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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #840 6/29/09 (Page 2)
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kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 29 days
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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
I can't remember a time when when I turned Raw off in disgust 3 times like I did last night. Once when HHH squashed MVP, then after Cena beat Miz again, and 3rd when Mark Henry walked out. At least after that 3rd time, I didn't turn it back on like I did the first 2 times, being the addict that I am.

I think I will tune in next week for HHH-Cena, just so I can see one of them lose. Unless they are setting up a 3 way match for the PPV. Oh, crap.

Until the bring back HBK, they are making it easier to beat my addiction and not watch Raw. The cure is Smackdown.




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
lotjx
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Since: 5.9.08

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.43
It is amazing how Raw has pretty much sucked since the last draft. Then, they go back tonight to get more talent on Raw by harvesting the ECW and Smackdown talent, yet the show still sucked. The real problem for Raw is HHH, Cena and Orton. More so with the HHH/Orton feud being dragged out this long. This feud had better end at Night of Champions, because SummerSlam needs some buys besides Taker coming back. Cena has failed as far as I am concerned as a wrestler. Part of being a wrestler is making your opponent look good too. Cena has become the worst of Bret Hart, Hogan and HHH. He has five moves of doom, the no-sell trait and seems more then content to devalue his fellow workers. I am also tired of the excuse that Vince tells him what to do. He has enough stroke in the company by now to have input in his matches. If he doesn't know that someone should tell him, but I get the feeling he is more of a willing accomplice then some dope.
Tenken347
Boudin blanc








Since: 27.2.03
From: Parts Unknown

Since last post: 1 day
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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.03
The roster changes are...interesting. ECW did need some talent shuffled around. Swagger was definitely ready for his call up (although I agree with everybody saying his debut didn't do him any help getting over on RAW). The Hart Dynasty, also ready for call up, and Smackdown definitely the place for them. Bourne I would have either let season a little longer, or had him moved to Smackdown, where he could either wrestle or tag with Rey Mysterio. They've done some pretty good work together in the past. Finley's also a guy I would have left in ECW, but replacing him with Regal's not a bad idea at all. Goldust is going to be a good midcard veteran to work with the new talent (and I certainly hope they're ready to call up some more guys, this switch pretty much depleted all the fresh talent on ECW), and Shelton will probably be ECW champ before the end of the year. Moving Matt Hardy back to Smackdown three months after they moved him to RAW in the first place is certainly weird, but he never belonged on RAW and I couldn't be more pleased to see him going back. The only possible problem I have with the move is that I hope they don't go right back to the Hardy Boys feud, which is really pretty played out at this point. Give him something reasonably fresh.
Hokienautic
Toulouse








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 2 days
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#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.38
    Originally posted by lotjx
    Cena has failed as far as I am concerned as a wrestler. Part of being a wrestler is making your opponent look good too. Cena has become the worst of Bret Hart, Hogan and HHH. He has five moves of doom, the no-sell trait and seems more then content to devalue his fellow workers. I am also tired of the excuse that Vince tells him what to do. He has enough stroke in the company by now to have input in his matches. If he doesn't know that someone should tell him, but I get the feeling he is more of a willing accomplice then some dope.



Yeah, he really made The Miz look horrible last night. What was he thinking??
Oliver
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Since: 20.6.02
From: Kolob

Since last post: 11 days
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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.30
While I think it's an interesting idea turning Mark Henry babyface, I think that Jack Swagger has more charisma and could do more.

Though, I think the entire handshake and self-countout was brilliant: he's making friends, not making enemies. Ya never know, if DiBiase ends up leaving Legacy, maybe Swagger would join? He's not the offspring of a former wrestler, but he is a former amateur wrestler.

Probably a good thing Swagger wasn't drafted to Smackdown; we'd hear JR talking about Jack being from Oklahoma frequently every time he's on TV.

I hate the WWE for booking the Cena/Miz angle the way they did. Who did the Miz piss off to deserve that treatment? Did he fail a wellness policy test or something? He has the look, charisma, and he's not too bad in the ring, surely he could have at least had one up on Cena.



