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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #946 7/11/11 (Page 3)
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Torchslasher
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Since: 17.1.02
From: New F'n Jersey

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.73
    Originally posted by Broncolanche
      Originally posted by Torchslasher
      and nothing too offensive in the midcard filler
    The Bellas/Kelly Kelly segment was pretty terrible. "Haha you're too skinny!"


I guess so, although this isn't quite to the level of the "Molly Holly is really fat, or Vicki is really fat" stuff. Kelly really is too skinny, and at least the Bellas didn't go to the more relevant "you have slept with a lot of the Boys in the Back" burn. It wasn't offensive to me, although the Bellas were bad on the microphone.

And to The Guinness, they did have a graphic for Melina and Justin Roberts did indeed say her name. But yes, Melina was in and out and done quickly. That's fine with me though, so I didn't care.



"Put on your helmets, we'll be reaching speeds of 3!"
"It was nice of you to give that dead woman another chance."
"All right, look alive everybody...oh sorry Susan."- MST3K: Space Mutiny
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dMr
Andouille








Since: 2.11.02
From: Edinburgh, Scotland

Since last post: 46 days
Last activity: 2 days
#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.47
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    It's a shame that, lost in everything else that happened, "I have a megaphone" has not become a meme.
This was absolutely the pinnacle of his work last night for me, although the "let's be honest, probably not" which preceded it was also wonderful.

The only downer on last night's show was that Mark Henry's unintentional tumble off the stage denied us the possibility of him giving us yet more quality Angry Black Man Ranting as he looked down on the destruction he had wrought.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 10 days
Last activity: 6 hours
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    I think it would be funny after seeing the end of that show, The Rock would just call Vince and say "F++k this. I'm doing you guys a favour and I'm getting crapped on by these 2 guys. Match off".

Well, then maybe Dwayne shouldn't be saying things like how he's home again for good, and how he isn't ever going to leave again, and then turning around and leaving. Maybe? Perhaps?

    Originally posted by CxMorgado
    Aside from the lame poop jokes, the thing that really annoyed me about Cena's promo was him saying that Punk was a hypocrite because he was saying he was the voice of the people, but then was going to leave. Except um, John? You kind of interrupted him when he was about to AGREE TO STAY. A minor flaw in an awesome segment, to be sure, but Cena was just so out talked by Punk that the flaws in his material really stood out.

Uh, Punk wasn't really going to agree to stay. The whole point was to embarrass Vince to his face in front of the WWE UNIVERSE.



Toast Jr
Goetta








Since: 30.1.03
From: Stafford Springs, CT

Since last post: 8 days
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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
    Originally posted by Spiraling_Shape
    Drew is currently in the same phantom zone as the SD! sound guy. He vanished! (He also did the best McMahon strut of the night.)


I could have sworn I saw a ref throw up the X in the background and EMTs with gloves.

What I really love about the Punk/Cena angle is that it makes the title seem important. Like having it really means something. WWE seemed to have forgotten that for a while. Also, I would by the hell out of ice cream bars. They were terrible and I would still eat them until I exploded.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 10 hours
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.71
The crowd reaction for Colt Cabana AND Luke Gallows's names was nice.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 6 hours
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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
Huh, two guys fighting because they both want the title and they both think the title is important. How novel.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 118 days
Last activity: 118 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by CRZ
    <

    Image and video hosting by TinyPic


I'm hopping on the MegaBus to Chicago. Bought my MITB ticket the night after his first promo two weeks ago.

One ticket. Solo.

I could never let anyone in the real world in on how excited I am to make this voyage. But I'm super fucking excited. The arena should be insane.
I expect you two will end up next to each other. I hope you know your secret The W™ message board handshake!

(edited by CRZ on 11.7.11 2317)


Maybe you dudes going to Money in the Bank solo can sit next to Billy Corgan.

@Billy Billy Corgan
@JohnCena going to the All-State to see you and @CMPunk tear the house down. The hottest feud in the world right now because of real passion



@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

Since last post: 21 hours
Last activity: 12 hours
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.20
Anyone who thinks that CM Punk could possibly turn face from this angle should probably just give up on the WWE because your priorities are clearly on a different plane from reality.
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 15 days
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.68
Weird to be so dismissive given that four weeks ago you could've said the same thing about two thirds of the shit Punk's been allowed to say on TV recently.
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.76
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    Admittedly, I'm dense, but I'm still missing Punk's motivations and whatever the groundwork is meant to be for a double-turn. So Punk is going the hipster route and being all, "WWE is so corporate! Ice cream bars? Yeah, you probably never ate them, John Cena;" he's basically saying the WWE sucks. And the fans are, seemingly, agreeing with him. (Or is that because Boston is one of those towns?) But Punk doesn't care for their adulation, so if he wins in a double-turn, how does he save face? Does his win solidify that the WWE does indeed suck and that the fans are just in it for the lulz?

