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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Supershow #994 6/4/12 (Page 2)
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Dr Unlikely
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Since: 2.1.02

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.29
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Do they really think VINCE is the surefire ratings booster that will left a dead on arrival third hour next week?
We'll know for sure if HHH is also in that segment.

    Originally posted by TripleG
    Oh I haven't watched Raw in forever so I gotta ask when did Vince regain power storyline wise?
I don't know that he technically did. I could be mistaken, but I think his last appearance was on the infamous October 10th Strike Episode, which many here (myself included) count among the worst episodes of Raw and thus might be consigned to the "This Never Happened" section of history. In that episode, Vince returned on behalf of the Board of Directors to relieve HHH of his duties as cross-brand GM because of the walkout and solidarity rally. I'm pretty sure they never said what Vince's role with the company actually was when they did this, most likely because they never actually gave anything that happened on that episode even the slightest bit of thought.

So what is their power structure supposed to be now? Vince was relieved as Chairman by HHH ("I'm sorry, Pop!") in the summer and named COO. Vince (sans title) returned as ???/Spokesman For The Board to relieve HHH of GM duties, but HHH remained COO. And Linda is/has been the on-air CEO all this time, right? So what is Vince supposed to be? President, as a separate title from CEO? And did they never select another Chairman for TV purposes?

If so, I guess we're looking at this as the TV power structure:

1. Mysterious Board of Directors
2. CEO Linda McMahon
3. COO HHH
4. Vince McMahon In Unknown Capacity
5. Executive Vice President of Talent Relations and (Permanent Except Right Before Each PPV) GM of Raw and SmackDown Mr. John Laurinaitis
6. Executive Administrator For Executive Vice President of Talent Relations and (Permanent Except Right Before Each PPV) GM of Raw and SmackDown Mr. John Laurinaitis Eve
7. Legal Counsel To Executive Vice President of Talent Relations and (Permanent Except Right Before Each PPV) GM of Raw and SmackDown Mr. John Laurinaitis David Otunga
8. David Otunga's Travel Thermos
9. Official NXT Match Coordinator William Regal

However we're supposed to view it, it would be nice if they'd put just a tiny bit of thought into it for TV purposes to give us a hint of an indication of why the Board of Directors goes back and forth on Ace so often and to better plan out things like Show's turn and current motivation.

Re: Raw itself, Sheamus' hair had a chance to continue its streak as the MVP of WWE TV, but I think it came in second to STAN STANSKY. I want those two in the tag division. I want a Stan Stansky/Arthur Rosenberg (2 Stan?) vs. Prime Time Players feud for the tag titles leading into a Titus vs. Stan Stansky captained Survivor Series match where the teams are split into five guys with cuts and five guys with no cuts.

The opening and closing with Cena was a blunt reminder of exactly how much time and effort they're willing to dedicate to the "Seriously, You Guys, Won't You Please Love John Cena? He Loves You!" movement.

June surprise, please.
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.05
Do they really think two old men in suits discussing business is a good drawing card for next week's 3 hour Raw?

I am not going to say the 3 hour show will suck, I will give it a chance. But even if we get extended matches, it will be with a bunch of guys no one takes seriously. Because outside of a select few (some who are on the suspended list) they just don't give us a reason to care about the majority of the roster. We all have our favorites, but most of them are guys we like, but just WISH they would seriously and consistently push. Guys like Dolph, Miz, Del Rio, Clay, Kofi, Swagger, Truth, Ryder, Cody, Tyson Kidd, etc. Did I forget anyone? They just don't give me a reason to care about almost anyone, except for a few guys who I am sick to death of like Kane, Orton, and Cena. Punk and Bryan are in good spots right now, but I get this feeling of dread that they could get shuffled down the card at any time.




