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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #907 10/11/10 (Page 2)
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Amos Cochran
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Since: 28.8.09

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.86
Why would Vince McMahon put Steve Austin through so much shit? Heel authority figures have never, ever acted in ther best monetary interests.

It doesn't matter what your girlfriend says - the GM says he's fired if he reneges on the stipulation. So in storyline terms it's not easy to get out of at all.
Tyler Durden
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.10
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    It doesn't matter what your girlfriend says


Just leave it like this and have it printed on a shirt. :)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by DMS
    People who watch shows or movies WANT to get into them and be the character and root for them (like John McLaine or Hulk Hogan) and right now, they aren't presenting Cena in a role like this (and he's supposed to be their main guy). Who wants to watch their 'hero' have a puss on, act all emo and go thru 'angst' over a situation that really, isn't hard to get out of?


I just accept the indentured servitude as part of wrestling logic even if it's kind of silly when you think about it. Cena did say he would join Nexus if he lost, and this was all notarized in official WWE paperwork. So legally it is probably hard to get out of, McDevitt draws up all the match contracts and he makes them ironclad and very complicated. WWE would fire him because they know that their trustworthiness as a business is far more important than making money. Yeah.

Cena's also been getting the best crowd reactions he has in a long time and shot ahead of Orton's so I don't think people are balking at the presentation of their hero. How many weeks can he be browbeaten and not punch back can there be before people are less into it since they know it's not coming yet, that I don't know.
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 83 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.61
    Originally posted by Amos Cochran
    Why would Vince McMahon put Steve Austin through so much shit? Heel authority figures have never, ever acted in ther best monetary interests.

    It doesn't matter what your girlfriend says - the GM says he's fired if he reneges on the stipulation. So in storyline terms it's not easy to get out of at all.


But you've made the point there. Heel authority figures acting evil just for the sake of being evil doesn't work anymore, as the viewer is more sophisicated now. As a viewer, I want more from my faces and heels than just doing stuff because that's what bad or good guys do. It's like when Randy Orton tried to take a countout victory against Triple H 2 Wrestlemanias ago, when 2 weeks before hand, the guy attacked him in his home and terrorized his wife. He was being a heel to just be a heel when he has just as much motivation to beat the hell out of HHH. Plus we're not even sure if the GM IS a heel or face (so to spea).

Vince put Austin thru a lot of crap (storyline wise) but it was rationalize by the fact that people would WATCH him do this and it was good for business (he even said it in a speech to Mick Foley when he fired him: "I hate Austin, but he makes me richer". Heck, Vince even gave the same speech to Cena about 2 or 3 yrs ago). For the Cena character not to be aware of the cash cow he is and that he holds some cards in it seems like a major hole they are ignoring. Would it be that much of a stretch if they decided to have him beat the tar out of Barrett, get fired and have all of "Cenanation" or whatever the hell they call his follwers email and call WWE to try and get him back? Or even have him for several weeks trying to get back into the WWE (thus actually doing something as opposed to reacting to things)? Or even do the Ronnie Garvin storyline and make him a ref and have him torment Barrett until he gives in and wants a match with him?

Watching the Cena character frustrates me because there are a lot of ways to go with him, but they prefer to present him as 'Superman' or 'Hulk Hogan 2.0'. He's no so much a wrestler or a person as he is what a 10 yr old THINKS a wrestler or a person should be (which is why most adult males hate him). Austin, for as much of a characticature he was, could be at least relatable to people (guy who rebelled against his boss and did his own thing). He stalked Vince, tracked him down in hospitals, threatened to shoot him in the ring. People loved rooting for him because he was proactive and at least was 'storyline' smart. Cena, on the other hand, isn't. Terrible things happen to him or he loses the title or gets pinned, but in 3 weeks, everything is okay, as he 'fights the odds' and just gets his title back. It's ineviatable and quite boring.