    The difference is Bret Hart believed in his message and was more/less right about the changing tastes of the audience, but Punk seems a bit disingenuous.


I actually thought Punk did a great job, when it was just Punk and Vince in the ring, of fully establishing his motivation, and getting it into that same kind of Bret vibe, even though he's partially the anti-Hart. Really, he's kind of a hybrid of both sides of the Bret vs. Austin feud: as a character, he's the exact nightmare of Bret's view of the coarsening of wrestling (and Cena is the legacy of Face Bret), but he's also carrying the flag of "the champ should be the best wrestler" that carried Bret to the top. We even got to see him live the whole thing out during the match Hart reffed.

But yeah, I think his character is supposed to be built on "this company sucks now", with the now being key. Punk's argument is that it doesn't have to suck, because they have him and they just don't use him right, and that they don't use any of the talent right because none of the people in charge know what the people want. And he gets to be at least partially right, because part of the crowd agrees with him and even Cena concedes certain points (his veiled references to the restraints of "working PG" and that people the crowd wants to see in the company right now are being purposefully supressed). And he also gets to keep his edge because he then turns around and blames the half of the crowd supporting him for not forcing the issue themselves. The crux of the argument is still Bret's: Because I'm the best, I deserve to be treated better, but you (Vince) have never really believed that about me or anyone like me. But he gets to do it from Austin's outsider position, as the guy trying to force them into a newer, edgier direction.

I think it's kind of an ingenious solution to the "Let's do Hart vs. Austin again, which one is which?" question. Punk is both. And now Cena has to redefine himself in response, which could be great for his character if he/they rise to the challenge.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Cena talking about diapers was a weak tonal shift after the Vince/Punk negotiations, but I thought the promo he did at the beginning of the show was his best one (and first serious one) in years.
Yeah, once I got past the Serious Cena Face at the beginning (I think this is his biggest weakness as a performer, that his style never allows him to seem like he's taking anything seriously anymore even when he means to be. At least Hogan could retreat into insanity to sell that he believed he and Warrior were really going to fight in a river of blood surrounded by the skeletons of dead warriors), he did very well in the opening segment. This kind of made his first salvo in the closing segment twice as awful, especially with the shocking return of his Boston accent that hadn't appeared since his "ME! JAWN CENA!" debut. But Punk reigned him back in nicely, as others have noted.

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Punk bringing up dead wrestlers I think takes all the cakes. If we count "Kurt Angle" as a "TNA," then we're just a "Benoit" and a "Serena is an alcoholic" away from finishing my bingo card.
Yeah, poor Serena, no mention. Come on, Punk, throw us a bone.

I kind of thought Cena came off weirdly heelish by dropping the Eddie Guerrero reference when he ticked off the list of the Dearly Departed he had conquered. I don't think it was meant to be that way, and if anything, I could see them agreeing that mentioning Eddie was as close as either of them could get to mentioning Benoit (I wouldn't be surprised if Benoit and Owen were the only things on Punk's do not cross list), but it still briefly came off like Cena was saying "Yeah, that's right, I was better than that dead guy that all of you who hate me loved so much" to me. Which was actually effective, as part of the blurring of the lines about which guy is supposed to have the moral high ground.

Also, I always like to think that they consider Angle among the people who died mysteriosly instead of just left. They should have sad music play on the rare occassion he's mentioned, and Cole or Lawler should always make some opaque, solemn-voiced note about how "the Olympic superstar, who left us too soon."

If only because I bet it would drive Angle nuts, to the point that he'd run up to Jarrett and say "Jeff, I'm not dead, am I? I didn't die. I mean, I think I'd...Do ghosts know if they're dead? Jeff, if I'm a ghost, you gotta tell me! Oh my god, I'm dead! I died and no one wants to tell me and now I'm a ghost who wrestles and my family moved on! It all makes sense! It all makes so much sense!"

