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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #882 4/19/10 (Page 3)
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geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.18
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    You know who else jobbbed a lot? The Rock. Kurt Angle. Punk jobs every week now. Just saying. Wins and losses DON'T MATTER.



I think that if you reach a certain level, wins and losses don't matter. Rock, Angle and Punk were/are on that main event level, plus, their mic work can make up for any loss. I don't know if Swagger is seen at that level yet where losses won't damage him at all.
Tyler Durden
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Since: 22.2.04
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.14
    Originally posted by graves9
      Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
      You know who else jobbbed a lot? The Rock. Kurt Angle. Punk jobs every week now. Just saying. Wins and losses DON'T MATTER.

      And he was undefeated on Smackdown til this week apparently. I like how that's constantly ignored, and you wonder why the WWE considers RAW the flagship show.
    He's wrestled all of what 4 matches on Smackdown? Outside of Punk the guys you mentioned had strong title reigns. These title reigns where guys look like chumps do nothing at all for anyone.



The Rock's title reigns:

1: from Survivor Series 98 to Raw a few weeks later
2: from Royal Rumble 99 to Half Time Heat a few days (?) later
3: from Raw after St. Valentine's Day Massacre to WM XV a few weeks later
4: from Backlash 00(because he couldn't do it at Mania!) to Judgment Day 00 a few weeks later (next PPV!)
5: from King of the Ring (pinning Vince Mc Mahon!) to No Mercy 00 a few months later = probably his "strongest" reign
6: No Way Out 00 to WM X7 a few weeks later (next PPV!)
7: Summerslam 01 to No Mercy 01 a few weeks later
8: Raw a few days after No Mercy to Vengeance a few weeks later (two PPVs)
9: Vengeance 02 to Summerslam a few weeks later (next PPV!)

The Rock was a huge star and all, but his title reigns were never strong.
graves9
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Since: 19.2.10
From: Brooklyn NY

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87
    Originally posted by Tyler Durden
      Originally posted by graves9
        Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
        You know who else jobbbed a lot? The Rock. Kurt Angle. Punk jobs every week now. Just saying. Wins and losses DON'T MATTER.

        And he was undefeated on Smackdown til this week apparently. I like how that's constantly ignored, and you wonder why the WWE considers RAW the flagship show.
      He's wrestled all of what 4 matches on Smackdown? Outside of Punk the guys you mentioned had strong title reigns. These title reigns where guys look like chumps do nothing at all for anyone.



    The Rock's title reigns:

    1: from Survivor Series 98 to Raw a few weeks later
    2: from Royal Rumble 99 to Half Time Heat a few days (?) later
    3: from Raw after St. Valentine's Day Massacre to WM XV a few weeks later
    4: from Backlash 00(because he couldn't do it at Mania!) to Judgment Day 00 a few weeks later (next PPV!)
    5: from King of the Ring (pinning Vince Mc Mahon!) to No Mercy 00 a few months later = probably his "strongest" reign
    6: No Way Out 00 to WM X7 a few weeks later (next PPV!)
    7: Summerslam 01 to No Mercy 01 a few weeks later
    8: Raw a few days after No Mercy to Vengeance a few weeks later (two PPVs)
    9: Vengeance 02 to Summerslam a few weeks later (next PPV!)

    The Rock was a huge star and all, but his title reigns were never strong.
Yes he never held the title all that long but he was never booked to look like a chump.

(edited by graves9 on 22.4.10 1211)
JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.51
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    And he was undefeated on Smackdown til this week apparently. I like how that's constantly ignored, and you wonder why the WWE considers RAW the flagship show.


Wow he beat JoMo? whoa yo.


    Wins and losses DON'T MATTER.


It's more that the world titles DON'T MATTER. Anyone can win them, they still lose while they hold them, there's a new champion every month, there've been two seconds-long reigns in the last year, and one guy won the belt when a dude accidentally fell through a table.
Tyler Durden
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Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.14
    Originally posted by graves9
    Yes he never held the title all that long but he was never booked to look like a chump.

    (edited by graves9 on 22.4.10 1211)


True. You're right.
Psycho Penguin
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Since: 24.6.07
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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.32
Wait, how on earth was Kurt Angle a bona fide main eventer when he won the title his first time? It was still his first year and his only previous feuds were the match where Taker squashed him and the nonsense with HHH that HHH won also. Then Kurt needed to use his brother dressed as him to trick Taker at Survivor Series then ate the pin in a 6 man HIAC match to lose the title. Let's not rewrite history now that Kurt became a strong main eventer and assume he always was one.