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.95
    Originally posted by geemoney
    (3) Stan Stansky & Arthur Rosenberg vs. Ryback Now THOSE are jobber names. Tremendous. The two men did a simultaneous rhyme on the mic, proclaiming they’d beat Ryback because two is better than one. One guy was immediately back-dropped, the other was thrown into the first one. Ryback took one up for a suplex and put him down hard. Light “Goldberg” chant. After more annihilation (including a clothesline that took out both men), Ryback put them both up on his shoulders and finished them off.

    Winner: Ryback, at 1:54. It’s easy to look good against jobbers, but I really enjoy Ryback’s squashes.



Here is you did you know your local talent ID of the week. Arthur Rosenburg which if you google search returns this result.



One of the best tweets last night from "Arthur Rosenburg" better known as Kirby Mack.



Also someone already made an epic GIF



Also this coming Friday he takes on his trainer @MATTHARDYBRAND in Madison, WV. http://aswwv.com








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Since: 28.2.02
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.16
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely

    So what is their power structure supposed to be now? Vince was relieved as Chairman by HHH ("I'm sorry, Pop!") in the summer and named COO. Vince (sans title) returned as ???/Spokesman For The Board to relieve HHH of GM duties, but HHH remained COO. And Linda is/has been the on-air CEO all this time, right? So what is Vince supposed to be? President, as a separate title from CEO? And did they never select another Chairman for TV purposes?

    If so, I guess we're looking at this as the TV power structure:

    1. Mysterious Board of Directors
    2. CEO Linda McMahon
    3. COO HHH
    4. Vince McMahon In Unknown Capacity
    5. Executive Vice President of Talent Relations and (Permanent Except Right Before Each PPV) GM of Raw and SmackDown Mr. John Laurinaitis
    6. Executive Administrator For Executive Vice President of Talent Relations and (Permanent Except Right Before Each PPV) GM of Raw and SmackDown Mr. John Laurinaitis Eve
    7. Legal Counsel To Executive Vice President of Talent Relations and (Permanent Except Right Before Each PPV) GM of Raw and SmackDown Mr. John Laurinaitis David Otunga
    8. David Otunga's Travel Thermos
    9. Official NXT Match Coordinator William Regal



I may be mistaken in my recollection, but my impression was when "I love you, Pop" happened, Triple H was installed as COO and was given complete control over day to day operations of WWE. Vince never lost his position as Chairman of the Board; I believe he is still Chairman. And while it wasn't ever publicly stated on WWE TV (memory fails me), Linda is gone from the company and either Vince is also CEO as he is in real life or there has been no recognized storyline CEO.

When Triple H relieved Vince of his duties, he took away the absolute power over day to day operations of WWE Vince enjoyed and abused in storyline. Vince left "I love you, Pop" still with his title of Chairman but with drastically reduced or no power whatsoever, a figurehead, an empty suit. Although in the months since, Vince has apparently regained some degree of power, and he's still Vince McMahon, owner of the company, though the mysterious Board of Directors seem to have more control.

My head hurts.

(edited by John Orquiola on 5.6.12 1156)


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Since: 8.5.03
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
Ryback's armbands always look like Nexus bands at first.



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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
You got figure if they would have just had Brock kill Cena and let him be gone during this time, the show would be better. We would have Laurantis probably back feuding with Punk, more Punk and Bryan and no Big Show turns for the 18th time. Its 18 right, we settled on 18 in the last thread? I am also wondering the hell are they are paying Brock and Heyman if they are not even mentioned for weeks? This company wants to shove an extra hour at us and the fact of the matter is a lot of us can barely stand two hours. I know everyone including Orton should be back in time for the three hour show, but God Damn, I have no idea how shoving more Cena even he is being meta out there at times, is a going to move ratings.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
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Since: 26.10.10
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.80
I wasn't sold on Kane getting inserted into the Bryan/Punk feud, but after his SD matches with Punk and the match on Raw last night, I'm a believer. They have good chemistry together. And we already know how great Bryan is with Punk. So the 3-way match should be a showstealer without question.

