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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #936 5/2/11 (Page 3)
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 49 sec.
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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Plus, Cena or Rock could get hurt then what?


    The Rock's not going to get hurt. Why? Because The Rock's not going to wrestle a match before April 1, 2012. It makes absolutely no business sense to give away The Rock's first match in 7-8 years at any point before The Rock's dream match with John Cena as the main event of WrestleMania 28.

    Cena may get hurt, but he won't. Protecting John Cena's (and The Rock's) well being is currently one of Vince McMahon's highest priorities.

    The Rock vs. John Cena will maintain interest until April 1, 2012. By the time the next Royal Rumble ends until April 1st, we'll be completely oversaturated by Rock vs. Cena hype.

    Otherwise, I simply don't understand talk of The Rock wrestling at Summerslam. It's like people freaking out on December 26th over whether the next Christmas will come. Oh shit! What if something ruins Christmas next year? Or we might forget all about Christmas by this time next year! We better have Christmas in August just to be sure!

    (edited by John Orquiola on 3.5.11 0759)


Accidents happen even on movie or tv sets same thing goes for the ring. I think he should at least cameo here and there to spice things up. I also don't see how Rock wrestling before Mania is somehow going to change the main event. Shouldn't he get some practice time between now and then. They would get better buys and ratings if they let Rock wrestle prior to Mania, I doubt the buyrate for Mania would change.



The Wee Baby Sheamus.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.01
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I also don't see how Rock wrestling before Mania is somehow going to change the main event. Shouldn't he get some practice time between now and then. They would get better buys and ratings if they let Rock wrestle prior to Mania, I doubt the buyrate for Mania would change.


Compare the buyrate of Hogan vs. Rock to Hogan vs. HHH, Hogan vs. Undertaker, Hogan vs. Angle, and Hogan vs. Rock 2.
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 5 days
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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.59
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Compare the buyrate of Hogan vs. Rock to Hogan vs. HHH, Hogan vs. Undertaker, Hogan vs. Angle, and Hogan vs. Rock 2.
Also, compare the buyrate of Austin/Rock 3 to any other modern Wrestlemania, when both Austin and Rock wrestled in the month before after long times off.



It is the policy of the documentary crew to remain true observers and not interfere with its subjects.
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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

Since last post: 49 sec.
Last activity: 48 sec.
#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by lotjx
      I also don't see how Rock wrestling before Mania is somehow going to change the main event. Shouldn't he get some practice time between now and then. They would get better buys and ratings if they let Rock wrestle prior to Mania, I doubt the buyrate for Mania would change.


    Compare the buyrate of Hogan vs. Rock to Hogan vs. HHH, Hogan vs. Undertaker, Hogan vs. Angle, and Hogan vs. Rock 2.


You do realize that Hogan wrestled prior to WM X-8, right?



The Wee Baby Sheamus.
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.01
    Originally posted by lotjx
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
        Originally posted by lotjx
        I also don't see how Rock wrestling before Mania is somehow going to change the main event. Shouldn't he get some practice time between now and then. They would get better buys and ratings if they let Rock wrestle prior to Mania, I doubt the buyrate for Mania would change.


      Compare the buyrate of Hogan vs. Rock to Hogan vs. HHH, Hogan vs. Undertaker, Hogan vs. Angle, and Hogan vs. Rock 2.


    You do realize that Hogan wrestled prior to WM X-8, right?


I do, but he did less in that match than Rock did on the Raw before Wrestlemania.

If Rock was going to wrestle before WM28, he would wrestle Cena, to capitalize on the angle they shot. Saving it for Wrestlemania is to make his first match in eight years (which you only get one of) have the maximum impact, anticipation, eyeballs, return on investment. The more he does, the less special he is, even someone as good as the Rock.

Hogan did big business in his return but the more he did, the less he meant. Same with Foley's unretirement program with Evolution compared to his diminishing returns after that. Same with Bret Hart drawing a rating on January 4, 2010 and never again. Historically, there's always been a genie in a bottle factor when it comes to special legends coming back. You can't put it back in the bottle and you can't wish for three more wishes.

