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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Supershow #992 5/21/12 (Page 2)
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CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by graves9
    Not real sure why Christian turned face. The last time we saw him he was getting destroyed by C.M Punk and it would stand to reason that he would want revenge. I guess we're supposed to forget that.
To be fair, I don't remember it at all.



Oliver
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.03
From a Canadian perspective: The Score's Arda Ocal on the Score is really killing my enjoyment of the WWE programming here. His opinions on "his top five whatevers" really annoy me, and I find myself FFWDing through his schtick.

Give me back my Renee Paquette or whatever her name was.




...on a roll!
BigDaddyLoco
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by graves9
      Not real sure why Christian turned face. The last time we saw him he was getting destroyed by C.M Punk and it would stand to reason that he would want revenge. I guess we're supposed to forget that.
    To be fair, I don't remember it at all.


... and that is Christian in a nutshell. A fine wrestler, a nice promo guy his World Title cup of coffee was cool. He's a better version of Billy Gunn meaning he seems so much better as a tag team wrestler than on his own. A Miz/Christian tag team might be fun.

I don't hate Christian I just don't care about what he's doing, but it's probably just a taste thing. I've heard the same thing about guys like Mark Henry. What do I know?
Deputy Marshall
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Since: 28.6.04
From: Troy, NY

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#24 Posted on
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Originally posted by CRZ
        Originally posted by graves9
        Not real sure why Christian turned face. The last time we saw him he was getting destroyed by C.M Punk and it would stand to reason that he would want revenge. I guess we're supposed to forget that.
      To be fair, I don't remember it at all.


    ... and that is Christian in a nutshell. A fine wrestler, a nice promo guy his World Title cup of coffee was cool. He's a better version of Billy Gunn meaning he seems so much better as a tag team wrestler than on his own. A Miz/Christian tag team might be fun.

    I don't hate Christian I just don't care about what he's doing, but it's probably just a taste thing. I've heard the same thing about guys like Mark Henry. What do I know?


WHOA WHOA WHOA. Sorry, I sort of see your point, but I have to call shenanigans on the analogy. Christian is a better hand by miles and has had better runs than Gunn ever did, and at times with a lot less behind him in terms of a push. He's perfect in the upper mid-card. I think the crowd reactions to him and the success he's had bear that out.

I also didn't remember him being laid out by Punk, but I do remember his last few significant appearances being in a heel role, in particular when he appeared after the Rumble with Alberto del Rio and Mark Henry to call for the firing of Teddy Long. But it is hard these days to get a heel reaction out of the crowd for a guy like Christian that has good fan traction and exposure after coming back from a long injury lay-off. You almost have to bring them back in as a face, at least initially.

(edited by Deputy Marshall on 23.5.12 0041)



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    But it is hard these days to get a heel reaction out of the crowd for a guy like Christian that has good fan traction and exposure after coming back from a long injury lay-off. You almost have to bring them back in as a face, at least initially.


The WWE is drowning in heels. I commented in the SD thread that there are only 13 male faces in an official show roster of 47, counting Booker, Sin Cara, and Taker.

If we look at WWE.com's list of total active characters, and I count 90, there are 46 faces, but those include announcers, Rey, Evan Bourne, and the Rock. The product is heel-heavy. And all these heels make for a gray static.

But dig this: All the current champs are faces -- Punk, Sheamus, Santino, Christian, Layla, and Kofi/Truth.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
CHAPLOW
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Since: 14.5.04
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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.34
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
      But it is hard these days to get a heel reaction out of the crowd for a guy like Christian that has good fan traction and exposure after coming back from a long injury lay-off. You almost have to bring them back in as a face, at least initially.


    The WWE is drowning in heels. I commented in the SD thread that there are only 13 male faces in an official show roster of 47, counting Booker, Sin Cara, and Taker.

    If we look at WWE.com's list of total active characters, and I count 90, there are 46 faces, but those include announcers, Rey, Evan Bourne, and the Rock. The product is heel-heavy. And all these heels make for a gray static.

    But dig this: All the current champs are faces -- Punk, Sheamus, Santino, Christian, Layla, and Kofi/Truth.


Not that I disagree with you, but isn't there supposed to be more bad guys than good guys for a compelling storyline?



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
    Originally posted by CHAPLOW
    Not that I disagree with you, but isn't there supposed to be more bad guys than good guys for a compelling storyline?


If you have the lone face against a stable, those numbers have to skew heel. Sure. But that seems to force the faces to buddy up, and they don't anymore (Survivor Series is the exception). Someone mentioned recently that Punk should help Cena against Big Johnny. But that would deprive Cena of another super-over underdog angle. The WWE goes for the outnumbered story as default.

