First off, what happened to that Harvard Chris/Regal vs. Dudleys match they were supposed to have? It actually looked like it would be good, unlike most of the stuff last night.
There was barley any wrestling. I don't coun't the mud match as wrestling belive you me. The six man was good, the main wasn't their best, but it was so so (the no finish realy bugs me, it's like they had no plan and decided "Hey they won't care lets just turn the end into a nice brawl. Yeah that will build up the ppv real good!"). The bright point of the show was the hardcore match (I'm really glad they got rid of the 24/7 rule) which was a lot of fun to watch. The rest, ugh.
I mean, you have a 2 hour and 15 minute show, and you can only fit 4 MATCHES!?!? I mean, what reason could anybody have to scratch the tag match when you have that much space left. But no, instead we get treated to HHH coming out and saying the same thing he's been saying the past 2 weeks, with the exception of some contract involved. Did we really need that promo? You could have put the match there, and have HHH talk in some backstage interview to shorten it up if you reall wanted him to talk. I mean, that promo put me to sleep, it was so bad. And, they completley wasted the crowd, who were hot all night, with a bunch of talking.
This is wrestling show, where you are supposed to wrestle. It's a proven fact. But no, Vince belives in sportz entertainment. Screw wrestling. What a horrible show.
As much as Vince's show might try and break me down, it won't. Today I shall recive Memphis wrestling from the 80s. Good wrestling. Not sportz entertainment like last night. Just guys goin out and wrestling each other for one reason or another. No backstage skits, no 20 minute in ring promo, just wrestling.
Last night's show probably looked really good on paper, but on TV it really sucked. When Fozzy started, I thought the band was great. But CJ is a horrible singer. Totally horrible. Roaddog was better than him.
Bischoff's commentary on the women's division was "in character" I am sure. The ratings for the women's matches have been good and the matches are getting heat. I think the match was a way to get some T&A involved.
I could go on and just repeat what eveyone else was saying, but the show just was flat, maybe jetlag from the Australian trip, I don't know. But it was not the "Must-See" Raw that we thought we would see.
January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
From one of the many who DOES care about the womens division as wrestling, I am proud to say that I MISSED last night's show due to a birthday party. Otherwise I very well may no longer be posting here or watching the shows. Hopefully the WWE will atone next week and get over this "all the people care about is TnA" bull. Do any WWE people read this forum?? Do they only read the ones that the puberty-ridden 14 year olds post on?
"Do you not think there are things in this universe which you do not understand and yet which are true?" -Abraham VanHelsing
Um, guys, don't you think you MAY be overreacting just a smidge? It sounds like a pretty bad show, but going totally off the deep end-especially when it's to be expected as a hype show for the PPV-seems a little extreme. I'm sure there has been a LOT worse shows this year, and just because the fed's had stellar TV for the past month doesn't mean they're not gonna have a below-average show every once in a while. Don't start writing off the whole thing just due to one bad show. It's already got signs of good things coming out of it-most notably the scrapping of the ancient 24/7 rule and (hopefully) makign the title much more, y'know, hardcore.
Molly, Goddess Amongst Mediocrity, The Only TRUE Diva! I Worship At Your Big-Assed Altar!
(applauds above oldschoolhero for his statements and nods his head in agreement)
Oh, and I hate to say it, but I was at King of the Ring, when the Women's match that stole the show went on, and guess what? Half the arena got up to get snacks and go to the bathroom. Most people simply don't care about the women's division. Plus, I wouldn't call any match that EVERY single times warrants a "We want puppies" chants their biggest draw. One bad show does not bad product make. And anyone who doesn't order the pay per view because of one bad show...nevermind.
The REAL question is, "Who Bettah Than Cory Dillon"!?
Originally posted by Mr Heel IIIs it REALLY a wrestling match when the only way you can tell which woman is which is by the size of their breasts?.
(edited by Mr Heel II on 19.8.02 2305)
If that's the only way you could/can tell those two women apart, I've gotta assume a) you were there live, and just couldn't see, b) you don't spend much time looking at women.
Stacey's posterior (of which they showed beaucoups shots, in some of the best production work of the night) is nearly unmistakable on its own, let alone with the differences in height and breastage between the two.
I mean, I know you had to say SOMETHING about the match, but c'mon.
