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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #953 8/29/11 (Page 3)
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JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.70
    Originally posted by samoflange
    The CM Punk stuff has lost a lot of it's fire, but one great promo can bring it back. Once whatever the hell is going on now is done with and the characters and story regroup from Kevin Nash's influence, it could be good again. As of now, I am not impressed.


I was still all-in on the Summer of Punk when I was 100% sure Punk would go over Nash whenever they went at it. Now, they've switched from Punk/Nash to Punk/HHH, and I'm a little more concerned with where they are going. I do like that HHH is going to finally try and shut Punk up about Stephanie comments and that instead of doing it in a schmozz at the end of Raw it will be in a match, though.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

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hansen9j
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Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by odessasteps
    One theory going around is that nash may have failed his physical for in ring competition.
It just got confirmed.
    Originally posted by WO
    The changing of the planned C.M. Punk vs. Kevin Nash to Punk vs. HHH was confirmed as due to a health issue involving Nash, as was being talked about backstage. We don't know the exact issue, only told it was something that in another era Nash would have worked the match, but the company is now more cautious and it was determined to keep Nash out of the ring until, at this point, the fall. As for explaining the television show and the way the HHH announcement was done, that's a different issue.




The Big Bossman raised the briefcase.

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Scottyflamingo
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Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
The problem with this Punk angle is that they are trying to have their cake and eat it too. Who has Punk railed against? Vince, Cena, HHH, and Stephanie.

Vince left but it had nothing to do with Punk.

Cena has praised Punk's individuality.

HHH resigned Punk and has been going against his best friend.

SOMEBODY has to go heel here or Punk just looks like a douchebag. Unfortunately, it looks like there will only be two options: Vince through Johnny Ace, or Stephanie. Either way, it isn't anything that can end in a match.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.90
I think WWE just pulled a TNA. How do you not know that he is not medically cleared to wrestle prior to SummerSlam? How do you not run those tests before you let someone on one of the biggest PPVs of the year with one of the biggest storylines of the last few years interfere in that match? That is just fucking stupid. They pulled out all the stops with Punk, actually Punk pulled out all the stops himself while WWE tried to keep up.

He advanced the storylines, he cut the promos that people wanted to hear and wrestled his ass off. Only to be rewarded by losing the belt to guy who may or may not have legit visa problems and someone who was an afterthought on the roster. Yet, the cherry on top is putting shoved into a feud with two BFFS. The one guys whose last great move was having destroyed his knee by walking in the ring and another guy who happens to control the company with a reputation of burying people to make sure he is still in control. Congratulations, Punk for all your hard work, you either job to the biggest ego in wrestling via screw job or win via screw job to further complicate a storyline already off the rails.

Scotty is right, no one wants to play the heel do not looking cool. Someone has to be the heel and minus the fans in Tulsa, people don't want it to be Punk.

(edited by lotjx on 30.8.11 1445)

(edited by lotjx on 30.8.11 1446)

The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Mayhem
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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

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#45 Posted on

Interesting (I guess) article up on WWE.com (wwe.com) about who'd be the right fit for a modern-day version of the nWo ...

I really hope they don't go this route ...
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.94
    Originally posted by hansen9j
      Originally posted by odessasteps
      One theory going around is that nash may have failed his physical for in ring competition.
    It just got confirmed.
      Originally posted by WO
      The changing of the planned C.M. Punk vs. Kevin Nash to Punk vs. HHH was confirmed as due to a health issue involving Nash, as was being talked about backstage. We don't know the exact issue, only told it was something that in another era Nash would have worked the match, but the company is now more cautious and it was determined to keep Nash out of the ring until, at this point, the fall. As for explaining the television show and the way the HHH announcement was done, that's a different issue.



That just seems really weird...

They found out he wasn't cleared to wrestle between the time the match was announced and the time the show went off the air? Is the company into TNA-level dumbness now with booking where they didn't realize they were booking a match only to hope the tv audience didn't pay attention and notice it?

