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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #867 1/4/10 (Page 2)
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The Game
Boudin rouge








Since: 5.5.09

Since last post: 191 days
Last activity: 191 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.10
I am curious to how deep the hatchet was truly buried between Bret Hart and HBK if part of it was true or if it was false and it was seemed to be made true via script.

Bret Hart and HBK though were gold in their segment and I liked how Bret made reference to Jerry Lawler and the King of the Ring (oh the memories).

There were 2 solid matches of the night and that was the Unified Tag Title match and the match between Kofi and Orton.

At the end of the tag match, it sorta looked looked like Big Show would turn on Jericho but just stood over him in big disappointment. No biggie now; Jericho can concentrate on being a singles wrestler now.

Oh, did anyone catch the quick reference to when Santino (as Jericho) mentioned Jesse Ventura and his new show Conspiracy Theory? It's just the little things that grab my attention and appreciation.

At the end of the show, Vince tried not to have Bret come out but to everyone's delight, The Hitman made his way down the ramp. Now here is the thing that boggles my mind........

At the very end, it would seem that Bret would be 2 for 2 in bringing closure to the Montreal Screwjob. However, Vince at the end kicks Bret to leave him laying on the floor in the ring and it's no wonder why people never leave the screwjob alone.

Does Vince ever want to try to heal this incident? Fans are still going to be talking about this for the next 20 years at least. I guess from a business perspective, it gains Vince and the WWE more attention but still it would be a little more proper to actually try to do some damage control to what happened more than a decade ago.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 4 hours
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
I really liked last night's show. Really, there were only two bad spots as far as I was concerned - Sheamus' title match, and Orton beating Kingston. The title match actually could have been really fun, but it was stupid to rush the whole thing to as short as they did, and I don't get why they keep having Bourne hit his move and then not getting the pin. Well, I mean I do - they know people like to see his shooting star press, but they don't want to give him any wins - but I think it's pretty dumb and just keeps making him look weaker and weaker. These short squash matches aren't doing anything to help Sheamus' credibility as champ. And Kingston continually losing to Orton is killing him. He's now too big for the midcard, but Orton is keeping him from breaking into the upper card. He's stuck in limbo without a big win or a clear depush, and I don't think I'm going too far in saying none of us want to see a depush.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 min.
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.71
Bret did much better on the mic than I feared. Some of that is his now-retro style of talking. He said more than seven words at a time and didn't pause repeatedly for a crowd reaction. Vince can get pissed at the audience for shouting "what," but his speaking pattern offers too many chances to yell it out.

Holy crap, Miz IS awesome. Not only does he stand out on the mic, but he doesn't dress like Cena or Vince. Love than theme too.

Orton is ten times more interesting when he's not prowling or speaking in slow-motion. I hope his "viper" behavior is done.

That ending has me hooked.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 15 min.
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.69
The most amusing thing of the whole night was Shawn's line (paraphrased) "I have changed a lot in the last 12 years."

...says the guy using the exact same gimmick he was using the last time he faced Bret 12 years ago.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
KJames199
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 2 min.
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.07
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    Much rather see Bret vs Triple H at WM.
Just remember - Bret can't actually wrestle. He can throw some punches, toss Vince around, and lock in a Sharpshooter. He can't take shots to the head, he shouldn't be taking any bumps at all, and hasn't wrestled a match in nearly a decade.
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
    If you have a DVR and also watch Raw, do you watch it live or delayed?
Almost always delayed. Raw is usually unwatchable without the handy fast-forward button.
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    I was kind of uncomfortable watching Bret, because he wasn't really that sharp or able to jump right back into the cadences of pro wrestling TV.
I disagree! Bret was never a great talker, and now he's a stroke victim who's been off live TV for 10 years. He far exceeded my expectations. Maybe I was just easily impressed that he was on the "WWE Universe" train like a champ, whereas I was expecting him to call it "the WWF" all night long.

In general, it's hard for me to say whether last night's Raw was actually any good. I was marking out so hard for a Monday night war, Bret's return, TNA surprises, etc., that I'm not sure I can really be objective, especially when Bret stands as my favourite wrestler ever. I loved the segments with Shawn and with Vince, and enjoyed that I could flip over to a very newsworthy (if terrible) episode of Impact whenever Raw got dull.



JK: LJ, FB, T
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 day
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.57
Is it just me, or did Bret look better when he came out later in the show. Not sure what they did, but I agree he looked like Ozzy in the opening segment. If anyone saw the movie Anvil, Bret reminded me of one of those skeezy former metalheads. If Bret and Shawn were miraculously able to have a match, let’s hope it is Loser gets a haircut match.