Unemployment isn't just for philosophy majors anymore. Useful people are also starting to suffer. -Kent Brockman
I think Raw was good. I dont think Fozzy sucks, most bands arn't as good live. My favorite by match of the night had to be the 6 man tag with Test, Lance Storm, Christian, Goldust , Booker T, and The Undertaker. The finish to the main event sucked I would have rather had HBK interfere after the match instead of the no-contest. Overall the worst in the Bishoff controlling Raw seris.
I agree with OldSchool and Deion... yeah, RAW wasn't great, but it didn't quell my enthusiasm for SummerSlam. Dudes, I might very well order this PPV, which would be only the second time I've ever ordered a PPV (this year's WrestleMania being the first, with Rock-Hogan pretty much making my decision for me).
Wienerville's resident WCW mark speaks out about RAW:
HEY! You guys call RAW “WWE Nitro” like that's a bad thing? Whassupwidat? Nitro was actually quite good in 1997, when it was kicking the living shit out of RAW.
The Undertaker is a PROUD AMERICAN! Laa-dee-da. Ho hum, ho hum. *zzzzz* Hey, wasn't this guy, only two months ago, beating up people just because? I did like 'Taker's line about “if I want to be a tattoed, fire-breathing dragon, well that's all right with you.” (Cool, maybe Ricky Steamboat is getting the hell out of NWA-TNA and returning to WWE!) But you could smell the stinktatude on the rest of 'Taker's promo overall. Test's line was horrendous-- who are the idiots in the back writing this crap? Booker T's promo almost saved the segment for me, but even the 5-time WCW Champion couldn't overcome the large deficit he started out with.
By the way, no matter how many ads I see for that movie, nothing is going to drag me to theaters to see Serving Sara. Hell, I work at Blockbuster and get five free movie rentals a week for free, but I can't imagine watching the movie even when it comes out on DVD. I wouldn't want to waste a free rental on it.
Hardcore Battle Royal
You know how Terri ran away immediately? I had a horrifying thought of her running back into the ring at about the 5:45 mark and scoring the winning pinfall. See, you guys think the show was bad, but it could have been a lot worse, and the worst-case scenario I thought of immediately never happened, thank God. Besides, the 24/7 rule is history! GONE! FINITO~! WHOO-HOO!
Bradshaw's early pin on Dreamer marked his 17th reign as Hardcore Champion. When Crash pinned Bradshaw, he became a 23-time Hardcore Champion, and then when Dreamer regained the title, he became a 13-time Hardcore Champion. Yeah, it was out of control for a long time-- BUT IT'S OVER NOW! WHOO!
(Credit Solie's Vintage Wrestling [http://www.solie.org] for information on all Hardcore Title changes during house shows.)
Stacey and Trish
I've always thought it funny whenever Trish makes a suggestive statement about someone, only to have her early-'01 fling with Vince thrown right back into her face. Good job, Stacey. Although maybe she should have mentioned that not only did Trish bark like a dog, but she also (in-character) screwed Vince.
I like T&A as much as the next guy, but the mud wrestling thing seemed to be a little too much. At least it was mercifully over soon. I did think it was funny to see Charles Robinson get drenched in the mud, which was somewhat unpredictable. The obligatory Humiliate the Fink thing was, of course, seen from a million miles away.
La Roca I
I think this is the first time The Rock has introduced himself as Dwayne Johnson on WWE television, although I remember both Mick Foley and Vince McMahon referring to The Rock by that name at some point. Anyway... this segment was unfunny, particularly the dancing People's Strudel. And I think The Rock didn't quite react in the proper manner to the glossies that Heyman sent him. I didn't expect him to be quivering in his boots, but smirking at pictures of his hero being beaten to a bloody pulp isn't a good reaction, in my book.
Triple H cuts a promo-- I grab some more of my shrimp fettucine
You guys haven't lived until you've tried my shrimp fettucine alfredo. Oh, Triple H is in the ring? Perfect opportunity to get seconds. CRZ's RAW recap was dead on, as usual, noting the repetition of certain words and phrases in people's promos. “You see,” “So Brock,” “But Shawn,” “Now Shawn,” ad nauseam. It's as if Triple H honestly doesn't know how he wants to start his sentences. Anyway, the promo dragged on, and even Y2J couldn't entirely save it-- sorry, Chris, but the King of the World catchphrase isn't nearly as good as the Living Legend one. (Makes you wonder if WWE really is being sued by that assclown Larry Zbysko).
