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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #994 6/11/12 (Page 2)
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Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 25 days
Last activity: 2 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00

After that RAW, I'm gonna find it hard to dedicate 3 hours every Monday night ...

I thought last night would've been the perfect opportunity to start airing vignettes promoting one of the soon-to-be FCW additions to the main roster. Then have them debut at RAW 1,000 ... unless I totally glossed over it while FFwding, I saw nothing.
JimBob Skeeter
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.04
Gillberg (managed by Ralphus) vs. Ryback is YOUR SummerSlam main event.

(edited by JimBob Skeeter on 12.6.12 0958)
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 145 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.67
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by geemoney

      Winner: Vader, at 3:17. Somewhere, Matt Striker is marking out.


    You meant to type "Matt Tracker," but it's understandable.


Why can't it be both?



In fairness to Lawler, they've been comparing Raw to Gunsmoke's 635-episode run since around Raw #600. But considering how much they push Twitter and Facebook, and how much they claim to be going for the teen audience, your point is entirely fair. Neither Cole or Lawler appear suited for appealing to the target demo.

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    I have a lot of problems of the logic around the main event angle. Not the "Ace only gets fired if Show loses" part, because people making immensely important decisions based solely on the outcome of a match is one of my favorite insane wrestling tropes; it's wrestling, of course everything, including the fates of billion dollar companies and the sex lives of non-employee spouses should be determined by wrestling matches. But I'm still stuck on the whole idea of the power structure in the company since the top angle is so wrapped up in that very issue.


(Yeah, I could have phrased that better) Making wrestling matches important by putting different stakes on the line isn't my issue, it's the lack-of-logic to get there. At "Over the Limit", we were told that the Board of Directors only held off on firing Ace at Cena's behest, so he could beat the hell out of him first. There was no logic given to explain why Johnny wasn't still fired after Cena lost the match. (Other than.. BECAUSE WE SAY SO, SHUT UP SMARK!)

Now after three hours (a full week, really) of hype where Vince was coming back to show Ace the door, and McMahon literally on the verge of saying those two catch-phrased words of his, when Show interrupts.. and we somehow end up with "Show wins, Ace stays". And Vince is going along with this demand(?) from the guy he just buried as overpaid, overrated and not worth anything since 1998 because??

BECAUSE WE SAY SO, SHUT UP SMARK!

All you had to do last month was make the fictional Board of Directors a little less competent, make Vince a little less clear that he's definitely firing Johnny tonight - then work a conventional angle where Ace's job ends up on the line. What annoys me is the lack of attention to detail on what has been the top angle in the company since WrestleMania.



Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.30
    Originally posted by TheOldMan
      Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
      I have a lot of problems of the logic around the main event angle. Not the "Ace only gets fired if Show loses" part, because people making immensely important decisions based solely on the outcome of a match is one of my favorite insane wrestling tropes; it's wrestling, of course everything, including the fates of billion dollar companies and the sex lives of non-employee spouses should be determined by wrestling matches. But I'm still stuck on the whole idea of the power structure in the company since the top angle is so wrapped up in that very issue.


    (Yeah, I could have phrased that better) Making wrestling matches important by putting different stakes on the line isn't my issue, it's the lack-of-logic to get there. At "Over the Limit", we were told that the Board of Directors only held off on firing Ace at Cena's behest, so he could beat the hell out of him first. There was no logic given to explain why Johnny wasn't still fired after Cena lost the match. (Other than.. BECAUSE WE SAY SO, SHUT UP SMARK!)

    Now after three hours (a full week, really) of hype where Vince was coming back to show Ace the door, and McMahon literally on the verge of saying those two catch-phrased words of his, when Show interrupts.. and we somehow end up with "Show wins, Ace stays". And Vince is going along with this demand(?) from the guy he just buried as overpaid, overrated and not worth anything since 1998 because??

    BECAUSE WE SAY SO, SHUT UP SMARK!