I think Rock should make appearances between now and next year, but they should be treated as rare and special as yesterday's. But him wrestling before then would be pretty crazy, unless it's in the Tough Enough gym. If he wants to do more after that, great for everybody, but you have to make sure you hit on the first and most importance time first.
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.97
Hogan also pinned Rock in the middle of the ring making the fans who thought Hogan had no chance were given the thought he could win. Rock is almost the exact spot where he has not wrestled in forever why should he be considered a threat Yes, he looks in good shape, but he hasn't wrestled in 7 years. I say give him a tag match with Cena at SummerSlam or even a few matches here and there. Cena vs. Rock is going to do big numbers regardless if Rock wrestles or not, but it will do better numbers if Rock is viewed as a real threat and not has some nostalgic wrestler.

We could argue about Bret's return working or not. Foley also cost Orton the Rumble and fought him for a good five minutes after the elimination.I would also argue Foley's unretirement angle went a bit too far and was the Orton/Punk of its day. Again, Hogan wrestled even if it was a tag match and it didn't change the buyrate one bit.

(edited by lotjx on 3.5.11 1601)


The Wee Baby Sheamus.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.33
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Hogan also pinned Rock in the middle of the ring making the fans who thought Hogan had no chance were given the thought he could win. Rock is almost the exact spot where he has not wrestled in forever why should he be considered a threat Yes, he looks in good shape, but he hasn't wrestled in 7 years. I say give him a tag match with Cena at SummerSlam or even a few matches here and there. Cena vs. Rock is going to do big numbers regardless if Rock wrestles or not, but it will do better numbers if Rock is viewed as a real threat and not has some nostalgic wrestler.




I honestly don't think it matters to most fans who wins. Yes, you have the extreme fans on one side or the other of the Cena debate who always care if he wins/loses, but for the most part, I think fans just want to sit back and enjoy a Cena vs. Rock match, to see them physically interact in the ring for a full match, to see the Attitude Era vs. the PG Era. I think just seeing Rock back in the ring is enough.
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 431 days
Last activity: 160 days
#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
I was extremely surprised that the Miami crowd was as Pro-Cena as they were.

BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.00
(deleted by BigDaddyLoco on 6.5.11 1910)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.01
So, apropos of nothing, the rating for Rock's fourth appearance in six weeks fell from a 3.9 to a 3.4.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 3.5.11 1906)
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 9 days
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#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.71
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    So, apropos of nothing, the rating for Rock's fourth appearance in six weeks fell from a 3.9 to a 3.4.

    (edited by JustinShapiro on 3.5.11 1906)


We enjoy the return of the Rock. We don't enjoy the return of the 20-minute talking segments.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Kevintripod
Boudin blanc








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

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#52 Posted on
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
    Kharma cannot give Kelly Kelly the Implant Buster because Kelly Kelly has no implants.



I think Kelly Kelly got a boob job at some point after she entered the WWE.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2009/images/05/19/kelly-kelly-wwe.jpg

http://www.pollsb.com/photos/o/279232-kelly_kelly.jpg





"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 86 days
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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.15


I'm not going to get into a debate into whether Kelly Kelly has implants but you can't judge by photos from Maxim or FHM, which are clearly airbrushed and enhanced. The Divas also wear padded bras in the ring. To the best of my knowledge, Kelly Kelly, Brie and Nikki Bella are natural.



@BackoftheHead






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Big G
Potato korv








Since: 21.8.03
From: the people who brought you Steel Magnolias....

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 1 day
#54 Posted on


To my admittedly untrained eye (I'm more an enthusiastic amateur) I couldn't see a great deal of difference in 'mass' between the 2 photo's, taking into account the differing garments and poses. YMMV.
Scottyflamingo
Bratwurst








Since: 23.6.10
From: Auburn, AL

Since last post: 431 days
Last activity: 160 days
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      So, apropos of nothing, the rating for Rock's fourth appearance in six weeks fell from a 3.9 to a 3.4.

