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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Supershow #978 2/13/12 (Page 2)
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El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 23 hours
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.43
    Originally posted by Big Bad
    El Nastio, fantastic post on Triple H's character. As much as I wasn't into the idea of yet another Undertaker/HHH match at Wrestlemania, they're presenting this angle is a very interesting way.


Thank you kindly, good sir.

Corporation H's promo hit on another key point; "the end of an era". He's right, it truly is the end of an era, and I was along for the ride. In fact, this message board was.

For seven or so years The W has been here, and for seven years we were witnesses to a fantastic era of wrestling. I stopped watching wrestling, but I started watching again around the time of The Rock vs Billy Gunn. Things truly started to pick up around the time of the McMahon-Helmsly era, and continued as they are to this day.

But look at the remnants of that time period, and lets see something:

Jericho is 41, Triple H is 42. Michaels is 46. Kane is 44. Golddust is 42. Mark Henry is 40. Christian is 38. Over at TNA, Bully Ray is 40.

Cena is 34, CM Punk is 33. Randy Orton is 31. Daniel Bryan is 30. Cody Rhodes & Zack Ryder are 26.

I thought TLC 2011 was ushering in the new guard, but it isn't. This, more so than any other PPV, will be it. Consider the following matches, which could very well happen:

The Rock vs John Cena, past cornerstone with the future/present cornerstone.

Kane vs Ryder, in a battle between a guy whose always been in the upper midcard and someone who is trying to position himself as in that area.

Jericho vs Punk, in a battle between the most well rounded wrestler during the last era, and the future most well rounded wrestler. With the WWE title at stake (possibly), this is a match which could lead to a true changing of the guard.

A World Heavyweight title match which they want to burn the house down with, with two "youngsters". That's why I think Bryan will hold onto the belt until Mania, or at least be in the match; they want him because they know the match will look great.

I could even see something happening with Cole, a member of the old guard, where Matthews gets his chance to shine as the #1 Commentator.

A MITB match the celebrating the future company. Kofi, Rhodes, Orton.

And a match that celebrates the past, as they move forward. Undertaker vs Triple H. It has to happen, we need to recapture the magic of the era one last time.

(edited by El Nastio on 14.2.12 0858)
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
Beth Phoenix's "DING GLAM SLAM DING" shirt must be authorized by Apollo Creed.

Rocky: "You wanna ring the bell?"
Apollo: "Ding ding."

Cena told Ryder to stay in his ultra-secure private dressing room and he was going to go get Eve and bring her to him. An hour later, Cena had done nothing of the sort and was standing around with Josh Mathews.

John Cena is a cock blocker.

@EveMarieTorres
I'm only human.



@BackoftheHead


www.backofthehead.com

(V) (;,,;) (V) ZOIDBERG
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 53 min.
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.54
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Beth Phoenix's "DING GLAM SLAM DING" shirt must be authorized by Apollo Creed.

    Rocky: "You wanna ring the bell?"
    Apollo: "Ding ding."



Natalya: "You fart great, but I'm a great farter."



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Kei Posiskunk
Kolbasz








Since: 7.1.02
From: Central PA, USA

Since last post: 173 days
Last activity: 124 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.25
So, can we say that Zack Ryder got the biggest push of his career, last night?

(edited by Kei Posiskunk on 14.2.12 0950)





My username is kind of inaccurate, now...
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 2 days
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
Naw he's totally being buried despite being involved in the number one angle on Raw and being the only sympathetic character in the whole storyline WWYKI
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.14
The Debate, well it wasn't anymore or less embarrassing than the GOP one which is what they were going for. Punk was killing me with his non-verbal cues from clapping, looking at the fans and shrugging "This is going to be retarded, but I can't stop it." When R-Truth was doing his God Bless America, Punk had his hand on his heart, awesome. As bad as this could have been, it showed off everyone pretty well. Ziggler looks more comfortable on the mic then ever before. Miz seem to be set-up to be Jericho's next opponent. Kofi did a great job of selling the underdog value. Jericho was great and R-Truth was the right type of crazy. I know people are going to love the HBK/HHH promo which yes, was great, but it was kind of fun to see what could be another potential train wreck on WWE, actually do a good job of putting over all the competitors.

