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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #948 7/25/11 (Page 4)
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shawnpatrick
Kishke








Since: 31.7.07
From: Leesville SC

Since last post: 889 days
Last activity: 772 days
#61 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.53
I thought Cole's promo about JR was really good. But I hope they aren't going to a 3 man commentary team again. Either get rid of JR for good, or put Cole into another position on Raw or just keep him on Smackdown.

I didn't expect Morrison to come back tonight, but R Truth-Morrison feud is something I am not looking forward to.

And for those who hate Cena but love Zach Ryder, look at the reactions each guy got tonight. That's why Ryder isn't on TV much and Cena is.

No Alex Riley in the ring tonight. Can we officially declare his push dead now?

And poor Rey, why would he agree to a title match so soon? Then act almost happy when Cena won it back from him?
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 11 days
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#62 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by shawnpatrick
    And for those who hate Cena but love Zach Ryder, look at the reactions each guy got tonight. That's why Ryder isn't on TV much and Cena is.

I for one am amazed that a guy who has appeared one other time on Raw did not get the same reaction that a guy who has had a main event push for nearly a decade got.



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 1 hour
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#63 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
Also, Cena is one of Ryder's biggest supporters.




geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 4 hours
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#64 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.68
I am wondering why, of all the opportunities to embarrass Cole by making him wear something crazy to the ring, Triple H allowed Cole to use his own gear? That was odd, as it was like Triple H allowing Cole to make fun of him.
Broncolanche
Sujuk








Since: 2.6.03
From: Littleton, CO

Since last post: 1164 days
Last activity: 416 days
#65 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.08
    Originally posted by geemoney
    -Cole announced that Cee Lo Green would perform at Summerslam. Clearly, no one in WWE saw his performance at the NBA All-Star game this past season. Wow, was that bad.
Worse than the Black Eyed Peas at the Super Bowl?
geemoney
Scrapple








Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 4 hours
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#66 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.68
    Originally posted by Broncolanche
      Originally posted by geemoney
      -Cole announced that Cee Lo Green would perform at Summerslam. Clearly, no one in WWE saw his performance at the NBA All-Star game this past season. Wow, was that bad.
    Worse than the Black Eyed Peas at the Super Bowl?

Maybe, but the BEP gets more hassle for their performance, obviously, because it was more high-profile.
RecklessEric
Head cheese








Since: 23.1.02
From: Maine

Since last post: 28 days
Last activity: 1 day
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Y!:
#67 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
Courtesy of With Leather (wish I knew how to do the cool linky thingy)


    "I’m going to sh** in your cereal for a second. You’re wrong. This is exactly what Punk should’ve done. Here’s why.

    Remember that thing I mentioned about Cult of Personality defining Punk? A lot of you are forgetting that no matter how cool he is or how much people cheer for him, CM Punk is the bad guy here. He’s never stopped playing the bad guy, we just like him because he’s so damn fun to listen to. He made a challenge he knew would destruct the Cena/Vince McMahon relationship (destroying the preconception he discussed about Cena being seen as “the best” in his famous promo), then manipulated them both into an unwinnable situation in his hometown in front of his mom and friends so he could win the WWE Championship and “take it away”. But the difference in the ROH storyline and this one is that Punk doesn’t have anywhere to go. There’s no “big leagues” above WWE. Those of you entertaining fantasies of Punk challenging Fire Ant or JT Lightning in the ECW Arena or a Pirate-themed bar in Cleveland are doing just that – entertaining fantasies. Those places don’t pay Punk, and more importantly they don’t give him what he wants the most, the pipe bomb, the microphone, the position of power to trick each and everyone one of you into following him.

    Why do you think Punk showed up at Comic-Con? Because he’s “free” from a job he “didn’t want”? It’s basic human psychology. He wants them to beg him to be there, to be noticed, so that when he shows up he can have whatever he wants. That’s the contract he was trying to get McMahon to sign, that Cena ruined. The jet and the ice cream bars. The cult of personality. He wants to be the center of attention because he’s an ASSHOLE WHO IS LYING TO YOU. He’s just awesome, so we cheer. That makes it great. And here’s why it isn’t “rushed”.

    Before the pay-per-view, Punk sets up the scenario. The story plays out (as you want it to) until Money in the Bank, where he wins the belt and escapes through the crowd. That’s the point where everybody’s on board. People stop being able to follow it the next week, but it’s easy to break down. Vince McMahon realized he has embarrassed himself by losing the belt to Punk, so he shows up on Raw pretending Punk didn’t exist, putting wrestlers he knows will do what they’re told into a tournament for an identical belt, and everybody goes along with it because Vince is the boss. So that’s obiously the first thing that happens after Punk bails. The tournament happens, and before it’s over Vince positions himself as being “bigger than the WWE” and tries to fire Cena. HHH shows up and says “nobody is bigger than WWE” (the super obvious point they’re making), fires Vince, Cena never gets fired because Vince’s stipulation was egotistical and dumb.

