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23.4.14 1708
The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW last night was to win back former fans
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samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 189 days
Last activity: 181 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.27
Did anyone else get the idea that RAW last night wasn't really about putting on a great show for the hardcore fans, but putting on a good show for people who may just be tuning in because they heard about The Rock, and they know Wrestlamania 20 is coming right up?

It seems to me that the enitre episode was geared towards things from the past that were very popular:

- Opening up with the Kane/Taker segment, with the return of the urn.
- They showed the first 'This is Your Life', hopefully getting these people who saw it the first time around excited to see the the 2nd version. Throwing Snuka out there sure made alot of old school fans happy. Having The Rock, probably the number one reason former fans would have tuned in, beaten down to end the show would give people a reason to order WMXX, and see their hero get revenge.
- Benoit was shown to be a killer by squashing Hardy, which makes sense because out of the 3 guys in the Triple Threat, he's the only one who these former fans would not know much about. They did a good job of showing Benoit to be a legitimate contender before the whole promo deal happened, so people would have a better understanding of what was going on and that all three of these men should be considered legitimate main eventers.
- Austin came out and did his usual thing, which although it does happen every week, is sure to appeal strongly to fans of a past era.

There's probably more little things to put here that I missed. But the point is that despite how Raw tonight sucked in the eyes of hardcore fans, I think WWE did a very good job of enticing old school fans and fans of the Attitude Era to see Wrestlemania 20, and hopefully hook a few of them to start watching full time again.





snoogans


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redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 296 days
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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
I'll give the other side of the coin to that argument, which is probably what they were trying to do. However, say those fans still don't tune in, and you get a rating similar to the last six weeks of Mania build. That means you wasted the lead in show to the biggest card of the year targeting a group that won't watch it for free, so why expect them to pay 40 dollars for it? While doing this, you could potentially piss off your die hard fans. No, they won't stop watching. But, perhaps they save 40 bucks on Mania. Or, perhaps they decide they'll get Mania, and skip purchasing another PPV.



Latest news out of Hollywood is that Sid Eudy was offered the role of Jesus in The Passion. Unfortunately, that fell through due to Sid's continued insistence that he be crucified under the title: King of the Squirrels.
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    While doing this, you could potentially piss off your die hard fans. No, they won't stop watching. But, perhaps they save 40 bucks on Mania. Or, perhaps they decide they'll get Mania, and skip purchasing another PPV.


I personally loved the show last night, and would buy Mania over Backlash or Judgment Day 10 times out of 10. But strengthening your argument a bit is the fact that Mania is actually 50 bucks.
SC
Potato korv








Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.91
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
    I personally loved the show last night, and would buy Mania over Backlash or Judgment Day 10 times out of 10. But strengthening your argument a bit is the fact that Mania is actually 50 bucks.


I thought it was terrible and would buy Mania over Backlash or Judgment Day 10 times out of 10. I think most people would buy Mania over anything else 10 times out of 10, specifically casualish fans, even if it's $50. I think a lot more is being made of it being $50 than there needs to be considering enough people buy the other crap that they can still charge them $35 regularly for it.



Scott Christ
All them women gonna make me teach 'em what they don't know how.

samoflange
Lap cheong








Since: 22.2.04
From: Cambridge, MA

Since last post: 189 days
Last activity: 181 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.43

The thing is, fans who have been watching WWE programming this whole time WILL be watching WMXX anyway. Last night show would really do nothing to stop that, as all of the matches have been set up and the key storyline elements ahve been set into place. Last night was more of a WWE Show & Tell which did more to put the spotlight on feuds and matches rather than have anything new come about. Now, for us fans who watch WWE weekly, we'd like to have something new happen, something to talk about and make WMXX seem even better in our eyes. But, instead WWE realized that we will watch WWE regardless and figured they could use the time to try to draw in more of an audience.

I think it was a nice move to have Austin play up the fact that he will be on Smackdown this week. Another smart move to get some fans who may just be tuning back in after a long absence to see one of the all-time fan favorite tell them what to watch.


