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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW Is Bischoff (2/17) (Page 3)
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Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 511 days
Last activity: 471 days
#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.44

    Originally posted by Boston Idol
    I hate to post off topic, but how can a guy whose experience total looks like a phone number still be ranked as a "jobber to the stars?" Please don't tell me that this is all random.

Click Here
Basically, your level is based on your number of posts, not your experience.
TheMarketingMajor
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: University of Pittsburgh, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

Since last post: 4266 days
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AIM:  
#42 Posted on
Exploding concrete blocks infuriate me. They are among the few business exposing items that really piss me off. I know it's a small thing but I had to speak on the matter. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I just don't want to think about it anymore.



Another Rollback saves your FRUIT BOOTY!


Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2734 days
Last activity: 2733 days
#43 Posted on
I don't know. I didn't really like the show too much. Except for Y2J and Christian, who are so underrated in the looks department, and Jazz and Victoria, who got me more pumped up than I was in a while, not much was going on. I understand how they want to tease Austin, but all this teasing has really made some of us really impatient. I'll just say that I've seen better pre-PPV editions of RAW. Hell, one year ago, this time there was that renewal ceremony, and Steph got dumped on her ass, then Daddy sics Kurt Angle on HHH at NWO with Steph as the referee (I admit, I thought she was a riot as the referee, and I LOVE the sparkly WWF insignia on her uniform). THAT was better than this, and I haven't watched soap operas in 7 years!

Ringmistress



Proper planning prevents piss poor performance"
William Regal

Learn it and live it, Vinnie Mac!
Texas Kelly
Lap cheong








Since: 3.1.02
From: FOREST HILLS CONTROLS THE UNIVERSE

Since last post: 108 days
Last activity: 1 day
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#44 Posted on
The one thing that's bugged me throughout this whole Austin thing... I thought Vince *didn't* want Austin back. Did Raw X never happen?



He's the King of the World... & You Just Live in It, Junior!

SAVE US, TOMMY DREAMER!!!

DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 15 days
#45 Posted on
More random thoughts

- It's good to see that the RAW before the PPV, they had the main event be the #1 face vs. #1 heel. You know the writers are doing something right when Jim Ross gets bigger pops than Michaels and Booker, while Bischoff gets more heat than HHH and Jericho. Hey, remember when they used to do this stuff with like, wrestlers instead of commentators and commisioners. But I'm just a fan, Vince is the billionaire.

- Steve Austin is the baddest man on the planet, the rattlesnake, toughest SOB, etc..... and his best friend is a 50-something pudgy play by play guy? Jesus, that's like finding out that Mike Tyson, in his heyday used to go over to Jim Lampley's house for Yatzee and tea. Guys, if you want him to be tough, at least make him friends with Jazz or someone.

- If Triple H is God, well, he's really not using his powers too well. Stuck in a midcard feud, getting no promo time, overshadowed by Bischoff and Lawler, pinned by a midcarder. By the rate he's going, not only will he have to marry Stephanie, he'll have to clean Vince's pool and service Linda when he's not around to get into a semi decent feud.

- The funniest moment on RAW was when JR said during the HHH/Batista vs Booker/Steiner match about Randy Orton: "He may have a brighter future than anyone in that ring". Let's see, a guy who's retiring in 2 years, a walking cripple, a broken down has been and a guy who ever since he's been on RAW, has done 3 moves. Way to go out on a limb Ross.

- When Jonathan Coachman does play-by-play, it makes me wish the Rock would come out and make him dance.





By the way, Storm's gimmick includes 1.) telling the audience to shut up, and 2.) occasionally making everyone stand for the Canadian national anthem. You know they don't know what to do with a wrestler when he's making fans stand for a national anthem. It's like waving a white flag and saying, "This guy has no personality -- we give up."

ESPN's Bill Simmons
dskillz
Landjager








Since: 2.1.02
From: Houston Texas

Since last post: 3259 days
Last activity: 2964 days
#46 Posted on

    Originally posted by Texas Kelly
    The one thing that's bugged me throughout this whole Austin thing... I thought Vince *didn't* want Austin back. Did Raw X never happen?



