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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Supershow #985 4/2/12 (Page 3)
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superfurry
Chipolata








Since: 18.7.10
From: Worcester, UK

Since last post: 132 days
Last activity: 2 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Even if you take out the crowd reactions and the Brock Lesnar appearance, this was still shaping up to be a superior episode of Raw. The pacing of the show was great, and it felt fresh from top to bottom.

Rock's promo was at the upper end of the scale of quality from his current run. Him going for the WWE Championship opens up intriguing possibilities for future feuds. It'll likely be Rock/Cena for the belt, but I'd be interested to see Rock/Punk as well.

Santino continues to be entertaining and it's great to see that Brodus Clay seems to be moving up the card. I thought they might have been holding back on him until after Wrestlemania. They were in danger of killing his heat by doing this, but he seems to have emerged unscathed.

I was slightly underwhelmed by Lord Tensai's debut. The package seems incomplete to me, even though it's very early days. His entrance music isn't nearly menacing enough. And the guy just looks like a freak, one of the strangest looking wrestlers since Goldust in his pomp. In a embarrassed -to -get -c​aught -watching kinda way.

The crowd reactions helped for sure, but Punk dragged Mark Henry to a very entertaining little match. Jericho going all Jerry Lawler to Punk's Jake Roberts was another effective moment in a show full of them taking me back to the feeling of the Attitude era.

It's a shame Sheamus is getting booed as a result of the Daniel Bryan situation. It's not his fault.

I hope we remember this show in a year's time as some sort of turning point.



(edited by superfurry on 3.4.12 1411)


twitter: @superfurry316
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 15 min.
AIM:  
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.57
On one hand, I like Mark Henry getting a manager because it would seem to put those "Mark Henry got pissed about them making him work hurt and then burying him for it so he's quitting" rumors from last month to rest. On the other hand, I don't like Mark Henry getting a manager because I don't ever want to hear someone who isn't Mark Henry talk in Mark Henry's place ever again. Everything the guy says is awesome. Everything!

I wonder if, when they saw how good he was in his title run, anybody in the back had a brief moment of shame and self-doubt when they realized they've had their own Vader sitting on their roster for almost 16 years? Maybe imagining if this Mark Henry faced the Undertaker at a Wrestlemania, thinking about all the Cena vs. Henry PPVs they could have used or a Royal Rumble where Mark Henry just throws guys out all night and yells awesome stuff while alone in the ring waiting for the next guy to come out.

Anyway, yeah, Punk vs. Henry was kinda great for a filler Evil GM punishment match.

The crowd made this show. The "YES!" chant is significantly better than the "WHAT?" because it doesn't interrupt anybody and can be adapted, as we saw with the amazing "NO! NO! NO!" and "SI! SI! SI!" chants. That crowd, man. It will be fascinating to see if this Miami Yes catches on at the next Raw, and whether they mix out or bring up any "YES" chants on SmackDown.

At this point, I almost kind of respect their perverse dedication to pissing off the fans by knowing how over Bryan was with probably mostly the same crowd the night before and deciding to follow it up by not sending him out at all on TV, and then only sending him out to lose in front of the rabid crowd after the show anyway.

Kind of strange that they put the IC title on Big Show - ending Cody's lengthy run instead of sticking with him so he could do an assault on the IC record angle - and yet haven't bothered to mention that the IC title was the only the only thing missing on Show's resume.

I wonder if the original plan(s) for Jericho/Punk had Jericho losing the clean, technical match at 'Mania and only then coming out the next night to start the Punk's family/road to drug abuse to get them to Extreme Rules? That would kind of make a little more sense, though I like what they're doing with it now.

Man, Lord Tensai was a lot more retro than I was expecting. Whoever made the Sultan comparison, as far as presentation, nailed it. He could really use a Mr. Fuji evil-painmaster kind of manager if he's going to be a talented Killer Khan type. Aside from the nearly unforgiveable cut away from the Lesnar handshake, the other big camera goof-up last night was inexplicably cutting to Albert as he was putting the Deadly Hand Mist Capsule into his mouth. Which I guess is OK, since he's not supposed to be a mysterious pale Asian guy, but I would have preferred never seeing him put it in and either telling us or letting us assume that he had experimental surgery while in Japan to have a Poison Mist gland grafted into his throat.