Sidenote: anyone who says they will forgoe watching WMXX this weekend, and yet still calls themselves a "fan" is retarded. I don't care how unhappy you may be with the storylines and matches, if you call yourself a fan, and in fact are enough of one to post on a wrestling related message board then why the hell would you not watch Wrestlemania XX? I think you honkys are crazyyyy



snoogans


CRZ
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Since: 9.12.01
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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.65
    Originally posted by samoflange
    Sidenote: anyone who says they will forgoe watching WMXX this weekend, and yet still calls themselves a "fan" is retarded. I don't care how unhappy you may be with the storylines and matches, if you call yourself a fan, and in fact are enough of one to post on a wrestling related message board then why the hell would you not watch Wrestlemania XX? I think you honkys are crazyyyy
On the other hand, you talk too much.



CRZ
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by samoflange
    Sidenote: anyone who says they will forgoe watching WMXX this weekend, and yet still calls themselves a "fan" is retarded. I don't care how unhappy you may be with the storylines and matches, if you call yourself a fan, and in fact are enough of one to post on a wrestling related message board then why the hell would you not watch Wrestlemania XX? I think you honkys are crazyyyy

$50 is an awful lot for the 2 or 3 matches I have any kind of interest in (Eddy/Angle, Cruiser match, HHH/Benoit/HBK). In fact, I don't buy *any* PPV's. If the show is good, I'll pick up the DVD, and save myself ~$20 or so.

Basically, your argument is "ignore all the bad stuff, and throw your money at Vince anyway." Because, hey, what better way to express your displeasure than to swallow everything Vince feeds you.



oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1804 days
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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.36
"$50 is an awful lot for the 2 or 3 matches I have any kind of interest in (Eddy/Angle, Cruiser match, HHH/Benoit/HBK). In fact, I don't buy *any* PPV's. If the show is good, I'll pick up the DVD, and save myself ~$20 or so.

Basically, your argument is "ignore all the bad stuff, and throw your money at Vince anyway." Because, hey, what better way to express your displeasure than to swallow everything Vince feeds you."

*Shakes head*

Sorry to call you on this again, but I just don't get it. This is probably the best-built pay-per-view since X-7. Everything has been given some importance going in. It just doesn't compute with me that, after their best run of build and shows in well over a year, you still just don't care. This isn't an attack, or an attempt at belittling you or anything like that, i just genuinely want to understand what it is needs to be done. Because your attitude just seems unreasonable. It's not like you're saying "I don't care, so whatever happens doesn't matter to me", you actively attack WWE for being something that, in all probability, it will never be, something that it has never said it will be, something that most fans don't want it to be.

Again, not an attack, not saying "You're WRONG for not ordering WMXX!!!", just trying to understand.





"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"

redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 296 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.45
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    "$50 is an awful lot for the 2 or 3 matches I have any kind of interest in (Eddy/Angle, Cruiser match, HHH/Benoit/HBK). In fact, I don't buy *any* PPV's. If the show is good, I'll pick up the DVD, and save myself ~$20 or so.

    Basically, your argument is "ignore all the bad stuff, and throw your money at Vince anyway." Because, hey, what better way to express your displeasure than to swallow everything Vince feeds you."

    *Shakes head*

    Sorry to call you on this again, but I just don't get it. This is probably the best-built pay-per-view since X-7. Everything has been given some importance going in. It just doesn't compute with me that, after their best run of build and shows in well over a year, you still just don't care. This isn't an attack, or an attempt at belittling you or anything like that, i just genuinely want to understand what it is needs to be done. Because your attitude just seems unreasonable. It's not like you're saying "I don't care, so whatever happens doesn't matter to me", you actively attack WWE for being something that, in all probability, it will never be, something that it has never said it will be, something that most fans don't want it to be.

    Again, not an attack, not saying "You're WRONG for not ordering WMXX!!!", just trying to understand.







To be somewhat fair, his argument is if it turns out to be a good show, Vince will get money from him (although less than the original price), and instead of only being able to view it once, he will have the opportunity to view it as many times as he wishes on DVD without spending more than the initial DVD price. So, there is a logic to it. Plus, it allows him to only view what interests him, and skip over the fluff/crap (and, there is a percentage of that booked into the show). And, if something goes haywire and the show ends up turning into Mania IX (highly doubtful, but for theoritical arguments sake), he saves 50 bucks.