Last Week Vince said something to the effect that he hates Austin, but he would love to see Eric try to control him if he comes back. Of course that makes no sense, but that is what he said.



January 4th 1999 - The day WCW injected itself with 10 gallons of Liquid Anthrax...AKA...The day Hogan "Defeated" Nash to win the WCW title in front of 40,000.
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 4 hours
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#47 Posted on

    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    a walking cripple, a broken down has been and a guy who ever since he's been on RAW, has done 3 moves.


Which one of those was Scott Steiner again?
Mr. Boffo
Scrapple








Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 511 days
Last activity: 471 days
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.44

    Originally posted by InVerse

      Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
      a walking cripple, a broken down has been and a guy who ever since he's been on RAW, has done 3 moves.


    Which one of those was Scott Steiner again?


Triple H is the one usually refered to as a cripple, so Steiner must be the has been. But really, he fits all three of them.
Net Hack Slasher
Banger








Since: 6.1.02
From: Outer reaches of your mind

Since last post: 3649 days
Last activity: 2069 days
#49 Posted on
Did Stacy & Test take a walk with D'lo off the face of the earth? I was really surprised they weren't on the card especially with the their push against Jericho and GGW. Do I dare dream they dropped that GGW idea, please!... I liked the show, I must admit the Raw side of the PPV is really weak. But I did enjoy the show tonight a lot, best in a month.

-RVD vs. Storm- The match was fine and entertaining enough. But I think it was really slow at times and I know these two could do better. They were given over 7 minutes which is really great, but again they really didn't use this time to show how great they are. They weren't as quick as usual. Oh well, just their skill alone made this a good match, but if they were more on it could have been great. I agree some selling by Rob would be nice.

-Bischoff promo- DeadCowWalking to the ring. Didn't say anything earthshattering, just set up a bunch of matches. He did tease Austin in the building which I bought for a millisecond

-Jazz/Victoria vs. Jackie/Molly- Eah, the heel side is fine, but the face side is in major trouble if Jackie in Maryland is the #1face. If you feel Trish needs time off they should have had Molly turn months ago and do a BookDust type odd couple with Trish (which has been suggested here repetitively) instead they turn her over night have her get squashed by the 2 top heels in consecutive weeks and team her with an just as unover Jackie. Very dumb. I would have even like Stacy team with Molly, atleast you'd have someone the fans care about in the match.

As for Victoria/Jazz confrontation, very good for me. I just don't know if it's going to work. One example is some here think Jazz is playing more face, I think Victoria is. Jazz is being the aggressor on the faces I think that's more heel then Victoria. If we can't figure it out, how will the general audience. I would still like to hold off this feud, they both can be such great heels playing against a hopefully returning soon Trish and a Molly (with a Trish rub)

-Rodney Mack vs. Al Snow- Rodney Mack is here to replace D'lo so he almost breaks Al Snow's neck. Sloppy tigerbomb. How ironic Al trains a bunch of wannabe wrestlers and comes out fine. Has a match with a "professional" and almost gets crippled.

-Jeff Hardy/Michaels vs. Jericho/Christian- Silly me expecting Jeff to show his heel side. I guess he's full fledged face (xtreme gurls happy everywhere EWWW). 7 minutes and the match seemed centered around Jericho cuffing Shawn. I don't mind HBK getting the key. The match didn't have much substance, but it felt like it served a purpose, don't really know what it is. But it felt like it served something LoL. Is any of these guys on the PPV, where's Test?

-Hurricane vs. Nowinski- Hurricane is back that's great and he's wrestling Nowinski double bonus! This was my favorite match of the night. Can't say nothing bad about this at all. Great to see Hurricane's injury wasn't serious and he's back on TV. One of the Raw guys I'm always happy to see.

-3minuteWarning/Rico vs. Spike- On the other hand. 3MW squishes Spike. Rico was atleast entertaining prancing around.