Curious, though, about spitting the Deadly Mist onto his hand and then doing a claw instead of just spitting it right in the eyes. Does putting it on the hand and then keeping up the pressure and contact to the eyes cause more blindness/poison? the mystery of this technique will haunt me until it is revealed. Also BLIND ALEX RILEY ANGLE, please.

    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    Are the fans in attendance chanting the same fans on the boards now?
YES.
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    Is it mostly an internet-savvy audience?
YES.
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    Or is it because of Twitter and other social media?
YES.

Er, sorry. The answer to your question, though, is that when the fanbase takes a hard shift and behaves unexpectedly as they have been with Cena, you react, you get creative.

As touched on above, we've already had the Cena "heel turn." Back during the early Punk/Cena feud in the summer, I made some poorly phrased point that Punk vs. Cena was Austin vs. Bret II, and now we're seeing it. Cena is Bret, we are America, the children of the world are Canada. As people have said for a while, the minute you turn Cena a traditional heel, he becomes a face. But John Cena, The Luckiest And Happiest And Nicest Guy In The World Who Won't Ever Go Away Ever is exactly how to book a megaheel for people who love heels. They still desperatley need to have him show weakness (so the kids can pull for him and the rest can laugh at him), but I imagine Brock Lesnar can help with that just fine.

The whole Lesnar appearance was amazing. There was a moment towards the back end of Cena's speech where he looked down and over at someone and quickly nodded, and I'm dying to know if the person was telling him "OK, they know it's Brock, cut to the chase" or "This is wild, stretch it out some more". The sad end of Brock's MMA career is instantly meaningless after THAT reaction, coupled with the fact that he's still a terrifying looking guy with an incredibly weird head who can toss John Cena around like a ragdoll.

Biggest hope for SmackDown: A masked Teddy Long shows up to cause trouble and Ace/Otunga can't figure out who he is. Possibly called the Midnight Playa. Also, it should be a Doom mask.
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 320 days
Last activity: 313 days
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
I was hoping for a Cena heel turn last night, but all the teases for his promo made it pretty obvious that something shocking regarding his character wasn't going to happen. I was with the crowd chanting for him to just shut up and get to the Lesnar part.

Hindsight is 20/20, but with that crowd it would have been better to do the Rock/Cena/Lesnar bits all together at the beginning of the show. Have Rock start, Cena comes out on the ramp to say his bit, Lesnar's music hits, F5 on the ramp, commercial break. It would have been a long segment but it would be the fallout from the biggest single match in years and would include the return of Lesnar, so I doubt anybody would mind.

The Daniel Bryan support was the best twist of the night. Crazy crowds make the shows so much more fun to watch. The video of his post-Raw promo is surreal when I think about how unlikely of a WWE star he seemed to be at first. He will be a fantastic badass Bret Hart-style babyface someday, but I hope the reaction tonight was just a one-off crowd thing since he's got lots of heeling to do first.

EDIT

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    The sad end of Brock's MMA career is instantly meaningless after THAT reaction, coupled with the fact that he's still a terrifying looking guy with an incredibly weird head who can toss John Cena around like a ragdoll.

    Biggest hope for SmackDown: A masked Teddy Long shows up to cause trouble and Ace/Otunga can't figure out who he is. Possibly called the Midnight Playa. Also, it should be a Doom mask.


The first is perfectly put and the second is the best idea I've heard regarding this GM angle.

(edited by samoflange on 3.4.12 1038)
Tyler Durden
Landjager








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
    Originally posted by CRZ
    Watch it before it's gone!




Kevin Steen tweeted a link to the complete (dark) match and the crowd goes absolutely nuts everytime D-Bryan is in the ring. And if he isn't, they chant "We want Bryan!". It's unreal!

“@KILLSTEENKILL: http://t.co/​​​​​​dUjaWQca Best crowd ever? Maybe!”



