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26.7.14 0007
The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Supershow #958 10/3/11 (Page 3)
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Cerebus
Knackwurst








Since: 17.11.02

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.52
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Just stop.


    Originally posted by CRZ
    Oh, come on.

    Oh, snap - Justin and I are in sync


Maybe my computer's broken, cause I don't see anywhere in these replies where you explain to me that I'm wrong.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    I think we have to look at the HHH walk out from two different perspectives. The casual fan and the IWC. The fans have been behind 100% as COO even when he faced off against Punk. They were cheering for him during that entire promo and even turned on Lawler, the voice of reason. They even booed the hell out of the faces including the voice of Raw. I would say a good chunk of these fans don't know, HHH 1999-2006.


I used to be a HHHater. I was one of you people where, no matter what Triple H did, I would hate it. Since then, I've changed my ways. I choose not to see the WWE as the rest of you people do. I might still read the wrestling newz sites an what not, but I don't really care about the behind the scenes crap anymore, because it doesn't make my enjoyment of the show better, it makes it less enjoyable.

Look at the people in the audience. They all seem to be having fun. Most of them don't give a shit about Triple H holding down the talent. They follow the story and how the characters in front of them react to what is happening on screen or in the ring or when the camera is on. The back stage politics have nothing to do with you and should not effect how you perceive what is shown on camera... because it's just a television show.

A few years ago, the cast of NCIS threatened to walk off the show because they didn't like the direction head writer and show creator Donald P. Bellisario was taking the series. CBS fired Bellisario who is now trying to sue CBS for creating NCIS: Los Angeles without his input. So... does any of this make effect how you watch either of those two shows? Not at all, I would assume.

I choose to see the product as just another weekly TV show with actors playing characters. Why is this so hard to do for all of you people? As I keep saying, the WWE is being directed towards the live audiences who buy tickets week after week and buy all the merchandise and pay for the PPVs and accept it for what it is. It is not being directed towards the people who bitch about every little detail like a title belt with a white strap instead of a black one, or complaining about titles switching hands every few weeks, or watch a pirated streamed PPV and then bitch about it cause you don't like it even though you didn't pay for it.

CM Punk's new title of 'Voice of the Voiceless' is stupid because the 'voiceless', IE the Internet, doesn't deserve a voice. If you... no, we cause I too have streamed PPVs before, are not paying that $50 for a show like the rest of them, you have no right to bitch and complain.



(edited by Cerebus on 4.10.11 1246)

Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 27 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33
    Originally posted by It's False
    This whole entire angle feels like it's going to wind up being Just Another Vince McMahon Master Plan. It really does.


Wait. Wait wait wait. My God. I have to pick up the pieces from my mind being blown. Are you saying there could be some sort of... greater power... behind all this turmoil all along?



@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
Chumpstain
Kolbasz








Since: 21.1.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 45 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Maybe my computer's broken, cause I don't see anywhere in these replies where you explain to me that I'm wrong.


I'll do it since Justin and CRZ didn't want to take the time, then.

There's this thing called "hooking the viewers". While traditionally, the champion enters second, you don't always see that on TV anymore because they want to get people interested to stay around. When the champion is, say, John Cena or Randy Orton or another popular wrestler, they often come out first for TV matches even as the champion because then the viewer who might be inclined to channel-surf sees the big star entering and says "Well, I want to stay and watch this".

In this particular case, they intended for most of the entrances to occur during the commercial break, and the match to start right after it. There were, what, 10 different entrances to do? Assuming Air Boom and Ziggleswag come out together. So knowing they were going to go to a commercial break, they aired CM Punk and John Cena's entrances, so that people knew they were going to be in a match, and would be wanting to catch it after the break.

Your theory is that CM Punk is being buried because his entrance came before David Otunga's. This is completely nonsensical, and borderline idiotic. They aired Punk and Cena's entrances specifically because they're the two biggest stars in the match, to hook the fans. How can you take that as an attack on Punk? How can you have the gall to complain that Punk entered before Otunga so management is down on him, while ignoring that Cena also entered before Otunga? Otunga's entrance wasn't even televised! It's a stupid point, made by someone who clearly doesn't understand how these things work, someone who is looking for any excuse to gripe.