    All you had to do last month was make the fictional Board of Directors a little less competent, make Vince a little less clear that he's definitely firing Johnny tonight - then work a conventional angle where Ace's job ends up on the line. What annoys me is the lack of attention to detail on what has been the top angle in the company since WrestleMania.
Nah, you said it fine and I think we're on the same page, I just took a roundabout way to get there, unfortunately. The problem, at root, is that we don't know why the Board of Directors or Vince are moved to consider firing Ace every month, because they haven't bothered to consider why. You're right that we keep getting someone about to fire Ace (HHH before, Vince now) only to have them get temporarily incapacitated and then not bother to fire Ace next time they show up. We are to assume, I suppose that the Board of Directors is insane and has no vested stake in whether Ace lives or dies, and Vince was going to fire him for reasons unknown (as opposed to the reason he should presumably want to fire him: that Ace was probably part of the conspiracy that got Vince removed from power in the first place, but that brings us back to the question of why the Board empowered HHH to remove Vince, then empowered Vince to remove HHH, then empowered HHH to remove Ace but HHH forgot, then empowered Vince to remove Ace with resolution pending).

But anyway, the biggest sore spot in there is that HHH wanted Ace gone, has the power to do it and the Board of Directors has been OK for the past two months with either Vince or the Board themselves firing Ace, so there's zero reason that HHH, as COO, hasn't actually fired Ace since he first threatened to do so. Especially since he flat-out knows that Ace has conspired to get rid of him, negotiated a contract with Brock that now has them in a legal battle and then went and negotiated a potentially worse contract with Show AFTER he got them sued by Brock.

Show's motivation, as you say, is equally unfocused. Show really shouldn't care if Ace lives or dies. He's already got his ironclad deal. Ideally, Show should have knocked out Cena at the PPV (revenge for Cena not loving him enough), signed the deal with Ace, then knocked Ace out on that Raw and been sent home to collect free money for life. He should, based on what he said to Vince last night, be actively working to get Ace, HHH and Vince all willing to send him home from TV to collect his guaranteed millions with no effort by repeatedly attacking any of the three of them, right?
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
    Originally posted by superfurry
    I'm tired of seeing talented guys like Kofi being sacrificed to a waste of space like Show.


I think Big Show is one of the best promos and actors in the company right now.

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    Vince's continued obsession with being such a shitty human being re: JR, and I don't even like JR that much


"How can WWE be against bullying when that wrestler beat up that wrestler!?!" is one of the more trite memes nowatimes -- remember the days of "how can Shawn Michaels be a Christian if he kicks people?!?" -- but the B.A. Star poster in the left corner while Vince did the "impression" was so perfectly framed that it had to be intentional. Staffer's stealth protest or another part of the Vince/Dunn jerk circle circle jerk, you be the judge. They say there's no long-term storytelling in wrestling anymore, but Ross's half-elegiac, half-gloating eulogy at Vince's funeral is one of the great slow-building, continuity-based angles for longtime fans to look forward to.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    But anyway, the biggest sore spot in there is that HHH wanted Ace gone, has the power to do it and the Board of Directors has been OK for the past two months with either Vince or the Board themselves firing Ace, so there's zero reason that HHH, as COO, hasn't actually fired Ace since he first threatened to do so.


Because Triple H has been completely distracted by healing his injured arm and by the pending lawsuit filed by Brock Lesnar. This has clearly occupied 100% of his attention at work and he has no time for anything else, like watching what Big Johnny is doing every show. I imagine Triple H's days consist of rehab, muscle strengthening, insane gym and ring work to prepare for his inevitably facing Brock Lesnar in the ring, and whenever he puts the suit and tie on, it's all meetings with WWE legal counsel Jerry McDevitt and the WWE legal staff, no doubt strategizing over the daily harrassment sent to them by Paul Heyman on behalf of Brock Lesnar. And then when Hunter comes home, he has to be Superdad to his three kids and Superhusband to Steph. I'm exhausted just thinking about how busy the COO must be.



