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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW SuperShow #955 9/12/11 (Page 2)
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Since: 18.5.04
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.78
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    And then he gets to voice over that pretentious self-serving piece of shit auto-fellatio 9/11 package designed solely to remind us of the heroic WWE standing up at a terrible time, as if there weren't a hundred prominent companies or organizations you could name who did fifty times more for the families of those lost. Not all of this is Cena's decision but all of it makes me dislike him.


Actually, WWE kind of should pat themselves on the back for this one a little bit. Among media scholars, WWE's first post-9/11 show is considered important for improving the cultural atmosphere of the United States after the attacks. As much as professional wrestling--WWE in particular--catches a lot of flak or is otherwise ignored by mainstream popular media, it does have this special place in people's hearts and minds. Professional wrestling does speak to the underpinnings of American popular cultural, even if it doesn't speak loudly or well all the time.



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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.48
    Originally posted by Derrick
    First post in years... I'm probably in the minority here but I think HHH made a lot of sense in his promo tonight. Punk on the other hand came across as being a cry baby. I'm not sure if thats what they intended but that's how I see it.

I think it's safe to say that's what one of the parties involved intends for people to think! The problem remains that HHH is continually positioned as a face in this feud, and as Shapiro points out, it's killing Punk. All of the things Punk would need to say to win this feud are things he can't say for the good of wrestling (that HHH is lying about telling people the truth to their faces when he actually did all his shit-talking in meetings; that Bret got pushed when he did because they couldn't push the giant bodybuilder types then and that Misterio IS a hugely-built bodybuilder dude in his WWE incarnation, just really short; that they consistently ignore people getting over on their own and cut their pushes out on a lark or to "test" them), so Punk's arguments are gutted.

But, at the very least, I do think they mean for HHH and Punk to both be faces at the moment regardless of whether it's the right move, because the "Hey, seriously man, why aren't these mics working for Punk?!" bit at the end is obvious foreshadowing that someone continues to do evil things behind HHH's back, and Truth/Miz wanting HHH gone means HHH is still supposed to be a face. The question will be whether there's anyway to do the PPV finish that doesn't make Punk look weak (either he gets yet another non-clean ending when someone sticks - Nash's final contribution to the wrestling world! - HHH or the show ends with Punk knocked out).

In other news, Ricardo is still great. I wish there was a way they could compeltely ignore the body type issue and do a crazy cutaway when Evil Sin Cara is finally unmasked so it can be Ricardo under the hood, and no one would question it. I continue to be baffled, though, by the decision to have Cena consistently bury Del Rio's gimmick. Who thinks that's a helpful idea?

Other random things: Loving Mark Henry right now, and I agree that perfect fantasy booking would be Unstoppable Mark Henry vs. Daniel Bryan for the World Heavyweight Title at Wrestlemania. Also, I hope they're setting up a Ziggler face turn out of this. All indications are that he can cut a promo for himself, and Ziggler full-on feuding with a Vickie stable would be perfectly fine US Title material.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Oh, and if I still did OUR so-called SPORT Year End Awards, Kelly Kelly vs. Vickie Guerrero would be Match of the Year.
Forget the match (OK, don't forget the match), the promo that set up that match? Emmy reel for Kelly Kelly and Vickie, no doubt. The crackling tension and gritty, real, actorly flair they brought to that scene made Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul's scenes on Breaking Bad look like garbage in comparison.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    That September 11th thing was just grand. Thank you WWE for fixing 9/11.
I did think it was a little tasteless how they had Cena constantly refer to the terrorist attacks as the "Big Apple Takedown".
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    I continue to be baffled, though, by the decision to have Cena consistently bury Del Rio's gimmick. Who thinks that's a helpful idea?


John Cena does.

    Originally posted by the good Dr
    Forget the match (OK, don't forget the match), the promo that set up that match? Emmy reel for Kelly Kelly and Vickie, no doubt. The crackling tension and gritty, real, actorly flair they brought to that scene made Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul's scenes on Breaking Bad look like garbage in comparison.


What about Kelly Kelly's Sixth Sense that Beth Phoenix was about to run in where she immediately springs from the turnbuckle, meets Beth with a big boot, and hightails it with butterfly aloft as Beth fumes in the ring? Kelly Kelly = Most Followed Diva in the WWE. Because she's the SMARTEST.