Six-Man Tag Match
Always good to see the Shattered Dreams/Golden Globes from Goldust. It reminds me of the time when (as a heel) Goldust set his opponent up for the move and the crowd popped for it... so Goldust didn't do it. Ha! Hopefully the “guy who gets punked out last before the PPV wins at the PPV” rule is still in place, so Booker T and Goldust will finally become the Tag Team Champions. As far as 'Taker and Test go, I'm gonna agree with someone else on this thread by saying they could entertain me for maybe... three minutes.
During the Flair-Jericho segment, I actually talked about the KLANGY POLES~! out loud. CRZ's got me trained, damn him. LOL...
RVD vs. Big Show
This was an interesting departure for Three Minutes, as they actually attacked someone bigger than them (and a heel, for that matter). Kicked his ass pretty decisively, too. This just goes to show you that no WWE Superstar ever watches RAW-- the Jamal and Rosie beatdowns have only been going on for, what, five weeks, now? J&R reeked of awesomeness again last night, but I was disappointed with the way Bischoff called them out. “Three minutes! Three minutes!” Damn it, I'd have preferred for him to make another sinister comment, such as “You pissed me off about three minutes ago” or “Show, you're just not entertaining me anymore.” Oh, well.
I actually enjoyed Fozzy, and might just buy their CD. I heard the CD's supposed to be better, anyway. If you guys want to hear a band that sounds even better live than in the studio, check out Styx's Extended Versions CD.
I agree with everyone else here, though, in saying that Fozzy would have been more well-received if Y2J were still a face. As a heel, of course they're gonna say “Fozzy sucks”, even though I didn't think they were all that bad. Maybe Chris should have warmed up before singing, though.
The Biggest Main Event Ever, OhMyGodWe'reOutOfTimeDon'tMissThunder!
OK, hyping a non-title match between two guys we've already seen wrestle about 999,999 times as The Biggest Main Event Ever in The History of Our Great Sport? JR and Lawler evidently graduated from the Tony Schiavone College of Hyperbole. The match was underwhelming to me (disappointing, because Rocky tends to bring out the best in Triple H), and I found it stupid how HBK was able to take out Lesnar with a shitty Cryonic Kick. But at least HBK finally got physically involved in some way, shape or form with Triple H prior to their match at SummerSlam. Hell, Michaels wasn't even featured at all last week, was he?
Not a great show, but not the shit-fest that some people say it was, either-- and I'm still excited about SummerSlam.
“I can't believe it! I just got pinned by a freaking 12-year-old!”-- Kurt Angle talking about Rey Mysterio on WWE SmackDown!, 8/9/02
Two-Time, Two-Time Randomly Selected Weiner of the Day, 5/27/02 and 7/3/02
Yeah, OSH, Deion and Eke... the show wasn't THAT bad. I think some of this reaction is probably because WWE leaked that they had high expectations for this show. They're probably making a mental note to NOT DO THAT next time.
Originally posted by Spiraling_Shape[quotemidI`m surprised no one (not even our Recapping Host) pointed out that the Rock called himself "Dwayne Johnson" to that girl backstage. Has he ever done that before, in character? I remember Vince calling him "Dwayne" once years ago on a RAW, but that was it.
I think that was a subtle sign that the Rock is moving away from using his wrestling name. If hes truly serious about being a movie star then he cant use the name "the Rock." Especially since that name is copyrighted by WWE.
It really doesn't matter because the WWE has the Rock/Dwayne tied up to a movie deal. He is better off staying with the name the Rock than switching to Dwayne. Buy anyway, Vince has the final say on the shows. If he wants to call whatever he wants to.
These commercials are superfine because they pay for the production costs of putting CHRIS MOTHERFUCKING BENOIT on my GODDAMN TV SCREEN! I will GO GREYHOUND! I am thinking OUTSIDE THE BUN! – Dean Rasmussen 8/1/2002 Smackdown Workrate Report
Originally posted by Mack Salmon I hope that Fozzy didn't expect to not get their performance pissed on by the crowd, considering that Mongoose McQueen did a pretty good job of pissing them off and all. Wakka Wakka Wakka! Not a super fantastic amazingly awesome show, but I enjoyed it.
Of course they didn't expect a good reaction, why would Ric Flair ruin a good performance?
Granted, they had to hype the PPV, but there's ways to do that other than having wrestlers come out and do nothing but talk .... and talk .... and talk some more.
