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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW March 21 2005
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thefraserman
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Since: 17.7.02
From: Nanaimo, British Columbia

Since last post: 720 days
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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.16
Talk about a strange team. Maven, Simon Dean, and frigging MOLLY HOLLY?? Like they drew names out of a hat.

Wow, a HHH Batista FACEOFF! Who's gonna drop the puck? Bichoff? McMahon? TUNE IN NEXT WEEK TO FIND OUT!!

It;s obvious HHH is going to lose at WM21.

You talking to me? Quite a funny commercial

(edited by thefraserman on 21.3.05 2013)
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The Great Thomas
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Since: 17.6.02
From: Miami, Florida

Since last post: 3283 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.31
I praise the Batista/Kane main event tonight! Good way to make your "Money in the Bank" contenders look like credible World Title threats by having Batista beating the crap out of them.



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Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Since last post: 3 hours
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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.08
I can't wait to hear Randy explain his actions tonight.

I get a huge chuckle seeing Maven drink Simon Dean's solution right before a match. Maven's face is so incredibly satisfied after taking a swig.
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 9 hours
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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.94
I liked the way that Lumber Jack match was booked. Instead of having a bunch of faces run in and have the match end in a clusterfuck, they went with a total meltdown of all the heel lumberjacks. Sure, it makes them all look weak ... then again most of them haven't looked strong in a long time. Kane looked to be in top form this week as well. (Where did Hassan run off to?)

Shelton Benjamin may be the best thing going in a WWE ring right now and he is still pretty green. I'm really starting to be impressed by him.

I'm alright with Orton going back heel, he's a shitty face.


    I get a huge chuckle seeing Maven drink Simon Dean's solution right before a match. Maven's face is so incredibly satisfied after taking a swig.


Not to mention his facial expressions when Snitsky and him kept bumping each other during Flair's pep talk.





(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 21.3.05 2324)

geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
Good opening contest. Not sure of the point, to job La Resistance two weeks in a row to the same guy....Christy got whipped into the turnbuckle pretty hard. Good effort there....Boring Trips promo that was basically a recap, with some no doubt controversial comparisons....I don't get Tomko using the ladder- he's not even in the WM match. Good, high-energy tag action though....

No Jake Roberts on Orton's shirt?....Orton finally back to being a heel, where he has belonged all along....Pretty short Benoit/Tomko match, which is what it should've been....A spoof of a spoof? The Michael Cole one made me bust a gut....I've been generous in analyzing Batista's matches thus far, but this one with Kane was awful. Constant whips into the turnbuckle and they looked like they were winded two minutes in.




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Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 7 hours
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.16

Welcome back to the land of heeldom, Randy ... you've been gone waaaay too long.

You know, Christy Hemme wasn't all that bad in her match. Granted she's no Trish or Molly, but she did a decent job.

So I'm wondering if Evolution will indeed be continuing after all? ...



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Phoenix37
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Since: 31.1.03
From: NP, Rhode Island

Since last post: 3015 days
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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.00
    Originally posted by geemoney
    No Jake Roberts on Orton's shirt?....


I guess Booker T is a legend now, and what exactly did Orton do to Stone Cold?



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Since: 5.3.03
From: TORONTO

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.33
    Originally posted by Mayhem
    So I'm wondering if Evolution will indeed be continuing after all? ...


Yes, the heel supergroup will most likely be reforming as Triple H, Ric Flair and Daivari. PLEASE! I mean, if they recruit, it's going to be someone like Benoit or possibly Edge, definitely not someone from "The Sunday Night Heat Express" in that lumberjack match tonight.

I was just joking with someone before, Triple H must be thinking "Dammit! That's the last time I put my trust in a random group of jobbers that can't even beat Val Venis!"



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Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.17
Thank GOD they finally turned Orton full-fledged heel. I was digging him in that role, and never really got into his face act, so I feel this is for the best.

Christy Hemme wasn't bad, and seemed to try really hard. I still wish they went with a Victoria or Molly for 'Mania, thouugh.

Liked the 'Mania commercial. Did not like the Batista/Bischoff segment. Can we please keep the guy off the mic and just let him be a kick-ass machine, plain and simple?

Speaking of which, I wasn't too pleased with how the Batista/Kane match went. Batista should be booked like a Goldberg, and I thought he showed way too much vulnarability (sp?).

Shelton Benjamin continues to bring the awesome. He's got quite a streak going now.

Triple H using the Terry Schiavo situation to get over a wrestling promo was... well, interesting.



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Spaceman Spiff
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 19 days
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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
That "Taxi Driver" spoof was the best WM commercial yet. Great job all around, esp. Big Show & Batista. Paul London even gets screen time!

Rob Conway is so wasted carrying Grenier's worthless ass. He really was on in the HBK match, while HBK seemed to be largely going through the motions. Give Conway a chance on his own. A Shelton/Conway feud? Sign me up.

Speaking of Shelton, that was a GORGEOUS dive during that 6-man tag match. Pretty good match, too.

Speaking of gorgeous, Trish...wow!