Anyway, yeah, Punk: the best. And when they inevitably screw this angle up, that will still be true and this will still have been a tremendously entertaining few weeks.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 118 days
Last activity: 118 days
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by InVerse
    Anyone who thinks that CM Punk could possibly turn face from this angle should probably just give up on the WWE because your priorities are clearly on a different plane from reality.


Punk can be turned face just from the audience willing it. Villains become heroes when the people decide they'd rather cheer than boo.

However, I think lost in the hoopla of everyone being so in love with Punk's promos and the catharsis of "HE'S SAYING EVERYTHING WE'RE THINKING - ON TV! TO VINCE MCMAHON'S FACE! AWESOMEST THING EVER!!" is that Punk is the villain here. He is leaving WWE. His leaving damages WWE because it robs us of his greatness. How he leaves on Sunday will determine how much damage he does.

Punk staying in the company was never one of the scenarios presented - the point of that long promo last night when it was finally all said and done is that Punk tore up his new WWE contract. The way the angle is set up, Punk either loses and leaves all alone, or he wins, still leaves, but takes the WWE Title and John Cena's career with him. It's just a question of how much damage Punk can do, whether Cena and win and limit the damage so that all WWE (and we) lose Sunday night is Punk. That's the angle.

But the reality to the best of my knowledge is that Punk is not staying. After Sunday, you won't have CM Punk to be your WWE anarchist anti-hero anymore. So, uh, YAY?

(edited by John Orquiola on 12.7.11 0710)


@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
thecubsfan
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

Since last post: 10 hours
Last activity: 7 hours
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.60
Does leaving WWE in 2011 solidify you as a villain? I have no particular loyalty to the WWE brand, it seems unfair to expect that out of him. As long as I can eventually find Punk being enjoyable somewhere, it doesn't matter much to me what logo is superimposed on the video.



thecubsfan.com - luchablog
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 10 hours
#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.71
Whether it's intentional or not, Punk is turning into today's Macho Man. That tribute outfit seems much more significant these days.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
CxMorgado
Boudin rouge








Since: 21.1.02
From: Boston MA is the rippen'ist town...

Since last post: 305 days
Last activity: 1 day
#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.68
    Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff
      Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
      I think it would be funny after seeing the end of that show, The Rock would just call Vince and say "F++k this. I'm doing you guys a favour and I'm getting crapped on by these 2 guys. Match off".

    Well, then maybe Dwayne shouldn't be saying things like how he's home again for good, and how he isn't ever going to leave again, and then turning around and leaving. Maybe? Perhaps?

      Originally posted by CxMorgado
      Aside from the lame poop jokes, the thing that really annoyed me about Cena's promo was him saying that Punk was a hypocrite because he was saying he was the voice of the people, but then was going to leave. Except um, John? You kind of interrupted him when he was about to AGREE TO STAY. A minor flaw in an awesome segment, to be sure, but Cena was just so out talked by Punk that the flaws in his material really stood out.

    Uh, Punk wasn't really going to agree to stay. The whole point was to embarrass Vince to his face in front of the WWE UNIVERSE.


That's possible, but it's arguable that was the sole point of the segment. Thing of it is, Punk's signature was already on the contract (which he said stipulated he get to continue to harass Vince); all Vince had to do was sign it, and he was in fact putting pen to paper when Cena interrupted. So as far as anyone was concerned at that point in the "reality" of that promo, he was about to get resigned. Cena then provoked him into snatching it back and tearing it up sans Vince's signature by punching Punk in the face. Which gives another layer to the "Vince thinks Cena is going to screw everything up" side of things. So while yeah, Punk could have just been screwing around to be a dick and nothing else, that's overwhelmingly not all that was presented.

(edited by CxMorgado on 12.7.11 1018)


http://wrestling.insidepulse.com/​author/​christophermorgado/​
www.comicnoize.com
Amos Cochran
Lap cheong








Since: 28.8.09

Since last post: 15 days
Last activity: 15 days
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.68
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    But the reality to the best of my knowledge is that Punk is not staying. After Sunday, you won't have CM Punk to be your WWE anarchist anti-hero anymore. So, uh, YAY?

    (edited by John Orquiola on 12.7.11 0710)


If Punk isn't back on WWE TV by next year I'll eat my hat. Vince isn't stupid.