HHH/HBK. I agree with CRZ, it went on forever. Now, yes it was compelling, but after the chill that went up my spine when HHH said "Its all going to be mine." The rest just seemed a bit unfocused. HBK did a great job of calling HHH out including the whole jab at him for not beating Taker, but as someone said before, neither has HHH. Shawn as usual brought the goods to the mic throwing the Steph hints, the HHH is a coward and that he doesn't believe the corporate argument. If anything, they made a good job of turning HHH heel even if that was not what they were going for. Which is why I say its unfocused. There were a lot of smoke and mirrors before HBK arrived with both Hunter and Taker's reasoning for their decisions. Now, there is an entire fun house built around it. It could lead to good things or we could all get lost in it. Shawn could have cut a straight promo that said, "If you don't fight him then don't claim you beat him, because you didn't" Instead we went through a lot of twists and turns without a real destination.

Cena/Eve/Ryder/Kane. Eve has to be in on it. I mean no one is this bad of an actor. I have no idea how they are going to get themselves out of this bind of Cena looking like a d-bag, Ryder losing a lot of his heat, Eve turning on Cena at the right moment and Cena beating Kane while getting ready for Rock as well as trying to be a semi-face. If they are going to turn Cena heel or know he is going to be booed out of the building then Rock has to win. If anyone can maybe save this storyline its Rock, but I don't know how.

(edited by lotjx on 14.2.12 0901)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
RedLion79
Longanisa








Since: 12.7.11

Since last post: 117 days
Last activity: 37 days
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.57
    Originally posted by Kei Posiskunk
    So, can we say that Zack Ryder got the biggest push of his career, last night?

    (edited by Kei Posiskunk on 14.2.12 0950)


Nice... looks like he finally went over
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3 days
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.55
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Yeah. Starting to think Triple H vs. Undertaker will have a significantly better build than Rock vs. Cena. Hunter, Taker, and Michaels' combined wrestling IQ is a lot higher than Rock, Cena, and WWE Creative's.
I don't even know what the Rock vs. Cena build is anymore. They just keep playing the same clips of the Rock smiling on talk shows instead of being The Rock and reminding old fans/filling in new fans that The Rock was exactly the kind of guy who could have pissed Cena off. And Cena now just gets interrupted and doesn't even talk about The Rock anymore. Definitely not the same kind of "we are the greatest ever and now one of us must die!" build up for HHH/UT. I'd love to know what they think they're going for with Rock vs. Cena since Survivor Series.

    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    I'm pretty sure WWE turned Eve heel tonight, but I'm not sure if they know they turned Eve heel based on the closing angle.
I have enough faith in the general, institutional misogyny of the wrestling business to assume they intend for people to boo Eve now.

    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    I'm not sure what Undertaker saw to make him cut off his 'hair' though.
What if the "everybody has to cut their hair except Edge and HHH" memo from 2002 just finally reached Undertaker's movie studio loft, and he's complying to help thaw HHH's heart?

    Originally posted by graves9
    Maybe I've lost my freaking mind but this Cena-Kane feud has become so bad it's now good.
No, I agree. It's not "good for business" I'm sure, but it's incredibly entertaining. As Emma pointed out, some of it comes from the really, weirdly poor production of things like Eve calmly climbing in the ambulance and Kane being cued to start a segment. But mostly, it's just so, so goofy. The fact that this is Kane's master plan...Or that lonely shot of him slowly backing the ambulance down into the arena again after realizing that he was surely ranting and cackling to an empty ambulance...The image of Ryder zipping off to his death and that wheel spinning away while he was dead on the fllor...Or, my personal favorite, Kane proving that he cares more about the Wrestlemania Brand than anyone else by explicitly pointing out that he was only going to hurt Cena bad enough that Cena would be out for a few weeks but would still be able to compete against The Rock at 'Mania.

Man, too bad HHH couldn't have realized that he was in line to inherit the company and it would have been in his best interests to build superstars and not destroy them at Wrestlemanias nine or ten years ago. My biggest problem with that HHH/HBK/A Film By The Undertaker segment...well, besides
    Originally posted by CRZ
    MAN that HHH/HBK segment went on FOREVER.

What exactly does Chief Operating Officer/WWE heir HHH actually think the Undertaker is going to do at Wrestlemania if HHH isn't going to face him? He established that WWE financially needs the Undertaker to defend The Streak every year, but he also, unfortunately, established that everyone employed currently by the company who isn't The Undertaker or HHH is some half-assing slacker who doesn't "leave it all in the ring every time" unlike HHH/HBK/UT. Shouldn't he be all "Hey, Deadman, I'm not gonna fight you at Wrestlemania, but we have tons of awesome, talented Superstars the WWE Universe would love to pay money to see you face instead, like The Great White™ Sheamus or perhaps you'd like to face the Barrage® of that no-good bare knuckle brawler Wade Barrett or the smoke and mirrors© of the sinister Cody Rhodes!"? Otherwise, as a WWE senior executive, he's gotta be sweating what exactly is going to be on the Wrestlemania card something fierce right now.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Whatever happened to "The Funkasaurus" Brodus Clay
Mr. Costanza remarked to me "This never happened."