And I see Randy has regressed into repeating himself, repeating himself during his promos, his promos. Turning heel is a good idea, since only the females were buying him as a face.



geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
    Originally posted by OMEGA
    Did not like the Batista/Bischoff segment. Can we please keep the guy off the mic and just let him be a kick-ass machine, plain and simple?

I thought Batista did fine is his backstage segment with Bischoff.



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Spaceman Spiff
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 19 days
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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by geemoney
      Originally posted by OMEGA
      Did not like the Batista/Bischoff segment. Can we please keep the guy off the mic and just let him be a kick-ass machine, plain and simple?

    I thought Batista did fine is his backstage segment with Bischoff.

He really shouldn't be cracking jokes. His character is: he looks pimp, and kicks ass. Did they learn nothing by having Goldberg do comedy?



geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.89
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Originally posted by geemoney
        Originally posted by OMEGA
        Did not like the Batista/Bischoff segment. Can we please keep the guy off the mic and just let him be a kick-ass machine, plain and simple?

      I thought Batista did fine is his backstage segment with Bischoff.

    He really shouldn't be cracking jokes. His character is: he looks pimp, and kicks ass. Did they learn nothing by having Goldberg do comedy?

It's not like he's cracking jokes just for the sake of it....he sees through Bischoff's sucking-up and is taking a shot at him.



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Alpha Dog
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Since: 10.2.03

Since last post: 1743 days
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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.10
    Originally posted by OMEGA
    Christy Hemme wasn't bad, and seemed to try really hard. I still wish they went with a Victoria or Molly for 'Mania, thouugh.


So, make it like every women's match on Raw for the last 12 months or so then? No thanks, not when I can see it for free any Monday night.


    Originally posted by OMEGA
    Speaking of which, I wasn't too pleased with how the Batista/Kane match went. Batista should be booked like a Goldberg, and I thought he showed way too much vulnarability (sp?).


Vulnerability. The past year, Batista went from semi-talentless slug to someone who got over on his own, not by getting the Goldberg push but rather actually working and selling when tagging with Ric Flair.

The Goldberg push is a one-shot deal, and the law of diminishing returns has kicked in. It worked for Goldberg himself because everyone was so sick of the nWo and Hogan's act and were dying for new blood to be a threat.

The Goldberg push got middling results when they started it for Brock Lesnar, and they instead chose to create an actual three-dimensional character.

Face it, the age of the Goldberg push is over, and we would do well to quit clamoring for it.

As for the match, I thought it was quite a nice showcase for Kane carry the match, who can GO when he gets motivated to do so. It was a nice twist on Kane's usual "Monster v Monster" match, where Kane could not count on superior power to eventually triumph; rather, he had to try and change up and vary his attack (the rare Kane DDT and a relatively SWEET low dropkick) to stop this freight train Batista.

Benoit: "I'm good" in the Basic Instinct promo was hysterical.

(edited by Alpha Dog on 21.3.05 2053)
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 53 min.
#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.76
    Originally posted by Phoenix37
      Originally posted by geemoney
      No Jake Roberts on Orton's shirt?....


    I guess Booker T is a legend now, and what exactly did Orton do to Stone Cold?


Orton got the winning pinfall in the Survivor Series match that cost Austin his co-GM spot.

I don't remember Orton doing anything with Booker though. When was that?



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Nenz
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Since: 7.5.03

Since last post: 931 days
Last activity: 3 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.53
    Originally posted by hansen9j
      Originally posted by Phoenix37
        Originally posted by geemoney
        No Jake Roberts on Orton's shirt?....


      I guess Booker T is a legend now, and what exactly did Orton do to Stone Cold?


    Orton got the winning pinfall in the Survivor Series match that cost Austin his co-GM spot.

    I don't remember Orton doing anything with Booker though. When was that?


Also the date for Booker was 19 December 2003, which was a Friday. So unless Orton beat him at a house show I don't know why Booker T is on the list.

Edit: Thought Orton did beat Booker on 29 December 2003, which must be what it was meant to be.

(edited by Nenz on 22.3.05 0552)
Nimon
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Since: 12.7.04

Since last post: 3409 days
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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
    Originally posted by thefraserman
    Talk about a strange team. Maven, Simon Dean, and frigging MOLLY HOLLY?? Like they drew names out of a hat.


Not really. Maven and Molly teamed together last night on Heat, and Simon tagged with Maven against Regal & Tajiri last week.
Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

Since last post: 212 days
Last activity: 183 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.67
Randy Orton's Legend Killer Tour:

(ON SHIRT)
-Fabulous Moolah [9/15/03]: RKOed by Orton following a match with Victoria
-Shawn Michaels [9/21/03]: Pinned by Orton
-Stone Cold [11/16/03]: Orton scored winning pinfall in the match that cost Austin his job as co-GM
-Sgt. Slaughter [11/24/03]: Pinned by Orton
-Rob Van Dam [12/14/03]: Pinned by Orton for Intercontinental Title
-Booker T [12/19/03]: Typo on shirt. Actually pinned by Orton in IC Title defense on 12/29.
-Mick Foley [3/14/04]: Pinned by Orton in 3-on-2 Handicap Match.
-Cactus Jack [4/18/04]: Pinned by Orton in Hardcore Match
-Harley Race [4/26/04]: RKOed by Orton.

