I liked the way that Lumber Jack match was booked. Instead of having a bunch of faces run in and have the match end in a clusterfuck, they went with a total meltdown of all the heel lumberjacks. Sure, it makes them all look weak ... then again most of them haven't looked strong in a long time. Kane looked to be in top form this week as well. (Where did Hassan run off to?)
Shelton Benjamin may be the best thing going in a WWE ring right now and he is still pretty green. I'm really starting to be impressed by him.
I'm alright with Orton going back heel, he's a shitty face.
I get a huge chuckle seeing Maven drink Simon Dean's solution right before a match. Maven's face is so incredibly satisfied after taking a swig.
Not to mention his facial expressions when Snitsky and him kept bumping each other during Flair's pep talk.
Good opening contest. Not sure of the point, to job La Resistance two weeks in a row to the same guy....Christy got whipped into the turnbuckle pretty hard. Good effort there....Boring Trips promo that was basically a recap, with some no doubt controversial comparisons....I don't get Tomko using the ladder- he's not even in the WM match. Good, high-energy tag action though....
No Jake Roberts on Orton's shirt?....Orton finally back to being a heel, where he has belonged all along....Pretty short Benoit/Tomko match, which is what it should've been....A spoof of a spoof? The Michael Cole one made me bust a gut....I've been generous in analyzing Batista's matches thus far, but this one with Kane was awful. Constant whips into the turnbuckle and they looked like they were winded two minutes in.
Originally posted by Mayhem So I'm wondering if Evolution will indeed be continuing after all? ...
Yes, the heel supergroup will most likely be reforming as Triple H, Ric Flair and Daivari. PLEASE! I mean, if they recruit, it's going to be someone like Benoit or possibly Edge, definitely not someone from "The Sunday Night Heat Express" in that lumberjack match tonight.
I was just joking with someone before, Triple H must be thinking "Dammit! That's the last time I put my trust in a random group of jobbers that can't even beat Val Venis!"
That "Taxi Driver" spoof was the best WM commercial yet. Great job all around, esp. Big Show & Batista. Paul London even gets screen time!
Rob Conway is so wasted carrying Grenier's worthless ass. He really was on in the HBK match, while HBK seemed to be largely going through the motions. Give Conway a chance on his own. A Shelton/Conway feud? Sign me up.
Speaking of Shelton, that was a GORGEOUS dive during that 6-man tag match. Pretty good match, too.
Speaking of gorgeous, Trish...wow!
And I see Randy has regressed into repeating himself, repeating himself during his promos, his promos. Turning heel is a good idea, since only the females were buying him as a face.
Originally posted by OMEGAChristy Hemme wasn't bad, and seemed to try really hard. I still wish they went with a Victoria or Molly for 'Mania, thouugh.
So, make it like every women's match on Raw for the last 12 months or so then? No thanks, not when I can see it for free any Monday night.
Originally posted by OMEGASpeaking of which, I wasn't too pleased with how the Batista/Kane match went. Batista should be booked like a Goldberg, and I thought he showed way too much vulnarability (sp?).
Vulnerability. The past year, Batista went from semi-talentless slug to someone who got over on his own, not by getting the Goldberg push but rather actually working and selling when tagging with Ric Flair.
The Goldberg push is a one-shot deal, and the law of diminishing returns has kicked in. It worked for Goldberg himself because everyone was so sick of the nWo and Hogan's act and were dying for new blood to be a threat.
The Goldberg push got middling results when they started it for Brock Lesnar, and they instead chose to create an actual three-dimensional character.
Face it, the age of the Goldberg push is over, and we would do well to quit clamoring for it.
As for the match, I thought it was quite a nice showcase for Kane carry the match, who can GO when he gets motivated to do so. It was a nice twist on Kane's usual "Monster v Monster" match, where Kane could not count on superior power to eventually triumph; rather, he had to try and change up and vary his attack (the rare Kane DDT and a relatively SWEET low dropkick) to stop this freight train Batista.
Benoit: "I'm good" in the Basic Instinct promo was hysterical.
(ON SHIRT) -Fabulous Moolah [9/15/03]: RKOed by Orton following a match with Victoria -Shawn Michaels [9/21/03]: Pinned by Orton -Stone Cold [11/16/03]: Orton scored winning pinfall in the match that cost Austin his job as co-GM -Sgt. Slaughter [11/24/03]: Pinned by Orton -Rob Van Dam [12/14/03]: Pinned by Orton for Intercontinental Title -Booker T [12/19/03]: Typo on shirt. Actually pinned by Orton in IC Title defense on 12/29. -Mick Foley [3/14/04]: Pinned by Orton in 3-on-2 Handicap Match. -Cactus Jack [4/18/04]: Pinned by Orton in Hardcore Match -Harley Race [4/26/04]: RKOed by Orton.