(edited by Tyler Durden on 3.4.12 1707)

#WatchROH
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 48 min.
Last activity: 2 min.
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
Apropos of nothing, really, one of the scariest fucking things I've seen in pro wrestling was Brock Lesnar's Shooting Star Press against Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania. I really hope he doesn't try that again.
Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 142 days
Last activity: 142 days
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.81
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      Originally posted by Whattaburger
      Are the fans in attendance chanting the same fans on the boards now?
    YES.
      Originally posted by Whattaburger
      Is it mostly an internet-savvy audience?
    YES.
      Originally posted by Whattaburger
      Or is it because of Twitter and other social media?
    YES.

    Er, sorry. The answer to your question, though, is that when the fanbase takes a hard shift and behaves unexpectedly as they have been with Cena, you react, you get creative.

    As touched on above, we've already had the Cena "heel turn." Back during the early Punk/Cena feud in the summer, I made some poorly phrased point that Punk vs. Cena was Austin vs. Bret II, and now we're seeing it. Cena is Bret, we are America, the children of the world are Canada. As people have said for a while, the minute you turn Cena a traditional heel, he becomes a face. But John Cena, The Luckiest And Happiest And Nicest Guy In The World Who Won't Ever Go Away Ever is exactly how to book a megaheel for people who love heels. They still desperatley need to have him show weakness (so the kids can pull for him and the rest can laugh at him), but I imagine Brock Lesnar can help with that just fine.


OK, let's go with that hypothesis:

1. If it's an internet-savvy audience, then wouldn't the Bryan video above complicate whatever character he's trying to play, especially if the fans cheer his verbal abuse? I'm really not trying to be dense, but I don't get why a heel would pander to the crowd and play sing-along.

2. What does it say about the audience and the greater morality play if "Hustle. Loyalty. Respect."--arguably, these are core American cultural values (i.e., hard work and perseverance yields success and rewards and biceps and bank accounts)--is booed by the audience? Is it a matter of how it's said, not necessarily what is said? Just going off of everyone's explanations, if I'm understanding them right, Cena gets booed, essentially, because instead of whining and complaining about how he got screwed or lost or failed, he dusts himself off, gets back on the horse, and keeps fighting--the quintessential American value: work ethic/determination.

If Cena is Bret, well, Bret was right--and that's why his character worked so well. So Cena must be right. Cena punches the clock every day, works his butt off in the ring, donates a substantial amount of his free time to special causes, and earns an honest keep. Again, speaking about the morality play, isn't that what should prevail? Instead, the moment he turns his back on all of that, he'll be adored. So what's the greater message? Be a smug asshole because people will love you for belittling them and doing whatever it takes to win. Unless that is the core American value: exceptionalism--and the inflated sense of ego, double standards, raw capitalism, and self-serving individualism that goes along with that concept.

Am I misunderstanding something? Because I don't think I'm that naive about the whole product or its purpose. Or is this like some sort of self-loathing on the part of the audience? Is Cena not like the audience, because he keeps going? Has the audience shifted so far to "geek" that a character who doesn't rely on memes and meta-humor and snark and hipster tropes and anything else (latent or manifest) that bleeds over from internet culture into mainstream entertainment cannot succeed?

And that's all for 20 questions and over-thinking all of this.



This is all serious business.
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 20 hours
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AIM:  
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.72
I don't think Cena is getting booed for what he represents. He's getting booed because people are tired of him beating the odds and generally getting shoved down their throats (whether that's real or perceived is another story). I mean, I can probably count on one hand the times Cena has jobbed cleanly over the past five years. WWE puts these perceived roadblocks in his way, but when Cena constantly overcomes them, are they really roadblocks? To a lot of fans, he represents the stale, been-there-done-that feeling that Raw and PPVs have taken over the past several years. I think that's why fans dislike him, not necessarily because of his positive mantras and what he does outside of the ring.



@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 410 days
Last activity: 139 days
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.43

Cena is Superman, Punk/Rock/Brock is Batman. Superman is who everyone SHOULD be. Batman is who everyone WANTS to be.