Of course, that would involve the writers actually doing some WRITING .... you know, PLOT and CHARACTER .... all that stuff? YOU HAVE HEARD OF IT, VINCE???
PS -- I'm constantly amazed that, despite having a bunch of talented and good-looking female wrestlers on the roster, the company continues to torpedo the womens' division. They're totally wasting what should be one their strongest assets.
I was also very disappointed by they burying of the Women's Div. unless this ends up being an angle to inject more interest....but it seems we're back to the same old, same old.
Back when it was just the "divas" with no skills whatsoever, a women's match would be automatic FUHFWD for me. Now it's one of the ones that I stop for, provided that the more talented workers are in. Especially Molly!
The "eye-candy" has a place in the show, but it's NOT burying the women who've actually put in long hard hours learning their trade.
As for the rest of the show? A mixed bag for me, definitely a step down from last weeks efforts.
Two things stand out. From a "mark" point of view it was actually cool to see the GIANT back in menacing form instead of being a joke. From a "smark" point, it's an unfortunate choice to set back RVD for this...but with the "cross show rivlary" and the IC title on the line it provided story reasoning for Eric to have GIANT punked out.
The run ins at the end, at first glance I thought we're well done and kind of exciting. (Other than the scary tope!...God he could have broken his neck!) After coming here however...it did kind of take some of the heat off of Brock. (But isn't that what a lot of people had been wanting?)
Overall...blah...it wasn't terrible, but it didn't match up to the previous weeks shows. And I found myself using the FF key a lot more this week.
I'm sorry, but if you don't get SummerSlam, then don't bother getting any other PPV. From top to bottom this is a better card than Wrestlemania. You have HBK's last match, Brock/Rock, Benoit/RVD, Angel/Rey and Jericho/Flair. Man and thats just half the card.
I heard Smackdown was fairly good, so lets not lose faith yet, because of a poorly written Raw.
A Fan- I can't believe I'm going to see Fozzy at the World, I hope some WWE stars are there so I don't feel like I waisted $23.00.
First off I'll address some individuals- Rockdotcom don't feel bad, I show like that deserved that type of reaction from the crowd. If it was a good show We should get on you but a show like that I don't think any crowd would appreciate it... Fantomas I still can't really tell if you are being sarcastic is saying "you always agree with me" (lol)
Deion, is that the same KOTR with the heatless cruiserwight match (hurricane/noble) or the quiet Test/Lesner match or maybe the surprisingly unover Eddie/Flair match or was that also the same KOTR with HHH/Taker wrestling with a dead crowd until The Rock came out... On a weekly bases I hear the women get more of a reaction in "real matches" then most of your mid-carders. As for the "puppies" chant it doesn't help when your colour guy names the number 1 face "puppies" instead of her real name. Plus I've noticed it dies down quick and on the high majority of time the fans get into the match.
I'm I overreacting not ordering? maybe. I'm still not ordering. I'm still not going to watch the next couple of shows. I usually laugh at Torch readers giving out Zeros and 1's and I always said if you are going to give such poor numbers you really should take a week or 2 off. Well I'm taking my advice because THIS show was THAT bad. This show was insulting. And as a viewer the only thing I can do is not give them my money for the PPV and I need a couple of weeks off.
I've mentioned the women and how angry I am that they took a character / division that I cared about and made her into a common strippers... And of course the 4999 millionth HHH v. Rock main event match that they hyped before last weeks main event with NO FINISH. COME ON, H can't get pinned quick by Rock. Would that kill him! Wouldn't it add that he'd be super pissed and Michaels for there match? After 2 hours of crap I can't have a finish on this main event.
Those were the 2 main things plus of course you had the endless interviews, I'm not one of those people that say "interviews bad" but Do one of two things. Make me laugh or make me care. Test/Taker & H/Jericho did neither. Lazy unamerican storyline on the Test/Taker with lines like "america sucks and so do you" Oh thank goodness Taker punched him because test might say "takers mom wears army boots and H looked he's doing Al pacino in Insomnia and looking dead tired and falling on the ropes (didn't tough enough say you shouldn't do that, and Jericho (who I was a fan of) was all over the page and talked about nothing. Oh we did have the line "You talk trash now your in it" by Flair. WHo is writing this crap? ... And can't the Fozzy concert that should have been on confidential or heat not on a Raw before a PPV.