This is classic Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner booking. Kelly is the Road Runner, she won't go down. MEEP MEEP.



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Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    I continue to be baffled, though, by the decision to have Cena consistently bury Del Rio's gimmick. Who thinks that's a helpful idea?


I forgot to mention how absolutely badass ADR looked in his entrance before the match. Towel, belt, medallion, white outfit, and an effective game face. He was working it.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
Not looking forward to the finish of Cena/ADR. Obviously ADR needs to keep the belt, but Cena's coming off of two practically clean PPV losses so they're not going to let Del Rio get what he needs - a wily tap-out finish, or maybe Cena passing out in the armbreaker. I'd settle for Del Rio going full rudo and pulverising his arm with a chair or something, but I've a feeling we're going to get something closer to Christian escaping with the belt via DQ at Money In The Bank.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    Not looking forward to the finish of Cena/ADR. Obviously ADR needs to keep the belt, but Cena's coming off of two practically clean PPV losses so they're not going to let Del Rio get what he needs - a wily tap-out finish, or maybe Cena passing out in the armbreaker. I'd settle for Del Rio going full rudo and pulverising his arm with a chair or something, but I've a feeling we're going to get something closer to Christian escaping with the belt via DQ at Money In The Bank.


Here's the thing, and I should really have left this for the pending NOC prediction thread, but if Orton loses to Henry and Punk loses to Triple H, both of which have a pretty good likelihood of occurring, WWE would consider John Cena winning the WWE Title back is the happy ending the WWE Universe deserves.

Unless of course WWE considers Babyface in the Right, Father, Husband, and MAN Triple H beating Babyface in the Wrong, Whiner, Complainer, WWE Title Hostage-Taker, and Skinny Fat Ass Jerk Who Took Business and Made It Personal CM Punk the happy ending the WWE Universe deserves. I'd say this is likely.

(edited by John Orquiola on 13.9.11 0738)

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lotjx
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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.90
HHH winning will be the death knell for the Punk storyline. Punk has to win and it can't be do to Kevin Nash or whoever the higher power is screwing the microphones fucking it up. Punk has to win clean. Anything else would be further diminishing a storyline that is starting to look old.

Cena will lose to DQ, go nuts and then we will forget about on Raw as he once again wins a number one contender's match he has no business being in. Cena/ADR is the single worst thing they have done in awhile. Minus the fact that is boring as hell, do we really need the underlying racism in this thing? Yet, ADR/Cena is not the match I am most worried about besides Punk, its Miz/Truth vs. Air Boom. Air Boom needs a win, because Miz/Truth have been tearing them up. If they want the tag titles to mean something they have to keep the belts on Air Boom for more then a few weeks.

(edited by lotjx on 13.9.11 0948)


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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.48
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      I continue to be baffled, though, by the decision to have Cena consistently bury Del Rio's gimmick. Who thinks that's a helpful idea?


    John Cena does.
You're probably right, I've just been ragging on Cena enough lately that I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe someone's telling him to wreck this guy's character instead of him doing it on his own for no discernable reason. At least Michaels waited for the match against Hogan to goof on him. Cena dismantling Del Rio's perfectly fine gimmick every week would be like if Michaels had, out of nowehere, dropped a "Oh, and by the way, everybody knows you don't have mythical superpowers and you only work that way because you're just a hobbled old guy" in the middle of one of their Mania build up promos. Only, you know, with considerably lower impact. But still, let Del Rio have his evil rich guy gimmick, damn it, he's really good at it!

    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    I'd settle for Del Rio going full rudo and pulverising his arm with a chair or something
You know, that would actually be a solid finish that would help everyone involved. It'd be one of the rare cases where a DQ non-ending would for a PPV match would be beneficial. Cena/Del Rio II with Cena's arm having been destroyed in the first match would be good, and I really think it would only help Cena, not hurt him, to go into a match an actual underdog. It'd rally his fanbase around him and give him a chance to play a different aspect of his character for once, which he'd probably do well. Even Hogan showed fear against Zeus that one time.

    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by the good Dr
      Forget the match (OK, don't forget the match), the promo that set up that match? Emmy reel for Kelly Kelly and Vickie, no doubt. The crackling tension and gritty, real, actorly flair they brought to that scene made Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul's scenes on Breaking Bad look like garbage in comparison.