Latest news out of Hollywood is that Sid Eudy was offered the role of Jesus in The Passion. Unfortunately, that fell through due to Sid's continued insistence that he be crucified under the title: King of the Squirrels.
JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.54
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    This is probably the best-built pay-per-view since X-7. Everything has been given some importance going in.


It's been built better, IMO. It doesn't have the blow-away main event like Rock-Austin, but the 3-way has been built since January, Eddie-Kurt from about the point Angle got in between the Guerrero family squabble, Rock & Sock/Evo since December when the thing with Orton and Foley started, Xian-Jericho since November/December, Cena-Show since January, Lesnar-Goldberg and Taker/Kane since November. If you're starting towards Mania at Survivor Series, especially in a monthly/bi monthly PPV environment, you're doing pretty good.

By comparison, a lot of X-7 was thrown together in the last month. But while the main for X-7 had the bigger marquee value, this card seems to be more solid in its build from top to bottom.

(edited by Blanket Jackson on 9.3.04 1504)


Goddamn this is one wacky game show!
asteroidboy
Andouille








Since: 22.1.02
From: Texas

Since last post: 1246 days
Last activity: 155 days
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.95
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      This is probably the best-built pay-per-view since X-7. Everything has been given some importance going in.


    It's been built better, IMO. It doesn't have the blow-away main event like Rock-Austin, but the 3-way has been built since January, Eddie-Kurt from about the point Angle got in between the Guerrero family squabble, Rock & Sock/Evo since December when the thing with Orton and Foley started, Xian-Jericho since November/December, Cena-Show since January, Lesnar-Goldberg and Taker/Kane since November. If you're starting towards Mania at Survivor Series, especially in a monthly/bi monthly PPV environment, you're doing pretty good.

    By comparison, a lot of X-7 was thrown together in the last month. But while the main for X-7 had the bigger marquee value, this card seems to be more solid in its build from top to bottom.

    (edited by Blanket Jackson on 9.3.04 1504)


In terms of buildup, this Wrestlemania has been one of the longest in recent memory, with matches like Kane/Undertaker, Goldberg/Brock even Cena/Big Show having been teased since Survivor Series.

They've even done a decent job with the triple threat. It pains me to say that because I'd rather it be one-on-one, but they've at least tried to create some believable animosity between Benoit and HBK.

Foley and Orton has been brewing for months, even if they just brought Rock in last week. And Jericho/Christian have been given multiple segments of the soap opera treatment.

Hell, the shortest buildup has been Eddie and Angle at less than a month, but I'll wager that's the most anticipated match on this board.

X-7 by comparison was very thrown together, and people were bitching about it then, too. Especially with Rock and Austin and that silly aborted bit with Debra. HHH and Undertaker was given about a month, after HHH beat Austin in the Three Stages of Hell match, then bragged the next week about how he'd beaten everyone there was to beat. Probably the longest buildup on the card was the fun Vince vs. Shane match.

I don't remember much of the other buildups, like Angle and Benoit or the dynamite three-way hardcore match between Kane, Big Show and Raven.

And X-8 was absolute shit in terms of buildup, only to be bailed out by Rock and Hogan.

My point is that even though this Mania still lacks a big marquee name matchup, they've done pretty well with what they've got.



-- Asteroid Boy


Wiener of the day: 23.7.02

"My brother saw the Undertaker walking through an airport." - Rex
"Was he no-selling?" - Me


Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
To me, if I don't care about the participants in the match, the build-up isn't going to get me to care. Let's look at the card:

--Molly/Victoria - should be passable, but I'm not into the women's division

--Cena/Show - could be good, but not enough for $50

--Playboy match - c'mon

--Raw 4-way - I like Book, and I like Les Res, but there's really been no build for this match. Add that into me not really caring for everyone else.

--SD 4-way - hate APA, hate 2-Cool, but like the other 2 teams. Should be good though.

--Taker/Kane - don't like either guy, so no amount of lightning, fog, hydrolic rings, or Paul Bearer is going to pique my interest. Zero interest here.

--Cruiser open - this I could get into

--Brock/Goldy - love Brock, but I'm not expecting a great match.

--Foley/Rock vs. Evol. - other than Flair, I'm not a big fan of anyone here

--Christian/Jericho - OK, here's another match I could get into, plus the story has been good.