    So what’s supposed to happen at that show? A new or “fake” WWE Champion is supposed to be crowned. It doesn’t happen there, but it’s only fair to finish out the tournament, so in week 2 (again, only two shows after Money in the Bank) they have to resolve it. Mysterio beats Miz to win the WWE Championship, which is the end of Vince’s plan. Triple H has to establish power, though, so he sets up his OWN title match, putting the now filled position of WWE Champion against the guy the board of directors (and HHH) felt was mistreated by Vince, Cena. H has to do that right now to show that he’s on Cena’s side, and by proxy the board’s.

    Cena vs. Mysterio happens, and Cena wins. Cena is the “WWE Champion”. From here on out things proceed like CM Punk never existed UNLESS CM PUNK SHOWS UP AGAIN. That’s Punk’s game. He either had to

    1) Show up when somebody was named WWE Champion, a crown that is rightfully his, or
    2) Show up when Cena regained the title, which was frankly inevitable.

    So now Punk has created a reality where nobody but him can be the “real” champion. He’s allowed boards of directors and chief operating officers and a tournament full of guys and a backstage full of champagne sprayers and John f**king Cena to go through the motions so he can waltz back in with his ROH theme song and rub their pointlessness in their faces. Because CM Punk is all about CM Punk, and a world is meaningless unless you’ve got people in it doing what you say. Ask God.

    Punk wasn’t “rushed back”. From a business standpoint he’s the hottest guy in your company, so you want him on TV. He’s the only way things continue from the Real 1985, not the Rich Biff Tannen fake 1985 Vince was trying to create. It makes perfect sense, and Punk’s not a superhero. He’s not an anti-hero. He’s a cult leader, and instead of Colt Cabana and Daffney, instead of Luke Gallows and Serena, instead of McGillicutty and Otunga, the cult is us. The cult of CM Punk’s personality.

    Although I’m sure they’ll screw it up next week."



(adding link - probably don't c&p such large chunks in the future - thecubsfan)

(edited by thecubsfan on 26.7.11 2048)


2009-10 Fantasy Football Champion (Wienerville Sloppy Seconds)




2009-10 Fantasy Football Champion (Wienerville War Room)




Dead Last (Wiener Bowl III)
GRL
Frankfurter








Since: 13.7.02
From: Austin

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 9 hours
#68 Posted on
Son of a - wish I'd read that BEFORE I pre-ordered that white t-shirt! :-)
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#69 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.83
I really don't see the problem here since Cena's fans are a cult as well, they just happen to be kids. Hell, Hulkamania was a giant cult of various people and ages. WWE does everything in their power to create cults from the Coal Miners to the Little Warriors to finally, finally The People. So, this idea that Punk is a bad guy for having a culture around him of certain fans shouldn't be an automatic qualification for heel status since everyone has them. Punk's a piped piper and so is everyone else with a catchphrase that fans can sing a long to.

I still disagree with the idea that Punk is the heel. The demands he was making were fan friendly, who doesn't love ice cream besides those weak willed lactose intolerant people. He may have gone over board about physically harming Vince, but he was willing to sign the deal. Also to be fair, compared Punk's demands to dealing with Austin, it would have been a walk in the park.

The real heel is John Cena. He demanded a match that was off putting Vince in a corner. He forced Vince to deal with Punk then demanded he not deal with this "terrorist". He demanded no one interfere on his behalf and then stopped WWE executives from saving their property. Who gets shit canned after all these shenanigans? Vince. If there is a true heel in all of this its the spoiled child of John Cena who couldn't let Rey celebrate his title win for at least a few hours let alone the customary 24 hours to a week. John is everything wrong with kids today and is the true villain of the story.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 3 hours
#70 Posted on
    Originally posted by lotjx


    The real heel is John Cena. He demanded a match that was off putting Vince in a corner. He forced Vince to deal with Punk then demanded he not deal with this "terrorist". He demanded no one interfere on his behalf and then stopped WWE executives from saving their property. Who gets shit canned after all these shenanigans? Vince. If there is a true heel in all of this its the spoiled child of John Cena who couldn't let Rey celebrate his title win for at least a few hours let alone the customary 24 hours to a week. John is everything wrong with kids today and is the true villain of the story.