Highlights of the night: Punk's "Vote for me!" and Truth following with an actual campaign speech, Miz blowing two lines in his debate moment, Kofi getting a nice little speech and looking good vs. Jericho, Otunga getting sooooo close to doing an "Ahhhhhhhhhh!" after taking a sip from the thermos, Kane gleefully pushing Ryder off the stage and that guy signalling Kane that the cameras were about to come on and he should close the ambulance doors after the cameras were already back on.
RedLion79
Longanisa








Since: 12.7.11

Since last post: 117 days
Last activity: 37 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.57
Concerning the last segment, someone needs to tell Eve that crack is whack
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    I have enough faith in the general, institutional misogyny of the wrestling business to assume they intend for people to boo Eve now.


Oh yes. WWE heard the WWE Universe loud and clear on this one. They heard the deafening silence every time Eve comes out to wrestle, and they definitely heard the boos when Eve comes out to help Zack Ryder. Take Royal Rumble - they BOOED her when she came out to watch in horror as Kane Tombstoned Calamity Zack. Normally, you don't boo the girl trying to help her boyfriend out, but the WWE Universe was ahead of Creative on this one - Eve ain't Zack's girl and never wanted to be.

Universe, you are now free to hate Eve to your heart's content. Embrace the Hate.

Poor Calamity Zack. Insane bump maestro Mick Foley on Zack's bump, which made me legit yell "Holy shit!" when I saw his knees hit the floor from the fall:

Mick Foley: “Wow, sincerely hope @ZackRyder is going to be ok. – that looked like a nasty landing. Ankles, knees, spine all looked to be in jeopardy."

"Yeah, @Joeystyles I’m legit concerned for @zackryder. There’s just way too much risk there. That fall off the ramp might not be something you can get through with fortitude and ice packs. Zack has such a bright future; I hate to see his knees, ankles and spine at such risk. That’s the type of thing that could cost him weeks or months at the most vital time of his career."

(edited by John Orquiola on 14.2.12 0751)


@BackoftheHead


www.backofthehead.com

(V) (;,,;) (V) ZOIDBERG
Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 32 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
    Originally posted by El Nastio
    This is the culmination of the entire Triple H character at this point...


"How HHHermes Requisitioned His Groove Back" is what you've described, basically.

I know we all understand and have come to accept the executive-political dynamics in place, but the way in which this angle comes off, it's just...discouraging.

Hunter Hearst Helmsley: the End All and Be All of professional wrestling.

Again, it's really making the Undertaker, the quintessential WWE superstar, come off like a desperate weirdo in all of this. You're right, the mystique is gone and he needs to get it back, but he won't. "All of this is going to be mine." So he beats Triple H, who really doesn't lose in the end because he will inherit a multi-billion dollar international media company. It's also discouraging, as someone else here pointed out, that there is no Hogan to the Undertaker's Andre. There's no one--no one--who fans, young and old, can look up to as a moral hero, or someone they identify with on a personal level (e.g, Bret Hart) because for one reason or another the characters available have explicit or implicit flaws. Say what you want about Hogan, but arenas were still colored red and yellow at least until 1992; I don't see great big bowls of Fruity Pebbles out there now. That's money and historical significance that seems like it will be lost due to years of poor foresight and bad decisions.

Again, it could just be that I'm unable to read between the lines and see the subtext.



This is all serious business.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 53 min.
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.54
Hunter/Taker reminds me of the awesome Wrestlemania X8 angle between Taker and Flair. Taker antagonized Flair for a match before casually stepping away when an enraged Flair called him out.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.14
I think Punk could be Hogan to Taker's Andre. The fans are firmly behind him even after the missteps of the fall. The real question is will they? Probably not. They are still stuck with their Cena and HHH blinders on when it comes to Mania time. If anyone could use the rub from beating Taker and firmly cementing themselves as a legend, its Punk.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 6 min.
AIM:  
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.63
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    There's no one--no one--who fans, young and old, can look up to as a moral hero, or someone they identify with on a personal level (e.g, Bret Hart) because for one reason or another the characters available have explicit or implicit flaws. Say what you want about Hogan, but arenas were still colored red and yellow at least until 1992; I don't see great big bowls of Fruity Pebbles out there now.