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
DirtyMikeSeaver
Boudin rouge








Since: 19.5.02
From: Toronto

Since last post: 83 days
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.61
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by DMS
      People who watch shows or movies WANT to get into them and be the character and root for them (like John McLaine or Hulk Hogan) and right now, they aren't presenting Cena in a role like this (and he's supposed to be their main guy). Who wants to watch their 'hero' have a puss on, act all emo and go thru 'angst' over a situation that really, isn't hard to get out of?


    I just accept the indentured servitude as part of wrestling logic even if it's kind of silly when you think about it. Cena did say he would join Nexus if he lost, and this was all notarized in official WWE paperwork. So legally it is probably hard to get out of, McDevitt draws up all the match contracts and he makes them ironclad and very complicated. WWE would fire him because they know that their trustworthiness as a business is far more important than making money. Yeah.

    Cena's also been getting the best crowd reactions he has in a long time and shot ahead of Orton's so I don't think people are balking at the presentation of their hero. How many weeks can he be browbeaten and not punch back can there be before people are less into it since they know it's not coming yet, that I don't know.


I get that it might not be easy per se. I just wish that the WWE would cover a little more about the stips and not leave it that someone like my gf, who doesn't follow wrestling at all, can point out logic flaws easily. Like, how long does he have to be a member of Nexus? What happens if Barrett moves to Smackdown? Or Cena moves to Smackdown? And maybe it would also help if Wade Barrett didn't act like Snidey Whiplash. His focus (storyline wise) should be on Orton, not tormenting Cena. And yeah, there is a danger of people being turned off by his inactivity. Right now, it's working, but I can't see them going weeks like this.

And BTW, what company cares more about Trustworthiness than making money? :)



Kevin Kelly: "Mr. Austin, would you like to comment on Wade Keller's Take that endorsing the XFL hurts your anti-authority character?"

Steve Austin: "Oh shit, he actually said that? I thought the boys in the back were ribbing me!"

Kelly: "No, he really said that. Did they tell you the part about you sitting in the stands, looking all skeptical?"

Austin: "AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Yeah... oh man that was too much."
Tribal Prophet
Andouille








Since: 9.1.02
From: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    Who wants to watch their 'hero' have a puss on, act all emo and go thru 'angst' over a situation that really, isn't hard to get out of?


Anyone who loves the Twilight movies. (And the demographic they are going for is a lot closer to that group than it is to us)
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
Speaking of heroes taking orders, Kane mentioned this in his "ring of fire" speech Friday. He noted that, unlike the audience members, he as the super-evil champ doesn't have to answer to anyone. He was taunting us.

That's what made the Michaels/LBJ angle so interesting. Shawn was in the exact same position as Cena now: Do my evil bidding, or you're fired.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
ecwfan4life2004
Mettwurst








Since: 12.4.04
From: PA, USA

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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.32
Which would lead me to believe the GM is JBL or Shawn Michaels. Either way I want the damn GM revealed and Cole hit with every friggin finisher on Raw & Smackdown combined and have every single one of his bones broken
AegisD
Cotto








Since: 22.5.10

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#29 Posted on
    Originally posted by ecwfan4life2004
    Which would lead me to believe the GM is JBL or Shawn Michaels. Either way I want the damn GM revealed and Cole hit with every friggin finisher on Raw & Smackdown combined and have every single one of his bones broken


Is anyone else afraid they're going to have a "big reveal" and it's some huge name like Rock or Austin, then have them on for a few weeks, then go back to "giving orders from the computer" when they leave to go back to whatever it is they're doing?

I'd for one prefer someone like Cole, or even Sheamus's grandmother, as long as they actually show up.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
    Originally posted by DirtyMikeSeaver
    And maybe it would also help if Wade Barrett didn't act like Snidey Whiplash.







Someone get Wade Barrett a handlebar mustache to twirl.