@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
JimBob Skeeter
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 16 hours
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.04
Not to mention his new job: http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/WWE_News_3/article_62325.shtml

By James Caldwell, PWTorch assistant editor


WWE has yet to made an official announcement on changes to their Talent Relations department, but WWE is indicating that Triple H has taken over. John Laurinaitis's name has been removed from WWE's list of corporate executives, which indicates he has been phased out of the Executive VP of Talent Relations position.

WWE is now listing Triple H (Paul Levesque) as "Executive Vice President, Talent and Live Events," and notes that Hunter "oversees the talent relations and talent development departments" in his corporate role.

Laurinaitis no longer the head of Talent Relations appears to be part of a re-structuring spearheaded by Triple H. Ty Bailey, the former #2 man in Talent Relations, was let go earlier this year during the initial stages of the re-structuring.

At this point, Laurinaitis appears to be mainly a TV character, but he may also retain some responsibilities in Talent Relations. Laurinaitis has begun appearing regularly on WWE house shows, including traveling with the Raw crew for an international tour in Spain last week. Laurinaitis is also now being listed on the talent roster for TV tapings.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 7 hours
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.93
Triple H's new job also mandates he continually squash Drew McIntyre during SmackDown tapings. Because Drew can't pay his dues with euros.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Parts Unknown
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Darkenwood

Since last post: 81 days
Last activity: 1 day
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
I think Ryback is starting to catch on with the fans, but those Goldberg chants are damaging. Why don't they put him only on Smackdown and control the crowd noise a bit?
And for that matter...why not also put Tensai on Smackdown to pipe in some reaction?



John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 147 days
Last activity: 147 days
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26


Did Paul Lesveque go to college? I feel like WWE corporate hires a lot of vice presidents with no actual qualifications, including John Lauranaitis and every other old timey ex-wrestler who occupied high ranking corporate positions.



@CMPunk
“@ZackRyder: @CMPunk She played me bro” I got your back.
Dionysus
Kishke








Since: 10.7.11

Since last post: 11 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by John Orquiola


    Did Paul Lesveque go to college? I feel like WWE corporate hires a lot of vice presidents with no actual qualifications, including John Lauranaitis and every other old timey ex-wrestler who occupied high ranking corporate positions.


My hunch is that its part of Shane McMahon's longterm plan to be the only one in the power structure with significant experience with running businesses and bureaucracies outside of the WWE, thus making him the clear choice to be the new CEO. I think that Shane left WWE in order to develop credentials that will make him look more attractive to shareholders later on.
Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.69
    Originally posted by dwaters
    Wonder if Lawler ever got his Domino's pizza.



Talk about throwing a sponsor under the bus. Lawler orders a pizza halfway through the show and it still isn't there by the end, 90 minutes later?? So much for that pizza tracking device.



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
It's False
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Since: 20.6.02
From: I am the Tag Team Champions!

Since last post: 5 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.56
Wait a minute, VADER came back? Ok, I can throw my hiatus aside for 5 minutes to check this out:



Holy crap, how does Vader still look this good? He just turned 57, for cripes sake!!! I don't remember Flair looking this good when he was 57! Vader just continues to break all kinds of molds. On top of being a 400+ pound guy that can moonsault with the greatest of ease, how many 400+ pound guys does anyone know about to enter their 60's?

Gotta love that Vader shows up for one night and is instantly more over than 75% of the roster.

(edited by It's False on 12.6.12 1336)


"This is DIET Double Dew, Kyle! It only has half the caffeine and sugar of Double Dew!"
KJames199
Scrapple
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.55
    Originally posted by It's False
    Holy crap, how does Vader still look this good? He just turned 57, for cripes sake!!!
It helps that he looked 57 back when he was 25.

(edited by KJames199 on 12.6.12 1440)
TheOldMan
Landjager








Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

Since last post: 145 days
Last activity: 6 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.67
    Originally posted by Dionysus
      Originally posted by John Orquiola


      Did Paul Lesveque go to college? I feel like WWE corporate hires a lot of vice presidents with no actual qualifications, including John Lauranaitis and every other old timey ex-wrestler who occupied high ranking corporate positions.