There, I took the time to explain why you were wrong.
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.06
I just love how everyone just assumes that because someone is on the internet talking about a show, they are illegally downloading it. If you are rich or stupid enough to pay $150 in the past six weeks for PPVs that is on you. I am going to buy Survivor Series, I bought Mania. I am also going to Raw, albeit free, but I have paid before and will probably buy Punk's shirt. So, exactly why shouldn't I get a voice again? I guess, we should all wear blinders and don't care the show has once again devolved into the HHH ego boost even though anyone who knows anything about HHH backstage could see this coming.

My original point is about the HHH storyline not everything else. Sure, the Raw belt is about as meaningful as an impulse candy buy at the grocery store. Yet, everything is good to pretty great when they are on. Wrestling is not a movie either. A movie project has a goal of putting out a movie. Wrestlers have a goal of making money for themselves to live off of. The more exposure you get the more money you make. Yes, you have a partner with you out there for the wrestling, but its also about promo work which can and will hurt your career as well as others. If you get buried on the mic, your career will suffer. If Matt Damon fucks up a line, there is a retake or doesn't like a line, it will get re-written to his liking.

(edited by lotjx on 4.10.11 1106)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.







Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 24 days
Last activity: 22 days
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.83
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I am going to buy Survivor Series, I bought Mania. I am also going to Raw, albeit free, but I have paid before and will probably buy Punk's shirt. So, exactly why shouldn't I get a voice again?

    (edited by lotjx on 4.10.11 1106)


It's not that you shouldn't have a voice, it's that you shouuldn't operate under the assumption that your voice is more correct or important than that of the majority of fans pumping money into the company.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.30
    Originally posted by Cerebus
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Just stop.


      Originally posted by CRZ
      Oh, come on.

      Oh, snap - Justin and I are in sync


    Maybe my computer's broken, cause I don't see anywhere in these replies where you explain to me that I'm wrong.

      Originally posted by lotjx
      I think we have to look at the HHH walk out from two different perspectives. The casual fan and the IWC. The fans have been behind 100% as COO even when he faced off against Punk. They were cheering for him during that entire promo and even turned on Lawler, the voice of reason. They even booed the hell out of the faces including the voice of Raw. I would say a good chunk of these fans don't know, HHH 1999-2006.


    I used to be a HHHater. I was one of you people where, no matter what Triple H did, I would hate it. Since then, I've changed my ways. I choose not to see the WWE as the rest of you people do. I might still read the wrestling newz sites an what not, but I don't really care about the behind the scenes crap anymore, because it doesn't make my enjoyment of the show better, it makes it less enjoyable.

    Look at the people in the audience. They all seem to be having fun. Most of them don't give a shit about Triple H holding down the talent. They follow the story and how the characters in front of them react to what is happening on screen or in the ring or when the camera is on. The back stage politics have nothing to do with you and should not effect how you perceive what is shown on camera... because it's just a television show.

    A few years ago, the cast of NCIS threatened to walk off the show because they didn't like the direction head writer and show creator Donald P. Bellisario was taking the series. CBS fired Bellisario who is now trying to sue CBS for creating NCIS: Los Angeles without his input. So... does any of this make effect how you watch either of those two shows? Not at all, I would assume.

    I choose to see the product as just another weekly TV show with actors playing characters. Why is this so hard to do for all of you people? As I keep saying, the WWE is being directed towards the live audiences who buy tickets week after week and buy all the merchandise and pay for the PPVs and accept it for what it is. It is not being directed towards the people who bitch about every little detail like a title belt with a white strap instead of a black one, or complaining about titles switching hands every few weeks, or watch a pirated streamed PPV and then bitch about it cause you don't like it even though you didn't pay for it.

    CM Punk's new title of 'Voice of the Voiceless' is stupid because the 'voiceless', IE the Internet, doesn't deserve a voice. If you... no, we cause I too have streamed PPVs before, are not paying that $50 for a show like the rest of them, you have no right to bitch and complain.



    (edited by Cerebus on 4.10.11 1246)


I love this post
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 3 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.28
    Originally posted by wannaberockstar
    I detest the division of wrestling fans between "casual fans" and "IWC/Internet fans" because, at the end of the day, it's all entertainment. It is possible to like Triple H, John Cena, and Randy Orton and also like CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, and others. I know I do - because they entertain me.

