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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW March 21 2005 (Page 2)
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Hogan's My Dad
Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 13 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.40
It got a pop because people were turning on Rocky, not because anyone bought into Lesnar. He wasn't exactly getting standing ovations all around the country.

I still stand by my seemingly insane Orton statement. His weaknesses, of which there are many, can be better hidden by quality heel workers who know how not to emphasize them. As a heel, it's just out there for all to see, whether it be mic work or ten minutes of grunting chinlock that people seem to like better than Cena's stiff punches.
When Orton has to do the carrying, you better hope the faces are incredible.



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Downtown Bookie
Morcilla








Since: 7.4.02
From: The Inner City, Now Living In The Country

Since last post: 152 days
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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.62
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    I know I catch flack every time I criticize Orton, but he may be even worse as a heel than he is as a face. At least as a face he talks less, now I have to listen to him repeat himself like he's in Rain Man or something.
You mean like he's had too many concussions or something?



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PostModernBoy
Cotechino








Since: 5.2.03

Since last post: 3159 days
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.28
Y'all are making the wrong comparison. Batista is not an attempt at Goldberg Part 2. Batista is a big man with a powerbomb finisher who can be carried and who has a certain sense of humor that makes it seem as if he's smarter than everyone else around him. Batista is Diesel 2.0. Which isn't to say that a Batista push is a bad thing, just that the Diesel push didn't quite work out the way some people though it would and the same pitfalls are there for Big Dave. Most importantly, Batista has to retain enough of an animal persona to remain over as a face; he can't start pandering to the crowd too much.

As for the rest of the show:
-Kane losing isn't so bad. It helps get across that everyone else in that match has a chance because Kane is beatable.
-Greg Louganis couldn't have done a somersault dive smoother than Shelton Benjamin.
-When Stacy Keibler walked out there with Randy Orton, she was a damsel more obviously doomed than Gwyneth Paltrow in Seven.
-Christy Hemme is at least trying. How many new women on the roster eventually working their way up to the Trish Stratus worker level would make the Diva Search in the long run a positive thing?
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 49 min.
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.94

    Y'all are making the wrong comparison. Batista is not an attempt at Goldberg Part 2. Batista is a big man with a powerbomb finisher who can be carried and who has a certain sense of humor that makes it seem as if he's smarter than everyone else around him. Batista is Diesel 2.0. Which isn't to say that a Batista push is a bad thing, just that the Diesel push didn't quite work out the way some people though it would and the same pitfalls are there for Big Dave. Most importantly, Batista has to retain enough of an animal persona to remain over as a face; he can't start pandering to the crowd too much.



I think of it more as the face Sid push that took legs of it's own against HBK in the 90's in San Antonio. Of course Batista can wrestle much better and actually talk, but both of them really started getting over because the fans chose to get behind them.

Of course the WWE doesn't always listen to the grass roots campains of the fans as was seen with RVD, but that neither here nor there.





Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 4 days
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.33
I watched RAW last night and I just wanted to clear something up: Is Randy Orton NOT going to be a victim to the Undertaker at Wrestlemania? I'm not sure becasue he really did not mention it in his promo.

Orton is awful. I hate him because I feel that he is not even trying. Every week he fucks up a promo somehow. If this were Shelton Benjamin or Christian or Rob Conway and each week they screwed up or delivered a lack luster promo, they'd either be banished to HEAT or fired. But Orton continues to get more and more mic time and that is pitiful. The only promos he has ever been good at were the "Randy Orton Updates" and those, for the most part, were pre-taped. I cringe when I hear his music and channel surf when he hits the screen. I can't wait for his move to Smackdown so he can no longer bore me on Monday nights.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.08
I just wanted to thank Snitsky and Kane for remembering that they hate each other. Good pick for a lumberjack fellas.
Texas Kelly
Lap cheong








Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.75
    Originally posted by Hogan's My Dad
    I still stand by my seemingly insane Orton statement. His weaknesses, of which there are many, can be better hidden by quality heel workers who know how not to emphasize them. As a heel, it's just out there for all to see, whether it be mic work or ten minutes of grunting chinlock that people seem to like better than Cena's stiff punches.
    When Orton has to do the carrying, you better hope the faces are incredible.