People are begging for Cena to stand up for himself. To stop being the better man. He doesn't have to spit on a crippled kid, just stop smiling when Rock tears him a new one on the mic.
samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 320 days
Last activity: 313 days
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.96
I don't care at all that Cena doesn't lose. And I don't dislike him because he displays admirable qualities. I dislike him because he plays the same boring character who uses the same boring moves with the same boring smirk on his face. His shirts and slogans are obnoxiously heroic and positive, and that sort of thing makes you a tool to anybody outside of grade school. Most of the time he's got no fire, and even when he does show some fire he goes right back to being the same boring guy, usually within the same match or promo. He plays serious but is never truly serious. That's got to change no matter what direction WWE takes Cena from here.

If WWE wants to spin off a separate kid-friendly show for ages 12 and under or something, this Cena character would be the perfect star. But all signs point to them wanting to win back the teenagers to 30s range, and that's where the massive rejection of Cena comes from.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 hour
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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.10
Geemoney, pretty much hit the nail on the head. Let me also add that Austin was not exactly All American either and get massively over. Kurt's entire heel gimmick was the PG version of Hustle, Loyalty and Respect (Three Is). Fans booed the hell out of that, too. WWE is a Batman audience, they like their shades of grey and violence. The WWF was a a Superman audience who said their prayers and liked good vs. evil. Vince has been trying to go back and shove the Big S down our throats and it has not worked out all the time. Yes, some places like it, but not the Big 4 fans who lived through the Batman years of Killing Joke to Knightfall to No Man's Land to Hush. They have grown up on that and that is what they want. Last night, the WWE crowd showed Vince, Steph, HHH and the entire WWE, they are ready to believe in good wrestlers. Daniel Bryan Rising.

And if you dismiss that analogy, here is the other. Cena also was not exactly sincere last night either and the fans jumped on that. He has been saying since last year all this stuff about how its the most important match of his life and nothing else matter, blah, blah, blah. So, instead of turning straight heel and blaming the fans or anything else for his lose, he just pulled the same promo he does after every time he loses a belt. Sure, the apology was nice, but no one was buying it. So, the fans saw through the quasi heel turn Cena did and cheered the hell out of someone to beat his ass. Granted, that someone turned out to be Brock and made a ton of difference. Brock is going to be the guy who turns Cena heel either by pointing out with Brock gone, Cena got over or he is going to utterly destroy Cena at every turn Cena has no choice but to lose his core beliefs. This thing is ripe for the picking, but the question will be does the WWE have the balls to do it even if its just for this year?

(edited by lotjx on 3.4.12 1114)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.











Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 15 min.
AIM:  
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.57
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
        Originally posted by Whattaburger
        Are the fans in attendance chanting the same fans on the boards now?
      YES.
        Originally posted by Whattaburger
        Is it mostly an internet-savvy audience?
      YES.
        Originally posted by Whattaburger
        Or is it because of Twitter and other social media?
      YES.

      Er, sorry. The answer to your question, though, is that when the fanbase takes a hard shift and behaves unexpectedly as they have been with Cena, you react, you get creative.

      As touched on above, we've already had the Cena "heel turn." Back during the early Punk/Cena feud in the summer, I made some poorly phrased point that Punk vs. Cena was Austin vs. Bret II, and now we're seeing it. Cena is Bret, we are America, the children of the world are Canada. As people have said for a while, the minute you turn Cena a traditional heel, he becomes a face. But John Cena, The Luckiest And Happiest And Nicest Guy In The World Who Won't Ever Go Away Ever is exactly how to book a megaheel for people who love heels. They still desperatley need to have him show weakness (so the kids can pull for him and the rest can laugh at him), but I imagine Brock Lesnar can help with that just fine.


    OK, let's go with that hypothesis:

    1. If it's an internet-savvy audience, then wouldn't the Bryan video above complicate whatever character he's trying to play, especially if the fans cheer his verbal abuse? I'm really not trying to be dense, but I don't get why a heel would pander to the crowd and play sing-along.