Either way, the Bret/Shawn segment gave me chills, to see those 2 face off after all this time was truly the one moment I never thought I would see. Not after 12 years. Most of us already say Bret shaking Vince’s hand back when they released his DVD set, so that was anti climactic.

As far as the rest of the show, it was so so. Orton beating Kofi again, HHH beating Jericho again.





"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by The Game
    At the end of the show, Vince tried not to have Bret come out but to everyone's delight, The Hitman made his way down the ramp. Now here is the thing that boggles my mind........

    At the very end, it would seem that Bret would be 2 for 2 in bringing closure to the Montreal Screwjob. However, Vince at the end kicks Bret to leave him laying on the floor in the ring and it's no wonder why people never leave the screwjob alone.

    Does Vince ever want to try to heal this incident? Fans are still going to be talking about this for the next 20 years at least. I guess from a business perspective, it gains Vince and the WWE more attention but still it would be a little more proper to actually try to do some damage control to what happened more than a decade ago.

You do realize the conclusion to the Bret Hart storyline is most likely going to be Bret locking Vince in the Sharpshooter at Wrestlemania, right?



i before e
Chorizo








Since: 17.10.03

Since last post: 1211 days
Last activity: 1 day
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.61
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker

    Holy crap, Miz IS awesome. Not only does he stand out on the mic, but he doesn't dress like Cena or Vince. Love than theme too.


I'm not singling you out by quoting you, but I just cant wrap my brain around all the Miz love. To me the guy brings noting special to the table. Especially when you consider that his lines are pre-scripted, I dont see how his mic skills are considered to be so great. The few times in the past when he's had to improvise lines, it always comes off mediocre (to me anyway). I feel like any worker could be put into Miz's spot and have similar success(or greater).

    Originally posted by SchippeWreck
    The most amusing thing of the whole night was Shawn's line (paraphrased) "I have changed a lot in the last 12 years."

    ...says the guy using the exact same gimmick he was using the last time he faced Bret 12 years ago.

Ha!

    Originally posted by kentish
    Is it just me, or did Bret look better when he came out later in the show. Not sure what they did, but I agree he looked like Ozzy in the opening segment. If anyone saw the movie Anvil, Bret reminded me of one of those skeezy former metalheads. If Bret and Shawn were miraculously able to have a match, let’s hope it is Loser gets a haircut match.



Double HA! Bret so reminded me of a dude who used to hang out at the old metal shows in my neighborhood back when I was in high school. Seeing Shawn and Bret there, made me a little sad for them. Life has surely taken a big toll on both men.

    Originally posted by KJames199

    In general, it's hard for me to say whether last night's Raw was actually any good. I was marking out so hard for a Monday night war, Bret's return, TNA surprises, etc., that I'm not sure I can really be objective, especially when Bret stands as my favourite wrestler ever. I loved the segments with Shawn and with Vince, and enjoyed that I could flip over to a very newsworthy (if terrible) episode of Impact whenever Raw got dull.


And that was the great thing about last night. Having that alternative show to flip to made the whole evening so much more enjoyable.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
Last activity: 12 min.
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.71
    Originally posted by i before e

    I'm not singling you out by quoting you, but I just cant wrap my brain around all the Miz love. To me the guy brings noting special to the table. Especially when you consider that his lines are pre-scripted, I dont see how his mic skills are considered to be so great. The few times in the past when he's had to improvise lines, it always comes off mediocre (to me anyway). I feel like any worker could be put into Miz's spot and have similar success(or greater).


Miz is credible. He seems to have extended/embellished his own persona instead of performing a character/gimmick. If he is totally working off a script, he's doing it better than a lot of other guys working off that script. He seems wholly comfortable onscreen, and that's a trait a lot of midcarders don't learn.

Again I cite his wardrobe. I miss his old ring attire. It was distinctive. It extended the main-event jean shorts look (Austin, Cena) but it was a hipper style. His walking-around clothes last night deviated from the shiny, crisp look every heel seems to wear.

Dude won me over. Sounded like most of the audience yelled "awesome" instead of "awful" last night.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Tyler Durden
Frankfurter








Since: 22.2.04
From: Frankfurt, Germany

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.00
Wow, I can't believe how great Bret looked and how great the first segment turned out! I mean, this man had a stroke only a few years ago and now this! I met him in Munich/Germany in ... I think ... 2006 at an autograph signing and he could barely talk. We weren't even aloud to take pictures, because the flashlights would have caused him a headache! His hair was all white and he looked older and worse than Ozzy Osborne! (I don't mean to be disrespectful, but these are facts!) Now on Raw he looked great and his promos were strong and powerful! I really liked what I saw! I'm so glad for him! I hope he enjoyed his comeback (especially the celebration after RAW went of the air)!

