not like some whiners we know. Only thing missing was an Awesome bomb. One more thing: Northern Lights Suplex, Jr, Northern Lights suplex, not belly-to-belly.
I agree with most of the comments above, the Goldust/Croc Hunter skit in the back was pretty amusing and the match was good as well. Overall I enjoyed the show.
The biggest problem I have is with the two Tough Enough winners. Linda has no character or angle at all really. She is tough and wants to win...thats it. Meanwhile Jackie is just another bimbo. What, is Vince going to have Stacy on Smackdown and Jackie on Raw? Maybe they could get that angle going, give him two personal assistants and eventually they meet with a huge catfight. But I doubt it. I would have hoped they could have had her be confident enough in her own abilities to not come onto Vince and parade around in lingerie. But perhaps that was just wishful thinking.
Originally posted by The Great ThomasAnd finally, who was the guy in the mask in that "HE'S COMING" commercial? I'd just like to know.
hopfully you were being sarcastic
but, if you're stumped, it's Rey Rey...and back in the mask bay-beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
man, was that crowd dead or what!~
and were the upper decks blacked out all night or was it just me....looked like we were watching "Dark" matches all night.
"If it weren't for my horse, I wouldn't have spent that year in college." -Lewis Black "Yeah, fuck you E.T. you ungrateful dick." -BigDaddyLoco 5/20/2 "MAY PRE HOUSE THE SEAMY SIDE VOLITATION!!!" Warning from a "Flying Goku" Dragon Ball Z toy "I'm her sugar momma, which is ok, because I'm her sister." Connie French, and the funniest thing one of my customers has ever said to me "Any motorist who sights a team of horses coming toward him must pull well off the road, cover his car with a blanket or canvas that blends with the countryside, and let the horses pass. If the horses appear skittish, the motorist must take his car apart, piece by piece, and hide it under the nearest bushes." Pennsylvania State law
The women's match felt a little disjointed, but they had the two Tough Enough rookies in there so I guess that explains why. Still decent match though, and I liked the finish. It did seem out of character for Molly to be okay with teaming with Jackie who's trying to use her body to impress Vince, which is why I would've loved to see Molly lay out everyone with a chair after the match to further put over how she hates the sex-pots in the women's division. Trish's promo before the match did a good job of making her the babyface in that situation, but Molly still needs to do something major heelish to Trish, like throw her into a gimmicked window or something. BTW, what were Jackie and Molly saying to each other when they were walking down the ramp? Seemed like negative words, and didn't really play into the match. Maybe I am just reading too much into it.
Glad to see they are hyping matches for next weeks RAW, what with the UT/Jeff Hardy ladder match. Hopefully Jeff will get some more offence in that one so it won't seem like such a waste of time.
Vince McMahon really has to get off my TV though. Nothing wrong with his opening promo, but his on-air ownership of both brands does a good job of making the split worthless, and the whole "evil owner vs. babyface" thing is played out which makes Vince's character played out in the process. But Vince has a hard on for his TV character and wants to satisfy that desire for TV face time, so I guess that won't be happening anytime soon.
Brock Lesnar may have more talent then Goldberg, but he really needs to work on his game. He can do a SSP, so he seems capable of a Mike Awesome-ish athletic based offence. Hopefully he'll start doing more of that and rely less on the bearhug in the future. RVD played a pretty good bump machine for Brock though, and nice to see him adding that handspring moonsalt to his list of moves. The RVD frog-splash on Heyman and Brock's powerbombing of RVD through the announce table was a great way to end the show.
The Booker/Goldust duo is hilarious. It's nice to see Dustin using his gift for humorous impersonations to shake the staleness out of Goldust. Booker and his "can you dig that..." followed by the delayed "SUCKAAAAAAAAAAA" catchphrase is monster over.
Actually, during the Raven/Dreamer match J.R. said something to the effect that the loser might not be welcome on Smackdown, either, which leads me to think that they're not going for something that obvious. (Besides, why do a whole angle and match just to shuffle Raven to Smackdown when Vince, who runs both shows, can just point at Raven and say, "You. Over to Smackdown. Scoot.")
"He Is Coming" -- Rey Mysterio, I believe, since they showed luchador masks as part of the video.
