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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Supershow #971 1/2/12 (Page 3)
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John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 80 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.24
Now that Jericho's back - if he's back full time - if I'm The Miz (and I'm AWESOME), I'd be looking to pack my bags and go to Smackdown after this R-Truth business finishes up. Smackdown could use a top heel like Miz. Jericho left before Miz ascended to the top of the card but they fall into the same category as heels and Jericho just outclasses him on every level, save youth. I'd also be sitting under Jericho's learning tree as much as possible because Jericho has the one thing Miz still seems to lack: the credibility as a smaller heel who can talk to still be perceived as a threat.



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.24
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    I'd also be sitting under Jericho's learning tree as much as possible because Jericho has the one thing Miz still seems to lack: the credibility as a smaller heel who can talk to still be perceived as a threat.


Does that come from wrestling your ass off? Jericho's previous run on SmackDown featured brilliant matches with Rey and Taker, for instance. The reversals alone stole the matches.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 3.1.12 0736)


"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 21 hours
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.01
That is the probably with Miz, he is an average worker who really can't bring it in the ring. Then again, how much of that is creative or the agent's fault. The same problems Bryan is going through is the same one Miz had at this time last year. Beating wrestlers by the skin of his teeth. If Miz had dominated someone like Herny did with Orton this year then we might be talking about Miz being an MVP. Yet, he needed help in every match he was in while Bryan is relaying on blind luck.

(edited by lotjx on 3.1.12 1012)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 77 days
Last activity: 75 days
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.82
There is a slight physical difference between Miz and Mark Henry.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 21 hours
Last activity: 17 hours
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.01
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    There is a slight physical difference between Miz and Mark Henry.


True, but there is no reason for Miz not to beat the crap out out of a Kofi or a face R-Truth at the time. He needed to be feed mid-carders and won clean. I don't count Morrison due to the fact there is no such thing as a clean finish in specialty matches. He also didn't need to look bad next to King. The problem with Bryan/Rhodes besides time was that Cody should have tapped out. People like Cody should be feed to a world champion.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 77 days
Last activity: 75 days
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.82
People like Cody are just as important to the future of the company as people like Bryan.

I don't think anyone should've been "fed" to Miz, per se. He should've won more matches clean, but beating folk senseless doesn't work for him. At all. The Morrison match was the perfect example of how he should've been booked - strong, lengthy wins over established midcarders in between stealing wins from the top faces. All told Miz's title run was probably one of the best first-timer reigns in quite a while. It's the followup they've botched.
Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 425 days
Last activity: 154 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.90
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
      Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
      Jericho's return. First thing that came to mind was Andy Kaufman reading The Great Gatsby.



    I was thinking the exact same thing. I even said to my son that Jericho was doing a Andy Kaufmann.

    The problem is that my son (like the rest of the young WWE audience) replied "Who???"

    I didn't like Jericho's return and this is why. Just like with Andy Kaufmann fans, the hardcore wrestling fans look at what Jericho did and say it was comedic genius (and maybe it was). But the majority of the other WWE viewers will think it was just stupid, not funny at all and one huge disappointment. It was just a long drawn out Kaufmann-like bit that just made the return become uncomfortably unfunny. Like I said, some people will say it was genius, but most will just have a disappointed "WTF was that???" response and possibly be turned off from RAW.

    I don't see how doing something like this to the fans helps the ratings.


I expect an explanation promo next week to make sure the average fans get on the train. Probably about how the fans are sheep and easily manipulated.
El Nastio
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Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
ICQ:  
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.83
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I think if you want to see why Ryder deserves his push, look at his facial reactions during that main event from being in the ankle lock to Kane almost dragging him to hell to the fiery explosion. He sold the hell out of all that while it did look a bit cartoony, he helped solidified that entire feud. And he will continue to be awesome as the best friend that stands by the hero til he gets killed or chickens out and then gets killed. Either way the destruction of Ryder is going to be or should be a huge plot point for the rest of the year. Cena and Ryder at the end reminded me of Brody and Hooper in Jaws after the shark blows up.


Strongly agree. Ryder sold both the Ankle Lock + the being dragged into Hell like a champ. Of course, he'll get blamed for poor ratings for the reasons I listed above.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    People like Cody should be feed to a world champion.


Strongly disagree. Cody is the IC champ, and has worked to transform the belt into something meaningful again. He and Ziggler are obviously being groomed to be the newest heels, so they don't want to damage Rhode's momentum.

------

I watched a bit with a couple of friends yesterday, and one of them said "Daniel Bryan is out of place as the world champ and has no charisma". I tried explaining to him "he's one of the best in the world, but he was having none of it. He used the pinfall victory over Rhodes as an example. If that's the reaction the WWE wants, that's the one they're getting.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.24
Alex Riley should have been Miz fodder. Give him that face turn and some initial competitive matches, yes, but a NXT protege should not beat a world champ, regardless of the angle.

Miz has the credibility of breaking pins after taking Cena's finisher. He's halfway there.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 80 days
Last activity: 80 days
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.24
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    All told Miz's title run was probably one of the best first-timer reigns in quite a while. It's the followup they've botched.


I second this. I thought Miz had a very positive six month WWE Title run and was an excellent ambassador for the company on talk shows and media appearances. After losing the title, booking him where Alex Riley (Where Am I Now?) "had his number" cut him off at the knees and he never quite recovered. Miz however does fall under the category of being one of the few guys who are one well-timed, well-conceived good promo away from re-positioning himself as a top guy at any point.

But running around backstage terrified that R-Truth is going to hit him on the head with a plastic water bottle again isn't doing Miz any favors.

(edited by John Orquiola on 3.1.12 0841)


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KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.77
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
    I was thinking the exact same thing. I even said to my son that Jericho was doing a Andy Kaufmann.