Something doesn't add up.

(edited by Tribal Prophet on 30.8.11 1528)
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.93
Sincere questions: How can you be not cleared to compete and then deliver a powerbomb? Or did he tweak that leg on his one move and lose clearance?





"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
    Originally posted by hansen9j
    It just got confirmed.
      Originally posted by WO
      The changing of the planned C.M. Punk vs. Kevin Nash to Punk vs. HHH was confirmed as due to a health issue involving Nash, as was being talked about backstage.

      ...

      As for explaining the television show and the way the HHH announcement was done, that's a different issue.



It sure doesn't seem likely that Nash would flunk a physical between his promo and the end of the show when the match was switched. So yeah, that's one I don't get now, after Nash laid out the protagonist twice with no retribution coming. Maybe they can do an injury angle? [Edit: Maybe they should have done an injury angle after next week's promo exchange on Raw, followed by Hunter taking Nash's spot in the match.] (Maybe we'll see how the match would have gone tonight when Punk takes on Khali.)

There's been a lot of talk about H's role in the story - I've been approaching things from the view that Trips is NOT the antagonist here. Whether it's Steph, Johnny Ace or Vince (or all of them) behind the plot against Punk - HHH has been pretty clearly presented as a somewhat accidental COO who got tossed into the deep end, and is doing all he can to tread water. (A nice departure from the untouchable 'cerebral assassin' in-ring character.)

Qualifier: If it turns out that HHH has been in on the plot all along, then everything on air since MiTB has been as nonsensical as revealing Vince as "the higher power" back in the day.

Punk (in character) is acting like H is behind everything, largely based on Trips' reputation, combined with H's ties to the supporting characters that have been involved. But again, H is playing it as a guy trying to do his best to put on a great show - you can see his subtle, yet not TOO subtle facial reactions as every attempt to make things good are interrupted by the wrong music, by Nash getting his nose out of joint, etc.

The key is that Punk isn't buying it, he's treating H as the heel character from much the last 15 years. Unfairly (for all the audience has been shown so far). So I figured the Nash match would lead to another screw job that would keep Punk on H's case leading to this match. But now that he's moving on to fight HHH directly, I think they need to address that the 'hero' is on the wrong track.

(And all of that is storyline - I'm not touching the actual management changes behind the curtain, and if HHH and Steph are trying to push the program's focus away from the SuperCena formula of the last few years.)

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Observations from the show:

Ziggler's match, and eating that RKO off a dead cat bounce was as good as I've seen Orton look in a non-gimmick match. So is Dolph in the Jericho/Punk spot of being such a good worker that he gets pigeon-holed as the guy you feed to the guys management wants to push?

Didn't Punk and Miz cross paths in WW..ECW? Another solid match that got a disappointing response. If Punk is going to be "made", I'm not sure he should be giving that much offense away while he's getting established. Either that, or Punk's storytelling instinct is working against him - he sells so well that his opponent looks good, while Cena goes 30 minutes and looks fresh for his SuperCena moves of doom.

The announcing was fine, other than the blindingly obvious times someone told Cole to go after JR. I'm not sure even Cole knows which way his character is supposed to go anymore.

Teasing an Otunga-Lawler feud falls in the same category as the Riley promo video - what's the point if they are going to load Raw with the top stars of Thunder.. SmackDown every week? There's going to be no room for these people on Raw. And if the brand extension is going away, so are 20, 25% of the jobs. (Maybe more like 10-15% if they need bodies for two house show groups.)



(edited by TheOldMan on 30.8.11 1612)


Peter The Hegemon
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Since: 11.2.03
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.54
    Originally posted by kentish

    I can't see them doing a unification match that does NOT include Cena. I also don't see how they could do it with Rock-Cena if Rock doesn't wrestle until WM.