    2. What does it say about the audience and the greater morality play if "Hustle. Loyalty. Respect."--arguably, these are core American cultural values (i.e., hard work and perseverance yields success and rewards and biceps and bank accounts)--is booed by the audience? Is it a matter of how it's said, not necessarily what is said? Just going off of everyone's explanations, if I'm understanding them right, Cena gets booed, essentially, because instead of whining and complaining about how he got screwed or lost or failed, he dusts himself off, gets back on the horse, and keeps fighting--the quintessential American value: work ethic/determination.

    If Cena is Bret, well, Bret was right--and that's why his character worked so well. So Cena must be right. Cena punches the clock every day, works his butt off in the ring, donates a substantial amount of his free time to special causes, and earns an honest keep. Again, speaking about the morality play, isn't that what should prevail? Instead, the moment he turns his back on all of that, he'll be adored. So what's the greater message? Be a smug asshole because people will love you for belittling them and doing whatever it takes to win. Unless that is the core American value: exceptionalism--and the inflated sense of ego, double standards, raw capitalism, and self-serving individualism that goes along with that concept.

    Am I misunderstanding something? Because I don't think I'm that naive about the whole product or its purpose. Or is this like some sort of self-loathing on the part of the audience? Is Cena not like the audience, because he keeps going? Has the audience shifted so far to "geek" that a character who doesn't rely on memes and meta-humor and snark and hipster tropes and anything else (latent or manifest) that bleeds over from internet culture into mainstream entertainment cannot succeed?

    And that's all for 20 questions and over-thinking all of this.


It's interesting because there's John Cena the guy and John Cena, the character, and both factor in.

On the character side, back to Bret for a minute. Bret was right at the time, and in similar ways to Cena. He was the sinister midcarder who turned into underdog champion who lasted juuust long enough to make it to Face of the Company, and right when he did at WMXII, the crowd starts to lose interest for a (relatively) newer, more interesting model. Again, from a character standpoint, Bret did get screwed in the Iron Man match (Michaels couldn't beat him in 60 minutes and was, in fact, about to lose) and in later title matches. He takes a sabbatical and uses that time to publicly champion Austin, the talented guy on the verge of breaking through. He remains a nice guy, but the crowd doesn't want that anymore and dumps him for Michaels and Austin, and he can't figure out why.

The differences are that Cena knows why - because he's seen it happen before and because he's a post-Attitude era guy who gained popularity in the first place by changing into a loudmouth creep who pissed on people's graves - and that, unlike Bret's brief "retirement" post-WMXII, Cena isn't going anywhere.

The actual, big feud isn't Cena vs. anybody or Bryan vs. anybody, it's the fans vs. company and the fans vs. the fans. The last 12 years has been the company saying "Here's what we're giving you" and the last year has been the crowd saying "Here's what we want". Where it ties into Cena is the crowd turning on the "Hustle" part: Punk tells the company that they fire or waste guys who can entertain the crowd, HHH says he's wrong, and all ya gotta do is get the fans to like you; fast forward to the Strange Tale of Zack Ryder and Daniel Bryan's 18 Second Adventure and that argument could be made that the crowd has decided to put HHH/WWE Management's theory to the test. Ryder and Bryan bring the hustle, the crowd wants to know who has the muscle, yeah?

Consider that the people who cheer for The Rock and Brock Lesnar are the people who remember Stone Cold Steve Austin and the nWo, or at least remember other people remembering them. Nobody pandered to the crowd and played sing-along more than the nWo and The Rock - both heels at the time. And Austin is, at once, the ultimate example of the crowd saying "NO, WE CHOOSE THIS GUY" both because he's not the traditional face and because he's clearly the most talented guy, and daring the company to do anything other than listen.

As it happens, Austin existed pre-Youtube and pre-Twitter, but is Austin's ECW "Monday Nyquil" promo all that different than Ryder's web show or Punk at Comicon in form, or Punk's Summer of Punk II promos? Is Cena giving shoutouts to his pal Ryder all that different than nWo Kevin Nash yelling "Where's The Dog at?!"