    Wow he beat JoMo? whoa yo.


Yes, he sure did a few weeks ago. Good match too.



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RYDER FAKIN
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#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.17
then ate the pin in a 6 man HIAC match to lose the title.

DID NOT

FLEA

edit:

Wow whoops, I was wrong about that. That's when his push actually began. Two months into his reign.

Was NOT. He beat Rock, UT, everyone, HHH and then lost to Rock at No Way Out in the coolest finish ever. Angle's problem was they could never figure out if he was a bad ass machine or a goofy patriotic babyface. He still has that problem...but that has nothing to do with a "push". He was gold from day one

FLEA


(edited by RYDER FAKIN on 22.4.10 1436)


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Psycho Penguin
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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.32
Wow whoops, I was wrong about that. That's when his push actually began. Two months into his reign.

Angle needed help and looked like an idiot vs Taker at Survivor Series. After Taker squashed him at Fully Loaded. That is not a push if we're referring to it by wins and losses now. If a push constitutes wins and losses now, then Angle had one good win from July to December, and that was vs Rock. Who as I already mentioned, jobbed a LOT.

Angle got over from mic work and being a sneaky heel. That's a way to push someone. There are other ways to push people besides having them win every match. Kozlov won every match for a while. Mark Henry was undefeated for a while. Snitzky was hailed as undefeated twice. That doesn't always work. There needs to be a balance, and thats why worrying that he's jobbing a lot isn't important. Everyone besides Hogan has jobbed a lot, it seems.

And Swagger is feuding with Orton, Edge, and Jericho now, so the reign is already more successful than Sheamus' was. I really hate how short of a memory some fans have sometimes. Sheamus' reign was better now? Everyone hated that back in January. The man never got promo time, never beat anyone for the most part, and didn't wrestle any big names outside of Cena (who he never pinned) and the Rumble. And Swagger's push is worse because he's gone toe to toe with Taker, didn't need a DQ vs Orton, and beat Edge and Jericho?

(edited by Psycho Penguin on 22.4.10 1509)

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graves9
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Since: 19.2.10
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#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.87
    Originally posted by Psycho Penguin
    Wait, how on earth was Kurt Angle a bona fide main eventer when he won the title his first time? It was still his first year and his only previous feuds were the match where Taker squashed him and the nonsense with HHH that HHH won also. Then Kurt needed to use his brother dressed as him to trick Taker at Survivor Series then ate the pin in a 6 man HIAC match to lose the title. Let's not rewrite history now that Kurt became a strong main eventer and assume he always was one.


      Wow he beat JoMo? whoa yo.


    No question The Undertaker made Angle look like Barry Horowitz at The Fully Loaded ppv. Angle was still more established than Swagger when he won the title. He had won The I.C and European titles earlier in his first year and feuded with two midcarders(at the time) who were really over in Benoit and Jericho. The whole thing with HHH started out promisingly enough but ended up making Angle look bad. That is still better than Swagger being to made look bad by a comedy character like Santino before The Royal Rumble and being booked to look like a joke. The biggest star Swagger feuded with before winning the World Title on Smackdown is Christian(who has mostly been margainlized since returning)

    (edited by graves9 on 22.4.10 1338)

    (edited by graves9 on 22.4.10 1338)
lotjx
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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.45
Kurt also had an entire year to build to his win plus he had a great storyline when he won with HHH/Steph/Kurt. The best thing for Kurt was to have Steph turn on HHH then beat Rock at the next PPV. Steph was a giant heat magnet and could have turned Kurt from dork to bad ass with a few promos. Yet, I think Steph/HHH's real life relationship damaged his push. It didn't make any sense otherwise to keep a heat seeker like Steph with quasi-face HHH. Taker has never really done anyone any favors when he goes after them for their first title defense expect maybe Austin. Even his first match with Brock, he made Brock look like a bitch.

Rock's title reigns are mostly marred by HHH. I know its passe to blame him for things now a days, but its true. Rock should have never lost at Judgement Day or even win the belt back in that ridiculous manner at KOTR. He should have lost it to Kurt during that time since Austin was coming back. Yet, Rock as over never really got the title reign he deserved. All the people cared about with Rock was the promos which is a shame since he is probably the most underrated wrestler of his time.

(edited by lotjx on 22.4.10 1545)
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