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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Report 10-7-02 (Page 2)
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humanmeal
Mettwurst








Since: 17.3.02
From: East Bay Area, California

Since last post: 4153 days
Last activity: 3429 days
#21 Posted on

    Originally posted by Tragic1
    It's easy (almost too easy) to blame Gewirtz or Steph for this. But the fact is, at the end, it came down to Vince saying, "I like it. Go with it."

    dammitdammitsonofabitch.



Hey, please don't ever get the impression that THIS poster (or most of 'em here at Wienerville) EVER mean by criticism of Gerwitz or Steph to take heat OFF Vinnie Mac! They're definitely HIS shows, and the fact that he has to be led kicking and screaming to the good stuff while (apparently casually) approving ALL MANNER OF CRAP is something Vince is regularly (and correctly) pilloried for here.



M. Cole: Oh no, what's Angle going to do with that chair. Tazz: Well, I think he wants to, you know, HIT HIM with it.

"Am I missing something here, or is she, you know, CRAZY?" Ben Stein, of F contestant. "They're all crazy." M Sidekick
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 205 days
Last activity: 6 days
#22 Posted on
All in all, if the Hurricane doesn't make the save and help out his Tag Team PARTNER sometime in the next few weeks, I'm going to be very pissed.

-Jag



With poison running through your veins, and death marching solemnly towards you, heroic acts become more of a necessity as you see your time dwindling.

Vanquishing your enemies, making amends to those you have wronged, and leaving words of love and kindness for those around you become second nature as your own mortality looms

However, true strength lies not in these last desperate acts, but in the actions of one who has to get out of bed the next day and face the consequences of doing that which you believe is right.
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 40 min.
Last activity: 40 min.
#23 Posted on
Granted, the HHH spot did kill the ending a bit (it would have been nice if they could have put it off until next week) but anybody who can let a 30 second promo ruin an awesome 30 minute match is never going to be satisfied and should just stop watching wrestling forever.

As for Hurricane coming in for the save, I would have loved to have seen it too but they're building up Kane as the main eventer for No Mercy. Which is more impressive, a guy who manages to overcome the odds to defeat 6 opponents or the guy who gets rescued by a sidekick who's less than half his size?

As for the murder storyline? Maybe it will suck, maybe it won't. I look at it like this, though. HHH knows Kane can beat him, so HHH has to play mindgames with Kane in order to get an advantage. We have no idea how this story is going to play out, but I'm going to guess that Katie Fick was Kane's girlfriend and her death (suicide, maybe?) was in no way Kane's fault but he feels responsible for it. Considering Kane's past, it's not like he would have had anyone to tell him it wasn't his fault. I could see Raven working into this storyline too. It could possibly fit in with what Raven was saying on Heat about being silent no longer and unveiling his masterpiece. As long as it doesn't end up being HHH or Raven that killed the girl, I see potential in the storyline.

Alternatively, I believe HHH said 10 years ago, so it would have been before Kane debuted and when Undertaker was first starting out. Maybe Kane was trying to emulate his older brother and was wrestling a little girl in his neighborhood and tombstoned her and killed her. They could then go on about how Kane has horrible parenting (which is already well documented) and how it was parental neglect that killed the girl and not because Kane watched wrestling. (This possibility is so distasteful that I can see Vince doing it.)

As for the show itself, the cage match was good and it leads to a Booker T/Chris Jericho feud (presuming Jericho is ok)

The blindfold match was pretty good for what it was. It was short and furthers the alliance of Flair & HHH as the dirtiest players in the game. Props to HHH for having the balls to go into a blindfold match against an opponent who's already paralyzed one wrestler. I'm sure you can still see through the hood, but it can't be anywhere close to good vision.

William Regal vs. Goldust was a decent quick comedy match. There's been some recent talk about all the crap that Mark Henry has been through but Regal has to be second on the list of most humiliations. I need to go over to Lance Storm's comment board now and give him crap about checking out Regal's cleavage as they were headed up the ramp.

The bra and panties match could have been much worse. It would have made a lot more sense if you had to strip your opponent down to her bra & panties and then paddle her to win the match but since when where bra & panties matches supposed to make sense? Hey, we've had a few good straight up wrestling matches in a row from the women, so I'm not going to bitch about one bra & panties match. Plus they continue the Victoria vs. Trish feud which should be some more actual wrestling. At least it wasn't HLA.

