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18.6.18 1948
The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Report 10-14-02 (Page 2)
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Shem the Penman
Toulouse








Since: 16.1.02
From: The Off-Center of the Universe (aka Philadelphia)

Since last post: 1598 days
Last activity: 1396 days
#21 Posted on
And Stamboli was with the faces. Wasn't he a heel last time I looked? Oh well, if Big Show can switch back and forth in the space of a single night ...

Six guys get chokeslammed to end the show. Not one of them is Triple H or even Flair. Meanwhile, Kane gets tagged as a murdering, necrophiliac rapist. Yeah, that makes the challenger look strong going into the PPV.

Meanwhile, after having his "feud" with Flair ignored for the last few weeks, RVD finally gets a match with Flair at the last minute. Yeah, that'll build heat for it.

Nice seeing Nowinski back, though. Maybe his jaw healed faster than expected. And a Nowinski/Snow feud (if that's what they're building to) could actually be interesting.

And it was worth a grin to see Patterson and Brisco again.

Oh yes, and the wrestling tonight? Forgettable, as usual. When Jeff Hardy/Rico and the women's tag are the most memorable matches on a show, something's wrong. And the crowd turned on this one even harder than the LA crowd turned on Unforgiven. Let's hope Vince and Company get a clue from that.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 5 hours
#22 Posted on
The Big Show goes from heel to face just about every Monday. Just the other week he was yukin' it up with the boys. Later he punished Jeff Hardy for yukin' it up.



Faust
Salami








Since: 27.7.02

Since last post: 5718 days
Last activity: 5663 days
#23 Posted on
Really bad RAW.

I usually think better of the shows than most people, it seems - but this RAW was so bad . . . I enjoyed it more than if it was "kinda bad."

Let's start with the good: Jericho/Christian as tag champs! WOOHOO! I get my wish from last week! See, wishes CAN come true.

The bad: Everything else. HHH/Kane - what else can be said? Lots of bland, heatless, boring matches this week. HHH/RVD was really, really flat. Al Snow vs. Storm - eh. Nowinski vs. Dreamer - eh. Is there any reason in the world they didn't cut one of these boring affairs and give that time to the tag champ match so that it might be memorable.

As it stands, the only thing memorable from this show was the HHH/Kane angle - and that was HORRIBLE. I mean - I enjoyed it, it was laugh-out-loud funny - but absolute crap that won't draw a dime.

EDIT: On second thought, the IC thing was memorable. But also really bad because the three minute warning business again resulted in a non-wrestler being seriously injured. Patterson has either a broken shoulder or a seperated shoulder. ENOUGH with the three minute stuff on non-wrestlers - it is OLD and dangerous.


(edited by Faust on 15.10.02 0058)


"And in front of the entire world, I want to show my little boy that sometimes - just sometimes, you have to FIGHT to be a man." - Michael S. Hickenbottom, the man who does not take part in angles that conflict with his religion, swearing violent revenge on HHH in full view of his two-year-old son. 11:06 PM, EST. 08/05/02. This angle, which has gone from being a "clean" wrestling match to an all-out unsanctioned street fight for bloody revenge is apparently sponsored by the book of Joshua.
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 5083 days
Last activity: 4552 days
#24 Posted on
Okay, I wasn't paying close attention to the show, but I could've sworn I heard Bret Hart's theme music right before (I think) they did the whole Randy Orton Is A Very Bad Person bit. Was this some kind of video package or what? Or am I mad, mad, MAD?

Feh. Missed it in that other thread there. Interesting choice of wrestlers to sell a CD of theme songs...

(edited by Nate The Snake on 15.10.02 0308)


Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 4924 days
Last activity: 3344 days
#25 Posted on
That was one of the most obnoxious group fans I've ever seen. Talk about disinterested. It's one thing to be dead, but to shout "TWO" for every two count. Could you be less interested in the matches. There's no "ohhhs" or "ahhhs" for a close two but just waiting to shout "TWO". Now that's bad when the people rather do a in arena joke then actually get into the match. Now some of that is to blame on WWE but some of it has to go on the fans as well... Also noticed it took like 2 minutes after the match starts to get all the fans standing up near the front rail to get back to their seats. TV tapings hardly come to Canada with a bad crowd and a weak dollar, WWE has little incentive tape shows up here.