(And that's where Cena the guy comes back in...if John Cena wasn't a pro wrestler, he'd be the loudest, funniest guy in that crowd booing John Cena, starting hilarious "SI! SI! SI!" chants, wondering why they don't put awesome guys like CM Punk, Zack Ryder and Daniel Bryan on TV more. I mean, he comes out and says these things anyway, it just happens that John Cena the character is the reason why John Cena the guy doesn't get to see his favorite wrestlers on top. How amazing is that?)

But yeah, last time this happened, WCW and the WWF made a lot of money when the crowd picked The Wrong Guys (Austin, The Rock, the nWo, DX) and the company reacted (and lost a lot of money when they forgot it). And now the big, crazy, brain-dewrinkling meta angle is that John Cena now literally represents the company saying "Oh, we hear you, but we don't care and what are you gonna do about it?"

Wrestling is theater, it's carnies stealing money from dopes. And if they're smart, creative and motivated, there's a lot of money to be made working fans who think they know all about getting worked. And that's kind of exciting.
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 400 days
Last activity: 361 days
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.95
    Originally posted by Whattaburger

    Here's my honest question: How do you make a heel nowadays?

    If you sell like a crash test dummy and/or beloved performer of a former time, the people love you for that.

    If you're smug and make inside-jokes and references to the tropes and characters of the same era in which fans say they want to get away from, they cheer you.

    Tell your girlfriend to shut up as you expound on the popularity of a random word and the people cheer you. (And no, I don't think it's like Savage-Elizabeth, for anyone wanting to make that reference, because that character-dynamic was on a different level entirely. I don't see Bryan as the same kind of popular jock/seems-physically abusive-type.)

    Be a good guy who everyone on the roster says goes above and beyond for the company, the charities, and even the rest of the roster? And the people hate your guts until you tell them off...at which point they will cheer you for telling them off.

    Look, I've been a wrestling fan my whole life...but I still can't wrap my head around it. Is it a question of the audience? Is it the wrestlers? Is it all of it? Do we just want a full roster of tweeners and quasi-characters? No one stands out that way, in my opinion, which is a complaint we've all heard. You know, sometimes I'll watch like one of the early Survivor Series or Rumbles and from tag teams to the mid-card, you had wrestlers that were pretty-well defined. This was even the case during the early Attitude Era.

The way I see it, the post-Raw moment with Bryan was "smart" wrestling fans telling a performer that they appreciate his character. Off television. I think Bryan can easily get boos in his interaction with AJ.
1. He needs to up the ante with his dickishness.
2. They need to show AJ being hurt by his actions, not physically but emotionally. I think that's what's most missing right now. He acts like a dick to her, and we don't get any sense that she cares.
3. They need someone else interjected into it. I'm not saying she can't be a strong female role model who speaks up for herself, but at some point that kind of storyline is supposed to lead to a match, right? So they need someone involved that can lead to some sort of resolution match.

You can do all 3 in one fell swoop if you'll excuse my fantasy booking. On Smackdown, Bryan yells at AJ, blaming her for the match. He throws her out of his dressing room. We see her crying in the hallway. Face wrestler of your choice consoles her, tells her she can do better. A chaste hug, which is seen by Bryan and misconstrued. And you're off and running.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 52 min.
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.92
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    You can do all 3 in one fell swoop if you'll excuse my fantasy booking. On Smackdown, Bryan yells at AJ, blaming her for the match. He throws her out of his dressing room. We see her crying in the hallway. Face wrestler of your choice consoles her, tells her she can do better. A chaste hug, which is seen by Bryan and misconstrued. And you're off and running.


Zack Ryder does need a rebound girl, and the audience reactions would be strong: YES! WOO! YES! WOO!



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
DJ FrostyFreeze
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 9 hours
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.04
Read it and weep, fella


    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Zack Ryder does need a rebound girl, and the audience reactions would be strong: YES! WOO! YES! WOO!
That's actually a good idea, but Ryder + AJ might be a little TOO much "middle school romance" for me. Then again, it worked with Molly Holly + Spike Dudley way back when, so who knows.



CLICK OR DIE
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 4 hours
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#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.68
As someone pointed out, Cena is Superman in the WWE now, which means he can't be Batman...