Al Snow vs. Test was a typical hardcore match but it's nice to see Al back on TV, at least. Lawler vs Richards wasn't bad. Richards has really looked good lately. I wonder if they did this purely for an excuse not to have Lawler around for the TLC match. (And isn't The Godfather on Smackdown? Ross didn't mention him jumping like he did with Al Snow & Batista.)

The TLC match was simply awesome yet again. Was this really only the 3rd TLC match, though, or was it the 4th? I thought there had been 3 on PPV and then the one that Jericho & Benoit won, but maybe I'm wrong. I cringed on several occasions during the match and thought someone really was going to win the match at more than one point. (Particularly when Spike was making the climb. Can he even reach the belts?) It was an awesome match though and major props to everyone involved.

I was thoroughly entertained by the show just like I expected it to be. There was more storyline furtherance than I expected, considering what the show was. It's not something I'd want to see regularly, but once a year would be neat. All in all, I have no complaints at all.

-InVerse
Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#24 Posted on
I have one thing to say, given the end-show angle.
Somebody needs to tell Gerwitz that Katie Couric's not dead. I saw her earlier this morning on TV. I know they want mainstream pub but this is getting stupid. She'll be on TV tomorrow morning, and everyone will know that this was just a big swerve.

GLAAD will hit the roof.

Oh and by the by, here's how I'd book a "big angle" to get people to want to see Kane V.S. Trips. How about having Trips attack him, unmask him, and have his hideous disfigurement shown to the whole world. Just once. Make-up people handle that. Then, Kane's been humiliated. And then, people will want to see Kane beat Triple H's ass to get his revenge. SOOOOO simple. How'd they miss that?



"There once lived a man named Ray
Who suspected he just might be gay,
he got moist around males,
and he painted his nails,
but his ass-f*cking gave it away."
It's False
Scrapple








Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#25 Posted on
Missed Raw again this week and I'm not sorry I did. The thought of a roulette wheel brought back evil memories of Halloween Havoc '92 and I knew we'd get some kind of stupidity tonight and we did. Booker carrying Big Slug in a cage? Goldust and Regal in drag? Jerry Lawler wrestling for hos? SMELL THE RATINGS!! Oh wait...that's just Godfather's hos.

Although I AM sorry I missed that TLC match. I imagined I missed out, but who didn't know Kane would win? I mean, BY GAWD, HE'S A HOSS!!!

As for the idiotic murder angle (which has "Comic Book Guy Gerwitz" written all over it), I have just one thing to say...

I wish Paul Bearer was still around, just so I could hear him scream "MURDERER!!!!" just like he did back in 1997 before he debuted Kane. I miss that little rolly polly.




"That's right! You suckas better FIND somewhere to run! 'cause it's me - Booker T - not only am I the Scorpion King, but I'm the five-time WCW Champion - and I got a sword, too! Now can U dig THAT - SUCKAAAAAS"
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 40 min.
Last activity: 40 min.
#26 Posted on

    Originally posted by It's False
    Booker carrying Big Slug in a cage?

It was a decent match with a good ending and a solid setup for a Jericho/Booker T feud. The Big Show is 7'2" 500lbs, why do people expect him to wrestle the same style as Benoit/Angle?


Goldust and Regal in drag?

The match lasted about 2 minutes and was quite humorous, so I don't see it hurting the ratings any.

It's always entertaining to see someone start by admitting they didn't watch the show yet they go and pick it apart anyway.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 40 min.
Last activity: 38 min.
#27 Posted on

    Missed Raw again this week and I'm not sorry I did. The thought of a roulette wheel brought back evil memories of Halloween Havoc '92 and I knew we'd get some kind of stupidity tonight and we did. Booker carrying Big Slug in a cage? Goldust and Regal in drag? Jerry Lawler wrestling for hos? SMELL THE RATINGS!! Oh wait...that's just Godfather's hos.

    Although I AM sorry I missed that TLC match. I imagined I missed out, but who didn't know Kane would win? I mean, BY GAWD, HE'S A HOSS!!!

    As for the idiotic murder angle (which has "Comic Book Guy Gerwitz" written all over it), I have just one thing to say...

    I wish Paul Bearer was still around, just so I could hear him scream "MURDERER!!!!" just like he did back in 1997 before he debuted Kane. I miss that little rolly polly.



Look at you. You're bitching about a show YOU DIDN'T EVEN WATCH!

(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 8.10.02 0034)

(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 8.10.02 0035)

mightynine
Longanisa








Since: 18.2.02

Since last post: 1196 days
Last activity: 234 days
#28 Posted on
Well, I DID watch the show off and on, so I'll comment on what I saw.