(NOT)
-Edge [5/10/04]: Pinned by Orton in IC Title defense.
-Shelton Benjamin [6/13/04]: Pinned by Orton in IC Title defense.
-Chris Jericho [7/5/04]: Pinned by Orton in IC Title defense.
-Chris Benoit [8/15/04]: Pinned by Orton for World Title
-Kane [9/6/04]: Pinned by Orton in World Title defense
-Ric Flair [10/19/04]: Lost Cage Match to Orton
-Batista [11/8/04]: Pinned by Orton
-Triple H [1/3/05]: Pinned by Orton
-Christian [2/14/05]: Pinned by Orton



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Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 26 days
Last activity: 26 days
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.41
    Originally posted by Alpha Dog
    The past year, Batista went from semi-talentless slug to someone who got over on his own, not by getting the Goldberg push but rather actually working and selling when tagging with Ric Flair.


Do you actually believe Batista got over on the quality of his ring work?

    Originally posted by Alpha Dog
    The Goldberg push is a one-shot deal, and the law of diminishing returns has kicked in. It worked for Goldberg himself because everyone was so sick of the nWo and Hogan's act and were dying for new blood to be a threat.


In that case it should work fine, because people are plenty sick of Triple H's act and are dying for new blood to be a threat. In fact, that sounds like the reason Batista got over. It worked for Goldberg because he was explosive and had physical charisma. He looked like he could destroy people and had a cool-looking finisher. He also held the Big Show upside down in the jackhammer for like eight seconds one time. The trend of assigning all these explanations to why Goldberg got over without ever assigning any credit whatsoever to the man himself is irritating.

    Originally posted by Alpha Dog
    The Goldberg push got middling results when they started it for Brock Lesnar, and they instead chose to create an actual three-dimensional character.


It didn't work with Brock Lesnar because he was not the least bit charismatic, and had the face of a child with some kind of HGH disease. They also rushed his push much more than Goldberg's. He debuted March of 1997 (on TV in Septemeber) and won the World Title in July of '98. Brock debuted in March of 2002 and won in August of 2002. Five months and he got the title. There's a reason people crapped on that, and while Lesnar eventually turned into ten times the worker Goldberg ever was, at the time he got the title he had to be carried constantly.

And when did they make Lesnar a three-dimensional character? He barely ever spoke, and when he did he sounded borderline retarded, saying things like "I the real Brock Lesnar is unstoppable!"

As far as RAW goes tonight, Smackdown last week was far better. Angle/Jannetty was better than any match on tonight's show. Rob Conway V.S. Michaels is not hearty enough to last over two segments a couple weeks before Wrestlemania. And are they seriously going to have Shawn defeat Hassan? It's not like Michaels needs to, especially not if he goes over Angle which he probably will.

I know I catch flack every time I criticize Orton, but he may be even worse as a heel than he is as a face. At least as a face he talks less, now I have to listen to him repeat himself like he's in Rain Man or something. And what does RKOing Stacy prove? Ross tried to explain it, but I really don't see the link. "If he'd do that to a woman who he just kissed, imagine what he'll do to a man who...won't kiss him at all!" Uh, yeah.

Hunter could have said that in 3-5 minutes. When he has a chair in the ring, because his legs will get tired before his promo is over, you know you're in trouble. JBL is completely outperforming Trips in the Mania buildup.

Trish looked delicious. Batista did well this week, but then again Kane is not exactly Snitsky.

I dunno, a show where nothing was can't miss this close to 'Mania is not a good thing.




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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 30 min.
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.46
"It worked for Goldberg because he was explosive and had physical charisma. He looked like he could destroy people and had a cool-looking finisher. He also held the Big Show upside down in the jackhammer for like eight seconds one time. The trend of assigning all these explanations to why Goldberg got over without ever assigning any credit whatsoever to the man himself is irritating."

Well said. Batista is hot enough at the moment that people will stay into him even if he goes 7 inadvisable minutes with Flair or 1+ inadvisable minutes with Snitsky, but it's a tenuous and fragile thing that I wouldn't want to f around with. Heat roster pinballing around for him, good; struggling out of spinning toe holds, bad.

"Five months and Lesnar got the title. There's a reason people crapped on that"

Crapped on it, I believe it got a massive face pop.

"I know I catch flack every time I criticize Orton,"

There's plenty to criticize about Randy Orton, I think ...

"but he may be even worse as a heel than he is as a face."

... but some semblance of perspective would be cool. :)
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The first place I saw it was on Pardon The Interruption yesterday. I was hoping it was Happy Birthday, and not Happy Trails, but alas. RIP to the greatest manager the Headshrinkers ever had.
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Related threads: RAW March 14, 2005 - RAW 3/7/05 - RAW Workrate Report 2/28/05 - More...
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