      (edited by JustinShapiro on 3.5.11 1906)


    We enjoy the return of the Rock. We don't enjoy the return of the 20-minute talking segments.


The fans know that he isn't going to wrestle for a year, so they don't care.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.01
(the
more
Rock
is
on
TV
the
less
special
he
is)

look at how youthful Kelly looked back when she was 19 instead of, uh, 24

(edited by JustinShapiro on 3.5.11 2211)
Mr Shh
Toulouse








Since: 9.1.02
From: Bergen County, NJ

Since last post: 25 days
Last activity: 25 days
#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.07
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Compare the buyrate of Hogan vs. Rock to Hogan vs. HHH, Hogan vs. Undertaker, Hogan vs. Angle, and Hogan vs. Rock 2.

Why would you compare WM buys to not-WM buys? How did Backlash '02 do compared to '01? And how do the drops from X-7 to BL '01 and from X-8 to BL '02 compare? (I don't know, I don't have those numbers).

    Originally posted by hansen9j
    Also, compare the buyrate of Austin/Rock 3 to any other modern Wrestlemania, when both Austin and Rock wrestled in the month before after long times off.

On a graph, WM19 is in an abyss. But you're going to hang that solely on Austin and Rock wrestling the month prior? Hogan-Vince was the marquee match at WM19. And given how much WM19 buys fell off a cliff, I can't imagine keeping Austin and Rock out of matches would've done any good.

I'm not saying Rock wrestling before WM28 will hurt or not hurt the buys, but your comparisons are not very informative.

But...

    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    (the
    more
    Rock
    is
    on
    TV
    the
    less
    special
    he
    is)

I hope John Cena reads this and realizes that he cannot be going on live TV every week for the next year calling Rock out for staying at home and talking while he travels the roads and fights. Doing that would hurt Rock's selling value more than having Rock wrestle at Summerslam.


(edited by Mr Shh on 3.5.11 2301)


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CruelAngel777
Frankfurter








Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 15 hours
#58 Posted on
Maybe Kharma is going after the mean divas first cause they have built the most bad karma recently. Once she has punished all the girls with bad karma she has to balance out things so she goes after the good divas.

The only way she'll be stopped is by a tweener Diva standing up to her. We need a female Austin!
Kevintripod
Boudin blanc








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 2 hours
AIM:  
#59 Posted on




Both those pics are "after" pics. (To me anyways)

This I think is a "before" pic:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/​​2212/​​2048905506_​​7bfe4bfb85.jpg

(edited by Kevintripod on 3.5.11 2039)




"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 7 hours
#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.01
    Originally posted by Mr Shh
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Compare the buyrate of Hogan vs. Rock to Hogan vs. HHH, Hogan vs. Undertaker, Hogan vs. Angle, and Hogan vs. Rock 2.

    Why would you compare WM buys to not-WM buys? How did Backlash '02 do compared to '01? And how do the drops from X-7 to BL '01 and from X-8 to BL '02 compare? (I don't know, I don't have those numbers).


Aye, I didn't intend a WM to non-WM direct comparison, I just worded it lazily. They all should've been vs. expectations. Backlash 2002 was supposed to do really well because Hogan was perceived to be a super hot face coming after Wrestlemania and it was another dream match against a top 3 WWF star, and it ended up being a big disappointment and was down from Hogan's first appearance in February. The next two did progressively worse and Hogan was done as a draw after two months on TV.

Same progression with Foley. His return PPV, Bad Blood 2003, did a surprisingly strong buyrate on a show that was expected to die with Nash/HHH on top. Rock & Sock/Evolution was arguably the biggest issue at Wrestlemania 20 (albeit one of five main events). But Foley/Orton at Backlash didn't draw and none of his many comebacks after that ever lifted a PPV on their own like he did the first time.

I'll try to dig out the str8 numbers tomorrow.
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