I got a chuckle out of Regal in drag, then flicked back to MLB and NFL.

Blindfold match was eh. Nothing really to it for me to get real hyped up.

Womens' match: Hey, I like Stacy.

TLC match: Caught the last couple of minutes. Enjoyed the chaos and really thought Jericho/Christian would get the titles and I wouldn't mind seeing those two cut some promos. But the minute Triple H starts throwing out murder accusations, I'd had enough and went right back to MNF.

Now, I now people will say "don't let a promo ruin a show"...but I dunno. In the end, what will get talked about more from this show? Probably the fact that this just smells like a bad angle.

But if they make it so the Hurricane saved this "Katie" whoever...

shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 4007 days
Last activity: 3893 days
#29 Posted on
They should AT LEAST have had a wrestler complain that the wheel was rigged.

Then Bischoff could have said, "Sure it's rigged. NO KIDDING. What's your point?"

PS: It just kills me when people say they'll see how the HHH/Kane "murder" angle plays out before passing judgment.

I mean, come on. Who out there doesn't know this angle will suck big time?? In fact, why bother using the future tense; it already sucks NOW, and it's only gonna get worse.


StampedeFan23
Morcilla








Since: 12.1.02
From: BC, Canada

Since last post: 2059 days
Last activity: 1595 days
#30 Posted on
Damn, I picked a bad show to miss. Anyone have it on tape?

I caught the last 20 minutes of the tag match and I gotta give props to Jericho for the head first off the ladder over the ropes bump. That had to be extremely dangerous!



Are you ready for Mahkan-mania to run wild all over you?
CarlCX
Salami








Since: 1.5.02
From: California.

Since last post: 50 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#31 Posted on
I started out watching RAW from the kitchen.

I watched the main event, post-break, on the couch in front of the TV, reacting with various pained grunts, flailing arm movements and the occasionally seat-hop at every spot.

And when Kane finally stood there holding both tag belts, I felt like joining the crowd in cheering my veritable ass off for the spectacle I'd just seen.

And then came the angle.

And when it was over, I HAD joined the crowd--in sitting there and staring at the broadcast, partially confused and altogether annoyed.

I like the WWE. I've enjoyed some of their bad angles before. I'm still doing my best to keep an open mind.

But it should say something to management that they went from the crowd giving Kane a literal ovation to being literally dead in 1 1/2 minutes.

Open or no, as of yet, I have a bad taste in my mouth.

-carl, going out for mouthwash.
Ana Ng
Blutwurst








Since: 6.8.02
From: Naples, FL, USA

Since last post: 3844 days
Last activity: 3418 days
#32 Posted on
Loved the main event, aside from the fact that it really irks me that Kane can so easily beat tag teams by himself.

As for "the angle", well, I laughed so hard there were literally tears in my eyes. You have to admire something that insanely stupid.



As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time.
Jaguar
Knackwurst








Since: 23.1.02
From: Phoenix, AZ

Since last post: 205 days
Last activity: 6 days
#33 Posted on
Well, you have to remember, that those tag teams went out of their way to beat themselves out of the belts. If they hadn't killed each other, Kane couldn't have done it on his own, even if he does have the strength of ten strong men.

-Jag

Nonono, it's a Palm Tree! It's being blown over by me running so fast!



With poison running through your veins, and death marching solemnly towards you, heroic acts become more of a necessity as you see your time dwindling.

Vanquishing your enemies, making amends to those you have wronged, and leaving words of love and kindness for those around you become second nature as your own mortality looms

However, true strength lies not in these last desperate acts, but in the actions of one who has to get out of bed the next day and face the consequences of doing that which you believe is right.
lagboyz_jfk
Cotechino








Since: 18.4.02
From: Chicago

Since last post: 101 days
Last activity: 100 days
#34 Posted on
The opening cage match didn't work for me without any build-up though Booker tried to make something of it. Also, I happened to watch an old Nitro tape from 98 last night and I was surprised how Big Show hasn't really improved.

You mean D-Von firing Batista wasn't like when Flair fired Hall? He's coming back?
The two stips for the women's match was confusing, but I don't mind seeing Stacy. I immediately think "lesbian ex-lovers" when Victoria says Trish hurt her.

Didn't JR say we'd seen the last Hardcore match on Raw? It's good to see Snow, but I actually still miss the Hardcore belt. (I always thought it could be Raw's answer to SD-exclusive cruiserweights.)