    My hunch is that its part of Shane McMahon's longterm plan to be the only one in the power structure with significant experience with running businesses and bureaucracies outside of the WWE, thus making him the clear choice to be the new CEO. I think that Shane left WWE in order to develop credentials that will make him look more attractive to shareholders later on.


Sounds like a hell of a storyline.. that they would screw up inside of three weeks, like all the others that set the internet on fire. But depending on how the corporation is structured, it's not inconceivable.

I'm pretty sure I remember that they split the McMahon family holdings equally, but kept controlling interest in the family. For example, if it's McMahons owning 60%, Stockholders (Marks) 40% - It could be Shane owns 15% of the company. If he hits it big with his outside business, and gets some money men behind him.. 15% + 40% = enough to launch a hostile takeover bid.

But that's more the plot of "The Secret to My Success" than reality, plus I want to say that I remember hearing that Shane sold off some of his stock (it would have had to be to someone in the family, I'm sure) when he left WWE.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Originally posted by Dr Unlikely
    That Vader segment was kind of heartwarming. I was genuinely nervous everytime he got up off the mat because of his storied history of knee injuries and replacement, but that was such a great potential final showing for Vader, especially in light of his infamous last appearance and how misused he was in general in the comapny. Man, you could really see how much he appreciated the crowd response, and the Vader Bomb was, without qualifiers, amazing. I don't know that they can do anything else with him (unless his kid is further along than I assume), but that was such a nice segment that I don't really care either way.




That's one happy human.



JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 6 days
Last activity: 14 hours
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.75
GUYS FOR REAL HOW DID VINCE McMAHON WALK AROUND AS BOSS, the board took away everything but a nominal title and a parking spot or some such shit. To quote Kitty Sanchez, he doesn't have the hiring and firing powers.



I'd say it's more that they take the wrestling jobs that have always been done by old-timey ex-wrestlers and then start retitling them as high-ranking corporate positions. "Producers."
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 510 days
Last activity: 510 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.59
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    GUYS FOR REAL HOW DID VINCE McMAHON WALK AROUND AS BOSS, the board took away everything but a nominal title and a parking spot or some such shit. To quote Kitty Sanchez, he doesn't have the hiring and firing powers.



    I'd say it's more that they take the wrestling jobs that have always been done by old-timey ex-wrestlers and then start retitling them as high-ranking corporate positions. "Producers."




He really needs to run credits at the end of the show like legendary executive producer Virgil Runnels would on World Championship Wrestling.

(edited by redsoxnation on 12.6.12 2239)
CRZ
Big Brother
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Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 1 day
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    GUYS FOR REAL HOW DID VINCE McMAHON WALK AROUND AS BOSS, the board took away everything but a nominal title and a parking spot or some such shit. To quote Kitty Sanchez, he doesn't have the hiring and firing powers.
He hasn't hired or fired a single person yet!



GodEatGod
Boudin rouge








Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
The best explanation I can think of (i.e. the one I use to keep my head exploding from continuity) is that, while Vince doesn't have his day to day powers anymore, in story, the Board assigned him the specific task of evaluating Johnny, because Vince is the most experienced, qualified person to make that assessment. Plus, since said assessment would be done on RAW itself and Vince is an experienced performer and much more comfortable in front of a crowd than anyone else in the corporate structure outside of HHH (who's tied up with the Brock Lesnar situation), he could provide that performance evaluation and entertain the fans at the same time.

Or you could just argue that, whatever the story or the angle at any given time, everyone knows Vince is the boss, just like everyone knew HHH was married to Stephanie even after they "got divorced" on-screen.



"Never piss off a hawk with a blowgun" - Conan O'Brien
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

Since last post: 1 day
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
I think the board has slowly come back around to the realisation that, for all his faults and mistakes, Vince was a much better showrunner than Johnny is, even if we're never going to get that announced in storyline terms.



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I went to the television taping on Wednesday only to find out that they were doing a houseshow this week instead of the normal taping for the Saturday night show.
- Snookum, New OVW show this week (2004)
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