    What about Kelly Kelly's Sixth Sense that Beth Phoenix was about to run in where she immediately springs from the turnbuckle, meets Beth with a big boot, and hightails it with butterfly aloft as Beth fumes in the ring? Kelly Kelly = Most Followed Diva in the WWE. Because she's the SMARTEST.

    This is classic Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner booking. Kelly is the Road Runner, she won't go down. MEEP MEEP.
Am I insane for really, really wanting the current booking to somehow lead to superheel Kelly Kelly running the division, leading to an Evil Kelly vs. returning Face Kharma feud? Kelly Kelly cutting heel interviews (while still smiling, and looking off camera for cue cards or whatever she was doing last night) would be electric TV.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 152 days
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.43
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    >Am I insane for really, really wanting the current booking to somehow lead to superheel Kelly Kelly running the division, leading to an Evil Kelly vs. returning Face Kharma feud? Kelly Kelly cutting heel interviews (while still smiling, and looking off camera for cue cards or whatever she was doing last night) would be electric TV.


We're both insane because I'd love this too. It would be a re-do of 2004-2005 when evil Trish Stratus ran the division and cut heel promos, only worser. Instead of her version of Kharma, it was Kane who Trish finally ticked off enough to chokeslam her and send her on the DL for months until Ashley brought her back for RAW Homecoming to USA. (In real life, Trish's back was killing her, leading her to discover yoga, changing her and everyone's lives for the better. #StratusphereLiving)


(edited by John Orquiola on 13.9.11 0806)

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CEOIII
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Since: 25.7.02
From: Franklin, PA

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.99
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker

    They gave the F5 to Riley?



No, they gave the TKO to Riley.



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Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

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#31 Posted on
ADR can hold his own, I know we like to hate on Cena here for "burying" him but Cena's banter is not really on an Austin or Rock level and ADR has done a good job of defending himself. At least as good of a job of defending himself as the douchy heel can while still giving the audience satisfaction.

Also, ADR's spanish insults have been hilarious every week, but i do understand the majority of the audience doesnt speak spanish. Still, I'm wondering if the fact that he gets those in makes him look less "buried" to me.


As someone that considers himself something of a writer/storyteller, the way they've botched the Punk storyline is jarring to me... you just really gotta sit back and be amazed by how seamlessly they took gold and made it to shit; they are reverse alchemists. Maybe I wouldn't feel so bad if I did have a WWE ice cream bar.

Triple H had to "show ass" in this; that was the way this story gets over. But nope, he's the good guy. He's the good guy, and Cena's the good guy, and Punk is the good guy. And Laurinitis is bad guy? Too bad nobody cares about Laurinitis.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.50
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    You're probably right, I've just been ragging on Cena enough lately that I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt that maybe someone's telling him to wreck this guy's character instead of him doing it on his own for no discernable reason. At least Michaels waited for the match against Hogan to goof on him. Cena dismantling Del Rio's perfectly fine gimmick every week would be like if Michaels had, out of nowehere, dropped a "Oh, and by the way, everybody knows you don't have mythical superpowers and you only work that way because you're just a hobbled old guy" in the middle of one of their Mania build up promos. Only, you know, with considerably lower impact. But still, let Del Rio have his evil rich guy gimmick, damn it, he's really good at it!

The only way to fix this is to have Del Rio cheat to win a match with the stipulation that Cena has to be Del Rio's ranch hand for the day. Then they can film Del Rio at home taunting Cena about all the fabulous cars and huge mansion that he really really has. Finally Cena can get mad at the end of the day and AA him into a giant pile of horse manure and call him Alberto del Stinko for the next two months.

(edited by spf on 13.9.11 1021)


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Since: 2.1.02
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.71
This...

    Originally posted by It's False
    You know who equals ratings tonight? Tom Brady.


(I <3 you, man!)

I'd like to think that my FF-ing tendencies reflect the general quality of what's going on. I was intrigued when Ricardo interrupted ADR and he got cut off, but since I knew John Cena was just going to show up...FF! (Although, who has worse tattoos, Ricardo or Cole?)

And then I pretty much FFed through the whole show besides the Miz/R-Truth promo and the HHH/Punk. I though HHH and Punk was fine but they had too much time to vamp it up with each other before they got to the actual point where HHH brought it back to the fact that they are having a match Sunday, then it was pretty great.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

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Since: 17.11.02

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.03
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    This is classic Wile E. Coyote and Road Runner booking. Kelly is the Road Runner, she won't go down. MEEP MEEP.