Okay, that sounds obvious, if not vague in meaning. Also a poor comparison, but I'll get to that.

The WWE is going in a new direction. The End of an Era happened on Sunday, after all, that means new stars have to be made. Nevermind that Henry, Show, Tensai (hey, you like how I used his current name there?), and Kane were all in the Attitude Era anyhow, the era that ended was the pre-Attitude, where HHH and Taker originated.

And yes, aspects of the Attitude Era are returning; pageantry in gimmicks such as Brodus Clay, Lord Tensai, Jinder Mahal (he's a match away with R-Truth naming the box he puts his turban in), and Kane are your new Godfather, Sultan, Goldust, and Kane. The Rock. People are saying 'ass' more. Jericho broke a bottle of whiskey over Punk's head. At Extreme Rules, I wouldn't be surprised to see a blade job or two as someone gets busted wide open. All we need now is a Cena heel turn to seal the deal.

That turn will not come.

The Cena heel turn would be equivocal to the Hogan turn in '96. Necessary for Hogan to stay afloat, not the business itself, but it did boost business for WCW dramatically, which caused the WWF to follow suit and ramp up their business. Would the Cena heel turn yeild a boom in ratings, PPV buys, and overall merchandise sales? Maybe, Maybe, and No; as evidenced by last night's show, Cena has yet another shirt, and you always see a few people in attendance wearing the same in kind.

Instead, Cena is a new creation in business that generally recycles ideas, but at the same time he's a very familiar concept. People can liken him to Bret, but Cena never complained to the fans and ask why they were booing him and cheering the other guy (which is what made Bret a heel), he just took it in stride, and kept performing to entertain his fans; those people in attendance wearing the same shirt as him, with a full color spectrum of Cena shirts in their closet, and the kids he spends time with while he does his charity work.

Can you imagine the sheer amount of dying kids this poor bastard has met in his life? Kids in hospital beds, coughing their lungs out, puking their brains out, soiling themselves because they're too weak to get out of bed; these are the people John Cena goes to visit. And he doesn't complain about it, or shove it in the face of the WWE Universe when they boo him, nor gloat and tell people this is why they should respect him. He just does it.

As such, John Cena is Captain America from the Civil War arc. He is the guy standing by his principles, delivering for the good of the people, not looking to further himself. As such, he must lose. He's become tragically anachronistic in relatively short time.

How this all pans out, I have no clue. You could shelf him for a while, and have him come back to annihilate someone the fans are pissing all over because they're being shoved down their throats in some bizarre Cena saves us from Cena scenario. Or, you could put him on a rediculous losing streak; jobbing out here and there, everywhere, like he's lost it, then shazang, huge upset win.

Crowd made a good show amazing. I marked out when Brodus came out to help Santino, and Dolph Ziggler is our new bump machine, ladies and gentlemen. I don't like Lesnar, but good call by the WWE to bring him in anyway.



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 48 min.
Last activity: 2 min.
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
      Originally posted by Whattaburger

      Here's my honest question: How do you make a heel nowadays?

      If you sell like a crash test dummy and/or beloved performer of a former time, the people love you for that.

      If you're smug and make inside-jokes and references to the tropes and characters of the same era in which fans say they want to get away from, they cheer you.

      Tell your girlfriend to shut up as you expound on the popularity of a random word and the people cheer you. (And no, I don't think it's like Savage-Elizabeth, for anyone wanting to make that reference, because that character-dynamic was on a different level entirely. I don't see Bryan as the same kind of popular jock/seems-physically abusive-type.)

      Be a good guy who everyone on the roster says goes above and beyond for the company, the charities, and even the rest of the roster? And the people hate your guts until you tell them off...at which point they will cheer you for telling them off.

      Look, I've been a wrestling fan my whole life...but I still can't wrap my head around it. Is it a question of the audience? Is it the wrestlers? Is it all of it? Do we just want a full roster of tweeners and quasi-characters? No one stands out that way, in my opinion, which is a complaint we've all heard. You know, sometimes I'll watch like one of the early Survivor Series or Rumbles and from tag teams to the mid-card, you had wrestlers that were pretty-well defined. This was even the case during the early Attitude Era.