-Jericho/Christian v. HurriKanes- Where's my firework Christian entrance =(. I think they got the match of the night out of the way in a hurry. Nice match. Even match where everyone got good stuff in.

-Storm v. Snow- Actually like both these guys. Total dead crowd (is snow stuck in hardcore hell ie no reaction if he has no toys). Nothing memorable, disappointing match.

-Jeff Hardy v. Rico- Was Rico trying to pick up Jeff before the match? Fans dug Jeff when he came in. Then had fun with TWO. The match again sub-par

-Kane interview- okay write it in stone worst angle of the year. "whating" came back in full effect during the dramatic pauses.(edit in wait a sec they are in Quebec maybe the fans are whating because they truly don't understand english). Somebody got a law book and looked up all crimes and said "Hey lets put it all on Kane". Murderer, rapiest, micky slipper, drunk drivers, necrophiliac. I'm I suppose to feel sorry for Kane's character "What" sorry this is too over the top to even in wrestling to take seriously. But I do feel sorry for Kane the wrestler for having to be stuck with this once he gets kinda over... Well with words seman, rapist, murderer and necrophiliac being said perfect time to bring out the ladies.

-Molly/Victoria v. Trish/Jaqueline-Lol @ Molly giving Lilian an evil look and Lil selling it, Trish has a cool looking non-generic entrance (bout time). Good effort by the girls, Nice looking fireman carry to a backbreaker from Vicki to Trish, also nice spot of Trish being thrown over the top and landing on her feet and pulling Vicki out. Good work from Molly/ Jaqualine as well.

What I didn't like was the booking of the match, first you set it up as last physical encounter between Trish/Vicki before the PPV. So why have a gimmick ref? I actually liked the stacy stopping short of a 3 count. But the faces won 5 seconds later what's the point?... One Question you're in Canada. A face Tag team with a Canadian princess champion Trish and a seldom used not really over unless in Texas Jaqueline. So who gets the hot tag. YUP Jacqueline. Good brawl afterwards between Vicki/Trish

-Bischoff interview- Great more interviews. Patterson came out to old people music (Moolah, mae)He was pretty funny speaking in French for a pop. Liked that they went through a lot of the great IC champs and they also added Chyna (urh). 3 minutes and Patterson got squished and Canadian change spilled all over the ring (hope it was change). BigShow, D-lo, Jeff all got pay back. End of 3 minutes I sure hope so. Also heard Pat got hurt... 3 minute fat guys legit injured a Lesbian (no not Lilian ) and Patterson. GLADD must be MADD

-Nowinski v. Dreamer- No need to build lets go straight to the match Dreamer/Nowinski. Hey it's over well that was a "good" feud now it looks like Nowinski/Snow (?)... Naa that's not fair it looks like this feud could go on with Snow being mixed into it. I found it kind of interesting.

-Orton interview- Okay all lame faces work when you turn them into prickly heels. Is he the Mattitude for Raw. I hope so. Didn't like the shot on Bret (hell I'm not even a fan of his). But the guy does have scrambled brains. Give him a break.

-BigShow v. Booker T- 30 seconds in the ring and out to the back for some real lame and tame hardcore action. Hey they went into the womens lockerroom. Trish is STILL in the shower 40 minutes after her match. Plus an entire lockerroom for the 3 goodgirls. Missed the ending looking at Trish (was she wearing sandals/slippers in the shower?). Interesting connection from the Bass case and this (lol)... Actually it was a decent ending with Jericho punking out Booker in the women shower and turning on the water. I had a WTF moment when seeing Flair direct traffic with Trips in tights driving the forklift.

-HHH v. RVD-HHHate to say this once again HHH is in the main event and the main event is sub-par. Why is BigShow hanging around fat samoans. This match went for 10 minutes I can't even think of a spot that made me care.