    If the fans are cheering and enjoying something, then what is the difference? The wrestlers are all working for the same company, whose goal it is to entertain you. I see the whole "being buried" complaint as being relevant as complaining that Matt Damon is burying another actor just because he had more lines in a script of a movie.

    Maybe it's just me but I don't see the point of watching (or even talking about something) if you're not enjoying it.


Back in 2002, about 70,000 people cheered their asses off for Hogan against The Rock. The next night, he got a nearly 5 minute standing ovation. They put the belt on him the next PPV and well, things didn't go so well after. I get that the fans in the building were into it, but seeing as ratings aren't the best, it's possible that there might be a disconnect between the die hards that buys the tickets and will go to the shows no matter what, and the 'casual' fans that check in every once in a while to see if there's another "Stone Cold" or "Rock" that they can follow. If someone enjoys it, then great. And you're right, it is just entertainment. But, as a wrestling fan, sometimes I feel like I have to dumb things down way too much lately and it's not the greatest feeling. I'm supposed to ignore things like Punk and Cena not being out there for the no confidence votes, Miz and Truth assaulting referees and cameramen then making YouTube videos less than 24 hrs after being arrested or Sheamus and Cena being buddy/buddy in a meaningless tag team event because 'it's just a show and it's entertainment', but I'm already watching a show where guys hit each other 10 times in the face and don't get knocked unconsious. Is it THAT unreasonable that I ask for the storylines to not venture in to the ridiculous or actually have something to do with... wrestling? I mean, the reviewer at WON said it best: In the past, there's been cars blown up, wrestlers getting assaulted and gang beatdowns and now it's out of control because of the Miz and Truth? Why it is 'negative' to look at this and question it a bit?

Maybe I'm the wrong kind of fan, as I've been watching for over 20 yrs and at this point, I'm not going to stop being a fan (although I don't nearly watch as much as I did 10 yrs ago). Perhaps I'm not the fan to cater to, as they know that they will always get the attention of a fan like me. I hate the fact that I enjoy these shows in a vacuum or have to pick out certain this that I might enjoy (like the Henry/Orton storyline), but just be bored and/or not entertained by the direction in general. I hate the fact that I have to 'enjoy' WWE because 'it's better TNA', because God forbid I can enjoy both. It's not about HHHate or whatever you want to call it. Personally, the guy is talented, but after a while, people get tired of things. TV shows end, characters on cops shows leave, new ones get introduced and I feel like HHH has been in my life since I was 5 doing HHH things. At some point, no matter what a guy does, you just want something... different. And right now, with the WWE, it's just not happening, because it's the same people doing (slightly) different things. I don't care who's the COO or the GM or whatever of a ficticous fighting brand. I care who's the best 'wrestler' or who's up and coming that could challenge the champ. Yes, they both mean 'nothing' in the 'real' world, but to me, one means more.



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 day
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.36
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by John Orquiola
      And quite frankly, I agree with Triple H. Whatever happened to just fighting? You take a licking, you come back the next week, and you give worse than you got. That's what this business is all about.


    And in that spirit, I'd rather see Awesome Truth ground through a gauntlet to atone for their actions instead of arrested and taken away.


That's another thing. This could still be on the table, but I would have thought that the obvious line of booking would be to reinstate Awesome Truth and toss them into the Vengeance main event with Cena and Punk, but they probably don't even remember they HAVE a PPV coming up. Instead, we got two 20-minute promo segments of Superstars, Divas, and referees whining and crying.

Shut up and wrestle! Someone needs to keep the spirit of Larry Z alive!

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by It's False
      This whole entire angle feels like it's going to wind up being Just Another Vince McMahon Master Plan. It really does.


    Wait. Wait wait wait. My God. I have to pick up the pieces from my mind being blown. Are you saying there could be some sort of... greater power... behind all this turmoil all along?


If Vince comes out in a black hood and screams "IT WAS ME, HUNTER! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!", don't say I didn't warn you.