(edited by redsoxnation on 12.10.10 1358)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.81
    Originally posted by ecwfan4life2004
    Which would lead me to believe the GM is JBL or Shawn Michaels. Either way I want the damn GM revealed and Cole hit with every friggin finisher on Raw & Smackdown combined and have every single one of his bones broken


That makes me think Cole would be an awesome GM? I would rather see him cutting promos in the ring than doing the schizophrenic announcing. JBL would be a great payoff. It ain't Shawn Michaels. Right now I think they're having fun with their beedly boops and "may I have your attention please" gimmick so I wouldn't expect to see it end any time imminently.

Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.98
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    Right now I think they're having fun with their beedly boops and "may I have your attention please" gimmick so I wouldn't expect to see it end any time imminently.


The audience doesn't sound happy with the email sound or Cole's approach to the podium. They may cheer the announcement, but that suggests they like the booking but not the GM gimmick.

Me, I'm hoping for Batista to come back and GM. His last work on RAW was fun.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
MUTigermask
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Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

Since last post: 292 days
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.16
I think it makes perfect sense for Cena to not to haul off on Barrett because of the threat of being fired. Whereas a Rock or Austin could have given a damn about the consequences, Cena's character LIVES for the WWE. He's all about the business, performing for the "WWE Universe". And to be fired and not be able to do what he loves most would be a fate worse than death for him. So he keeps doing what he's doing, even if he knows it is wrong, and it pains him to do so. And while yeah, it is kind of silly they'd fire the most popular wrestler on the show, I can live with the whole "nobody is bigger than the WWE" explanation. Sometimes in wrestling you just have to try not to think too much about logic holes.

I'm hoping the R-Truth promo is foreshadowing for Cena eventually realizing that because he is Nexus, everyone IS against him. And it leads to him embracing being a member.
Leroy
Andouille








Since: 7.2.02
From: Huntington, NY

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#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.18
(deleted by Leroy on 12.10.10 1440)
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
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#35 Posted on
    Originally posted by Tyler Durden
      Originally posted by Amos Cochran
      It doesn't matter what your girlfriend says


    Just leave it like this and have it printed on a shirt. :)


Or we can just start a brand new wrestling thread called S#!T MY GIRLFRIEND SAYS.




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CRZ
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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.35
    Originally posted by Leroy
    The thing with Kofi-Cena is also compelling.
Oh dear.



El Nastio
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Since: 14.1.02
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#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.66
    Originally posted by John Orquiola
      Originally posted by Tyler Durden
        Originally posted by Amos Cochran
        It doesn't matter what your girlfriend says


      Just leave it like this and have it printed on a shirt. :)


    Or we can just start a brand new wrestling thread called S#!T MY GIRLFRIEND SAYS.



My wife says to me she says "wait, are you watching WRASSLIN'"?

Me: DON'T JUDGE ME!

Her: "It's okay, you can watch your 'stories', I'll go do something else".

Me: "DON'T. JUDGE ME!"



After a (very) long hiatus, I have begun to write again. And this time, I'm not alone!

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lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.66
    Originally posted by MUTigermask
    I think it makes perfect sense for Cena to not to haul off on Barrett because of the threat of being fired. Whereas a Rock or Austin could have given a damn about the consequences, Cena's character LIVES for the WWE. He's all about the business, performing for the "WWE Universe". And to be fired and not be able to do what he loves most would be a fate worse than death for him. So he keeps doing what he's doing, even if he knows it is wrong, and it pains him to do so. And while yeah, it is kind of silly they'd fire the most popular wrestler on the show, I can live with the whole "nobody is bigger than the WWE" explanation. Sometimes in wrestling you just have to try not to think too much about logic holes.

    I'm hoping the R-Truth promo is foreshadowing for Cena eventually realizing that because he is Nexus, everyone IS against him. And it leads to him embracing being a member.


I like your analysis of the Cena character and it makes perfect sense. It also explains why I hate this version of Cena. He is living through the fans even though half of them hate him. The fact that Nexus hasn't brought this up to get him to join is irritating. Yes, he is getting more pops now then ever, but its manly due to how evil Wade has become as well as Nexus. Once Nexus goes away, he becomes the 50/50 champion and becomes as stale as ever. And honestly, where the hell were these ideas the last few years. The WWE has left Cena out to dry without storylines that backfire on getting fan support for him like WM 22, his feud with Kurt and so on. It would have been nice for John to face a faction a few years ago who could get some real heel heat instead of fighting Edge, Orton and HHH a billion times. If this was done earlier, Cena won't be pigeon holed as the kiddie champ.