-other stuff- Trish's secret could have been much worse (ex boyfriend would be lame as hell), er I guess it's as good as it gets as secret past, not earthshattering or anything. I don't mind the Tirsh holding her back but do we need Trish sleeps her way to the top. Well yeah there was the Vince/Trish thing a couple of years ago. Do we have to bring that back up. Or was it someone else. I thought Vicki's promo was fine, she's a nutjob her starring blankly into space was fine "she's picturing how Trish held her back". Trish confronting her face to face and nailing a slap was a nice touch as well... After such a bad show why put the fans hopes up by teasing a return of Bret. Really dumb.

Line of the night: Lawler talking about smoke meat sandwiches "You know it's made out of moose"

sign of the night: Did I see a "Boring as Nitro" sign, ouch.



(edited by Net Hack Slasher on 15.10.02 0608)

WWE new slogan "WWE: circling the drain"
tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 5408 days
Last activity: 5408 days
#26 Posted on
Random Raw Thoughts:

I was disappointed that Gregory Helms the reporter didn't make any appearences last night.

Victoria's reason was a lot better than I thought.

LOL at HHH forgetting about his match against RVD.

Did anybody notice that when Big Show and Booker T were going in the women's locker room, you could see Y2J in the hall with his chair.

I was waiting for Big Show to fight Rosey and Jamal during the lumberjack match but alas they didn't.

The reason why Johnny Stamboil was with the faces was probably that he wrestled Lance Storm on Heat, and he's been slapping the fans hands lately as well.

Overall, a another crappy Raw. Smackdown should be better with the Guerreros against Angle/Benoit.






"I just got pinned by a friggin twelve-year-old."

Kurt Angle
skorpio17
Morcilla








Since: 11.7.02
From: New Jersey

Since last post: 3744 days
Last activity: 3744 days
#27 Posted on
Seemed like a real crappy Raw. As bad as last week's Raw only without a great TLC main event to bail them out.

How many times must we see the Big Show wrestle Booker T on Raw? I'm sure they set a new record last night. And I'm going back to 8/01 when they wrestled each other. They have no chemistry.

I was looking foward to a Booker T vs. Jericho singles match, instead we get a tag title match that does nothing for either guy.

The crowd "Whatting" the murder, shows how stupid that angle is. If you can't get people to care about a girl getting killed in a car crash, just stop.
VK Wallstreet
Goetta








Since: 18.6.02
From: New York, NY, USA

Since last post: 5673 days
Last activity: 5671 days
#28 Posted on

    Originally posted by The Great Thomas
    OMG TRIPPULAYTCH IN A SUIT!
Wasn't that his Greenwich Blueblood outfit?



¡Azúcar, flores y muchos colores! Estos fueron los ingredientes elegidos para crear a la niñita perfecta. Pero el profesor Utonio agrego accidentalmente otro ingrediente a la formula: ¡la sustancia X! Y así nacieron, ¡las Chicas Superpoderosas! ¡Con sus ultra súper poderes, Bombón, Burbuja y Bellota dedican su vida a combatir el crimen y las fuerzas del mal!
Dr Unlikely
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 62 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#29 Posted on
Here's what I liked about the show:

-Getting to hear the Evil Guitar Chord on Raw one more time - Bret still has the first and best of the "look out fans, this cue at the beginning of my theme means I'm about to do something awesome" themes.

-The camera fading out after HHH got done destroying Kane, then hearing HHH say "Oh, and another thing!" and the camera having to fade back up because HHH needed another minute or so to verbally destroy a different guy, too. I only wish he'd come back by pushing the black frame out of place like the Nicholson Joker in "Batman", that would have been awesome. He should have let them fade to black one more time, then yelled for them to cut back to him so he could say "And Austin sucked, too! OK, now you can go to commercial."

-Y2Joey Tribiani with the "How YOU doin'?" to Trish in the shower. Jericho also got a laugh with the "I want him suspended for attacking me!" rant when Christian's Tights were holding him back and Goldust was holding Booker back. I guess Jericho didn't realize that Booker was just trying to save Jericho from getting in the ring with a MURDERER!