It's almost as if we're on the same wavelength, HMD. That is precisely the reason that I preferred Orton as a face and would have preferred to see him stay a face - he is a much better worker as a face than as a heel. It's so much easier to get into him watching heels beat the crap out of him - now, as a heel again, you're going to get the same boring matches dominated that you got before the face turn, highlighted by an amorous love for extended chinlocks. *sighs* It's definitely easier to learn how to promo (his drawback as a face) than it is to learn how to work (his drawback as a heel)... well, IWC, you got what you asked for. Don't say you're sorry later...



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AMG2K2
Haggis








Since: 27.11.03
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada!

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.05
    Originally posted by thefraserman
    It;s obvious HHH is going to lose at WM21.


No he's not. If anything, all this brouhaha has just furthered my suspicion that he'll actually retain at WM, with him going through the motions of a typical HHH feud: Long promo where he belittles everyone, lumberjack match, Batista still winning the day. I don't think next week is going to change anything, and neither will the few weeks after Wrestlemania.

We'll probably have a retaining finish, and then Trips will be all smiles before we pan to the ramp to see who won the 'Money in the Bank' match, smiling and such. As if that'll do anything.

Of course, I could be just bitter, but I smell a rat.



Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 196 days
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.75
Last night's ME actually makes me worried that Kane will win the Money In The Bank match at WM. He has a past with HHH, and now has suffered a loss against Batista. Having him win keeps him in the upper echelon, and he can then use his title opportunity the next night on Raw to finish off both angles (Kane vs. Batista Monster mini-feud and Winner gets a title shot storyline).

Christy's "trying" earned Molly Holly a stiff kick in the "nether regions." It disgusts me that Molly had to lay down for this so-called classy Raw Diva. Trish better win at WM.

Finally, a plea to Raw audiences: POP FOR SHELTON! He's doing better work and moves than anyone in the WWE right now, and he's still below half the faces on Raw in popularity.



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Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by Super Shane Spear
    I just wanted to thank Snitsky and Kane for remembering that they hate each other. Good pick for a lumberjack fellas.


Yeah, I picked up on that too. I was somewhat surprised that the announcers didn't counter HHH's plaintive "what are they DOING?" cries with explanations of (1) why Snitsky was attacking Kane and (2) why Christian, Edge, and Tomko were attacking Kane later on. Uhhh, how about pointing out how they're trying to weaken him for the ladder match, huh?
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by AMG2K2
      Originally posted by thefraserman
      It;s obvious HHH is going to lose at WM21.


    No he's not. If anything, all this brouhaha has just furthered my suspicion that he'll actually retain at WM...

Nah, HHH is doing the job, mainly because I think JBL will retain, setting up a Cena title win as the selling point for a SD-only PPV. I can't imagine what the crowd would do if both HHH & JBL retain.



Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 8 hours
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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.55
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    Nah, HHH is doing the job, mainly because I think JBL will retain, setting up a Cena title win as the selling point for a SD-only PPV. I can't imagine what the crowd would do if both HHH & JBL retain.


They would seek out TNA, the competition that dares to be different with its world ti-

Oh. Right.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Packman V2
Bratwurst








Since: 16.3.04
From: Albuquerque, NM

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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.31
Shelton Benjamin. Just wow. When he hit his somersault last night, I told my GF, the dude didnt even hit the ropes. She disagreed, and queued it back up on Tivo. Clean as they get. Nice reversal of the Poetry in Motion set up too. I can't say enough about the guy. Easily my favorite guy on Raw right now, and the fact he busts out the Stinger Splash doesn't hurt either. It's a good thing he has the IC belt right now, but I can't wait for them to start giving him more to do.

I felt Raw was better last week, with the exception of the HBK/Conway match. The crowd was way into that match, and it was very exciting to watch. I agree with the other posters about letting Rob do his own thing, I think he definitely has the ability. I mean, it's not like there is any such thing as a tag team any more.



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CANADIAN BULLDOG
Andouille








Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
I don't see why both faces can't win here...

I mean, so far, the Intercontinental, U.S. and possibly both sets of tag team championships are staying put because they're not even being defended, the cruiserweight title MAY change hands, and if there's any justice in the world, the women's title is probably staying around Trish's waist.

So I think given all that, it's not unreasonable to see both main titles change hands....



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Since: 15.6.03
From: Eire

Since last post: 3083 days
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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.67
OK show, not as good as last week. Tag match was great. And whats the deal with saying that batista shouldn't talk. The reason he got over big in the first place was his backstage stuff with Triple H. Duh.