I always wanted Wile E Coyote to catch that damned Road Runner.


CM Punk is finally getting outed as a /b/ Troll. He's been here all summer and it's time for him to go back to his bridge. Everything he's been whining about has gotten torn apart by Triple H last night. Punk was given title shots, pushes, MITB wins, main event shots, his own stable... and they've all gotten him nowhere. (As an aside, I'm actually interested in seeing how 'well' his new shirt is selling compared to all the others.) The audience CM Punk panders to isn't the same audience that goes to the events week after week and spends millions of dollars on merchandise. He panders to the smarks who sit at home and watch the PPVs for free on the internet.

    Originally posted by Big Bad
    In the non-kayfabe world, we get Punk's point that he's been "held back" in the sense that he'd had pushes cut out from under him at various points and that he did indeed have to 'prove himself' whereas big muscular guys were given bigger pushes from day one.


Really now. Can you, for a fact, say this is true. Do you, in any way, work for the WWE and can say that you know this to be absolutely true. No, you're just another one of the smarks CM Punk is pandering to, so keep living the dream!

John Cena, for all his faults (and there are many...), is great for the business. I think my dislike for the character is well documented here, but I can't deny that he busts his ass every day for the business. I don't think there has been another guy like Cena to come along in a very long time.

Usually, the wrestling business is all about getting yourself over at the expense of your peers, and one could argue John Cena has done this, but I don't think it's been intentional. Cena is a corporate champion. He glad hands everyone, he's great for children, he sells a fuck load of merchandise, he's the perfect business model for a wrestler in this day and age. He is the top guy in the business. He is what every other wrestler wants to be.

CM Punk is a throw back to the attitude era. Sure, we all loved that time in wrestling, but the business has changed. The average viewer/mark doesn't want to see the anti-authority figure going against the system. They don't wanna hear some guy talk on the mike about how he isn't getting what he deserves. CM Punk is on television every week. He's a public figure who probably gets paid more money that most of the viewers will ever see in their lifetime, yet here he is complaining about wanting/deserving more. Fuck that noise. You have enough, you're probably a millionaire... you don't need any more. I don't hear John Cena complaining about not getting paid enough. John Cena just likes to fight the bad guys.

Shit... I don't even know where I was going with this anymore. Who was I talking about? Let's see... CM Punk vs Triple H. CM Punk is trolling the internets, so fuck that guy, I want Triple H to win.



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.28
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Everything he's been whining about has gotten torn apart by Triple H last night. Punk was given title shots, pushes, MITB wins, main event shots, his own stable... and they've all gotten him nowhere.
"Nowhere" is a stretch, given that he's headlining this PPV (I'd say Punk/HHH is bigger than any of the title matches) and headlined the last few.

    Originally posted by Cerberus
    (As an aside, I'm actually interested in seeing how 'well' his new shirt is selling compared to all the others.)
At the two house shows I attended last month, they sold out of Punk merchandise well before intermission. Anecdotal, and who knows how much they brought with them to sell anyway, but there's that.

The current Punk shirt is the only WWE shirt I've thought about buying in years. What turned me against the idea - apart from the ridiculous lines at the merch tables at those house shows - was seeing all the people at said house shows in their Nexus shirts. We're one year removed from the Nexus, this big game-changing angle, and really, nothing whatsoever came from it apart from a few minor stars and a few less-than-minor stars. There's a reason that people have lost faith in WWE.

    Originally posted by Cerberbus
    The audience CM Punk panders to isn't the same audience that goes to the events week after week and spends millions of dollars on merchandise. He panders to the smarks who sit at home and watch the PPVs for free on the internet.
I would argue that Punk is more about pandering to the fans who've given up on watching wrestling and now merely follow it on the internet out of habit. He's saying a lot of what they feel (whether it's accurate or not) - the problem is, they've given up hope that the show/brand/product/whatever will go back to being something they enjoy, so they're not about to watch the shows even if they like what Punk says. Youtube clips or online streams or post-show recaps do the trick.