I'm also digging how they're using AJ in all this. I love the idea of little AJ being so crazy and messed up in the head that she actually scares Kane of all people away.
BigDaddyLoco
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
Nice to see Kane can still go when given a really good worker. It reminds me how much I liked him when he faced Angle.

You knew Tensai was in trouble when he came out and just shoved his assistant. I wonder if he sticks around or he just got the Mordeci treatment, built up and and flushed away unceremoniously when it's clear that things just weren't working out.

Cole's promo right before the beat down sounded just like a defiant Vince McMahon promo not only in what he said, but how he said it.

I also thought this beat down was way too late. Then I started to wonder if it was Cole's birthday, if he failed a drug test or if they were just in his hometown.



    Originally posted by CRZ
    and the first appearance of FCW's own black ref Marc Harris - which again begs the question: has anybody seen WWE black ref Justin King since he screwed up the time cue on his Beat the Clock match?




I still think that was half Jericho's fault for not paying attention.
Torchslasher
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Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.28
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I know everyone including Orton should be back in time for the three hour show, but God Damn, I have no idea how shoving more Cena even he is being meta out there at times, is a going to move ratings.


Cena is the number one guy who moves ratings. How can you ask a question about Cena and ratings? Week after week we see that Cena does this. Last week, no Cena. Rating--2.7, one of the worst ratings in 15 years. This week with Cena--2.9.

Don't get me wrong, CM Punk is my favorite wrestler right now. But people like him and Daniel Bryan don't always move ratings, and Punk sometimes causes the ratings to drop quarter hour to quarter hour.

We can get into the injustice of it all, or talk about why it happens, but you can't deny that Cena gets ratings from casual WWE fans.

For last night's Raw, it was a babyface-heavy winning night, so I enjoyed it and didn't just delete it like usual. If Stan Stansky was on every week, I would watch it live every week.



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"All right, look alive everybody...oh sorry Susan."- MST3K: Space Mutiny
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
    Originally posted by Torchslasher
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I know everyone including Orton should be back in time for the three hour show, but God Damn, I have no idea how shoving more Cena even he is being meta out there at times, is a going to move ratings.


    Cena is the number one guy who moves ratings. How can you ask a question about Cena and ratings? Week after week we see that Cena does this. Last week, no Cena. Rating--2.7, one of the worst ratings in 15 years. This week with Cena--2.9.

    Don't get me wrong, CM Punk is my favorite wrestler right now. But people like him and Daniel Bryan don't always move ratings, and Punk sometimes causes the ratings to drop quarter hour to quarter hour.

    We can get into the injustice of it all, or talk about why it happens, but you can't deny that Cena gets ratings from casual WWE fans.

    For last night's Raw, it was a babyface-heavy winning night, so I enjoyed it and didn't just delete it like usual. If Stan Stansky was on every week, I would watch it live every week.


Or you can make the argument no gives a shit about Big Show who also was heavily on last week and no showed this week. The show is still below 3.0 even with John Cena on almost every second. If this is what the fanbase wants then they can have it. The problem is this same fanbase has gone from 3.5 with Cena has champ to 2.9. As well as the hideous buyrates with Cena in the main event.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.74
    Originally posted by Torchslasher
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I know everyone including Orton should be back in time for the three hour show, but God Damn, I have no idea how shoving more Cena even he is being meta out there at times, is a going to move ratings.


    Cena is the number one guy who moves ratings. How can you ask a question about Cena and ratings? Week after week we see that Cena does this. Last week, no Cena. Rating--2.7, one of the worst ratings in 15 years. This week with Cena--2.9.




Last week was also Memorial Day weekend, so I don't know if that's a good example.



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Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.28
Again, it was one of the worst ratings in 15 years, regardless of it being a holiday weekend. The last two Memorial Day shows (in 09 and 10) did 3.2 ratings (per the Observer), so while the number does usually dip some for holiday shows, I really do think that the absence of Cena hurt the rating.