But isn't that the point? WWE had been trying to make Cena that person for so long, but the fans rejected it. On TV now, every show features a hero character with flaws; people don't like Cena because, up to this point, he's been perfect and the person everybody is SUPPOSED to look up to. But it's not the 1990s anymore and fans don't want that, hence the booing by half (or more) of the crowd.



@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
ICQ:  
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.43
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
      Originally posted by El Nastio
      This is the culmination of the entire Triple H character at this point...


    "How HHHermes Requisitioned His Groove Back" is what you've described, basically.

    I know we all understand and have come to accept the executive-political dynamics in place, but the way in which this angle comes off, it's just...discouraging.

    Hunter Hearst Helmsley: the End All and Be All of professional wrestling.

    Again, it's really making the Undertaker, the quintessential WWE superstar, come off like a desperate weirdo in all of this. You're right, the mystique is gone and he needs to get it back, but he won't. "All of this is going to be mine." So he beats Triple H, who really doesn't lose in the end because he will inherit a multi-billion dollar international media company. It's also discouraging, as someone else here pointed out, that there is no Hogan to the Undertaker's Andre. There's no one--no one--who fans, young and old, can look up to as a moral hero, or someone they identify with on a personal level (e.g, Bret Hart) because for one reason or another the characters available have explicit or implicit flaws. Say what you want about Hogan, but arenas were still colored red and yellow at least until 1992; I don't see great big bowls of Fruity Pebbles out there now. That's money and historical significance that seems like it will be lost due to years of poor foresight and bad decisions.

    Again, it could just be that I'm unable to read between the lines and see the subtext.


Even those characters had flaws. Heenan saw through Hogan and pointed out the flaws the entire time; and it wasn't until The Bash where he was finally vindicated. Bret Hart, of course, had flaws of his own. People just chose to ignore the flaws, or disregard them. When that happens again, we'll see "another Hogan"-type character.

IS the Undertaker the quintessential superstar? Triple H and Michaels can make the same claim. So can Kane, for that matter.
Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 32 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.80
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I think Punk could be Hogan to Taker's Andre. The fans are firmly behind him even after the missteps of the fall. The real question is will they? Probably not. They are still stuck with their Cena and HHH blinders on when it comes to Mania time. If anyone could use the rub from beating Taker and firmly cementing themselves as a legend, its Punk.


My editorial risk didn't pay off.

TL;DR: Punk is not Hogan and will never be Hogan (character-wise); it's a matter of core personality. The natural, human aspect of the Hulk Hogan character (1980s), was humble and people could believe in him (again, this has nothing to do with Terry Bollea). Punk is Piper and Piper, at his core even as a face, was still a jerk.

(edited by Whattaburger on 14.2.12 0843)


This is all serious business.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 19 hours
Last activity: 18 hours
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.47
Cena played along with 'Cena Sucks' but he actually seems bothered by the Cena Hate a little like Bret Hart when he could no longer be the hero. The time to turn Cena was against Punk. It would have been organic. This feels forced. I feel awkward watching Cena talk about being comfortable in his own skin while looking like he might cry.

Maybe he is a better actor than I give him credit for, but it feels like he is being a heck of a company solider for no real reason.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 2 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    Cena played along with 'Cena Sucks' but he actually seems bothered by the Cena Hate a little like Bret Hart when he could no longer be the hero. The time to turn Cena was against Punk. It would have been organic. This feels forced. I feel awkward watching Cena talk about being comfortable in his own skin while looking like he might cry.



You loco, man. Seeing Cena's positive facade slowly crumble under a barrage of weekly abuse until he just can't stands no more is a GREAT way for him to turn, or it would be if they had intention of actually turning him. A turn against Punk would've been silly, because Cena being Mr. Good Guy was exactly the foil that made Punk's anti-everything character soar.
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 12 days
Last activity: 12 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    UNDERTAKER HAS SHORN HIS LOCKS FOR REBIRTH AND VENGEANCE.





You askew my mirror. I askew yours.
Behold, my plunger.
Anagrams posted to http://twitter.com/paragonSMASH
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      UNDERTAKER HAS SHORN HIS LOCKS FOR REBIRTH AND VENGEANCE.




Fantastic. My second favorite Undertaker theme, after American Bad Ass.

I. Am. An American Bad Ass!
Watch me kick!
You can throw with rocks
Or you can [Radio Edit]




@BackoftheHead


www.backofthehead.com

(V) (;,,;) (V) ZOIDBERG
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Related threads: RAW Supershow #977 2/6/12 - RAW Supershow #975 1/30/12 - RAW Supershow #974 1/23/12 - More...
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