-Booker/Steiner vs. HHH/Batistia- Why does Orton stand behind the Huge H. Can't he walk beside him?. Strange that the two most mobile white guys in this segment are on the outside of the ring. This match was slow when Booker wasn't in there. HHH seems to be favoring that leg alot while running the ropes. I'll give some credit to Steiner this is the best he looked since his WWE debut (which isn't saying much). Surprised Booker got the win especially when HE also doesn't seem to have a PPV match.

-Bischoff vs. Ross- I really found Bischoff's pre match act entertaining. I knew the block was going to be used. But I was sure it would be by JR. Shattering the block on JR head was unexpected and kind of cool. If King gets whacked around is a good thing too. I liked the ending.

-other stuff- Great amazing tribute for Hennig. They should have showed those clips when he came back last year Some "top" net writers who overreacted last week might think of admitting their mistakes, that will never happen... Nice backstage interview with Jericho/ Christian "Girls scream when I take my shirt off for years". The Jericho tribute to Hennig was a nice touch... I'm getting a little worried with Goldust acting "strange", please don't ruin one of the only interesting gimmick character you got... I like the song for No Way Out, finally WWE going with some different type of music.

I liked Raw tonight. I'd call it way above average Raw show. Austin just better sign with Raw, if he doesn't this show is screwed, because I'm hearing some reports he might go to SD. He has to come to Raw. And for next week with the hopeful return of Austin and Trish "buh gawd" Stratus, Raw should pick up even more

Line of the Night: Lawler after a 3MW splash on Spike "JR you could do that!"

Sign of the Night "I luv Trish"





Oh they have the internet on computers now!
The King of Keith
Lap cheong








Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 9 days
AIM:  
#50 Posted on
it's now being reported that stacy and test missed raw last night due to the weather and their program was scrapped. basically the WWE is pissed at them for being so stupid and waiting till the last minute to try and make it to columbus. I do have to side with the WWE on this one. They'd been calling for heavy, heavy snow in the area all week. We around here have been calling it Snowstorm Armageddon.



Welcome back, Jazz! We missed you!
Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2928 days
Last activity: 2721 days
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
: Do I dare dream they dropped that GGW idea, please!

Rumor has it that their was concern among the committee
over whether the tone of the show was getting "too gay",
so another "episodic storyline twist" fell through the cracks.

(The story about travel could be true also, but the committee
didn't know where they wanted to go with GGW as of Monday,
so if Test and Stacy really did "screw up" they just saved the
committee the trouble of making up some lame excuse.)

On my earlier proposal to rebook the Austin vs Eric angle,
JDW pointed out that I was starting a week too early and
having Austin return the week before sweeps, so combine
weeks three and four and move weeks one and two back
to make it a four week build to No Way Out instead of five.

As for the ratings, I doubt RAW will pull a 2.9, so choosing
that as your tap out point was a safe bet. But you can't
compare February to November because February usually
does much better based on the absence of MNF and the
build up toward Mania. It's always been sweeps so the
competition has always tough. Take a look at these numbers.

FEB 1998 - 3.3
NOV 1998 - 5.1

FEB 1999 - 5.9
NOV 1999 - 5.9

FEB 2000 - 5.8
NOV 2000 - 5.0

FEB 2001 - 4.9
NOV 2001 - 4.3

FEB 2002 - 4.6
NOV 2002 - 3.4

FEB 2003 - 3.7

The WWE was in free fall in 2000 and 2001, so they didn't get
a bump off the February ratings because of no MNF. In 2002
they did enjoy a slight bump and this year they are again
enjoying a slight bump. I'm suggesting that slight bump could
have been much higher if Austin had returned to TV sooner.

They still could have sold the PPV as Austin's first _match_
since his return which is what will basically be selling it anyway.

Also you'll note how severe the ratings crater has gotten this year.
If the WWE experiences the same levels of seasonal attrition that
they did in 2000, 2001, and 2002, RAW may be drawing below
a 3.0 rating come November 2003. Sure, it will still be a decent
rating for RAW compared to the mid-nineties, but they will have to
get buy on a much smaller budget because ad revenue will shrink.