--HHH/Benoit/HBK - Provided the correct guy wins (Benoit), this could be quite enjoyable

--Eddy/Angle - another great match, with a good story so far

So, that makes it 4 or 5 (depending on Cena/Show) matches that I could really get into. That's less than 1/2 the card, and certainly anough to get my $50. I'll most likely pick up the DVD, because there are some matches I want to see, but not for $50. If it was a normally priced PPV, then I'd seriously consider it. In fact, when it looked like Benoit/Brock was slated for WM, I was leaning towards getting the show.

I fully realize that "my WWE" would be out of business in a year, but it doesn't change the fact that I'll be discerning when it comes to giving them my money.



JoshMann
Andouille








Since: 17.11.03
From: Tallahassee, FL

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.54
    Originally posted by asteroidboy
    I don't remember much of the other buildups, like Angle and Benoit or the dynamite three-way hardcore match between Kane, Big Show and Raven.


Both of them were set up the week before. Well, the Angle-Benoit thing had been brewing for a couple of weeks to that point but Angle opened the March 25 RAW IS ALL THAT's LEFT episode by saying that the big news around the wrestling world was that he didn't have a match for Mania. And Benoit came out to say "me neither...so if you're uh, not, uh, busy or anything Sunday, maybe, uh...maybe we can....EAT SOME CROSSFACE, BEYY-OTCH!!!"

OK, I made some of that up.

The hardcore match was IIRC Raven being punished by Regal for something, but I can't be bothered to remember when it was booked, but it couldn't have been more than 2 weeks prior.

Really, the best-built matches story-wise for x-7 were the TLC match, The McMahon Fest and (get this) Ivory-Chyna, in that it had an angle that lasted more than 6 weeks prior.



Goddamn this is one wacky game show!
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
    Originally posted by Blanket Jackson
      Originally posted by asteroidboy
      I don't remember much of the other buildups, like Angle and Benoit or the dynamite three-way hardcore match between Kane, Big Show and Raven.


    Both of them were set up the week before. Well, the Angle-Benoit thing had been brewing for a couple of weeks to that point but Angle opened the March 25 RAW IS ALL THAT's LEFT episode by saying that the big news around the wrestling world was that he didn't have a match for Mania. And Benoit came out to say "me neither...so if you're uh, not, uh, busy or anything Sunday, maybe, uh...maybe we can....EAT SOME CROSSFACE, BEYY-OTCH!!!"

    OK, I made some of that up.


That's how I remember it.

And another classic build: Jericho pissing in Regal's teapot. I'm not saying XX's build is flawless, but come on...
Joe E. Nitro
Salami








Since: 4.2.04

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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.07

    *Shakes head*

    Sorry to call you on this again, but I just don't get it. This is probably the best-built pay-per-view since X-7. Everything has been given some importance going in. It just doesn't compute with me that, after their best run of build and shows in well over a year, you still just don't care. This isn't an attack, or an attempt at belittling you or anything like that, i just genuinely want to understand what it is needs to be done. Because your attitude just seems unreasonable. It's not like you're saying "I don't care, so whatever happens doesn't matter to me", you actively attack WWE for being something that, in all probability, it will never be, something that it has never said it will be, something that most fans don't want it to be.

    Again, not an attack, not saying "You're WRONG for not ordering WMXX!!!", just trying to understand.



Maybe I'm just not feelin' it, but I'm really not buying the hype here. There are a couple of matches that I would really like to see, but we're talkin' 50 bucks here. For 50 bucks I want to be entertained for the full 4 hours and I just don't see this show doing that for me. I'm not saying that the show is going to be bad, but I think that I can get more bang for my buck elsewhere.


oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.21
"Maybe I'm just not feelin' it, but I'm really not buying the hype here. There are a couple of matches that I would really like to see, but we're talkin' 50 bucks here. For 50 bucks I want to be entertained for the full 4 hours and I just don't see this show doing that for me. I'm not saying that the show is going to be bad, but I think that I can get more bang for my buck elsewhere."

Five hours, dude. And if you're not getting a feeling o all-round solidity from this, I'd wager you're not going to buy a WWE PPV ever again. If there's one thing you could say about the XX card, it's that it's solid from top to bottom-nothing blow-away Mania moment quality, but nothing downright hideous either.