    The way I see it, the post-Raw moment with Bryan was "smart" wrestling fans telling a performer that they appreciate his character. Off television. I think Bryan can easily get boos in his interaction with AJ.
    1. He needs to up the ante with his dickishness.
    2. They need to show AJ being hurt by his actions, not physically but emotionally. I think that's what's most missing right now. He acts like a dick to her, and we don't get any sense that she cares.
    3. They need someone else interjected into it. I'm not saying she can't be a strong female role model who speaks up for herself, but at some point that kind of storyline is supposed to lead to a match, right? So they need someone involved that can lead to some sort of resolution match.

    You can do all 3 in one fell swoop if you'll excuse my fantasy booking. On Smackdown, Bryan yells at AJ, blaming her for the match. He throws her out of his dressing room. We see her crying in the hallway. Face wrestler of your choice consoles her, tells her she can do better. A chaste hug, which is seen by Bryan and misconstrued. And you're off and running.


Where's George the Animal Steele when you need him?
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 1 hour
Last activity: 45 min.
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.18
I have to take expectation to Cena is Captain America in Civil War. I'll try not get too nerdy about this, but I guess I am not the only one making Bats and Sups analogy, so I digress. During Civil War, when the government said they were going after the heroes, everyone expected including SHIELD that Cap would be the one leading it. Cap said No, it was wrong and put him against the machine that made him. He was the one that delivered one of the best speeches given by Mark Twain to Peter about telling the government to move when they were wrong. Cena is not doing that. Cena is Tony Stark.

He believes what he is doing is right, because its what the machine wants and if he makes a bit of profit out of it like say new shirt each month, so be it. The man is going to have his own Green Lantern Rainbow Corp of shirts before its done. He does shove the sick kids in our face. Like that Children's Miracle shirt that he wears and the hour fluff piece we got last week. Cena like Stark is using all that charity work to hide behind the fact he is the machine. Yes, he may play around with cool characters like Ryder, but look what happens to them afterwards. Ryder is a joke. Cena did no favors for Ryder when they were together and took giant beatdowns for him. Ryder is the Peter Parker of this thing. Hell, he even lost the girl to WWE's boring Mephisto. Cena losing should have been the moment where he turned against the machine and said "Screw it, I am doing what the people want." He did not and just like Tony, he won't.

If anyone is Cap its Punk and that is a giant stretch. Punk was part of the system even though he was viewed as a second stringer. He did win titles, but was not a major thought. He did tell the machine to go to hell and has lead a movement against the machine. That photo of him and the new generation in the fall in was the Civil War team. Those guys all lost at Mania minus Punk. The machine thought this was a good idea and then the people revolted. Last night and the night before sent the message. We know what we want and if we don't get it, get ready to be YES out of the building. And we do get it, we will love you for it. Granted, how long will the Brock/Rock euphoria last is up to the WWE, but they need more than just Super Cena to face off against those two guys. The fans want to see Bryan, Punk, Ryder and the others get the rub that Cena has been getting for the last ten years. That is why they revolted last night, they want change and they want it now. Vince gave it to them in a weird sorta of way with Rock saying he is coming back and Brock returning as well as giving Bryan the mic at the end. I do know if Vince has gotten the full message, but it sorta looked like it at the end that shockingly only the Internet saw.

(edited by lotjx on 3.4.12 1350)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.











Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
Did anyone notice, even as Brock was approaching the ring, that Cena STILL managed to do the smirky grin?

He's never going to change is he? Next year maroon t-shirt, the year after that yellow t-shirt, and on and on and on.
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 48 min.
Last activity: 2 min.
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.70
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Did anyone notice, even as Brock was approaching the ring, that Cena STILL managed to do the smirky grin?

    He's never going to change is he? Next year maroon t-shirt, the year after that yellow t-shirt, and on and on and on.


To be fair, at that point Storyline Cena had no idea if Lesnar was going to be friend or foe.
dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.45
It's wrestling, even storyline Cena should know that nobody interrupts a promo to walk down and shake your hand and have a friendly chat.

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