Christy was unimpressive in the ring. Did you see the spot where she moved from the Molly-go-round? If she even stayed still Molly would've missed. She didnt make it look like she had a chance of hitting her.

And if i remember correctly, Freeway420, he spat on Harley Race and didn't RKO him.



Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by CANADIAN BULLDOG
    I don't see why both faces can't win here...

    I mean, so far, the Intercontinental, U.S. and possibly both sets of tag team championships are staying put because they're not even being defended, the cruiserweight title MAY change hands, and if there's any justice in the world, the women's title is probably staying around Trish's waist.

    So I think given all that, it's not unreasonable to see both main titles change hands....

I guess the thinking is that somebody's title win will outshine the other. WM will probably end w/ HHH/Batista, so depending on where JBL/Cena is slotted, I'm guessing Cena's win will be the 1 that gets overshadowed. Plus, if JBL does retain (and it would have to be by nefarious means), the result is you can sell a SD PPV on the strength of Cena finally getting the belt (and thus can judge his drawing ability). Plus, you can close out the PPV w/ Cena holding the belt high, as opposed to at WM, where the match would be at least a couple spots from the top, going on the theory that they wouldn't do back-to-back World Title matches.



AMG2K2
Haggis








Since: 27.11.03
From: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada!

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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.27
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
    I can't imagine what the crowd would do if both HHH & JBL retain.


Nothing, absolutely nothing. It's not like they're the ones calling the shots on the show, anyway.

Seriously, I do think that both champs will retain at Wrestlemania regardless of how 'feel good' it would be. Batista probably has a better chance than John Cena to win it but it will all be very temporary. The company has no clear way to build Batista or Cena as champion, and seems content with the 'long hated heel champ' route they've beaten to death. TNA is no better at this, either.

I could be just extremely cynical, and in that case, I should shut my mouth, but the build so far has just been giving me bad vibes about the whole thing.



sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
    Originally posted by Packman V2
    Shelton Benjamin. Just wow. When he hit his somersault last night, I told my GF, the dude didnt even hit the ropes. She disagreed, and queued it back up on Tivo. Clean as they get. Nice reversal of the Poetry in Motion set up too. I can't say enough about the guy. Easily my favorite guy on Raw right now, and the fact he busts out the Stinger Splash doesn't hurt either. It's a good thing he has the IC belt right now, but I can't wait for them to start giving him more to do.


The big drawback is that he has no real personality. They tried to do "the scrappy underdog who takes on all comers," and now he has beaten every heel (and some faces) who's even remotely on his level. So he's definitely not an underdog anymore, and his title defenses have lost any sense of drama, because you know he always goes over.

Where to go from here with Shelton? The guy needs a real, legitimate feud, and fast. He also needs a freaking personality; I don't remember ever seeing a notable Shelton promo, and that's not good for a guy who's the next great hope.
Lord of the Manor
Chourico








Since: 24.2.03
From: London, United Kingdom

Since last post: 421 days
Last activity: 343 days
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
    Originally posted by Packman V2
    Shelton Benjamin. Just wow. When he hit his somersault last night, I told my GF, the dude didnt even hit the ropes. She disagreed, and queued it back up on Tivo. Clean as they get. Nice reversal of the Poetry in Motion set up too. I can't say enough about the guy. Easily my favorite guy on Raw right now, and the fact he busts out the Stinger Splash doesn't hurt either. It's a good thing he has the IC belt right now, but I can't wait for them to start giving him more to do.


I think you'll have to keep waiting. Let's face it, anyone who thinks the WWE will some how push Shelton properly is fooling themselves. When have they ever successfully pushed a black wrestler without reducing him to some ebonics spewing stereotype? The WWE is run by a bunch of white guys (and Stephanie) who are putting on a show for white guys (and Randy orton fans). I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far history supports this.




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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.55
    Originally posted by sentonBOMB
    Where to go from here with Shelton? The guy needs a real, legitimate feud, and fast. He also needs a freaking personality; I don't remember ever seeing a notable Shelton promo, and that's not good for a guy who's the next great hope.


I like him because he's been able to communicate his character so well in the ring. Think of his small gestures: the this-close signal to Triple H, the chair over his head when he bashed in Snitsky. I didn't think his pre-Taboo Tuesday promo to Vince was that bad.

This is a character that is almost pure ringwork, so we get only rare skits backstage. has there been one since his conversation with Eric way back when? That's fine with me; it makes him more of a wrestling commodity than yet another tweener smartass.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
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