You didn't quote the other part, but I do have to reiterate that Cena is a proven ratings getter, which is my whole point in this.

And as for Lotjx, Mr. Punk has been the WWE champ for over 200 days. In that time, the number has dipped as you point out. Cena is again one of the only people that can pop a rating. I am not a fan of John Cena, but recently, I had to live with the fact that the WWE Casual Universe wants to see him. It may disgust you or me, but this is just a fact.

(edited by Torchslasher on 5.6.12 1950)


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Since: 17.3.02
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
You're really that fired up over a .2 bump? On a Cena-centric show, if he was the ratings boon you claim he is, it surely would have been more. There are a combination of factors that cannot be simplified to Cena=Ratings. The product is stale, Prince Albert really does look like a fat slow kid playing ninja in the backyard, no one really cares about Show, nothing exciting or ground-breaking happens, etc. I echo the sentiments of the good Doctor; June surprise, please.



It’s so hard for me to sit back here in this studio, looking at a guy out here, hollering my name! When last year I spent more money, on spilled liquor, in bars from one side of this world to the other, than you made! You’re talking to the Rolex wearin, diamond ring wearin, kiss stealin, WOOOO wheelin dealin, limousine ridin, jet flyin son of a gun. And I'm having a hard time holding these alligators down!
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Since: 9.1.02
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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.92
Even on bad shows, when Cena comes out, hundreds of thousands of people can tune in. In segments where he's not on, they switch the channel. It's been proven week after week for years now.

There are a ton of factors leading to why the WWE can't put out entertaining shows and why the rating for last week was as bad as it was, but Torchslasher is right though about Cena not being there to give the show the boost he always does.

Dr Unlikely
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Since: 2.1.02

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.30
Of course people still tune in when Cena is on. They've spent the last six years teaching people that important things only happen when Cena is involved. That kind of is their problem.

Consider that Punk has the top belt in the company and has had it for months, and yet even on the show where Cena finally takes a night off, the main event/final segment goes to Cena's PPV opponent. Or that Cena's current top angle - the feud with Ace - was basically transferred from Punk to Cena, and that not only did Punk never actually get the "real" win over Cena to officially make them peers, but Cena was the guy who got the "revenge on Alberto Del Rio for cashing in MITB on Punk" feud, not Punk.

I don't pin any of this on Cena the guy, for whatever it's worth, beyond the fact that the guy simply doesn't ever want to come off TV or the road (for reasons that perhaps make more sense now than they used to, of course). But it's clear that the company is afraid to actually, honestly and earnestly commit to pushing people. They just won't do it and possibly don't remember how to do it anymore.

There are three guys capable of "making" someone important: Cena, HHH and Undertaker. Beating them means something. Beating anyone else on the roster means nothing, because everyone else on the roster either trades wins every month or just loses constantly until they decide to give them a halfass push and then react in shock when viewers no longer care about them.

They've had chances to "make" someone over the last year with Punk in the summer, Ryder in the winter and Bryan in the spring, but each time they chose to go against audience reaction and slide them back down again. Or, in Ryder's case, forcibly throw him back down and pave over his body. If none of these guys are going to get the Big Feud Against The Evil Boss Angle, or the big win over a once-in-a-lifetime returning star like Lesnar, or the big feud where they win over the Guys Who Matter of Cena, HHH and Undertaker or even the chane to main event the throwaway Memorial Day Show, it's irresponsible on the company's part to even expect them to be draws.

Sheamus is the exception, by the way. They're actually trying to push him, though they nearly made a huge mistake at Wrestlemania that could could have ruined the guy and took about a month to fix. His problem, though, is that he's still just beating guys who don't really matter. I mean, the "push" for Dolph Ziggler is losing back-to-back matches to Sheamus. How can Sheamus really succeed from being programmed against guys who are at that level? They're going to eventually hit the same wall with him: the only way to truly make him a star is to put him over Cena, HHH or Undertaker decisively and then stick with it.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.24
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Of course people still tune in when Cena is on. They've spent the last six years teaching people that important things only happen when Cena is involved. That kind of is their problem.