And then there was Impact ...... I don't know what to say! Jeff Hardy and Ric Flair are with TNA now? Why? Flair had the greatest send off OF ALL TIME and now this? For what? And Jeff Hardy? WWE pushed him to the moon, despite of all of his faults and problems ... and this is how he thanks it? F**k them both! I really hate unthankful people like that! And no, I don't care about the lighter scedule or the amount of money TNA is able or willing to pay them.



Yes, I'm back! I know, I said I would never ever watch that crap again, but ... I just can't live without it, I guess.
Kevintripod
Andouille








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 26 min.
AIM:  
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.72
    Originally posted by kentish
    Is it just me, or did Bret look better when he came out later in the show.


I think maybe it was because his hair was a little drier and not as wet at the end of the show.

Also mark me down as being a big fan of the Miz.



The best part of waking up is not Folgers in your cup, but knowing that Chuck Norris didn't kill you in your sleep.
rv581
Goetta








Since: 2.12.02

Since last post: 1293 days
Last activity: 463 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.36
    Originally posted by Tyler Durden
    Jeff Hardy and Ric Flair are with TNA now? Why? Flair had the greatest send off OF ALL TIME and now this? For what? And Jeff Hardy? WWE pushed him to the moon, despite of all of his faults and problems ... and this is how he thanks it? F**k them both! I really hate unthankful people like that! And no, I don't care about the lighter scedule or the amount of money TNA is able or willing to pay them.


Ric Flair is a professional wrestler. He lives in the real world, where money is kinda important.

If the WWE decides it's no longer in their best interest to utilize him -- and TNA does -- I have ZERO problem with Flair earning a paycheck.



"Who ate my sandwich???"
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 22 min.
AIM:  
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by rv581
      Originally posted by Tyler Durden
      Jeff Hardy and Ric Flair are with TNA now? Why? Flair had the greatest send off OF ALL TIME and now this? For what? And Jeff Hardy? WWE pushed him to the moon, despite of all of his faults and problems ... and this is how he thanks it? F**k them both! I really hate unthankful people like that! And no, I don't care about the lighter scedule or the amount of money TNA is able or willing to pay them.


    Ric Flair is a professional wrestler. He lives in the real world, where money is kinda important.

    If the WWE decides it's no longer in their best interest to utilize him -- and TNA does -- I have ZERO problem with Flair earning a paycheck.

If there's anything we have learned about Ric Flair it is that living in the real world is a kind of foreign concept to him.



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 2 hours
Last activity: 1 min.
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.39
    Originally posted by Quezzy
    Wow. I can't believe anybody enjoyed that. I don't know how it's possible to make Bret/HBK/Vince so boring. That was botched worse than the Invasion angle.


I agree this was about as underwhelming as it possibly could be, maybe not Invasion bad but pretty bad considering it is their last real trump card. I wanted to like it. I wanted to be into it, but it was just kind of there. Michaels/Hart making up in the ring could have been Tyson/Holyfield on Oprah's couch. Just not exciting tv. This would have been a lot more fun in Canada.
SchippeWreck
Banger








Since: 26.3.03
From: Glendale, CA

Since last post: 23 hours
Last activity: 15 min.
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.69
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      Originally posted by Quezzy
      Wow. I can't believe anybody enjoyed that. I don't know how it's possible to make Bret/HBK/Vince so boring. That was botched worse than the Invasion angle.


    I agree this was about as underwhelming as it possibly could be, maybe not Invasion bad but pretty bad considering it is their last real trump card. I wanted to like it. I wanted to be into it, but it was just kind of there. Michaels/Hart making up in the ring could have been Tyson/Holyfield on Oprah's couch. Just not exciting tv. This would have been a lot more fun in Canada.

The opening segment was just fine. The excitement came from Bret and Shawn simply occupying the same space at the same time. They did tease violence when the two of them moved into perfect Sweet Chin Music position, but it was so obvious (and/or clumsy), that there wasn't any drama behind it.