Not to mention that a champion vs. champion unification match at WM would cut the legs out from the Royal Rumble. And you've got Daniel Bryan's stated plan to cash in at WM, although that's much easier to work around than the other two issues.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
I'm not really sure why people think that somehow the match got changed in the middle of the show. They could've known Nash's condition going in, still announced Punk vs. Nash (since that's the direction they were going) with every intention of revealing later that Triple H would choose to face Punk, thereby standing up to him like a man, tired of all Punk's insults.



@gregmparks - live Tweeting of Raw and Impact, wrestling thoughts and other slices of life.
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62
    Originally posted by geemoney
    I'm not really sure why people think that somehow the match got changed in the middle of the show. They could've known Nash's condition going in, still announced Punk vs. Nash (since that's the direction they were going) with every intention of revealing later that Triple H would choose to face Punk, thereby standing up to him like a man, tired of all Punk's insults.

Right, we got the match most people wanted, who cares if we thought it was going to be Nash for 2 hours? Now we can debate if they should have built HHH-Punk a little longer, like maybe Survivor Series, but that might draw this out too long.




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Big Bad
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Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.46
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
      Originally posted by kentish

      I can't see them doing a unification match that does NOT include Cena. I also don't see how they could do it with Rock-Cena if Rock doesn't wrestle until WM.


    Not to mention that a champion vs. champion unification match at WM would cut the legs out from the Royal Rumble. And you've got Daniel Bryan's stated plan to cash in at WM, although that's much easier to work around than the other two issues.


They could do the world title unification match at Survivor Series at MSG. Del Rio vs. Orton is a big and relatively fresh match. I think if Cena/Rock is set in stone and won't be for the title, then Orton is the logical guy to have in the actual championship match against...Punk? Undertaker? Daniel Bryan? Rey Mysterio if he's healthy in time? Sheamus? Miz?



"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." --- Bart Giamatti, on baseball
TheOldMan
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Since: 13.2.03
From: Chicago

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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.46
I wasn't looking forward to a Nash-Punk match any more than the rest of us, but for thinking the match changed during the live show?

    Originally posted by geemoney
    I'm not really sure why people think that somehow the match got changed in the middle of the show. They could've known Nash's condition going in, still announced Punk vs. Nash (since that's the direction they were going) with every intention of revealing later that Triple H would choose to face Punk, thereby standing up to him like a man, tired of all Punk's insults.


You mean besides the two powerbombs, the dueling promos, the suckering of HHH out of the arena last week, the lack of Punk getting back at Nash physically, the announcers putting over how "Hunter probably hopes they tear each other apart", and at the very end of the show where H doesn't say he decided he wanted the match himself - but instead he says that he'd just spoke to the Board of Directors, and Punk's match would now be against Hunter instead of Nash?

Other than those, no reasons why we might have thought Punk-Nash was the match.

If they knew by even Monday afternoon that Nash couldn't go, there's better ways to transition the match to Trips - such as Punk "taking Nash out" on live SmackDown tonight to force a replacement be named. Instead, we get what looks like a panicky hot-shot angle inserted to the end of Raw.

The whole bait and switch of it - if you really think this was the booking all along - isn't this the kind of swerve-alicious, pulled-out-of-the-ass surprise that people have been crapping on Russo for doing over a decade now?

[Edit: The booking plan may have changed before the show, my point is more about how they didn't appear to adjust the show well to account for Nash being unable to go at the PPV.]

(edited by TheOldMan on 30.8.11 1807)


Super 7-Up
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Since: 26.10.10
From: Savannah, GA

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#54 Posted on
I guess I'm in the minority here. I don't particularly want to see Punk/Miz in a program together anytime soon. Their match didn't do anything for me at all, plus Miz has the potential to be quite brilliant on the mic if he's having a good night, and that could actually take heat away from Punk in a dueling promos setting. I mean, that's just assuming the WWE actually gives a shit about building up Punk as a big fan favorite.