    The problem is that my son (like the rest of the young WWE audience) replied "Who???"
I don't know if that's a problem. It's probably better for someone to think "hey, he's being a dick" or even "hey, this is original and funny" than "hey, he's ripping off this other guy."

I thought the Jericho thing got funnier the longer it dragged on, but I can see how it would turn people off. I'm not sure entertaining me should be a bigger goal than trying to sell tickets or PPVs or what have you.
Mr Shh
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Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 19 days
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.24
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by Kevintripod
      I was thinking the exact same thing. I even said to my son that Jericho was doing a Andy Kaufmann.

      The problem is that my son (like the rest of the young WWE audience) replied "Who???"
    I don't know if that's a problem. It's probably better for someone to think "hey, he's being a dick" or even "hey, this is original and funny" than "hey, he's ripping off this other guy."

    I thought the Jericho thing got funnier the longer it dragged on, but I can see how it would turn people off. I'm not sure entertaining me should be a bigger goal than trying to sell tickets or PPVs or what have you.

But Jericho's job *right now* isn't to sell tickets or PPVs. That's Punk's job. Keep in mind that Jericho's return was in the not-so-high-profile 10:30 segment. All Jericho has to do right now is not turn viewers away. Are we really thinking WWE risked losing a large percentage of RAW's audience with Jericho's return last night? We're going to see Jericho's plan evolve over the next 4-5-6 weeks, after which we'll know his endgame. *That's* when it'll be his job to (help) sell PPVs.



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Wpob
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Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#53 Posted on
Jericho = Genius

I can't even tell you how happy I am to have my favorite all time wrestler back. And this promo was outstanding. I would have liked it better when just as he was about to leave, he would have stopped smiling, turned and left. But as one of the top three promos wrestlers EVER, I trust his direction.

Welcome back Y2J. I have missed you badly.



Life is hilariously cruel.







dwaters
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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.98
    Originally posted by Kevintripod
      Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
      Jericho's return. First thing that came to mind was Andy Kaufman reading The Great Gatsby.



    I was thinking the exact same thing. I even said to my son that Jericho was doing a Andy Kaufmann.

    The problem is that my son (like the rest of the young WWE audience) replied "Who???"




EXACTLY what I came here to post.

My son has been trying so hard to figure out who it was from the vignettes and fell asleep before the segment. I imagine he was some disappointed once he watched on DVR. I watched on fast-forward and it was still too long.

Doing something long past the point of being funny doesn't make it genius. Just watch any drawn out musical number or gag on Family Guy.

This may have been great to those who "got it", but it can't match his debut, which was awesome for all the fans who were watching, not a handful.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 day
#55 Posted on

Re: the whole Miz/Jericho discussion ... Jericho should be used to build to a Miz face run ... One could argue that he's the most marketable star in the company.
Enojado Viento
Potato korv








Since: 12.3.02
From: Your Grocer's Freezer, NC

Since last post: 685 days
Last activity: 11 days
#56 Posted on
My favourite bit of the night was that kid looking absolutely terrified when R-Truth handed him the mic and he wondered for a few terrified seconds what crazy-ass R-Truth wanted him to say.

"Awkwardness" seemed to be the theme tonight, I guess.




-LS

"ahhh...vague, mandatory knee-jerk cynicism. God Bless Internet Forums.."
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.77
    Originally posted by dwaters
      Originally posted by Kevintripod
        Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
        Jericho's return. First thing that came to mind was Andy Kaufman reading The Great Gatsby.



      I was thinking the exact same thing. I even said to my son that Jericho was doing a Andy Kaufmann.

      The problem is that my son (like the rest of the young WWE audience) replied "Who???"




    EXACTLY what I came here to post.

    My son has been trying so hard to figure out who it was from the vignettes and fell asleep before the segment. I imagine he was some disappointed once he watched on DVR. I watched on fast-forward and it was still too long.

    Doing something long past the point of being funny doesn't make it genius. Just watch any drawn out musical number or gag on Family Guy.

    This may have been great to those who "got it", but it can't match his debut, which was awesome for all the fans who were watching, not a handful.


But it wasn't supposed to be awesome for the fans. It wasn't supposed to impress or excite people or make them happy. It was supposed to take the typical return celebratory love-in and annoy and upset the fans and make them feel stupid and manipulated. To be a heel, to feud with babyfaces, like say Mr. Voice of the Voiceless Cult of Personality. Parasites/hypocrites/sheep/axiomatic etc.
dwaters
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Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.42
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    It was supposed to take the typical return celebratory love-in and annoy and upset the fans and make them feel stupid and manipulated.


Couldn't he have manipulated them in 1/4 of the time it took?
I see what you mean, this builds him up as a heel, but as a stand alone TV segment it was horrible to sit through.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 2 hours
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.77
    Originally posted by dwaters
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      It was supposed to take the typical return celebratory love-in and annoy and upset the fans and make them feel stupid and manipulated.


    Couldn't he have manipulated them in 1/4 of the time it took?


That's a good question -- I'm curious if he expected them to turn on him outright sooner. They were still happy and chanting through multiple laps around the ring and increasingly ridiculous panderings. And by the end, there was still just a smattering of boos. I wonder if he has the balls to do the close to the same thing next week and how long the crowd would stick with him if he did.
odessasteps
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MD, USA

Since last post: 91 days
Last activity: 58 days
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03

The length of the awkwardness is what made it great.

For an example, I give you the infamous Rake Sequence from The Simpsons' Cape Feare episode.



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Dude, that was bitter. Of course, what scares me is the only thing I can really disagree with in that is the whole apathy towards Regal's return, since disgusted Regal faces rule! And the Val Venis thing, since Val really is a walking cure for insomnia....
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