Frank

(If I hated Vince or the WWE I'd try to convince everyone that
everything was fine while Vince drove the ship onto the rocks.)
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#52 Posted on
But you can't compare February to November because February usually does much better based on the absence of MNF and the
build up toward Mania.


Actually, the numbers you post somewhat contradict that statement. Going from Nov. to the next Feb (which is a much more honest comparison than say Feb. 2000 and Nov. 2000) we see the following movement:

From Nov 1998 to Feb 1999: + 0.8
From Nov 1999 to Feb 2000: - 0.1
From Nov 2000 to Feb 2001: - 0.1
From Nov 2001 to Feb 2002: + 0.3
From Nov 2002 to Feb 2003: + 0.3

So really outside of the 1998-1999 movement, the change is fairly negligible. And considering that the Feb 1999 number was at the peak of casual fan interest, I think it's safe to say that sort of movement is an aberration which could not be duplicated no matter who WWE brought into the company.

Right now the best thing WWE can do is focus on cash they know they are going to get, and that is PPV revenue. Attempting to goose the ratings at the expense of that is not likely to have any sort of long-term effect and may not even work in the short-term.

I will agree with you however on your point about house shows. Steve Austin should have been at every Raw since No Way Out, and appeared after the show went off the air each time. They may have killed Columbus by not delivering him at all last night, which is just not good business.



The Most Bitter Place On The Net.

The current artist tickling my fancy: Brenda Weiler


Immortality
Ringmistress
Lap cheong








Since: 15.1.02
From: Philly

Since last post: 2734 days
Last activity: 2733 days
#53 Posted on
Numbers aside, there was one other thing that stood out for me on RAW... RANDY ORTON SPOKE A FULL SENTENCE!!! A FUNNY ONE!!!! Why can't RANDY be the new most electrifying man in sports entertainment???

Ringmistress



Proper planning prevents piss poor performance"
William Regal

Learn it and live it, Vinnie Mac!
Punkinhed
Salami








Since: 23.1.02

Since last post: 4308 days
Last activity: 4283 days
#54 Posted on


When Bichoff was prancing around and doing the "Karate kid" stuff, did anyone else besides hope beyond hope for the sudden and unexpected return of Steve Blackman, just for the hell of it? No, it wouldn't have made sense, but so what?



Triple H is a dead ringer for "Buzzer" of the Dreadnoks. Just give him some mirror shades and teach him to say "Blimey, Zartan".
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

Since last post: 29 days
Last activity: 1 day
AIM:  
#55 Posted on
I just wanted to add two things about the "sweeps period".

1. Sweeps Ratings are a joke. Yes, networks still act like they are important and pull out big specials and premiers (the Michael Jackson interview and the Debut of Survivor: Amazon to name two), but it's been a while since ad execs have used those numbers to honestly compile data about how much an ad in a timeslot is worth. It's much more about longterm ratings trends and demographics than it is about what the "highest rating" for the show is (which of course, throws off the average). If a show/network that normally does a 6.0 in a timeslot hits say 8.0 in sweeps, that no longer means that future projections will be offset by that (ad people aren't stupid).

2. Cable sweeps means even less. That's not to say that it's not still important, but it's much less important than long term ratings goals (which should be the WWE's focus right now).

And as for a buyrate bump for Steve's first "wrestling match". That's still to come. Don't tell me that you're going to call Austin/Bischoff a "wrestling match". It'll be a fun little diversion for Steve to come out and throw some Stunners around, but I'd be surprised if it was anything more than that.




RAW Satire 2/17
Buffy 7.14 gets a 7.10 WAY better than last week, and I like the Principal Wood character alot.
Gavintzu
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Calgary ... Alberta Canada

Since last post: 2926 days
Last activity: 2926 days
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Thanks for the great info, Boston Idol. tOA would rule if not for the hopeless cynicism and general negativity.