-Flair (HHH couldn't even let him hang on the side for a lift?) and the Gamemobile (he was obviously coming from the Game Crime Lab in the Game Cave) zooming by in the background during the Show/Booker match. It would have been even better if we never saw them again, as if this was just something HHH and Flair do when HHH isn't beating people up or talking about beating people up or solving and/or committing crimes related to the people who he's going to beat up. Maybe they could always show what HHH was doing during other people's matches by having them take the matches to where he is backstage. They did miss out on a good line here - When Flair was guiding HHH as he backed the forklift up and HHH slammed it into the door anyway, he should have said "Heh heh, just like how Kane crashed that car into a telephone booth when he murdered Katie Fick before having sex with her corpse ten years ago after a drunk-driving accident that claimed her young, sweet, innocent life!"

As it stands, it's only the second best use of a forklift in wrestling, behind the amazing forklift camera that caught Rock's expression when Foley and the forklift pinned Rock for the title at HaLfTiMe HeAt.

Everything else on Raw stunk. Well, the Orton thing was kinda funny. But the Big Show/D-Lo thing was a complete mess. I could see D-Lo running out to defend the history of the European title, but he never seemed attached to the IC title (he was the Eurocontinental champ, after all, not the Interpean champ). And did Big Show ever even have the IC title? I guess it could have been a face turn for Show, but there he was as a heel later. Well, maybe it was just Big Show and D-Lo's well established hatred of Rosey and Jamal...nope, there was Big Show hanging around them at the end. Ah, I get it, D-Lo and Patterson turned heel. After all, Patterson attacked Rosey and Jamal first, maybe they were just coming out to honor him. Except D-Lo was locked in the face locker room later. But he did attack Kane with the heels. Maybe he was just really excited to be on Raw for a second week in a row and didn't know what to do with himself.

I'd also like to know what Victoria was supposed to be looking at. It distracted me enough that I still have no idea what her beef with Trish is. If I followed it right, Trish promised to...do something once, and then...didn't? Or something? Anyway, geeze, Victoria, be thankful that Trish kept you out of wrestling. You could have gotten a lift with a drunken maniac who would slam the car into a telephone pole killing you instantly followed by the depraved violation of your corpse.

Oh, it was also great how Kane engages in necrophili-uhhh. Way to go, Raw! Actually, this was a fun Raw if you had people around or a place to say things like "Rosey just rammed right into Kane's foot, not unlike the way Kane rammed the car into a telephone pole on that fateful night ten years ago when he took the life of young Katie Fick!" Heh heh, dead people, what will they do next to entertain us?
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 4009 days
Last activity: 4008 days
#30 Posted on
Um, usually there are good things I'd say about RAW, but... I can't. It's really sad for me to say this. Christian becoming the 9 time tag champ was great, in that he beats Mick Foley's (8) record, and one away from Billy Gunn (10!?). Seriously, I tried to sit through the murder segment, but as I thought, it was too difficult. I do like HHH, but I am not enjoying this AT ALL. Imagine hearing about autopsies, necrophilia and SEMEN while you're eating roast chicken. Plus, they pay tribute to the IC title (my favorite title) in a nice way, only to beat up the first Intercontinental champion, and also getting rid of it at the PPV! A title with actual history beyond the WWE for God's sake! Thanks for nothing, WWE. I might take some time off the WWE, and since I'm in Philly, I can watch some real wrestling on Channel 48 at midnight every night. Fortunately, I got some indies to choose from--CZW, XPW, ROH, GLOOW, and NWA Wildside. Excuse me while I make my choice...

Ringmistress



Ringmistress - A bitch among heels.
ripblazer
Pickled pork








Since: 16.1.02
From: Calgary Alberta Canada

Since last post: 4801 days
Last activity: 4633 days
#31 Posted on
Was it my imagination or did Jericho grab too many belts after the tag match? He seemed to still have two on him after giving a belt to Christian. I think he grabbed the IC by mistake.
Feely
Merguez








Since: 6.10.02
From: Long Island, NY

Since last post: 1591 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#32 Posted on
Dr. Unlikely: The D'Lo/Big Show attack was supposed to be revenge for Rosey and Jamal attacking them over the past few months. Of course, this really wasn't conveyed well, especially with choosing the goddamn Big Show, but I'm trying to think of what other wrestlers they've taken out. I mean there's been the midget, the lesbians and stuff, but...ah, whatever, why am I thinking about this. Though if this is the payoff to the "three minute" angle, well...I don't know what I expected, but this is still disappointing. Par for the course.