Up til the last couple of matches, I was thinking, "Good angles tonight, but lousy wrestling." It did have a Russoish feel to it -- from the opener, with Vince coming out to immediately make a bunch of matches for the upcoming night, to Goldust's elaborate Crocodile Hunter skit, to the multiple angles developing simultaneously -- not to mention the really short matches. But those last two were pretty good stuff; I was afraid they were really gonna put the IC title on Brocksnar, so I have absolutely no objection to the DQ. And I'm kinda looking forward to the Jeff/Undertaker ladder match, which is one of those ideas that's so insane I just gotta see how it goes.
This set of Raw thoughts has been made safe for Chris Jericho or any other WWE employee who happens upon it, in that there will be no negative comments about anyone or anything. All happy thoughts!
-Opening segment gave us a great new catchphrase "Ruthless Aggression!" Also, Booker/Goldust are the most priceless duo in wrestling.
-Chris Nowinski had very spiffy tights tonight. And he has a very good smile. The Harvard yearbook was a nice touch.
-Jackie Gayda is a very attractive woman, and it's always fun to watch Vince get a serious case of coitus interruptus.
-Eddy took a very good table shot, and I am always glad to see Benoit on my tv.
-Rey Misterio gets the coolest video package intro since Edge was getting set to debut.
-The Goldust Hunter was almost as funny as the promo last night. If I were in a negative mood I'd say it dragged just a bit, but instead I prefer to think of it as just giving us more time to laugh.
-I understood almost every word when Jeff and Matt were talking to each other, which shows definite promo improvement!
-Tommy Dreamer won to stay on Raw, which is great since we'll get more of his hijinx in future episodes hopefully.
-The coronation let Paul E. have a fine monologue. RVD hit a couple of nice looking kicks on Brock, and they continued a storyline in a logical manner.
-Jeff Hardy took some damn good bumps against UT. This match made UT look dominant, while keeping up the image of Jeff Hardy as a scrappy never-say-die fighter. And who isn't excited about the idea of UT in a ladder match?!
-Brock Spoke! And thankfully his voice didn't sound like Mike Tyson!
-Booker looked great and got major crowd support against the NWO. Even Goldust looked extra inspired, going above and beyond his usual solid in-ring performances. Big Show is a dominant beast in the ring, and it's always fun to watch what sort of strategy someone will try to come up with topple this behemoth.
-RVD/Lesnar was a hell of a match to watch, as Lesnar's power game grounded the high flying RVD. The ending, which some might mistakenly construe as a cop-out, serves to continue this feud and build even more heat for future meetings between the two men. The bump RVD took on the floor was very painful looking, and he showed incredible heart to get up and take the table spot after that.
Wow, I guess one can talk about an entire Raw and be positive! I feel much better already.
(edited by spf2119 on 24.6.02 2331) Anyone remember the joy of seeing him bash the Undertaker's motorcycle with his sledgemhammer and doing no damage and being all like, "Mjolnir will not break thine cycle? I say thee NAY!" and dumping it off the stage. - Enojado Viento says the funniest thing I've ever read on Wienerville.
I'm sure we'll see that phrase repeated quite a bit in the future, Jackson. That was the first intentionally funny segment I laughed at in a while... probably one of my personal favorite backstage segments. Also:
* Nice to see Nowinski get more appropriate tights... I figured he should have always had crimson. The gold trunks from last week looked as out of place as that guy on MTV's True Life special on wrestling, "The Expert", who was intro'd as being from Harvard, but wore a blue cap and gown to the ring. Speaking of which, when are they running shows in New Haven again? Their last CT swing, IIRC, they hit Hartford (the Hogan motorcycle incident), Bridgeport (for SD), and now they're coming through Mohegan Sun (Uncasville, which is in south-east CT). Maybe because they're tearing down the Coliseum sometime soon.
EDIT: Eep. Forgot the rest.
* Was there even a crowd for the Raven/Dreamer match? They talked up the history, and... no one there cared.
* Linda seems to strike me as someone who will never appear in Diva shoots, but get over on wrestling. I'm sure the skills will come in time. And hopefully Jackie's just using McMahon... we don't need yet ANOTHER slut trying to get with Vince.