    Consider that Punk has the top belt in the company and has had it for months, and yet even on the show where Cena finally takes a night off, the main event/final segment goes to Cena's PPV opponent. Or that Cena's current top angle - the feud with Ace - was basically transferred from Punk to Cena, and that not only did Punk never actually get the "real" win over Cena to officially make them peers, but Cena was the guy who got the "revenge on Alberto Del Rio for cashing in MITB on Punk" feud, not Punk.

    I don't pin any of this on Cena the guy, for whatever it's worth, beyond the fact that the guy simply doesn't ever want to come off TV or the road (for reasons that perhaps make more sense now than they used to, of course). But it's clear that the company is afraid to actually, honestly and earnestly commit to pushing people. They just won't do it and possibly don't remember how to do it anymore.

    There are three guys capable of "making" someone important: Cena, HHH and Undertaker. Beating them means something. Beating anyone else on the roster means nothing, because everyone else on the roster either trades wins every month or just loses constantly until they decide to give them a halfass push and then react in shock when viewers no longer care about them.

    They've had chances to "make" someone over the last year with Punk in the summer, Ryder in the winter and Bryan in the spring, but each time they chose to go against audience reaction and slide them back down again. Or, in Ryder's case, forcibly throw him back down and pave over his body. If none of these guys are going to get the Big Feud Against The Evil Boss Angle, or the big win over a once-in-a-lifetime returning star like Lesnar, or the big feud where they win over the Guys Who Matter of Cena, HHH and Undertaker or even the chane to main event the throwaway Memorial Day Show, it's irresponsible on the company's part to even expect them to be draws.

    Sheamus is the exception, by the way. They're actually trying to push him, though they nearly made a huge mistake at Wrestlemania that could could have ruined the guy and took about a month to fix. His problem, though, is that he's still just beating guys who don't really matter. I mean, the "push" for Dolph Ziggler is losing back-to-back matches to Sheamus. How can Sheamus really succeed from being programmed against guys who are at that level? They're going to eventually hit the same wall with him: the only way to truly make him a star is to put him over Cena, HHH or Undertaker decisively and then stick with it.


Bingo. I also think the 2.7 had more to do with the holiday than no Cena.



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SKLOKAZOID
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Since: 20.3.02
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Consider that Punk has the top belt in the company and has had it for months, and yet even on the show where Cena finally takes a night off, the main event/final segment goes to Cena's PPV opponent. Or that Cena's current top angle - the feud with Ace - was basically transferred from Punk to Cena, and that not only did Punk never actually get the "real" win over Cena to officially make them peers, but Cena was the guy who got the "revenge on Alberto Del Rio for cashing in MITB on Punk" feud, not Punk.

No, Punk is the guy who definitively beat Del Rio in MSG at Survivor Series with The Fink announcing him as the champion, ending last summer's WWE Title Hot Potato (of Cena/Del Rio/Punk) even to this day. Punk more than got revenge on Del Rio, he did it at one of the biggest PPVs of last year and sent him back down a level and effectively ended his major push, and now Del Rio is going for Sheamus' belt, which isn't nearly as important. By the way...

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Sheamus is the exception, by the way. They're actually trying to push him, though they nearly made a huge mistake at Wrestlemania that could could have ruined the guy and took about a month to fix. His problem, though, is that he's still just beating guys who don't really matter. I mean, the "push" for Dolph Ziggler is losing back-to-back matches to Sheamus. How can Sheamus really succeed from being programmed against guys who are at that level? They're going to eventually hit the same wall with him: the only way to truly make him a star is to put him over Cena, HHH or Undertaker decisively and then stick with it.