-Feely
Dr Unlikely
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 62 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#33 Posted on
Ah, you're right, as the other guy they attacked when they took out D-Lo was Stasiak, and he returned to his home planet and thus was unable to run in. I indeed missed that connection. I still think the segment would have been better if they hadn't brought out Patterson and instead had Rosey and Jamal sneak up on the IC title itself and beat it up instead.

They could have had Bischoff say "You know, Intercontinental Title, you've had a long run in this company...about THREE MINUTES too long!" and then switched to a close shot of the belt to convey the fear that it would be expressing as Rosey and Jamal hit the ring. That or the Honky Tonk Man could have made the save.
Feely
Merguez








Since: 6.10.02
From: Long Island, NY

Since last post: 1591 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#34 Posted on
Well, JR briefly mentioned when they attacked the Big Show a few weeks ago, but they should've reiterated it or SOMETHING because I completely forgot about it otherwise.



-Feely
ges7184
Lap cheong








Since: 7.1.02
From: Birmingham, AL

Since last post: 69 days
Last activity: 57 days
#35 Posted on
You know, I think I would have brought everyone back to get revenge, lesbians, Mae Young and Fabulous Moolah, Lillian, the midget, everyone for a massive beatdown (of course, with the wrestlers softening them up, then everyone else running in to get their licks). That's how I would have ended it.

The show was OK at best. The murder thing was lame, but that's what I expected, and at least it doesn't seem like this is going to be long and drawn out. The Victoria thing didn't make sense to me. I can't figure out why Trish sleeping to the WWE exactly prevents Victoria from earning her way in, since she indicated that the WWE was interested in BOTH of them, so it wasn't a choice between the two. Well, I guess the point is they hate each other, and we'll leave it at that.

The matches were all pretty much there. Nothing offensive, but nothing spectacular either. I thought that the continuity error at the end was pathetic, and I'm not even that big of a continuity nut.
vsp
Andouille








Since: 3.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 4368 days
Last activity: 623 days
#36 Posted on
I'd provide my usual take, but, well... to put it bluntly, this show wasn't enough to hold my interest. I flipped liberally between it, MNF and the Giants/Cardinals game, subsequently missing substantial portions of RAW.

* RAW IS MURDER continues to fail to impress me, even WITHOUT figuring in the crimes against continuity. All I want to know is which writer thought up this storyline and seriously said "Hey, THIS'll put asses in seats!"

* Al Snow vs. The Remaining Un-Americans drive through come again.

* "Bite me." Nearly my line of the night, just from the way Spike delivered it.

* The women's division is on life support.

* Killing the IC title is a very bad idea. Killing it off the WAY they're killing it off (treating it as an afterthought at best, a joke at worst, and generally as just another opportunity for Bischoff's character to act swarmy) is a VERY VERY bad idea.

* That said, "Speak English" was classic heel heat in Quebec.

* Thanks for coming out tonight, Tommy!

* And even MORE Terri on my TV. Do they WANT me to turn on my PlayStation instead?

* I'm liking the Orton repackaging.

* The forklift drive-by was funny as hell. About one minute later, seeing that the match was going nowhere, I flicked over to watch the Giants bat.

* Likewise for the main event.

I'm not going to be all melodramatic and say "If it doesn't improve, I'll never watch [the WWE/Wrestling/a HHH match/television in general] again." I'm not there yet. I'm not offended or shocked by ("Huh-huh. He said SEMEN. Huh-huh." "YEAH! YEAH! SEMEN! YEAH!") the content, or ready to post 4,581-word rants attacking "HHH Presents The HHH Show Starring HHH With HHH In It."

Right now, what I am is BORED by RAW. Bored by the booking, bored by many of its participants, bored by comparison to what they're doing on Smackdown.

Grand Theft Auto: Vice City arrives in two weeks. They have two weeks to convince me not to start spending Monday nights with a PS2 controller in my hands.