So let's look at the pattern for Raw's ratings. Caught fire in early '98, steady rise until they plateaued at around 6 million viewers at sweeps time. They held this level for a full year or a year-and-a-half, then dipped to around 5 million pairs of eyes for half-a-year. Then the bottom fell out in early '01.


    The WWE was in free fall in 2000 and 2001, so they didn't get a bump off the February ratings because of no MNF. In 2002 they did enjoy a slight bump and this year they are again enjoying a slight bump.


I think the "free fall" of 2000 was inevitable ... the WWF was the "cooler talk" show in 1999, and the WWF had lots of viewers who watched just because their friends and coworkers watched and talked about it on Tuesday mornings. Those types of viewers are fickle and were bound to stop watching after a short time, and no way would they plonk down $30 for a PPV. The only way they would go to a houseshow is if friends dragged them to it. They only contributed to one leg of your three sources of income.

2001-02 is a different story. The drop then can be attributed directly to bad television shows, bad booking and the constant hitting of the reset button. RESET: Austin's a heel. RESET: WCW invades and gets their asses kicked. RESET: Ric Flair is the coowner of the company and Austin is a face again. RESET: nWo invades. RESET: Brand extension. RESET: Flair's not an owner and we have two GMs.

No wonder they lost another 1.5 million viewers.

There is one glimmer of hope for the WWE though ... the spikes you talk about bringing the ratings above 4.0. I think there are lots of viewers who want to enjoy Raw, who keep coming back, but who leave again after the excitement of whatever flavour of the month being promoted sputters out.


    ... television is a revenue source rather than a loss leader and ... hot live shows bring in money and fuel both ratings and buyrates by making the product seem like
    one of the hottest forms of entertainment.


Exactly. If the WWE can create some consistantly good TV shows, which will get some hot crowds for their TV tapings, PPV buys and houseshow attendance would improve and the ratings would bounce back up to the 4.5 or 5.0 levels.

Great set of posts, Boston Idol. Welcome to Wienerville. Hope you like hot dogs.

Edit: p.s. I can't wait for you to take part in our Smackdown discussions. My "Heyman rules" posts will double
now that you are posting here.


(edited by Gavintzu on 18.2.03 1343)


If it's true a rich man leads a sad life
(that's what they say, from day to day),
Then what do all the poor do with their lives
On Judgement Day -- with nothing to say?

------------------------------------------------
Joe Strummer Lives!
Boston Idol
Blutwurst








Since: 17.2.03
From: San Jose, CA

Since last post: 2928 days
Last activity: 2721 days
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
I started graphing head-to-head cumulative ratings for RAW and Nitro
a few years ago to try to understand the rising popularity of pro wrestling
and to show independant of brand when the pro wrestling "fad" peaked
and began to decline. At that time many WWF fans claimed that the
drop in popularity was being caused entirely by WCW (which was true
to a certain extent) and that the WWF wouldn't be affected (Whoops!)

As part of the study I noticed what appeared to be a seasonal pattern
that affected overall growth. The "cum" (get your minds out of the
gutter and think SCIENCE) line is basically shaped like a hump as
the popularity of pro wrestling rises, peaks, and then falls, but when
you look at the contours of the hump (don't make me say SCIENCE
again) we can see the seasons impacting on the larger trend.

Here is the graph, if I've gotten the code right:



Note the fairly steady increase in the popularity of pro wrestling in
1997 (green line) as a surge by the WWF (red line) made up for
stagnation by WCW (blue line) in the last half of the year. No
apparent season trend, merely steady growth.

But look what happened at the beginning on 1998. Both brands
went up and as a result the overall popularity of pro wrestling
soared, gaining as much ground as it had in four quarters in 1997.
Ratings continued to increase coming out of Mania as viewers
brought in by the showcase event hung around, but then ratings
levelled off for the rest of the year with RAW falling slightly as
WCW increased slightly in Q3 (July-August) before the WWF
began to pull away and leave WCW in the dirt.