Having said all that, I think this could go on for awhile and I hope it does. Its too lazy to have this end at Survivor Series. Back in the day, this could go on for 3 months to a year if booked correctly . The worse thing should not have been the faceless and now getting heel heat GM firing Cena, it would be Cena going back on his word which is more damning for the kiddie champ. It would have been more effective if there was also a face veteran like Austin around to tell him to man up. Telling him, you made the deal they cheated, but you have to do what they say for now.

The other problem besides non-wrestling fans pointing out the obvious that firing Cena would hurt the WWE, is who is going to give the "WWE is bigger then anyone speech?" Michael Cole on podium, Orton who has been suspended a number of times by management or a Vince McMahon who wants to stay way from the spotlight til after Linda loses her senate run. Hell, even if the GM is Austin, he can't really give that speech since he had that speech directed at him in 2002. Its also a hard speech even for Vince to give with Linda being targeted by ads bashing them for their hiring and firing. Its a tough call even to go in that direction.

Even if Cena does knock out Wade then what? An email writing campaign for a guy who can't keep his cool or his word? A quick turnaround by the GM not to fire him, but suspend him. If he does that then why did Cena go through all of this nonsense if the GM is just going to change his mind. Quitting looks worse for Cena. The only logical way out of this is for the GM to make a match for Cena to get out of this or someone finds a way to dismantle Nexus.

Its a good storyline, but they are starting to dig themselves some holes. Like the GM being in charge of Nexus all of the sudden unless he really is the secret boss we all forgot about. NXT season 2 guys getting contracts for interfering in matches while Kaval busted his ass just to job on Smackdown. GM rulings that make no sense at all or leaves little room to maneuver or just the phantom GM in general. Like I said earlier, I would like to see this go for awhile and its a good storyline maybe Cena's best storyline since facing JBL at WM21. Yet, they have to be careful.

(edited by lotjx on 12.10.10 1521)
JayJayDean
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Since: 2.1.02
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.65
    Originally posted by lotjx
    I like your analysis of the Cena character and it makes perfect sense. It also explains why I hate this version of Cena.


Every time Cena acts ruefully about "I don't know what I would do without wrestling" I want to scream at the TV "YOU WOULD GO MAKE MORE CRAPPY MOVIES YOU IDIOT." The idea that John Cena's life would end without the WWE is fairly ridiculous.

And what's with the GM's logic? "I want RAW to WIN Bragging Rights this year." So, using randomly chosen matches to determine the team AND captain is the way to make the best team? Really? (Really?) Maybe Matt Millen is the RAW GM.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
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BigDaddyLoco
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#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.68
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Right now I think they're having fun with their beedly boops and "may I have your attention please" gimmick so I wouldn't expect to see it end any time imminently.


    The audience doesn't sound happy with the email sound or Cole's approach to the podium. They may cheer the announcement, but that suggests they like the booking but not the GM gimmick.

    Me, I'm hoping for Batista to come back and GM. His last work on RAW was fun.


I'm a total sucker for the whole computer noise, followed by Cole's catch phrase. I think if the GM was Cole it would be disappointing to a lot of people at first, but I can really see the guy generating Vickie Guerrero heat over the long haul.

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TNA Champion Mick Foley and bug-eyed cretin Jeremy Borash are walking and talking in the halls of power. Mick points out out that Jeff Jarrett's threats to fire Mick are empty -- "as executive shareholder, I don't work for Jeff -- I work with him.
- Karlos the Jackal, iMPACT! 4-30-09 "The Godfather's Revenge" (2009)
Related threads: RAW #906 10/4/10 - I know you're Nexus, but what am I? - RAW #905 9/27/10 - More...
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