I don't see how they're trying any harder with Sheamus than they are with CM Punk. Punk is consistently placed higher than Sheamus on the card and, despite never getting a "real" win over Cena, Punk beat Cena every time out last summer (plus, MITB was relatively clean).

They are even trying to give CM Punk stories for his matches (See: Jericho, Bryan). I can't even tell you why Del Rio and Sheamus are fighting, or why all four of those dudes fought in that fatal four way match last month. Also, Punk is on the cover of WWE '13.

Sheamus curtain-jerked WrestleMania for his win. Forget Sheamus. That's the last concern CM Punk fans should have as far as competition goes. Maybe there's some sort of backstage Sheamus plan that's thinking 5 years out, but right now, Punk has it all over Sheamus in every category.

If anything, Sheamus is taking a backseat to Punk who's taking a backseat to Cena. In fact, Sheamus is in the baby seat and will probably burn out before he grows up.


Now, they ARE trying harder with Cena than they are with Punk. The situation Punk is in is similar to 1998 when Sting beat Hogan and they still stuck the Hogan/Savage feud in the main event slot while Sting was wrestling Hall in co-main events.

The thing is, though, is that Cena is in that spot Hulk Hogan found himself in around 1991/1992 where there were clearly some people on the undercard (like Sid) who were gaining in popularity while Hogan needed to take a backseat. It even go to to a point where, at the 1992 Royal Ruymble, when Sid Justice got majorly over for daring to do the same thing to Hogan that Hogan did to Savage and Warrior, and got cheered for, they re-edited the ending to kill Sid's face pop and make Hogan look like the hero.

I think Cena moves enough merchandise and draws well enough to where they can't demote him, really. I just don't understand why Cena can't just be in the co-main event slot at least every other month. Cena/Rock should have been the main event at WM18, that's fine. Even Cena/Brock was fine (like Rock/Goldberg main evented Backlash in 2003). But the WWE Title shouldn't be taking a backseat to Cena/Ace and Cena/Show.

It's hard to say that Cena is responsible for the .2 increase of ratings. .2 is virtually table scraps. Regardless of how ratings go next week, it won't really change things. If they're good, McMahon will take credit. If they're bad, they will be ignored.


Also, how funny was that 1992 Royal Rumble re-edit?

ORIGINAL PPV ENDING: http://www.youtube.com/​​​​watch?​​​​v=BFQEUiN4-​​​​G8 (starts at 7:25)

EDITED ENDING: http://www.youtube.com/​​​​watch?​​​​v=6MevpcWY4dY (starts at 8:25)

(edited by SKLOKAZOID on 6.6.12 0919)
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Since: 18.7.10
From: Worcester, UK

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Some excellent points in this thread, especially by SKLOKAZOID just now.

I just want to add that if Michael Cole is being scripted to say that John Cena is "overrated" then to me that's a sign that enough people in WWE genuinely feel that way.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.25
Read it and weep, fella


    Originally posted by superfurry
    I just want to add that if Michael Cole is being scripted to say that John Cena is "overrated" then to me that's a sign that enough people in WWE genuinely feel that way.

Or maybe they're just responding to outside criticisms? Hard to imagine WWE thinks their own top star is overrated, unless we're talking about other performers thinking Cena is overrated?



CLICK OR DIE
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
Why would Cole's comments mean anything other than he's a bad guy? And a rather unimaginative one, at that?



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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Some highlights, courtesy of the Torch: -Konann sit-down Interview conducted by Mike Tenay -Lynn v.s Flair v.s Killings v.s Sanders 4 corners elim. match -Siaki v.s Red for the X Title -Low Ki & Skipper v.s Lee & Slash for Tag Titles
- geemoney, NWA:TNA 02/05/2003 (2003)
Related threads: Captioning RAW 5/28/12 - RAW Supershow #993 5/28/12 - Captioning RAW 5/21/12 - More...
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