Punk's character is hampered by the fact that he's supposed to be the straight-shooting truth-teller, but he came back right away after telling us he was leaving, and now can't say the things he needs to in order to prove his point. Punk says they have a bodybuilder fetish, HHH lists main-event guys who don't look like bodybuilders, HHH wins. Punk can't say that Bret only got the opportunities he did when he did because they had to push smaller guys in response to the steroid trial, or that WWE Rey is a jacked-up monster compared to WCW Rey, or that Foley tried to get work with WWE on an annual basis and was rejected year after year because Vince didn't like his look.

Of course, if it did say that, it might come too close to that "all this stuff you're watching is fake, but this is real" area that seems to turn people off. Even the real names on Raw might have done that.
Spiraling_Shape
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Since: 2.1.02
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.02
    Originally posted by Cerebus
    (As an aside, I'm actually interested in seeing how 'well' his new shirt is selling compared to all the others.) The audience CM Punk panders to isn't the same audience that goes to the events week after week and spends millions of dollars on merchandise.


I don't remember the last time I saw a shirt as omni-present in the stands on TV as Punk's new one. It sticks out in the crowd constantly (partly because it's white).

It's also the first WWE shirt I've owned in about a decade. The fist/stars/Chi flag is a great design, graphically. I love simple straightforward designs like that.

They were sort of talking in circles last night, sadly, and rehashing the "bodybuilder" topic is kind of old news at this point. Aside from ice cream bars and "fun," Punk needs to be more specific about what changes he wants... for others, for the "voiceless," not just himself. Unfortunately, he can't stick up for the Divas Divison when the changes he wants are being advocated by heels...



"Ice cream bars! Ice cream bars!" - RAW crowd, Boston, 7/11/11
Derrick
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Since: 10.9.05
From: Detroit

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#37 Posted on
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    that Bret got pushed when he did because they couldn't push the giant bodybuilder types then and that Misterio IS a hugely-built bodybuilder dude in his WWE incarnation, just really short; that they consistently ignore people getting over on their own and cut their pushes out on a lark or to "test" them), so Punk's arguments are gutted.


I won't deny that McMahon has a big man fetish, but there have been several champions I can think of who were not named and don't fall into the body builder category. Off the top of my head you have Christian, Edge, Del Rio, The Miz, Jeff Hardy, RVD, JBL (big but by far from bodybuilder), and Swagger.

Yes, the WWE prefers the super hero build but they have never hesitated to give a guy the strap if he deserves it. If you look back at the recent title histories you will see that majority of the winners have NOT been big ripped muscle heads. So this is one point where I am going to have to agree with HHH.

(edited by Derrick on 13.9.11 1225)


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Since: 17.11.02

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.03
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by Cerebus
      Everything he's been whining about has gotten torn apart by Triple H last night. Punk was given title shots, pushes, MITB wins, main event shots, his own stable... and they've all gotten him nowhere.
    "Nowhere" is a stretch, given that he's headlining this PPV (I'd say Punk/HHH is bigger than any of the title matches) and headlined the last few.


He isn't headlining this PPV, Triple H is. The last few he was on, he didn't headline them either... John Cena did. CM Punk is the heel and heels don't headline PPVs.

No matter how many times you tell yourself something or write about it on the internet, it doesn't make it correct. CM Punk is the heel and he's staying the heel. John Cena is the good guy, no matter what you may want to think, that ain't changing. Anyone going against John Cena (With the exception of Hulk Hogan) is gonna be the heel. Nothing will ever change that.

Triple H is also the good guy here. Everything CM Punk has done in this angle has been 'heelish'. He hasn't done a single thing on the side of 'good'. It's all been about him getting what he wants and him getting over. Good guys don't go around telling everyone they are the greatest wrestler in the world, heels do. Who was the last couple of guys to come along and say they were the best wrestlers in the world? Chris Jericho... heel, Brock Lesner... heel.

Hey, what's the one constant mantra you see on every wrestling website and message board? Internet smarks cheering on the heels and hating the good guys. Just because CM Punk is saying what you want to hear for once in your life on the show in front of the live audience doesn't miraculously make him the good guy. It makes him a heel who is pandering to the small group of followers he's always had, but with more people watching.

I'm living in Los Angeles and we just had SummerSlam. You know how many CM Punk t-shirts I've seen around? Two. I spend most of my days around Hollywood Blvd; there's a huge tourist scene here, thousands of people walk by every day and there are about 2 dozen t-shirt shops between Vine and LaBrea and they all sell the WWE shirts. I've seen the CM Punk shirts in those stores, but mostly, people buy the fucking John Cena rainbow shirts, Rey Misterio shirts, Undertaker shirts... yes I have even seen Triple H and DX shirts, but I've only counted two CM Punk shirts. They stand out and are very hard to miss.