Kane's reaction to HHH/Flair beating up Hurricane made him seem something like Bradshaw. I think it was the "sonofabitch!" line.

Bubba/Spike and Hardy/RVD seem like natural teams, but I would've loved to see Dreamer in the TLC match, not just in one locker room vignette.

It's been 2 weeks since Hurri-Kane won the tag belts, and Hurricane hasn't been in a match, much less defended the belts with Kane. Can I call it a failed experiment yet?

The TLC was a bumpfest, but awesome. I look at this match and the awesome matches SD's top five (Edge, Eddie, Chris, Kurt & Rey) put on the past weeks, and I think that here are guys killing themselves in the ring just to excite the fans because the writers haven't been giving fans reasons to actually care. Am I the only one thinking this?

HHH says Kane murdered Katie Vick(name?) By care, I meant about the wrestling, not this soap-opera bullshit. I'm a HHH fan, but him interrupting after the TLC like that after the relative fluff match he had, opens my mind more to all the anti-HHH rhetoric. This could be even worse than Lucy(?) the bulldog.
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#35 Posted on
I don't know about how someone who lets a 30 second ending ruin a great show not being a wrestling fan. It certainly put the show back on par for me after blowing me away with the TLC match. I mean, they have a great main event and good matches and then half to go and expose the fact that "Yes, we're still completely out of good ideas, please don't watch football".

Stupid shit for the ending is different than stupid shit they could do during the show because it means that next week they'll be starting out with this and going from there. And with only a couple weeks to go before the PPV, there's a lot of stupid they've got to cram in in the next few shows.


Tribal Prophet
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1994 days
Last activity: 1928 days
#36 Posted on
You can just see it now...Kane sitting in his nice Corvette on prom night, wearing his jock jacket with the big "K" for "Kane U" on it, Katie sitting in the seat next to him. Katie says she wants to go all the way, and Kane gets all excited and strangles her during foreplay! Obviously panicked, Kane drives home to hid rotund former mortician dad and they sort it out together...

Could happen to anyone.




Apparently, I Am


The Result Of This Survey Was Really, Really Disturbing To Me

Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3596 days
Last activity: 2016 days
#37 Posted on
The last minute took so much away from the main event. It did as much damage as anything they could think if. Not saying it ruined it but god did they turn something amazing into unimportant nothing in a matter of seconds. And NO I don't have to give it a wait and see attitude, I don't need to tune in next week to find out this will suck. This storyline is about Kane killing someone 10 years ago, there is no twist that can make this entertaining... We got a 2 for 1 on "deep dark past secrets" on Raw tonight with Trish secret, is it as dumb as Kane's. Maybe they could have Trish kidnapping babies from maternity wards. (read legboyz reply) Oh god that actually does sound like a possibility what a great way to ruin 2 amazing wrestlers career. saddle them with a lesbian character. What is with Vince and lesbians angles. Can this be court case #3

-Booker v. Big Show- Just horrible the ax kick was the only spot 8 minute match, no build and having a cage match just did nothing... Jericho's attack afterwards was pretty cool

-HHH v. D-lo- Wow Triple H is in the least important match of the night, and the dumbest gimmick. You walk around in slow motion, Pretty much sounds like 85% of Trips matches this year. What he was blindfolded?

-Regal v. Goldust- Regal hiding his knucks in his top was mildly amusing, actually Regal usually wears less when he normally wrestles.

-Trish v. Stacy- Trish again not happy about being put in TnA match but AGAIN does nothing about it. Well she did notice that Eric was cheating on the wheel. Jury still out on Trish's new music, hip-hop entrances don't usually work for me... I think this might have been Stacy best inring performance, her spinKicks were on the mark, Again Trish bumped sold great, Trish's kicks hit the mark, Nice reverse from the bulldog, I know Trish wants to always put athleticism in matches even TnA unfortunately I don't think it matters if it is a TnA match. Victoria attack was Ultra violent. Gosh Trish bumps like crazy, shirtless into the steps and rail. Wow a woman who actually hits her moonsaults what a concept.