First quarter of 1999, again both brands saw increases in ratings,
and this is during the head to head hours only, so less competitive
scheduling plays no part in the data. More fans are watching pro
wrestling in the first quarter, even Nitro! Then in Q2 Nitro began
to tank sharply. Raw ratings increased again as they did in every
year from 1997 to 2000 coming out of Wrestlemania, but that
increase was not enough to offset Nitro losses. For the first time
there was evidence that more fans were abandoning pro wrestling
than discovering it. Then in Q3 WWF ratings softened just as they
had in Q3 of 1998 and would again in Q3 of 2000.

The WWF experienced a minor surge in Q1 and Q2 of 2000 which
I identified as a seasonal bump masking the continuing erosion
of pro wrestling fans from the entire industry, regardless of brand.
Sure enough, in Q3 and Q4 of 2000 the WWF ratings during the
head-to-head hours tanked with only a minor uptick from WCW in
Q3 arguing against the mass exodus of pro wrestling fans.

If you average the cum "delta" (change) from quarter to quarter, you
will discover that there are strong seasonal trends in pro wrestling.
The industry or a particular brand can overcome or underperform
relative to those trends, but the trends are there over time or at
least they have been there throughout this boom. At some point
as ratings fall they go below the level of "casual" fans who might
be more likely to watch MNF, though the seasonal pull of Mania,
increasing ratings during the runup and holding more viewers in
the three months that follow will always be a factor.

Frank

Q4 to Q1 = + 0.50
Q1 to Q2 = + 0.25
Q2 to Q3 = - 0.10
Q3 to Q4 = - 0.35

{ EDIT : Shrunk the graphic to fit the table - CRZ }

(edited by CRZ on 19.2.03 0403)
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 2033 days
Last activity: 734 days
#58 Posted on

    Originally posted by TheMarketingMajor
    Exploding concrete blocks infuriate me. They are among the few business exposing items that really piss me off. I know it's a small thing but I had to speak on the matter. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I just don't want to think about it anymore.


i agree on the most part, but i thought that the exploding concrete block last night was actually not a bad idea. it's one thing when hall throws a block at austin's knee and the block breaks over it, but it's another when someone who they're trying to sell the "karate abilities" of kicks a block and it breaks. i actually thought that it gave bischoff's karate kicks at least a smidgen of legitimacy, which they didn't have before it.
Dexley's Midnight Jogger
Pepperoni
Moderator








Since: 10.10.02
From: New Hampshire

Since last post: 322 days
Last activity: 236 days
#59 Posted on
I did think it was funny when he told Morley to brace himself and not fly out of the ring when Bischoff kicked the board.



Where are you, Bunkhouse Buck?
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3808 days
Last activity: 3277 days
AIM:  
#60 Posted on

    Originally posted by sentonBOMB

      Originally posted by TheMarketingMajor
      Exploding concrete blocks infuriate me. They are among the few business exposing items that really piss me off. I know it's a small thing but I had to speak on the matter. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I just don't want to think about it anymore.


    i agree on the most part, but i thought that the exploding concrete block last night was actually not a bad idea. it's one thing when hall throws a block at austin's knee and the block breaks over it, but it's another when someone who they're trying to sell the "karate abilities" of kicks a block and it breaks. i actually thought that it gave bischoff's karate kicks at least a smidgen of legitimacy, which they didn't have before it.



The whole thing was so badly-done, though. The boards were rather obviously cut, as was the watermelon, and the cement block was just flat-out pointless. I mean, I've seen too many science teachers have them broken on them by sledgehammers while laying on a bed of nails to really believe for a second that even if it WERE a real block that JR would come out with anything more than a lot of dust in his hair.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka: HE raised the briefcase!
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I've found WWE does this sometimes when coming up with new music for their wrestlers. For example, when RVD first came to WWE, he had pretty much the same music he has now, but without the lyrics.
- MonteCarl, HHH's old music (2004)
Related threads: Hennig Tribute - RAW Is Vince (2/10) - COUNT DOWN ON RAW - More...
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