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.83
    Originally posted by odessasteps
    At least we didnt see steph's 9/11 promo


What you mean this? I'll give her a free pass here. Nobody knew what to think or say at the time.






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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.25
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      >Am I insane for really, really wanting the current booking to somehow lead to superheel Kelly Kelly running the division, leading to an Evil Kelly vs. returning Face Kharma feud? Kelly Kelly cutting heel interviews (while still smiling, and looking off camera for cue cards or whatever she was doing last night) would be electric TV.


    We're both insane because I'd love this too. It would be a re-do of 2004-2005 when evil Trish Stratus ran the division and cut heel promos, only worser. Instead of her version of Kharma, it was Kane who Trish finally ticked off enough to chokeslam her and send her on the DL for months until Ashley brought her back for RAW Homecoming to USA. (In real life, Trish's back was killing her, leading her to discover yoga, changing her and everyone's lives for the better. #StratusphereLiving)


I think the perpetrator was more similar to Kharma than you think. Didn't the world's largest love machine, Viscera, squish Trish once and for all when she blamed him for losing to Kane?

    Originally posted by Derrick
    I won't deny that McMahon has a big man fetish, but there have been several champions I can think of who were not named and don't fall into the body builder category. Off the top of my head you have Christian, Edge, Del Rio, The Miz, Jeff Hardy, RVD, JBL (big but by far from bodybuilder), and Swagger.

    Yes, the WWE prefers the super hero build but they have never hesitated to give a guy the strap if he deserves it. If you look back at the recent title histories you will see that majority of the winners have NOT been big ripped muscle heads. So this is one point where I am going to have to agree with HHH.


I believe it was the great Mike Adamle who said it most profoundly. In WWE, when you're a small guy, you have to prove you're good enough. When you're a big guy, you have to prove you aren't.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    Punk has to win clean. Anything else would be further diminishing a storyline that is starting to look old.


HHH isn't going to lose the COO job without getting fucked out of it. Punk losing through something unfair would add something tangible to his complaints. I would think they're going to Hell in a Cell next, because Cena/ADR makes much less sense for that (but fits in the last two years where anything can be a HIAC for no reason).


    Cena/ADR is the single worst thing they have done in awhile.


It's John Cena challenging for the title against some jerk. I'm not sure how it's any better or worse than almost everything they've done in a while. They could use the same scripts from 2006 and Find&Replace Edge with "Del Rio" and Lita with "Ricardo."

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    if Michaels had, out of nowehere, dropped a "Oh, and by the way, everybody knows you don't have mythical superpowers and you only work that way because you're just a hobbled old guy" in the middle of one of their Mania build up promos.


Haha. This is MIKE talking to MARK.


hell
yeah
Cerebus
Town
USA
population: what?

    Originally posted by Cerebus
    Everything he's been whining about has gotten torn apart by Triple H last night. Punk was given title shots, pushes, MITB wins, main event shots, his own stable... and they've all gotten him nowhere.


You're talkin' shit, mate. You could take some trolling lessons from Punk.


    He isn't headlining this PPV, Triple H is. The last few he was on, he didn't headline them either... John Cena did. CM Punk is the heel and heels don't headline PPVs.


"two people don't get married, just the wife."


    CM Punk is the heel and he's staying the heel.


Here is a list of CM Punk's opponents besides Cena since Money in the Bank:
Alberto Del Rio [heel]
Miz [heel]
R-Truth [heel]

Here is how he worked those matches: first by pummeling his jerk opponent with might and right, then being cut off by their underhanded tactics, then making a valiant comeback to triumph over their wrongdoing.

Here is a thorough list of all the heel spots he used in his matches against John Cena:



    No matter how many times you tell yourself something or write about it on the internet, it doesn't make it correct.


You don't say.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 13.9.11 1500)
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I got past the initial discomfort of widowed Vicki Guerrero playing tonsil hockey with Edge, but it's still really gross. The Edgeheads gimmick is a little too Doink for my tastes, but hey, whatever gets them over.
- It's False, Smackdown 01-11-08 (2008)
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