* If Vince's attempt to get rid of the excess talent on Raw means underused talents get TV time, I'm happy. Can't go wrong with actually trying to share the wealth.
I had fun watching the show tonight. The way things are, they know they have to make "new stars" at least on Raw, and by actually coming out in the opening segment and admitting that they gave the guys the incentive to turn it up a notch. We'll see who can keep up and who can't.
Like everyone else, I got a kick out of the Crocdust segment. I admit, I didn't think bringing Goldust back was a wise move at first, and I wasn't sure about him fighting RVD as his first feud, but now he's found a niche he fits in perfectly. And, no pun intended, Booker plays a great straight man to him.
Jury's out from where I sit on the Dreamer/Raven match and aftermath. Depends on what Raven does next, whether it's forming the Flock and buying tickets to Raw to watch from the crowd, or just wrestling only on Heat from now on..
I'm getting into Chris Nowinski, it must be the extra year he's had to learn but he seems to fit in a lot better than the other Tough Enough grads did at first. I can watch him out there wrestling and it doesn't seem shocking to see him beating Spike and Bradshaw, he's got the look and seems to have enough skill to back it up.
Jeff Hardy vs. Undertaker? Good for what it was, though the chokeslam looked a bit screwed up, like Jeff slipped off Taker's shoulder. The ladder match next week has me curious at least. I've seen people commenting elsewhere that Taker wouldn't be able to climb the ladder, am I the only one who remembers that he can walk the top rope like a tightrope? Climbing a ladder to get a belt can't be that hard for him. Sheesh, Taker bashers, go figure.
The matches for the first hour and a half were pretty short, then the last half hour they suddenly got longer. The women's match was good considering two of the four were completely fresh, but some of their interactions were good (like Linda's big boot on Molly while arm-wringing Jackie). They've got promise. Can't say I like Jackie cozying up with Vince, but I guess that's the point of it.
Did Goldust only hook one of the Show's legs up for the Shattered Dreams because he worried if he set both up, he might break the ring?
And finally, Lesnar takes on RVD. I think Lesnar's been pretty impressive so far, I don't really care when people say he has no heat. Since when did Internet fans care about a wrestler's heat? Everyone loves Benoit despite that, right? It will come in time. I think part of the problem is the sound crew trying to mute the "Goldberg" chants, because at the live event I was at a month ago, we were pretty loud in the Lesnar match. But still, the right man won the match, even if by DQ. I can see the RVD/Lesnar feud being like Rock/HHH over the IC title in the past, where it can really elevate both guys. Of course, RVD probably doesn't need that much elevation..
Hey, I'm new posting here...summer and unemployment have given me time to do such things. ;-)
Anyway, one thing I notice on these forums that I just don't get--Booker T. and Goldust, in their current gimmicks, will NEVER be main eventers.
Don't get me wrong, their stuff is very funny (Goldust on RAW, AWESOME...I will not stop laughing at Big Show murmering "cheeseburger..." even if it buries him), but can anyone buy Booker being the next great superstar? No one did in WCW, I don't see why they would now. For some odd reason I can't hear "CAN U DIG IT, SUCKA?" playing as he steps onto the set of Regis and Whoever The Kathie Lee Replacement Is. Booker is over, he's funny, but the gimmick is just going to limit where he can go.
Goldust, well...I don't think anyone here thinks he's in too much danger of reaching the Undisputed Championship.
Another thing I still wonder about is WHY Vince runs his mouth about elevating new talent when he obviously isn't trying. RAW has one man that could give the rub to anyone on the program--UT. But UT is just screwing around with Jeff Hardy, completely burying his career in the process. Why not have UT fighting RVD? It gives RVD the rub, and it makes the fans say "Hey, RVD can beat the Undertaker, he can beat all the big guys." Instead they have Lesnar and RVD at the top so they can blame THEM if the ratings suck.
Just looking at things from a casual fan perspective...but other than these big storyline woes, the show itself was pretty decent. I guess the first hour wasn't very good though, since I missed (still kicking myself) the Rey Jr. intro video while I was watching the Braves.
OK, in just a few weeks Bull Buchanan and D'Lo Brown have both been released after having been replaced in current storylines by the same guy (Red Dog/Rodney Mack). I have a wild theory that it's all a work. Supporting points: