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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW August 25th Thoughts Thread (Page 2)
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sayain zubas
Weisswurst








Since: 9.8.03
From: michigan

Since last post: 3846 days
Last activity: 3807 days
AIM:  
#21 Posted on
teh words of teh zubman....alright, 2 flames to do first from quessy "Hopefully Smackdown can give us something better. If their smart they'll take my earlier advice of giving Eddie a title shot in his hometown this week." ohkay, lets give him teh midcard and top tile, so we cqan have even LESS half decent matches and more....mcmanomania*shivers*....and from venom "At first I thought all the evil-Coach stuff was cute and funny on the board today because it was so irrevrant and silly, but if they're actually pushing a fucking announcer and giving him a character make-over thinking it will benefit business in any way..." i think its actually a nice idea, better than whuts come out of there asses- i mean mouths fer teh past year, so whut, hes not a wrestler, ohkay, but it brings some bam into this nowadays bland show, so i say they should stick with it fer at least a couple more weeks......and this thing with goldberg, id think it would be pretty funny if this is just a real big way to fire his ass, id crack up fer weeks, and then probally boycott teh WWE (or anythign to do with trippy, at least)

(edited by sayain zubas on 25.8.03 1755)


line of teh month: jr refering to teh coach, about his heel "turn" at summerslam "i didnt see anything wrong with teh kid" jerry lawler "u didnt have to work with him for weeks on end"
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#22 Posted on
I haven't seen the show yet because well..it hasn't aired in Europe but what I gathered from reports is this:

- Last week they had a segment with Linda and Eric and people said it was lame because where was security, and why doesn't she fire him, etc.
* This week Linda says that security showed up right after and she cannot fire him.

- Last week Lance Storm went into the women's lockerroom yet we didn't see what happened there.
* This week Storm and Goldust talk about what happened, bring in the midget Goldust has been talking about AND it is Mini-Dust who has humped people before.

- Also, weeks ago people nagged that Coach was shoved aside again the moment JR returns and noted that they should do something with that.
* They did, and Coach indicated that JR is only there because he is Austin's boy.

So basically answers that people have been screaming for in past weeks have been given. And yet nobody seems willing to wait to see what happens with Kane next week.
What if he isn't there due to injuries, even though footage reveals he got out of the dumpster almost right away?
And they sell that for a few weeks
What if they put him in a full bodysuit to "hide" burns and take the time to give him a good make up job now?
What if..what if..what if..there are so many things one could say that can make something interesting still out of this burning, yet instead of waiting we have to yell that Kane is dead and nothing good can come from this (just like taking his mask would be the worst move ever)



*sigh* Why bother?
Greymarch
Boerewors








Since: 24.2.03
From: Toronto, Canada

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 9 hours
#23 Posted on
It's almost as if a month ago or so, someone took a look at RAW and said, "Hmmm... not enough MacMahon's."

Kane desperatley needs to start destroying people again. Hopefully if he comes out of this unscathed by the flames he can use his "supernatural powers" to start being more than just another hoss.



"Boy, I've crippled more people than Polio!"
drjayphd
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 22.4.02
From: Long Island

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 2 days
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Y!:
#24 Posted on

    Originally posted by FurryHippie
    I'll be the first to point out this odd tidbit - under Shane's jersey he was wearing a Highlight Reel shirt (what the?) You can see it when he's knocked out on the outside after Jericho's springboard kick and when he goes backstage after Kane. I wonder why he would bother wearing his opponent's shirt under the jersey when there's so many other shirts to wear that won't be confusing if exposed.


Shane used to wear his opponent's shirts (only tweakified to insult them)... maybe this was the same case?

And what I saw wasn't painfully bad, but it wasn't much after the Rosey murderdeathkilling of Air Gun Guy. Take that for what you will.



Today's Out-Of-Context Quote, Courtesy of hardygrrl:

"...between the grime layer and the Seventies game show host hair, I'd rather rim Undertaker after a White Castle/Schlitz bender."
Venom
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.03

Since last post: 2605 days
Last activity: 2575 days
#25 Posted on

    Originally posted by dMp
    I haven't seen the show yet because well..it hasn't aired in Europe but what I gathered from reports is this:

    - Last week they had a segment with Linda and Eric and people said it was lame because where was security, and why doesn't she fire him, etc.
    * This week Linda says that security showed up right after and she cannot fire him.

    - Last week Lance Storm went into the women's lockerroom yet we didn't see what happened there.
    * This week Storm and Goldust talk about what happened, bring in the midget Goldust has been talking about AND it is Mini-Dust who has humped people before.

    - Also, weeks ago people nagged that Coach was shoved aside again the moment JR returns and noted that they should do something with that.
    * They did, and Coach indicated that JR is only there because he is Austin's boy.

    So basically answers that people have been screaming for in past weeks have been given. And yet nobody seems willing to wait to see what happens with Kane next week.
    What if he isn't there due to injuries, even though footage reveals he got out of the dumpster almost right away?
    And they sell that for a few weeks
    What if they put him in a full bodysuit to "hide" burns and take the time to give him a good make up job now?
    What if..what if..what if..there are so many things one could say that can make something interesting still out of this burning, yet instead of waiting we have to yell that Kane is dead and nothing good can come from this (just like taking his mask would be the worst move ever)



1) I never said those things, so I guess my criticism is imune to your counter-criticism.

2) I waited a good month and half before I said anything about the Kane storyline a few weeks ago, and this is probably only the 2nd or 3rd time I've commented on it.

3) Why is the biggest defense of the WWE nowadays "wait and see?" I mean, really: "Wait and see about Triple H's title reign. Wait and see about Kane and Shane. Wait and see about Linda and Eric. Wait and see about Nash and Jericho. Wait and see about Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton." I've been "waiting to see" for months now and haven't gotten jackshit from the RAW side of things except for a handful of okay-good matches.

4) Should you really be critiquing the show and criticizing us for it if you didn't see it yet? Just an observation, not a criticism (.............or IS IT?!)




"Shut up, dumbass"
Nate The Snake
Liverwurst








Since: 9.1.02
From: Wichita, Ks

Since last post: 3748 days
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#26 Posted on

    Originally posted by fuelinjected
    It was pretty much implied when you said Kane's inhuman and he could survive it. So he can survive being thrown into a dumpster of fire for at least a minute but not wrestling offense?


You'd be amazed at who could survive being tossed into what was, storyline-wise, a pile of burning garbage. It would've hurt like fuck and he should have some burns, but everyone saying Kane should be DEAD is really, really reaching for something to bitch about. If Kane was unconscious when he went in, so he just laid there in the smoke for a long time? Yeah, he'd be dead. As it is, once the pain hit sheer instinct would have propelled his big ass out of that dumpster faster than a WCW cruiserweight match on crystal meth.

If Kane comes out next week completely fine THEN you have reason to bitch. But for all we know, Kane'll be "in the hospital" selling his burns. There was more than enough bad about Raw, there's no need to whine about something that hasn't happened yet.



Kansas-born and deeply ashamed
The last living La Parka Marka

"They that can give up essential liberty to gain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
My big problem with the end of RAW wasn't necessarily Kane being thrown into the pit of fire, since Kane's character has been through enough goofy shit like this in the past.

My problem was the ultra-lame close-up on Shane saying 'Burn in hell, you sonuva bitch' like it's the end of a Steven Seagal movie or something.



"When this bogus term alternative rock was being thrown at every '70s retro rehash folk group, we were challenging people to new sonic ideas. If some little snotty anarchist with an Apple Mac and an attitude thinks he invented dance music and the big rock group is coming into his territory, [that's] ridiculous." - Bono, 1997
Amazing Telephone
Salami








Since: 12.12.02
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba

Since last post: 269 days
Last activity: 2 days
#28 Posted on
If I had asked you -- seriously, now -- a year ago, if I had asked you "who are going to be the most entertaining people on RAW each week a year from now?", what would your answer have been?

Jericho, obviously, would have been a pretty safe bet. And likewise Christian would have been an easy pick, although it still seems as though they could be doing a lot more with him.

But damn, man, would anybody here have guessed Jonathan Coachman? Or Rosie?

That's what motivates us to still watch, I think; we're all waiting to see who's going to surprise us next. I mean, I can't speak for everybody, but I for one am beginning to think that's the only reason I have left. You seriously just never know who'll be the next to pull out something really cool and make you say to yourself, "self, I'm actually glad I got to watch that". And it's almost completely unpredictable, too, which is a major part of its appeal.
dMp
Banger








Since: 4.1.02
From: The Hague, Netherlands (Europe)

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 3 hours
#29 Posted on

>my stuff snipped<

    Originally posted by Venom
    I never said those things, so I guess my criticism is imune to your counter-criticism.

    2) I waited a good month and half before I said anything about the Kane storyline a few weeks ago, and this is probably only the 2nd or 3rd time I've commented on it.

    3) Why is the biggest defense of the WWE nowadays "wait and see?" I mean, really: "Wait and see about Triple H's title reign. Wait and see about Kane and Shane. Wait and see about Linda and Eric. Wait and see about Nash and Jericho. Wait and see about Shawn Michaels and Randy Orton." I've been "waiting to see" for months now and haven't gotten jackshit from the RAW side of things except for a handful of okay-good matches.

    4) Should you really be critiquing the show and criticizing us for it if you didn't see it yet? Just an observation, not a criticism (.............or IS IT?!)


Sorry Venom, but I don't recall directing my comments towards you. It was just a general observation. Cannot help it if you felt attacked by my comments

And yes I think I can give comments about events without seeing them. I mostly pointed out things from the past (that I have seen) and their follow ups.
From that I come to the conclusion that their is no need to crucify this weeks ending of Raw yet, as they usually DO have a follow up. Now if I had been saying this show sucked (or ruled for that matter) and stuff like that you could have gotten me on that, as I would have no idea why if it did so. I never said anything like that though)

As for waiting and seeing. I cannot help you feel different than I do. In my opinion the best angles and events take some time to develop and deserve some build. I assume you will agree with me on that part. In my opinion in most cases they do a decent or good job. Could they do better? Ofcourse. But I cannot tell yet if they failed with this part of the story or not, if throwing Kane in the fire is a good thing or not, etc. THAT was my whole point.
I can imagine that a bunch of people will be intruiged(sp?) and wonder what will happen next and thus tune in next week.
Isn't that was this is all about and WWE wants to happen?

Edit: typos

(edited by dMp on 26.8.03 0945)

(edited by CRZ on 26.8.03 0230)

*sigh* Why bother?
Venom
Boudin rouge








Since: 15.1.03

Since last post: 2605 days
Last activity: 2575 days
#30 Posted on
dMp>

Didn't feel attacked or anything, just felt the need before I addressed your points to say that I had not infact said those things which seemed to be a general accusation to the board (specifically people such as myself who criticised this show.)

Apparently, you are much more patient man than I, because I am getting increasingly frustrated with the WWE's shortsighted booking and asinine planning. If the last 2 years of programming hadn't been such overall shit (with a few brightspots here and there), then I actually WOULD cut them some slack with this weeks episode of Firemarshall Kane. As it is, they haven't actually impressed me with any well-written plots lately so I'm far more pessimistic in these respects. You say they could do better, I say they can't do any worse. Pushing pseudo-wrestlers and people barely qualified to be characters on TV in the same way you might push a next-generation superstar is totally counter-productive to building for the future. Think about it; the bookers took TIME to write Jonathan Coachman's heel turn and make him a new character as well as create a fued between him and JR/King, but didn't have the time to see that Cena or TWGTT had a spot on the 2nd biggest PPV of the year?

As for the "commenting on the show" it WAS only an observation (HAHA! MY MYSTERIOUS MESSAGE UNVEILED!). I was just a little dubious as to whether salient points could be made from reading an internet recap, which tend to be biased towards an author's perspective. But that's just me.




"Shut up, dumbass"
HomerJFong
Ten Millionth Hit








Since: 19.3.02
From: Ontario, Canada

Since last post: 2674 days
Last activity: 1500 days
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#31 Posted on
For some reason, the "paper champion" reference during Triple H's opening segment annoyed me more than it should have. The women's match made me happy that I didn't turn off the show, but everything from there on in, ugh. I made it through Chris Jericho interviewing for two, but HBK's appearance was all I could take. It looks like I missed nothing, at least nothing that wouldn't have left me shaking my head.

At least there wasn't any more Test/Stacy/Steiner nonsense.



Professional Wrestling Stars vs. Nigerian 419 Scammers
SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY! At this WEBSITE! WEBSITE! WEBSITE!
emma
Cherries > Peaches








Since: 1.8.02
From: Phoenix-ish

Since last post: 36 days
Last activity: 1 day
#32 Posted on
Dear Raw Sound Mixing Guy,
I'm sorry to have been such a nuisance tonight. It isn't like I went to the show intending to be for almost all of the heels all night -- it just worked out that way. Sorry that you had to keep turning down the mics in our section, just because of li'l ol' me.
-- emma

In a lot of ways, this show demonstrated what an excellent job WWE shows do of entertaining the live crowd, regardless. I definitely left under-HHH'd & not feeling like I'd seen a lot of wrestling, but I also definitely felt like I'd been entertained.

Dark matches

Navajo Warrior def. Jeff ?Bell? (He's got a whacking huge Iron Cross tattoo covering his entire back. Anybody?): we've seen Navajo Warrior locally before, & he got some pretty good face recognition.

Scott Steiner def. Mike ?Dutz?: This was one of those where the veteran works very stiff with the newbie. What's interesting? The start time for the event, as printed on the tickets, was 5:30. That didn't sound right, so I got there earlier. Indeed, we started at 5:15. Steiner has slid so far that, not only is he working dark matches, he's on before the published start time for the show! (Poor doe-eyed Scotty.)

Heat
(Ah, what to do about Heat spoilers? Punt.)

Stevie Richards & Victoria vs. Ivory & Tommy Dreamer:
Excellent fun!

Test with Stacy vs. Dirk ?Nighter??:
Test wielding his leverage over Stacy. Not too bad by the jobber.

Rico with Jackie G vs/ Val Venis:
I like Rico & I like Val, & this was fun.

Spoiler Below: Highlight text to read

Stevie & Victoria def. Ivory & Tommy. Everybody involved was great, & we were into it! Only by the greatest of flukes did S&V pull out the win. And Stevie's now got a pink bow in his hair!

Test squashes jobber. However, jobber gets one really swank counter to Test's powerbomb setup. Test having Stacy hold the ropes for him, then trying to make her watch his "climb through the ropes" entrance was hilarious.

Val def. Rico. Fun, fun stuff throughout.


Lillian gets about halfway through the national anthem, when the La Res theme hits. Lillian leads us in a "USA" chant. This is interrupted by the all-American Boomer Sooner song for JR's entrance. Lillian may have been the most over personality all night -- she was all over the place!

In the cheapest force of face pop ever, we're led to believe that we're about to do our Crazy Go Nuts (TM) pyro opening. So we're going nuts, & instead we get Goldberg.

Trish vs. Gail Kim was excellent live -- better than it looked on TV. We were kinda disappointed that Molly didn't turn all tweenish on Gail right there in the ring.

I've worked out at some "serious" gyms, & I've seen some scary-big dudes. I feel qualified to report that Mark Henry is fucking huge. Credit to Jindrak for going out there, & getting squashed that solidly. (If Jindrak isn't damaged, maybe Mark's developed some skills.)

Lance's expressions & (no)selling in his segment were great.

We thought that young Roosevelt impetuously squashing the T-shirt guy was very funny. (Maybe because we didn't have to sit through the intervening commercial expecting it. Maybe because people were giddy oevr cheap T-shirts.) Lawler stole Hurricane's line about "There's more training to do."

Did y'all get to see the "RIP Mr. Snuggalot" sign? :-)

Being there, Conway's promo was good heelishness. Don't know why it didn't translate well to TV, but it sure didn't. We definitely were objecting to him much more loudly than it seemed. (Poor, overworked sound mixer.)

The whole crew of little roadie elves hauling out first the Highlight Reel carpet, then the presentation red carpet were
fun. They need some cartoon music of their very own.

Too many McMahons -- too much talking. And we couldn't even see them around the fabulous, obscenely expensive Jeritron 5000.

Orton vs. Maven with Flair & Michaels was fun. We do love our Shawn Michaels!

Christian was fabulous. Austin shoo-ing him out of the way so Steve could hit his corner poses. "Excuse me, Intercontinental Champion over here." Then during the match, Christian was doing a stellar job of both selling for & protecting Lawler. (Not that I ever want to see Lawler wrestle!) And those were some orange-orange pants the boy had on. How can you not be a Peep? (Sorry sound guy.) All that, & they'd screwed up his entrance music.

We were confused during the Shane/Y2J match. There was the Kane pyro with no Kane, that Jericho used to his advantage. You went to commercial. We knew that we were in commercial. But Chris & Shane sorta continued, but at a slow-down pace, with lots of posing. We never did know when we got back from commercial. Then when Kane's intro hit again, we didn't know if we were going for Take 2, or what. When Kane did his hit-&-run, we weren't sure if he was even supposed to be there. Finally, by the time Shane was following him outside, we figured we were back to real-time, but by then we were just watching the TitanTron.

They'd apparently filmed the fire segment earlier in the day. Coming in from the parking lot, they had tons of arena security trying to keep everybody away from the outside staging area. Everybody knew something was up, but nobody knew what.

After the big film segment, we got about 20 minutes of after-show. Austin & Jericho, just being entertaining as could be. Always send the crowd home grinning.

Not a great wrestling show, but good entertainment for the live crowd.
tomvejada
Andouille








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 4073 days
Last activity: 4073 days
#33 Posted on
Opening segment was alright, but I didn't like Triple H's "paper champion" remark.

The Rosey segment was funny as well as well as Mini-Dust. That was Jessie of Tough Enough fame as the P.A.

I didn't like last night's Highlight Reel. And what's with Bischoff and Vince being pals.

But Heel Coach stole the show. His commentary during the Christian-Lawler match was hilarious.

Kane's antics after the main event saved that segment.

Overall, Raw was so-so.



"Oh my God, Brian, there's a message in my Alphabits! It says, 'Oooooo!'" Peter Griffin
"Peter, those are Cheerios." Brian
Simba
Frankfurter








Since: 7.8.02
From: Boston, MA

Since last post: 2504 days
Last activity: 2112 days
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.20
See, I thought HHH's "paper champion" line was awesome. In fact, the whole opening promo with Goldberg was excellent.

I'm with Big Bad on the whole Shane "Burn in Hell..." line at the end. It was totally ripped out of a horror movie finale.



Reserved for future use.
ThreepMe
Morcilla








Since: 15.2.02
From: Dallas

Since last post: 3701 days
Last activity: 3360 days
#35 Posted on
"Paper Champion" = Cheap Heat

Remember people, HHH is the true paper champ. It's a smattering of irony.

Get it?

Also, I hate Goldberg's retorts. He sounds like a 4th grader that has run out of come backs.

HHH - "I'm gonna kick your ass"

Bill - "No, I'm gonna kick your ass!"

HHH - "you suck!"

Bill - "no, you suck!"

That's what the whole thing felt like.

Someone get Bill a decent writer.

I dug the super cheesy ending. The one liner at the end was great!

But you know what would be great in this Kane story? Mankind. I'm talking old school Mankind, not the Mr. Socko Mankind. (even though I love Mr. Socko Mankind)Too bad Foley is too banged up.

(edited by ThreepMe on 26.8.03 0635)


I would like to congatulate Al Snow on his contact with La-Z-Boy. Because we all know Al doesn't sell chairs. - Mick Foley