"I brought SCIENCE!"
KJames199
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.32
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    I love this post
This thread is spiraling out of control. I call all posters together for a vote of confidence regarding CRZ's leadership.
Tyler Durden
Frankfurter








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.99
Orton, Cena and Punk (and Rock) are probably on Triple H's Survivor Series team, that's why they weren't to be seen. Just my guess.

Or maybe ... CM Punk is the evil master behind all of this! There you go. Doesn't make sense, but could do wonders for the rating ... one week's rating that is.
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 11 min.
AIM:  
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.21
    Originally posted by Cerebus


      Originally posted by geemoney
      Stupid “what” chants from the crowd.


    Anyone who complains about this has no right to complain about the PG era WWE because the 'What' chants were started by Austin in the attitude era. You can't have one without the other. If you hate the chants, then you should hate Austin and not the legacy he left us with.

    (edited by Cerebus on 4.10.11 0255)

Uhhh...what? Maybe we can't have the PG Era without the Attitude Era, but the "what" chants were such a small part of that era, I see no reason why you're even bringing it up and attaching it so strongly to that era.

I may hate this legacy that Austin left us with, but I'm pretty sure I don't have to hate him for it, as he did other, much more important stuff that means more than random "what" chants. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

(edited by geemoney on 4.10.11 1329)


@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
Vaderblade
Longanisa








Since: 4.10.11
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 22 days
Last activity: 3 days
#52 Posted on
    Originally posted by It's False
    If Vince comes out in a black hood and screams "IT WAS ME, HUNTER! IT WAS ME ALL ALONG!", don't say I didn't warn you.


Only if Vince borrows Flair's "Black Scorpion" voice changer and does a few weeks of stage magic first!
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 27 days
Last activity: 27 days
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.33
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      I love this post
    This thread is spiraling out of control. I call all posters together for a vote of confidence regarding CRZ's leadership.


I was actually about to make this exact same post.

But now that you have, I will not attend such a gathering.*

(* Although I have every right to. After all, for months I have been the victim of virtual assaults by aloiuqrO nhoJ and CRZ has done nothing to stop him!)

(edited by John Orquiola on 4.10.11 1041)


@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
Lexus
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Stafford, VA

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.18
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      I love this post
    This thread is spiraling out of control. I call all posters together for a vote of confidence regarding CRZ's leadership.


Heh, following the WWE's logic, CRZ should step down because he happened to be here when things went screwy.

As far as what the discussion turned into, I think the keyword, unfortunately, is elitism. A crowd of people on TV cheering somebody that you don't cheer and disagreeing with them is one thing. Dismissing them as casual or less of a fan than you, be it because you've been watching longer, you know more about backstage practices, or for any reasons and by proxy attempting to elevate yourself to some other, higher standard is another; it creates a glass ceiling that newer fans may never exceed in your eyes (and nobody likes a glass ceiling). Everybody is entitled to an opinion, especially those with opinions that are conflicting to yours, and it's a terrible shame to attempt to belittle or rebuff an opinion without the least bit consideration.

Case in point, it's like saying you like a band and some asshole telling you what it's really like to like that band because of what it was like with the original bassist or how they've gone downhill. It's like saying you like cheesecake and some asshole telling you how there's a better brand out there and how what you're eating can be improved. It's like saying you like a baseball team and some asshole telling you you're not a real fan because they were there in '95 when they had a losing season from hell. I think there's a pattern in there somewhere...

Anybody else think Mark Henry is being built up as a monster to face Undertaker at Mania?



"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Frown and the world laughs at you."
-Me.
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 4 days
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    I mean, the reviewer at WON said it best: In the past, there's been cars blown up, wrestlers getting assaulted and gang beatdowns and now it's out of control because of the Miz and Truth? Why it is 'negative' to look at this and question it a bit

It's not, although I think including the referees in this is a very nice touch. It's a small thing that legitimizes the threat a wee bit more. When you start attacking refs, and they start talking about it, you know this shit just got real.

You know what that last segment needed? The Muppets. If only they waited a few more weeks.



You askew my mirror. I askew yours.
Behold, my plunger.
Anagrams posted to http://twitter.com/paragonSMASH
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 38 days
Last activity: 38 days
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Spiraling_Shape

    The 12-man match was a lot of fun, nice to see Sheamus get the big win. (Why can't he still be the "Celtic Warrior"?)