This Raw represented everything that I hate about wrestling, long boring pointless interviews, degrading women, No finishes in over hyped matches... I've seen bad shows and allowed bad nights (like a couple of weeks ago with the horrible 1st hour and hhh/shawn satellete talk for the main event) But this one was just offensive, absurd and insulting. It was so bad that turned me off from a decent past few months. It really felt like 4 bad shows in 2 hours. It WAS THAT BAD.
I understand some shows seem to be hype heavy especially before the PPV. But did this show even do that?
-RVD #1 contender from RAW - getting destroyed by SHow a week before his Benoit match and needing to be saved. I understand why Eric saved him, but still very strange in the great RVD needing to be saved
-Taker v. Test- I'm sorry any time a line like "I thought America sucked but now standing by you I think you suck too" can't be a good thing.
-Storm/Christian v. Bookdust- not much damage but not much done either. I see another title belt to the face pin. WHat are the champs finisher, anyone know? heatless pin.
-Flair v. Jericho- I match I was looking forward to (3 years ago) Flair last week pulled Jerichos pants down and this week puts a garbage can on his head and says "You talk trash now your in it" This is the build to this match.
-HHH v. HBK- Wow Trips talking about legal papers, those are always soo interesting and he talked about them in the ring AND backstage with Bishoff... HBK comes in punks out Lesner, wouldn't it make sense if he punked out HHH and make him lose the match therefore making the roid monster in a bigger rage? I think so.
I don't think this show added anything (and took away so much). Heck a few posters said the same thing even VSP said it best "I like the card so why I'm I not excited"... Personally I was there, I was going to buy it. But WWE pulled off such a garbage show that turned me so off that I can not pay for this PPV. WHen the tape comes out I might be renting it. If I'm actually still watching wrestling
I don't get it, everyone loves rats, but they don't want to drink the rats milk?
Originally posted by Net Hack Slasher-Bischoff talking to Trish/Stacy- He pretty much shot the women division right between the eyes. So you telling me that the months of women division that was more damn entertaining and get more response from the live audience then half the shit the men do means nothing. You telling me the time I put into these characters mean nothing And you want them just to be stripper in mud.. FUCK YOU.
-Trish v. STacy- Why the hell did Trish even bother taking that scary stage dive? WHY? it's not going to help her any. Everyone's going to forget. Lita takes a safer bump they make a big deal. Trish takes a dangerous bump into a small pool and it's just a start of a smut match. Nothing good out of this match, anyone who finds it sexy is fucked. It's degrading. I could live with B&P matches this is just dehumanizing women and treating them like common stripper.
If you want to do something like this do it untalented slugs like Terri or dust off JAckie Gayda and let her do that. Trish worked to damn hard to be treated like shit..
Dude calm down. You have way too much stress in your life over this. The solution to this was that Bischoff was in character. His role is to be a jerk on TV, that's why he said that. More than likely this will be used to promote the women's division to something useful.
Since you won't watch RAW for a while we'll call you when that happens...
I thought the show was mediocre. It wasn't anything to get excited about, but I wouldn't call it BAD either. As far as HBK is concerned, listen people, we know he's not going to be as good as he used to be. This is about nostalgia and seeing Shawn get one last match with the crowd fully supporting him. In case you didn't notice, when HBK entered the ring, the crowd came to it's feet for the one and only time that night. The match is going to be good because of nostalgia and crowd heat, plus it is the culmination of a feud that started in 1998, when HHH took over DX. Just enjoy it for what it is - PLEASE.
I thoght CJ sang rather unpredictably, which is why they probably turned the mic down a lot. His "kill a stranger" refrain was often rather flat in spots. I think the segment was designed to make Jericho look like an ass, which was the point. I liked the segment for what it was, esp. when Flair came in and destroyed the equipment.
(edited by Faust on 21.8.02 1826) "And in front of the entire world, I want to show my little boy that sometimes - just sometimes, you have to FIGHT to be a man." - Michael S. Hickenbottom, the man who does not take part in angles that conflict with his religion, swearing violent revenge on HHH in full view of his two-year-old son. 11:06 PM, EST. 08/05/02. This angle, which has gone from being a "clean" sporting contest to an all-out streetfight for bloody revenge is apparently sponsored by the book of Joshua.
Interesting. Hopefully he'll stay off TV for a while, because he tends to overshadow the talent. I should have intuited it, based on the onscreen mention of the "Powers That Be" last night. So how long before we see the Wolfpack on TNA-TV?