So while I don't agree on Punk/Miz, I do agree with the sentiment here that someone needs to be the clear heel in this whole Punk/HHH/Nash scenario. The only obvious heel in the whole angle right now is Johnny Ace, and I somehow doubt he'll be making a return to the ring. Steph could also be a potential heel, but she's not a wrestler either. Nash could have been the guy, but he's not cleared to wrestle. So it's really up to HHH to become the heel, unless they get Ace/Steph to whip a new 'corporation approved' wrestler out of their ass to be their proxy. ADR after his Cena feud finishes? Dolph after he breaks away from Vickie?

Speaking of Dolph, his match with Orton was fantastic. THAT'S a program I really wouldn't mind seeing, though I fear it would be as one-sided as Orton's feud with Christian has been, just because of the way they've booked Orton lately. I will give him his due though: Randy has really stepped up his game these past few months. I love that he's been pulling out old moves he hasn't used in years during his matches (gutwrench neckbreaker, belly to belly, et al). Plus he doesn't seem to have a problem selling his opponent's offense to make his matches appear competitive.

Also - Otunga/McGillicutty vs. Jerry Lawler? I'm skeptical, but maybe, just maybe, it could help those two develop and get them over a bit more. I still maintain that they both need more seasoning (Otunga especially), but if they allowed Jerry to inject a bit of his Memphis-era realism into the angle (and they manage to find some TV time for it), it could work. Any payoff match would be dreadful unless they find a super-talented worker to be Lawler's partner (somebody give Daniel Bryan a call).
Big G
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Since: 21.8.03
From: the people who brought you Steel Magnolias....

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#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.15
No thought that Nash is up to his old tricks?
Seemingly fine when he was booked to have the upper hand and then suddenly unfit to wrestle when presumably he was booked to be beaten handily by Punk?

Or have I just been reading too many inside wrestling books?
shawnpatrick
Kishke








Since: 31.7.07
From: Leesville SC

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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.49
I personally think that Raw was too lazy to rewrite the script for Monday Raw when the found out Nash couldn't wrestle and just added the ending out of laziness.

BTW, a powerbomb is 90 percent the work of the guy who is receiving it, not the guy giving it. It's a safe move for Nash and move that even Kelly Kelly could do to Punk if Punk sells it.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
    Originally posted by TheOldMan


    You mean besides the two powerbombs, the dueling promos, the suckering of HHH out of the arena last week, the lack of Punk getting back at Nash physically, the announcers putting over how "Hunter probably hopes they tear each other apart", and at the very end of the show where H doesn't say he decided he wanted the match himself - but instead he says that he'd just spoke to the Board of Directors, and Punk's match would now be against Hunter instead of Nash?

    Other than those, no reasons why we might have thought Punk-Nash was the match.




Clearly they were building to Punk vs. Nash, which I wrote in my post, but the crux of my argument was WWE didn't really think they were actually going to do Nash vs. Punk before the show, then decide they couldn't do it and then changed their minds somewhere in the middle. I see it as a deliberate bait-and-switch, like you called it, because they needed an excuse to get out of Punk vs. Nash, which they had to address that they were building toward. I do think there could've been a better way to do it, but oh well.



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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

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#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.81
They possibly still are building to Punk/Nash, and HHH/Punk will be schmozz with Nash getting involved, and Nash and Punk will go at it once Nash is fully fit. Hence the continued build-up of Nash.
RedLion79
Longanisa








Since: 12.7.11

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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.26
I wanna see a new belt... and with the apparent end of the brand extention theres no need for 2 champs... and ADR and Orton has the makings of a pretty good feud... have they ever faced off?... unify the titles and bring back an updated Unified title belt....
CRZ
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#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.39
    Originally posted by RedLion79
    I wanna see a new belt... and with the apparent end of the brand extention theres no need for 2 champs... and ADR and Orton has the makings of a pretty good feud... have they ever faced off?... unify the titles and bring back an updated Unified title belt....
Yes, five of your eight posts have said that.



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It's crap like this that gives yet another reason why the RAW/Smackdown rosters need to be more balanced.
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