He is undeserving of that title until he runs to the ring with long hair and blue facepaint wielding a two-handed claymore.

As for Vickie I would agree but she looks like her head is at least a couple decades older than the rest of her body; It's like a tragic photoshop job. I am more admirant of my love Kaitlyn, who if she's reading this can come away with me and we could post on forums together under the starry skies.




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JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 13 min.
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.25
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
      Originally posted by wannaberockstar
      Also, the finishing sequence of that 12 man tag match was pretty awesome.

    Well, yeah, except for the part where Bourne ducked out of the ring, forgetting that he was supposed to take the Cross Rhodes. He almost brought the sequence to a screeching halt.


I wondered if he forgot or if he just flew so far that his momentum took him out of the ring. Cody was funny, getting in and getting out and getting in again.

During the layout when they planned the finish I also wondered if everyone stopped and laughed when they asked Otunga what his finisher was and he didn't have one. "I dunno. Neckbreaker? Yeah, my neckbreaker. The Dave&Buster." May have been a tribute to the McGillicutter. New Nexus really exploded during that match. Touching that May-Ry still has Punk's back.

Mason's physique is more preposterous than anyone in WWE since the Warlord. Whatever Otunga's putting in his coffee mug is working too, must be hitting the BOWflex to get back to NXT heyday size.


    My favorite moment of the closing segment absolutely is Mark Henry's wag of the finger at HHH.


I liked Primo's disgust. He wasn't having it.


    You know what that last segment needed? The Muppets. If only they waited a few more weeks.


I was hoping the final somber shot would be after JR left, with Hornswoggle crawling out from under the ring and sadly shaking his head and leaving.

    Originally posted by Lexus
    Anybody else think Mark Henry is being built up as a monster to face Undertaker at Mania?


Their first-ever meeting at Wrestlemania!!!
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 372 days
Last activity: 101 days
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by Cerebus

      Originally posted by geemoney
      Stupid “what” chants from the crowd.


    Anyone who complains about this has no right to complain about the PG era WWE because the 'What' chants were started by Austin in the attitude era. You can't have one without the other. If you hate the chants, then you should hate Austin and not the legacy he left us with.

    (edited by Cerebus on 4.10.11 0255)


I despise the "What?" chants and I still love Austin. Personally, I consider the Attitude Era over at Wrestlemania 17 with the WCW purchase. So everything following was the interim period to what we have no.

I was considering starting a thread about how "What?" is racist because it is disproportionately used against African American wrestlers, but this will suffice.
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 15 hours
AIM:  
ICQ:  
Y!:
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by Scottyflamingo
    I despise the "What?" chants and I still love Austin. Personally, I consider the Attitude Era over at Wrestlemania 17 with the WCW purchase. So everything following was the interim period to what we have no.
Personally, I consider the 90s over by 1996. The period of time between 1996 and 2000 was an interim period.

    I was considering starting a thread about how "What?" is racist because it is disproportionately used against African American wrestlers, but this will suffice.
No, please, elaborate. Convince us that you actually believe that horseshit.



dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 3 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.84
I think I've finally figured out a way to stop the "What" chants.

Before the show, promise a match after the show featuring a wrestler not scheduled to appear that night (Orton, Undertaker, somebody, maybe a Diva wet T-Shirt contest). If they start the chants, the match is off, but if they're quiet they get the match.

They've got to do something because it's really distracting.

I used to hate R-Truth and Mark Henry and now I look forward to seeing them, so there's proof you can make anyone interesting with the right booking.

I really like Mark Henry now because he's got a Goldberg-like "Can anybody stop this guy?" streak going, only as a heel. I don't know if we've really had that since Kane debuted.
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According to Spiketv's website, this week's show was titled Roode in the Crosshairs. That irked me too. I wanted to see Devon vs. Anarchia or some other random match like that.
- Dionysus, Impact Wrestling 5-17-12 (2012)
Related threads: RAW Supershow #957 9/26/11 - RAW Supershow #956 9/19/11 - It's Time to Face the Music - THE MUPPETS on RAW - More...
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