And Spiff, fair enough. I just feel that your dislike of the product is kind of redundant. It's sorta like me watching Starsky & Hutch and bitching because it isn't NYPD Blue, ya know? Ah well, to each his own.



"You're A Big Hunk Of Hero Sandwich, And You Wanna Save The Girl!"

Kain
Cotto








Since: 9.2.04
From: Earth

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.12
Dang... I missed Raw! :(




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Barbwire Mike
Boudin rouge








Since: 6.11.03
From: Dudleyville

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.43
Entire rest of the show is irrelevant. Thumbs up for the whole night on "I keep my back door open for strudel" alone.



Lethalwrestling.com: If you don't read us, you're probably gay
LotusMegami
Salami








Since: 22.9.03
From: Indiana

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.35
That bit about Shawn respecting Benoit more than anyone else seems a bad omen. I've heard him say that to someone before.

Matches I care about:
Eddy vs. Angle
Taker vs. Kane
HHH vs. HBK vs. Benoit

Worth $50? I think I'll wait until they're done reminiscing about the Attitude Era and are ready to move on. Unless Benoit loses. In which case the WWE will never get any of my money again. If he gets screwed, I'm writing to tell them so.



Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.53
I find myself losing interest in Wrestlemania as it approaches rather then gaining it.

Matches that I'm totally interested in. Eddie/Angle, I think the build has been wonder, it seems really important, I'm really feeling the characters and story going into this. 2 guys that seem to be on top of their game right now... Undertaker/Kane, for totally different reasons. Pretty much for the spectacle of what undertaker will bring on Sunday.

Matches that have more positives for me but still up in the air of how it will come off. Jericho/Christian could be the most interesting match in the card, if the fans really bite into it could be a total sleeper and a top 3 match of the night if they don't could be trouble. Lot's of intrigue for me of everything going around this story... Victoria/ Molly, I'm a big fan of these two, little worried if Victoria as a babyface character is ready for main stage one on one match. The hair stipulation should help. Hope they make this women wrestling mark happy.

Now on more negatives that I might be minority in, HHH/ HBK/Benoit, I look at a 3way as just a set up for a more important one on one match down the road. Should a Wrestlemania title match seem like just a set up match?... Rock n' Sock/Evolution, As much as they push Orton and Batista, I cannot lie to myself. I don't see these guys anywhere in the same league as Rock or Foley.

Matches that I was hype but losing interest fast. Brock/ Goldberg, I did have big time interest for this. I still kind of do even though to total lack of Goldberg in the last month has taken away alot of interest for me... The only U.S title match I remember BigShow defending against is a long match vs. Billy Gunn. The U.S title has lost all meaning with BigShow. So all interest of this match is can the young upstart beat The Big Giant. Could be okay but not totally interested.

Now we have the oh so original 4 corner tag title match for both brands. On the Raw side little to no story build with guys like Cade/Jindrak in there, while a bit better job on the SD side but still Rikishi/Scotty, APA and Bashams are all teams I could care less for... The Playboy match is garbage. And the cruiser even though it could be a good workrate match it still seems like Chavo, Rey and maybe Tajiri and a bunch of guys who never get pushed. But they might wow me with spots which might be fun

I'm on the fence if I'm getting this or just wait for it to come on video. There are two or three matches I'm really interested in and add in the Undertaker stuff which would be cool seeing live to air. But there's alot of average to disinteresting stuff that I just don't know if it's worth it. Raw didn't sell me on anything, maybe Smackdown will.




smark/net attack wienerville advisory is lowered to BLUE alert - Guarded (Due to Eddie being WWE champ and facing Angle at WM, Benoit winning the Rumble in World title match in mania BUT Kliq members is still a threat - Vince you can save us from these threats) 2/17

Honors for Smartest thing ever written, 5th Horseman "When Victoria, Trish, Molly, and Lilian were in the ring.. I commented to my friends that all of the 4 ladies in the ring were hotter than the all 4 that are fighting over who is the hottest in the WWE"
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I don't really know how to respond to this....I wasn't even saying that I was offended by the Eddie signs, I was just wondering (what, with all the JR bashing for one innocent comment)
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