Make sure to check out ThreepMe's Website of Fun
knightvibe
Salami








Since: 12.7.03
From: st louis, missouri

Since last post: 3572 days
Last activity: 3571 days
#36 Posted on
well RAW wasn't the best show from top to bottom last night but it was a solid effort I thought.
It started great with the Triple H - Goldberg segment.
It ended great with the KANE being knocked off into the burning dumpster.
Who doesn't wonder what will happen next week. My roomate hates wrestling but loved that segment and told me this morning he can't wait too see what happnes next week.
The segment was a well done stunt that should get people talking. The JR burning was a not so well done stunt that got people taling, but this looked real on TV.
If you look at the RAW ratings since the KANE angle began they have really taken off. They were around 3.5-3.7 and now the have been in the 4.0-4.3 area. WWE has got something with KANE and they pulled last night off well. It should be a high rated show coming off of SummerSlam. It set the stage for Triple H vs Goldberg. It furthered Coach's character, which I must say is very fun compared to the old Coach. It set up Orton vs. Michaels well. And it ended with the most dramatic moment on RAW in a while.
Next week should carry the fans from this week well to see what became of KANE. And while I don't know where they are going with the KANE character, isn't that the sign of a good angle?
Maybe KANE will put the mask back on because now he is really burnt. Maybe they have something else planned. I don't know but I sure will tune in next week to see where they are going with this.
Overall, I was very entertained.



and thats all i have to say about that!
Torchslasher
Knackwurst








Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.44
Well, you know there's a problem when the two highlights of Raw are Jonathon Coachman and seeing Jessie from Tough Enough 3 with a clipboard.

And I hope that Shane can improve his wrestling skills if he's going to be in the semi-main of the Unforgiven PPV. His involvement in the match with Jericho last night was laughable.

That match just proved that Jericho can't pull a Flair and carry broomsticks (even rich, prone to dancing broomsticks) to four star matches...yet.



Molly, Stacy and Daffney all in WWE? I suddenly lost all my will to complain about anything regarding the WWE. Hope I don't lose my street cred for this.

TS, the greatest Wiener rated 6.1554 ever to live!! Oops, I mean 5.5...4.5?? Oh, dammit! I guess Notorious FAB was right.
Twist of Fate
Bauerwurst








Since: 2.5.03
From: Adelaide, South Aus.

Since last post: 3797 days
Last activity: 3079 days
ICQ:  
#38 Posted on
personally, i'm very happy with the Kane segment.

it showed that they are prepared to, on the odd occasion, show some of that old school theatricality they once had. it's how they used to captivate audiences in the past, and it may be the key to bringing them back.

that part at the end with Kane and Shane'O was more exciting than the rest of the last three RAWs combined. they're finally getting the build ups to PPV matches right again. now i'm hangin out to see what they have planned to top that in the coming weeks and then Unforgiven itself. it'll be great.



Twist of Fate to Swanton Bomb. never to be seen again with the departure of Jeff Hardy. :(
Bizzle Izzle
Bockwurst








Since: 26.6.02
From: New Jersey, USA

Since last post: 82 days
Last activity: 82 days
#39 Posted on
My favorite part of the Kane-Shane segment was when the crowd popped HUGE ... for the dumpster that said "City of Tucson". "It's a big bucket of shit with OUR name on it!! YAAYYYYYY!!!"


Oh, and Rob Conway must read the Wienerboard. That little rant of his sounded like half the lefties who post in the Politics forum :P

(edited by Bizzle Izzle on 26.8.03 1101)

'But if one is struck by me only a little, that is far different, the stroke is a sharp thing and suddenly lays him lifeless, and that man's wife goes with cheeks torn in lamentation, and his children are fatherless, while he, staining the soil with his red blood, rots away, and there are more birds than women swarming about him.' Diomedes, The Iliad of Homer

Maiden RULES!!!
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 15 hours
AIM:  
#40 Posted on
Raw sucked, on the whole (yes, pun intended). A bunch of crappy matches, a bunch of non-wrestlers, topped off w/ a cheesy ending.

However, 1 thing in particular bothered me - the Cade/Jindrak vs. Mack/Henry match. Raw's tag scene is a joke, but if handled correctly, Cade/Jindrak could freshen things up. Have them pick up wins on Heat (which they've been doing), and eventually move them up to Raw. Depending on their improvement and crowd reaction, possibly transition them into a feud, maybe even for the tag titles if they somehow catch fire. Instead, they squash them before they even had a chance, and for what? To get Mark Henry over? Nobody cares about Henry. They couldn't use Dreamer, Snow, Spike (did they really need a 6-man match?), or some local indy talent instead?

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 26.8.03 1116)


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Bret has been on the European tour booking sheets as an enforcer referee so he's apparently staying. the one obvious person i missed was Jose Lethario. Also, the HBK trainees: Danielson, Cade, London.
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