The after-match attack looked awesome but the negative is that they've done this with Trish so many times A) JAzz attack Trish during Trish/Terri wet t-shirt contest B) Molly attack Trish during Trish/Terri paddle on a pole bikini match C) Victoria attacks Trish during Trish/Stacy in a bra & panties match. Could They think of anything different? Pretty much the exact same concept 3 feuds in a row. I just think it doesn't have an effect or taken seriously when the girl is attacked in her underwear after a TnA match... I'm torn about Victoria interview, on one side I'm happy it's not a "my body is sexier then yours part 373" but I always hate "deep dark secrets of the past". And the possibility of something really lame is enormous.

-Snow v. Test- I guess Snow gets the tough enough exception. Heck still dont' know what Gayda and Miles were doing on Raw months ago. Decent match liked when the heard the toys were under the ring they both did a V-line to the outside. Test was stumbling all over the place during the match. The ending was good bowling ball to the skull.

-Lawler v. Richards- And if it couldn't get any worse a cameo from the Godfather (please make it a cameo). WAIT isn't he on SD?. Great this pathetic excuse can bounce between shows whenever he wants. The only good thing about this was JR putting over how Lawler must be really motivated. That was funny... Oh yeah I've seen nipple slips I swear one of the hos leaving the ring I saw a pussy shot.

-TLC- What can i Say just absolutely AMAZING. Jericho bump from the ladder to the floor(and yes I saw the ref give the dreaded X sign). VanDamantors, Terminators and 5stars. Spike crashing like crazy. Jeff Ladder dive on Kane. Bubba helicopter ladder. Christian reverse DDT from the ladder on RVD. Just real great stuff... I would have liked Hurricane come out but oh well, and no I didn't see it as Kane beat 6 guys I'd be more upset if it was a handicapped match 2-1 but everyone was beating up on eachother so Kane wasn't too superman over everyone else. The Triple H thing is just stupid.

Overall an extremely crappy with the exception of Trish bumping crazy for Victoria and the main event almost saved it but Triple H "You killed her!" speech killed the show as a whole.

Line of the night: Hurricane hearing he's in a TLC match: "Holy Mic Foley"


(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 8.10.02 0503)


WWE new slogan "WWE: circling the drain"
Stephanie
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Madison, WI

Since last post: 528 days
Last activity: 20 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.22

    Originally posted by shea
    PS: It just kills me when people say they'll see how the HHH/Kane "murder" angle plays out before passing judgment.

    I mean, come on. Who out there doesn't know this angle will suck big time?? In fact, why bother using the future tense; it already sucks NOW, and it's only gonna get worse.



Agreed. There's no way I can think of this angle ending without some type of cop-out or weak twist. On the other hand, do you think Taker will lend his brother some moral support?

Steph



I'm going twenty-four hours a day...I can't seem to stop
- "Turn Up The Radio", Autograph
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#39 Posted on
It (kane-hhh angle) will probably turn out to be alot of shit anyways..
But maybe it will give us some entertaining tv..
- Hurricane/Greg Helms doing some investigating..
- Kane will get pissed and go midieval on HHH

Trish and Victoria..shrug..does it matter what the secret is?
NetHackSlasher, the reason they have all them heels beat down Trish during/after T&A matches is that then the crowd cares most about her. "Hey you just took away my chance at seeing this hottie in her undies! You evil woman!!"





The only person who is capable of carrying a broom to a five star outing is none other than....
Torri Welles
tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4081 days
Last activity: 4081 days
#40 Posted on
Random Raw Thoughts:

I liked Y2J's interview last night. Sounded like a shoot.

Hurricane had a couple of good lines last night "Oh My, Holy Mick Foley." Maybe that's why HHH attacked him.

The Blindfold match was hilarious.

I wonder if Tommy Dreamer is going to turn heel.

I missed the Bautista vignette. Damn.

So Al Snow's on Raw. Also the Godfather had a cameo, too. Guess that means Sheldon Benjamin's on Smackdown since he's been wrestling the Smackdown house shows.

Stacey looked hot last night.

Thank God Lawler didn't call the TLC match.

Where were the Fun Police (Rosey and Jamal)? last night.

The TLC match was good, though not as good as TLC III with Benoit.

The ending was Russorrfic.

Overall, a fun Raw that had a crappy ending.



(edited by tomvejada on 8.10.02 0516)


"I just got pinned by a friggin twelve-year-old."

Kurt Angle
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Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but someone on the writing staff brought up turning Cena heel in a meeting and Vince chewed him out. So, it's unlikely to happening anytime soon.
- odessasteps, Cena Sighting (2009)
Related threads: RAW Report 9-23-02 - A Little Thing on Raw That Bothered Me - RAW Live From Denver- An Accurate Report - More...
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