If we look at the Horsemen, for instance, each had an individual feud, usually for a midcard title, and then the group would stand together against a top face. We don't get that now. We get very simple wrestler relationships. Or we get sudden relationships -- like Cena and Ryder's friendship that came out of nowhere to give Kane a dog to kick.

For a company that wants to sell merchandise to the kids, more faces should equal more licensed items. Who's buying shirts for Wade Barrett or Jindal or Hawkins or Epico?



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Stefonics
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Who's buying shirts for Wade Barrett or Jindal or Hawkins or Epico?


With the exception of Barrett, heel or face, ain't nobody buying those shirts in mass quantities.

Hasn't WWE always been heel-heavy? This is basically the Hogan playbook v5.0 that they've been running with Cena and it aligns nicely with the original. No other face really matters besides him. They basically reap what they sow and they're fine to keep doing it.



It’s so hard for me to sit back here in this studio, looking at a guy out here, hollering my name! When last year I spent more money, on spilled liquor, in bars from one side of this world to the other, than you made! You’re talking to the Rolex wearin, diamond ring wearin, kiss stealin, WOOOO wheelin dealin, limousine ridin, jet flyin son of a gun. And I'm having a hard time holding these alligators down!
Dionysus
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.79
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker

    For a company that wants to sell merchandise to the kids, more faces should equal more licensed items. Who's buying shirts for Wade Barrett or Jindal or Hawkins or Epico?


I miss the NNNNN shirt era.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
    Originally posted by Dionysus
    I miss the NNNNN shirt era.


And there was another heel faction vs. loner face guy. Another Cena vs. Cobra Kai story.

Without that angle, virtually all those guys are invisible. Daniel Bryan ultimately established himself by ... turning face.

Maybe the problem isn't the polarity, but the inability to distinguish them. For "superstars," a large number of these guys blur together.





"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
(deleted by BigDaddyLoco on 23.5.12 2219)
jerichofan717
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Since: 21.12.10
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#32 Posted on
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Wouldn't it be funny if this Jericho run also ends with him being punted? It's like he's the antagonist in the Randy Orton cartoon Viper & Friends who gets thwarted at the end of every episode with a punt then wakes up and shouts "Randyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!"


Looks like this isn't going to happen. This is what Orton himself said to a follower on Twitter.

.@MrsRko4Ever the punt has been banned. 'Concussional' awareness

Good for WWE for banning the move. No need for these guys to be more at risk for a head injury than they already are.
CRZ
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by jerichofan717
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Wouldn't it be funny if this Jericho run also ends with him being punted? It's like he's the antagonist in the Randy Orton cartoon Viper & Friends who gets thwarted at the end of every episode with a punt then wakes up and shouts "Randyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!"


    Looks like this isn't going to happen. This is what Orton himself said to a follower on Twitter.

    .@MrsRko4Ever the punt has been banned. 'Concussional' awareness

    Good for WWE for banning the move. No need for these guys to be more at risk for a head injury than they already are.

There was no more risk for a head injury than any other move, but they DO seem to be working on eliminating the word "concussion" from storylines and commentary.

This hadn't filtered down to the wwe.com writers, however - the first wwe.com story on John Laurinatis' laundry list of potential injuries from his OTL match with Cena prominently listed "potential concussion" as the very first item, but by the time it came to deliver the promo, Johnny listed everything in the wwe.com story EXCEPT the concussion.



Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
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#34 Posted on
    Originally posted by Oliver
    From a Canadian perspective: The Score's Arda Ocal on the Score is really killing my enjoyment of the WWE programming here. His opinions on "his top five whatevers" really annoy me, and I find myself FFWDing through his schtick.

    Give me back my Renee Paquette or whatever her name was.



She's still doing Aftermath on Tuesdays. I'm generally not a fan of the Score's packaging of their programming, either.
Peter The Hegemon
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Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.67
    Originally posted by Stefonics
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Who's buying shirts for Wade Barrett or Jindal or Hawkins or Epico?


    With the exception of Barrett, heel or face, ain't nobody buying those shirts in mass quantities.

    Hasn't WWE always been heel-heavy? This is basically the Hogan playbook v5.0 that they've been running with Cena and it aligns nicely with the original. No other face really matters besides him. They basically reap what they sow and they're fine to keep doing it.


I have a distinct memory that there was a point years ago where someone posted a roster breakdown here, and I noticed that it seemed disproportionately face-heavy. Everyone told me that more faces = more merch sales.
Lexus
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.51
More heels means more compelling faces. More compelling faces mean more merchandise sales. I'm surprised the WWE hasn't made a new face stable ala DX 1998, and in lesser regards the nWo; those shirts were just as popular as Austin shirts.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
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