While I agree with you on this, I still can never see Cena as a heel. The only fan base he has is kids. Most adults hate him. So who buys a heels merchandise? Adults. You see adults wearing the Miz's shirts and cheering for Del Rio, but these same people would NEVER cheer for a heel Cena or wear his colors. Heel Cena has almost ZERO merchandising selling power. That is a lot ot give up - even if it is short term heel.

The way this plays out - Punk walks the tweener line, Cen stays face and eventually is seen as "the hero" in bringing Punk and the belt back to the WWE. The worst scenario but the most likely.



Life is hilariously cruel.

Big G
Potato korv








Since: 21.8.03
From: the people who brought you Steel Magnolias....

Since last post: 32 days
Last activity: 13 hours
#71 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.44
    Originally posted by lotjx
    John is everything wrong with kids today

After 1887 posts, many threats, much abuse, and finally a banning; we get this little gem.

Maybe not Hamlet, but close enough. The world had righted itself. I love you man!
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#72 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
If you don't think Cena is gonna be over huge as a heel, then I dunno. He'll have zero merchandising potential as a heel? Well, I think that's just crazy. In order to effectively turn heel, he'll have to turn his back on the kids. As soon as he does that, and drops the kidcentric promo style, adults are going to like him (as long as he adopts a harder edge as part of the heel persona).

Also, Punk calls out Vince/WWE Management = he's a face. But Cena stops the same Vince from screwing Punk & keeping the WWE status quo = he's a heel? What happens if Cena let Vince pull another Montreal? Suddenly everything Punk said is validated, and Punk can claim to be screwed out of the title by Vince himself. How is that going to look if Punk decides to walk into TNA claiming to be the Real WWE Champ who had the title stolen from him, with everything he said about Vince/WWE being validated? Cena losing the title hurts, but it would be even worse if he allows a screwjob to occur. Besides, Cena is a fighting champ who would/should never allow himself to win or retain a title in such a matter. Hustle, loyalty, respect. How can he claim to embody those ideals, while idly standing by as Vince screws over someone, handing him a tainted title & victory?



El Nastio
Andouille








Since: 14.1.02
From: Ottawa Ontario, by way of Walkerton

Since last post: 18 hours
Last activity: 6 hours
ICQ:  
#73 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.39
It's right in front of us, and I think we may see history repeating itself a bit.

People didn't think Hogan as a heel would move merch, or that it was even thinkable. Except for one man, one man saw through the facade of Hulkamania.

Heenan.

Cena = Hogan (Say your prayers, take your vitamins = hustle, loyalty, respect). Punk = Heenan (with the obvious exception being Punk can wrestle).

(edited by El Nastio on 27.7.11 0625)


After a (very) long hiatus, I have begun to write again. And this time, I'm not alone!

Click Here (basisgames.blogspot.com) to check out Basis Games - Video Game/Console Reviews, Commentaries, and Analysis. Check it out!
lotjx
Scrapple








Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 7 hours
Last activity: 1 hour
#74 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.83
In my eyes Cena is the heel. If he is such a fair fighting champion, why did he agree to a match with Rey after Rey won the title less than an hour ago? He also had no business asking for Punk to be rehired. Vince as an employer has every right to fire a guy who just public trashed the company. Its like if the head of PR from Apple held a press conference and said "Well, once Steve Jobs dies of cancer, we be fucked." That guy is shit canned within hours if not minutes of that speech. Cena is an employee and he should not be able to call the shots even if he is the highest selling salesman in the company. He may think he is the boss, but Vince is the one writing the checks.

Cena has caused more trouble in the WWE mainly out of his on again, off again ideals of what is fair. He is ok with Punk saying whatever he wants, but not ok with Vince signing a deal that would allow Punk greater freedom in the WWE. He stopped WWE officials from screwing Punk over then agreed to a match where Rey already wrestled before and Cena hadn't wrestled in storyline terms since the PPV. It seems very hypocritical to me and heelish.

Heenan sold Hogan's turn better than anyone. If there was ever a commentator who did more to further an angle its Heenan. He should have been inducted in the HOF just for the "I warned you this day would come since 1985." work that he did with WCW after Bash at the Beach. If they try to do that with Cena and Punk, I will be impressed, but Wpod is dead on with Cena winning at Summerslam to a more than likely chorus of boos.

(edited by lotjx on 27.7.11 0635)

(edited by lotjx on 27.7.11 0833)

The Wee Baby Sheamus.





Twitter: @realjoecarfley its a bit more toned down there. A bit.
The Thrill
Banger








Since: 16.4.02
From: Green Bay, WI

Since last post: 189 days
Last activity: 36 days
#75 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.04
Welcome home, men of the 2nd Bn, 127th Infantry, 32d "Red Arrow" Brigade, WI Army National Guard! Job well done in Iraq!