(NOT) -Edge [5/10/04]: Pinned by Orton in IC Title defense. -Shelton Benjamin [6/13/04]: Pinned by Orton in IC Title defense. -Chris Jericho [7/5/04]: Pinned by Orton in IC Title defense. -Chris Benoit [8/15/04]: Pinned by Orton for World Title -Kane [9/6/04]: Pinned by Orton in World Title defense -Ric Flair [10/19/04]: Lost Cage Match to Orton -Batista [11/8/04]: Pinned by Orton -Triple H [1/3/05]: Pinned by Orton -Christian [2/14/05]: Pinned by Orton
Originally posted by Alpha DogThe past year, Batista went from semi-talentless slug to someone who got over on his own, not by getting the Goldberg push but rather actually working and selling when tagging with Ric Flair.
Do you actually believe Batista got over on the quality of his ring work?
Originally posted by Alpha DogThe Goldberg push is a one-shot deal, and the law of diminishing returns has kicked in. It worked for Goldberg himself because everyone was so sick of the nWo and Hogan's act and were dying for new blood to be a threat.
In that case it should work fine, because people are plenty sick of Triple H's act and are dying for new blood to be a threat. In fact, that sounds like the reason Batista got over. It worked for Goldberg because he was explosive and had physical charisma. He looked like he could destroy people and had a cool-looking finisher. He also held the Big Show upside down in the jackhammer for like eight seconds one time. The trend of assigning all these explanations to why Goldberg got over without ever assigning any credit whatsoever to the man himself is irritating.
Originally posted by Alpha DogThe Goldberg push got middling results when they started it for Brock Lesnar, and they instead chose to create an actual three-dimensional character.
It didn't work with Brock Lesnar because he was not the least bit charismatic, and had the face of a child with some kind of HGH disease. They also rushed his push much more than Goldberg's. He debuted March of 1997 (on TV in Septemeber) and won the World Title in July of '98. Brock debuted in March of 2002 and won in August of 2002. Five months and he got the title. There's a reason people crapped on that, and while Lesnar eventually turned into ten times the worker Goldberg ever was, at the time he got the title he had to be carried constantly.
And when did they make Lesnar a three-dimensional character? He barely ever spoke, and when he did he sounded borderline retarded, saying things like "I the real Brock Lesnar is unstoppable!"
As far as RAW goes tonight, Smackdown last week was far better. Angle/Jannetty was better than any match on tonight's show. Rob Conway V.S. Michaels is not hearty enough to last over two segments a couple weeks before Wrestlemania. And are they seriously going to have Shawn defeat Hassan? It's not like Michaels needs to, especially not if he goes over Angle which he probably will.
I know I catch flack every time I criticize Orton, but he may be even worse as a heel than he is as a face. At least as a face he talks less, now I have to listen to him repeat himself like he's in Rain Man or something. And what does RKOing Stacy prove? Ross tried to explain it, but I really don't see the link. "If he'd do that to a woman who he just kissed, imagine what he'll do to a man who...won't kiss him at all!" Uh, yeah.
Hunter could have said that in 3-5 minutes. When he has a chair in the ring, because his legs will get tired before his promo is over, you know you're in trouble. JBL is completely outperforming Trips in the Mania buildup.
Trish looked delicious. Batista did well this week, but then again Kane is not exactly Snitsky.
I dunno, a show where nothing was can't miss this close to 'Mania is not a good thing.
Hot Virgins-The World's Most Steadily Shrinking Commodity
"It worked for Goldberg because he was explosive and had physical charisma. He looked like he could destroy people and had a cool-looking finisher. He also held the Big Show upside down in the jackhammer for like eight seconds one time. The trend of assigning all these explanations to why Goldberg got over without ever assigning any credit whatsoever to the man himself is irritating."
Well said. Batista is hot enough at the moment that people will stay into him even if he goes 7 inadvisable minutes with Flair or 1+ inadvisable minutes with Snitsky, but it's a tenuous and fragile thing that I wouldn't want to f around with. Heat roster pinballing around for him, good; struggling out of spinning toe holds, bad.
"Five months and Lesnar got the title. There's a reason people crapped on that"
Crapped on it, I believe it got a massive face pop.
"I know I catch flack every time I criticize Orton,"
There's plenty to criticize about Randy Orton, I think ...
"but he may be even worse as a heel than he is as a face."
... but some semblance of perspective would be cool. :)
Right, Evolution certainly works better than DX with HHH's current character at the helm. But this entire thread was talking about Shawn Michaels starting a brand new version of DX to feud with HHH, so that particular point isn't relevant.