"No society has managed to invest more time and energy in the perpetuation of the fiction that it is _moral, sane and wholesome_ than our current crop of _Modern Americans_."
-- Frank Zappa
InVerse
Boudin blanc








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 47 min.
#37 Posted on

    Originally posted by ges7184
    The Victoria thing didn't make sense to me. I can't figure out why Trish sleeping to the WWE exactly prevents Victoria from earning her way in, since she indicated that the WWE was interested in BOTH of them, so it wasn't a choice between the two.


Because Trish was jealous of Victoria and afraid of being upstaged by her, so she did everything she could to prevent Victoria from coming in and ruining Trish's chances at stardom. Christ, even if the WWE generally fails to do so, it's not that hard to come up with perfectly sensible explanations to storylines.
shea
Bockwurst








Since: 1.2.02
From: Brooklyn NY

Since last post: 5334 days
Last activity: 5220 days
#38 Posted on
re: the trish/victoria angle:

I heard something completely different.

Didn't Victoria say something like "We always told each other we'd break into the WWE together."

TOGETHER. As in, they were a couple back then. As in, lovers.

It's stupid, I know. But given the recent tone of RAW, that's what I thought Victoria was alluding to.
VK Wallstreet
Goetta








Since: 18.6.02
From: New York, NY, USA

Since last post: 5673 days
Last activity: 5671 days
#39 Posted on

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    -Getting to hear the Evil Guitar Chord on Raw one more time - Bret still has the first and best of the "look out fans, this cue at the beginning of my theme means I'm about to do something awesome" themes.
I don't know about the best, but certainly not the first. Without even thinking, DiBiase's evil laughter comes to mind. Heel Jake Roberts had "trust me, trust me, trust me." I'm sure there are plenty of others. More guys should have that. And more guys should know when to come out in their song. I'm tired of guys just walking out of the curtain -- most songs have a right place to enter. Not even Triple H does this right, usually, though he always hits the appropriate blowhole spot in the middle of the song (first time I've ever seen a cue like that in mid-theme).



¡Azúcar, flores y muchos colores! Estos fueron los ingredientes elegidos para crear a la niñita perfecta. Pero el profesor Utonio agrego accidentalmente otro ingrediente a la formula: ¡la sustancia X! Y así nacieron, ¡las Chicas Superpoderosas! ¡Con sus ultra súper poderes, Bombón, Burbuja y Bellota dedican su vida a combatir el crimen y las fuerzas del mal!
Dr Unlikely
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 62 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#40 Posted on
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that it was first theme to start like that, but that it was the first one to start like that for the particular purpose of the new direction they've had since the dawn of the Attitude era. I think the evil guitar chord at the beginning of Bret's theme, with the Kee-Rash of breaking glass when Austin became Stone Cold, heralded the arrival of Crash TV, where the key players would come out on a show multiple times to start trouble. The cues at the beginnings of their songs were signals to the crowd saying "Uh oh, here they come again!" because Austin or Bret were coming out to do something to kill each other one more time that night. And so we get residual effects even today when people hear the shredding from Bret's theme for a commercial and the natural reaction is "Whoa, Bret, where?!"

There was a recent column on the main page and a follow-up thread about these kinds of things in themes and your interesting point about entering at the right time during them in the Guest Feedback thread where I was saying that not all themes should have that cue at the beginning, like Flair's theme, because he's not that kind of Crash TV/Attitude character.

In a vaguely topic-related way, I still want one more month of the MURDER and ADULTERY angles so Survivor Series can have seperate promos for Raw and SmackDown, the Raw one using "Murder Was the Case" to tell the sad tale of Kane and the SmackDown one using "Humpin' Around" for UT's marital woes, and also because Bobby Brown=buyrate.
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Not bad, but it's no "Tell Me a Lie." BTW...for some reason, I can't get out of my head the thought that when Brett Favre finally hangs it up, I'll end up editing a farewell video with that song...
- The Thrill, Song during Benoit tribute (2004)
Related threads: GET WELL SOON RANDY - Murderer?! Not Cool! - Kane/Triple H's new angle - More...
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