Good return for Punk, if a bit soon. Problem is...now I'll never be able to use my heel entrance video in NWA Wisconsin ever again.







NWA Wisconsin...Live, Local Pro Wrestling!
Now on Facebook! And Twitter!

spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 11 days
Last activity: 2 days
AIM:  
#76 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
Looks like Punk is likely back for the long term.

http://www.grantland.com/podcasts (Punk is the first one).

    Originally posted by from prowrestling.net coverage of podcast
    Punk said he was sincerely planning to leave WWE and was asked when that changed: "Sunday, at the Money in the Bank pay-per-view," Punk said. "The funny thing is that I wasn't trying to hold out for a better deal. I wasn't playing my cards close to the vest. I had a gigantic life decision to make and it wasn't easy. It took me a very long time, a lot of sleepless nights, and I still wasn't sure. It's kind of a big deal."




2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
Spiraling_Shape
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: PA

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#77 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.51
    Originally posted by spf
    Looks like Punk is likely back for the long term.

    http://www.grantland.com/​podcasts (Punk is the first one).

      Originally posted by from prowrestling.net coverage of podcast
      Punk said he was sincerely planning to leave WWE and was asked when that changed: "Sunday, at the Money in the Bank pay-per-view," Punk said. "The funny thing is that I wasn't trying to hold out for a better deal. I wasn't playing my cards close to the vest. I had a gigantic life decision to make and it wasn't easy. It took me a very long time, a lot of sleepless nights, and I still wasn't sure. It's kind of a big deal."



I just finished listening to the podcast and the thing I took away from it was Punk really *cares* and wants to bring the biz into the 21st century. He thanks Simmons for shining a spotlight on WWE via ESPN lately and doing podcasts with him and The Miz (and if he had known about it, HBK lsat year too I'm sure). And that he is, yes, Officially Back.



"Ice cream bars! Ice cream bars!" - RAW crowd, Boston, 7/11/11
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 116 days
Last activity: 116 days
#78 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.06
The ending of RAW, "Cult of Personality" CM Punk coming out with the (in my eyes legitimate) WWE Championship and standing in the ring face to face with ersatz WWE Champ John Cena, was one of the great confrontations in RAW history.

I watched it a few times, just because it was so cool. And what I saw reminded me of that South Park when Stan met his Future Self. Not that CM Punk is the future self of John Cena, but what they each represent: CM Punk is the future self of WWE, the mature WWE, the manifestation of what could and should be the 21st century version of WWE Attitude. Cena is the kiddiefied WWE, all safe and harmless and juvenile. And there they were staring at each other, each with a spinner belt, and Punk held his higher and got louder response.

And Cena looked old and tired. John Cena is a man in his early 30s who just wrestled a good match against Rey Mysterio and this helped: it made Cena look exhausted and worn out. Despite representing the kids' WWE, he looked tired and out of date. Like the overgrown 10 year old boy he dresses as.

Punk, fresh from a week off, clad in white with new shirt and new music, doesn't look like an overgrown boy. He looks like a WRESTLER. To me, it seemed so clear that WWE needs new leadership, needs that new face on top. Cena did his job as leader of the company and he still has a place as a main eventer. And Cena's stature as The Man for the past 6+ years assures him the significance worthy of facing The Rock to headline WrestleMania. But CM Punk should lead this company into the future.

I loved it. Damned if "Cult of Personality" hasn't been stuck in my head since Monday night.

(edited by John Orquiola on 27.7.11 1251)


@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 1 hour
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#79 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.22
re: Cena//Rey - I haven't watched Raw yet, but from what I can gather, Cena was given the title shot, he didn't ask for it, correct? If so, I have no problem with him agreeing to it. Would anyone else turn down the opportunity if Cena was in Rey's spot? I don't think Cena would expect them to do so. You can't turn down a shot at the title if you get one handed to you. Suppose Cena gets hurt in the intervening week, and never gets another chance? Or if Rey gets hurt, and HHH sets up another tournament?

Also, following the same logic, faces should never cash in their MITB shots against someone who has already wrestled a match. Title shots are (theoretically) too rare to ever put off for any reason. That's what you are in the business, to win the title.



dwaters
Lap cheong








Since: 16.10.02
From: Connecticut

Since last post: 8 hours
Last activity: 8 hours
#80 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.49
Ditto everything John Orquiola said....
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The guy that always give me my WWF fix via his satelite dish is not able to order the PPV.
- dMp, UK Royal Rumble News (2002)
Related threads: RAW #947 7/18/11 - RAW #946 7/11/11 - RAW #945 7/4/11 - More...
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