"It's magic! We don't need to explain it!"
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 289 days
Last activity: 289 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.87
    Originally posted by spf
      Originally posted by rv581
        Originally posted by Tyler Durden
        Jeff Hardy and Ric Flair are with TNA now? Why? Flair had the greatest send off OF ALL TIME and now this? For what? And Jeff Hardy? WWE pushed him to the moon, despite of all of his faults and problems ... and this is how he thanks it? F**k them both! I really hate unthankful people like that! And no, I don't care about the lighter scedule or the amount of money TNA is able or willing to pay them.


      Ric Flair is a professional wrestler. He lives in the real world, where money is kinda important.

      If the WWE decides it's no longer in their best interest to utilize him -- and TNA does -- I have ZERO problem with Flair earning a paycheck.

    If there's anything we have learned about Ric Flair it is that living in the real world is a kind of foreign concept to him.





Alimony is real world. Plus, deep down, everyone should have realized Flair is going to wrestle until the day he dies. Only surprise was he stayed out of the ring for a year and a half.
Kevintripod
Andouille








Since: 11.5.03
From: Mount Pleasant, Pa.

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 26 min.
AIM:  
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.72
To all the people who were disappointed with the Bret/HBK confrontation and say the WWE screwed it up almost as bad as the Invasion angle, I'm curious on what they were wanting/expecting to see?

Bret can't wrestle folks or he might die.

Were people wanting Bret to just beat the shit out of HBK with a chair, put him in a sharpshooter until Michaels passed out and then just walk away leaving the feud and hatred to go on forever without it ever being settled?

Also I can obviously see why they couldn't have done that show in Canada. The boos would have rained down like crazy with Bret making up with HBK. It would have completely ruined the moment.







The best part of waking up is not Folgers in your cup, but knowing that Chuck Norris didn't kill you in your sleep.
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 13 hours
Last activity: 8 min.
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.44
    Originally posted by KJames199
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      I was kind of uncomfortable watching Bret, because he wasn't really that sharp or able to jump right back into the cadences of pro wrestling TV.
    I disagree! Bret was never a great talker, and now he's a stroke victim who's been off live TV for 10 years. He far exceeded my expectations. Maybe I was just easily impressed that he was on the "WWE Universe" train like a champ, whereas I was expecting him to call it "the WWF" all night long.


I watched it again and you are the one who is the right one. Bret did have good delivery. I must've been too nervous for him to notice. Or distracted by his gray roots.
ladygypsy
Braunschweiger








Since: 24.6.02
From: South Jersey

Since last post: 1561 days
Last activity: 1561 days
#39 Posted on
    Originally posted by i before e
    Seeing Shawn and Bret there, made me a little sad for them. Life has surely taken a big toll on both men.



Oh my gosh, hasn't it?

Last night was the first RAW I've watched in six or seven years. I was HUGE into the WWF for many years (from back when Vince was the announcer and I had no clue he owned it all) , but I quit it all when it became the McMahon Family Variety Show. I got tired of Vince meddling, Stephanie whining, Linda being stern and Shane taking up precious PPV time so he can jump off of scaffolds.

Anyway, my mother (!) called me last night to tell me to please turn it on. (She and my brother still follow.)

It was really cool seeing Bret and Shawn burying the hatchet...worn men who used to be golden boys. I smiled. I laughed. I watched the whole episode and enjoyed it thoroughly even though I didn't know many of the players.

Then Vince kicked Bret at the end and reminded me why I quit watching in the first place. I was SO CLOSE to considering watching RAW (or at least recording it) next week. Is it still really the Vince show? Is he still playing the evil CEO role?

I mean, if they were TRYING to win back people like me who waxed nostalgic about it all, why pull that punky stunt at the end and piss us off?

Anyway, I had to vent and remembered this forum and figured you'd all understand. :)
JayJayDean
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: Seattle, WA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 1 hour
AIM:  
Y!:
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.00
    Originally posted by KJames199
    whereas I was expecting him to call it "the WWF" all night long.


I would've marked out for that.



Holy fuck shit motherfucker shit. Read comics. Fuck shit shit fuck shit I sold out when I did my job. Fuck fuck fuck shit fuck. Sorry had to do it....

*snip*

Revenge of the Sith = one thumb up from me. Fuck shit. I want to tittie fuck your ass.
-- The Guinness. to Cerebus
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Started running scenarios through my head on how RAW would be booked, based on the current storylines. With HHH- Goldberg set for the Survivor Series, people are already talking about HHH regaining the belt.
- MightyBastard, Speculation for the RAW World Title (2003)
Related threads: Melina Injured - RAW #866 12/28/09 - RAW #865 12/21/09 - More...
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