Dr. Unlikely's theory about Angle is the greatest thing ever.
John Orquiola
Scrapple








Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 118 days
Last activity: 118 days
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    Does leaving WWE in 2011 solidify you as a villain? I have no particular loyalty to the WWE brand, it seems unfair to expect that out of him. As long as I can eventually find Punk being enjoyable somewhere, it doesn't matter much to me what logo is superimposed on the video.


But here's the thing, the vast majority of fans won't follow Punk elsewhere. I know I won't. I don't watch other promotions, nor will I to see Punk. So Punk leaving WWE means he's leaving me. He has a right to leave, I understand his reasons why, and I completely agree with him, actually. Still, for me, CM Punk is leaving the only wrestling company I watch, so that sucks. And I'm not alone there. But I'll always have him on Twitter.

And yes, he's not gone forever. Punk will be back. (Probably as a babyface.) Still, right now, he's the hottest and best thing going and he's irreplaceable.

(edited by John Orquiola on 12.7.11 0718)

@BackoftheHead

www.backofthehead.com
Dr Unlikely
Frankfurter








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 15 hours
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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.76
    Originally posted by CxMorgado
    That's possible, but it's arguable that was the sole point of the segment. Thing of it is, Punk's signature was already on the contract (which he said stipulated he get to continue to harass Vince); all Vince had to do was sign it, and he was in fact putting pen to paper when Cena interrupted. So as far as anyone was concerned at that point in the "reality" of that promo, he was about to get resigned. Cena then provoked him into snatching it back and tearing it up sans Vince's signature by punching Punk in the face. Which gives another layer to the "Vince thinks Cena is going to screw everything up" side of things. So while yeah, Punk could have just been screwing around to be a dick and nothing else, that's overwhelmingly not all that was presented.
I definitely recall there being a telling moment before the final segment where Punk casually said something like "Hey, I'm leaving anyway" even after the supposed negotiation with Vince was set up, which I noticed at the time and thought was either weird that he forgot that he's supposed to be on the fence or was meant to be an indication that, yep, he was just going to force Vince to lower himself in front of everyone and then refuse to sign/tear up the contract anyway. I see your point, but I walked away from that taking the whole thing to imply that Punk's intent was just trying to goad one of Vince, Cena or the crowd to give him the excuse to back out, especially because the minute he's locked up, he loses the upper hand. It just turns out that, as presented, Vince folded big time for him, the crowd stuck with him and Cena was the only one who gave Punk what he really wanted by having his buttons pushed, which was the absolute best way to play it.

Re: cubs' question about whether quitting makes you a villain in 2011, that's kind of another interesting parallel to the Austin/Hart angle, which started with Bret already having left only to be prodded back out of his self-imposed post Iron Man Match exile. If they DO go the route of Punk leaving (especially with the title), it'd be interesting to see the catalyst to get him back. Does Cena then jump into the Austin role? Hopefully with Ryder as his Pillman. WWW9mm? Titus O'Neill being beaten with a car door and forgetting to sell being drowned in a kiddie pool? This needs to happen.

There's probably an argument to be made that telling the boss off and just quitting could be considered the heroic move today, where it wouldn't have been in the Attitude/nWo Era (where it was better to stay and destroy from within), which may say something about the audience today. But probably not.
JimBob Skeeter
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 13 hours
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
How many of these do you think will be in the arena that night?



Also, I saw on the back of Big Show's new t-shirt he has WMD on it. They stole my idea, but for the wrong guy! (Even tho El Nastio later said it was Big Show's fist name.)



Whattamaneuver, indeed, Phil.
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 38 days
Last activity: 3 days
#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.62
After the responses he received last night, I would say he is already a face. Tweener, at worst. Who would boo a guy who is basically speaking for a large percentage of the audience to the men who are basically the cause of their complaints?

No way this guy is gone after Sunday. Guys don’t get THIS kind of push out the door. They may be on the brink of the next big thing with Punk, and they know it. He may not be Austin/Hogan/Rock or even Cena big, but they have something big with Punk if they don’t screw it up. So far it has been as close to perfect as it gets. He needs to lose the porn stache, though. : )

Punk defninitly “talked me into the building”, at least via PPV.





"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
JimBob Skeeter
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 16 hours
Last activity: 13 hours
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
Also, I SWEAR Truth said "AFRO-phobia", not agrophobia. THAT made me laugh.
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Related threads: RAW #945 7/4/11 - RAW Roulette #944 6/27/11 - RAW #941 6/6/11 - More...
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