Go Bluebombers!
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
Jack Swagger only fights those fights Jack Swagger wants to fight. He's not going to fight Randy Orton, in a non-title match, just to make Batista and the fans happy. Besides, he likes Randy Orton, they're cut from the same cloth, so why would he beat him up just because all the people want it? After all, there's plenty of people on Raw Jack Swagger doesn't respect. People like (insert Swagger's first Raw feud opponent here).

There's your explanation and build.


Also, two months after this thread (The W) I think we can say that MVP's push has not exactly been what folks thought it would become. Good to say a beaten, one-legged HHH can still squash him in under 5 minutes. Though I'd say the crowds over the last few weeks should be nicely working to move him back to heel status.



2007 and 2008 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.18
Dear Cole and Lawler,

If you can't recognize the world champion's finisher, you need to step aside.

Orton RKO'd Bourne from the ropes. It was not a running/flying bulldog. Notice the audience's reaction. They don't yell like that for a bulldog.

Yours in Cringing,
Matt Tracker, Esq.




"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
hayden
Salami








Since: 11.1.05

Since last post: 222 days
Last activity: 204 days
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
    Originally posted by spf
    Jack Swagger only fights those fights Jack Swagger wants to fight. He's not going to fight Randy Orton, in a non-title match, just to make Batista and the fans happy. Besides, he likes Randy Orton, they're cut from the same cloth, so why would he beat him up just because all the people want it? After all, there's plenty of people on Raw Jack Swagger doesn't respect. People like (insert Swagger's first Raw feud opponent here).

    There's your explanation and build.


Also, I think it's worth noting that Swagger calmly gave him a hard takedown/slam before stepping to the apron for the count-out. It seemed to me that he wanted to show Orton that he could take him out if he wanted to before stepping aside.
Hokienautic
Toulouse








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 2 days
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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.38
    Originally posted by hayden
      Originally posted by spf
      Jack Swagger only fights those fights Jack Swagger wants to fight. He's not going to fight Randy Orton, in a non-title match, just to make Batista and the fans happy. Besides, he likes Randy Orton, they're cut from the same cloth, so why would he beat him up just because all the people want it? After all, there's plenty of people on Raw Jack Swagger doesn't respect. People like (insert Swagger's first Raw feud opponent here).

      There's your explanation and build.


    Also, I think it's worth noting that Swagger calmly gave him a hard takedown/slam before stepping to the apron for the count-out. It seemed to me that he wanted to show Orton that he could take him out if he wanted to before stepping aside.


I was waiting for "Everybody's Got a Price" to come out of the speakers and The Million Dollar Man to pop out and say he was there early to announce next week's second main event (after HHH/Cena) and decided to spread some cash around after his son asked his advice. Ah well. Could have even been part of the rumored TD Jr turn, if Randy bitched about it and said, "I don't need your dad, and I don't even need you."
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

Since last post: 35 days
Last activity: 4 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.03
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    They couldn't move a couple more guys doing nothing to ECW? Are there more new guys ready for them to call up already? The ECW GM just traded all it's top young talent for Regal and Benjamin? Isn't that about as bad as the Gasol trade?

    (edited by BigDaddyLoco on 30.6.09 0543)


You make a good point. I mean, it was already obvious that ECW had gotten hosed, but I didn't think about what this means in terms of the GM. Tiffany has, at least in what little I've seen of her since I don't watch that regularly, been shown as a pretty good, smart GM. (Incidentally, she's also the ONLY authority figure in all of wrestling who ever uses a pronoun when making a match. Meaning, she will actually say "at (name of PPV), you will be facing Joe Opponent" rather than "at (name of PPV), it's going to be Frank Wrestleriamtalkingtoo against Joe Opponent". Can't tell you how muh I appreciate that.) But unless they pull out one hell of an explanation tonight, she has turned into a huge idiot. We're to believe that she traded Bourne, Henry, Swagger, Finlay, and the entire Hart Foundation 2.0 for Regal, Benjamin, Goldust and the Bella Twins. At least if the two main eventers left standing were heels, they could have her turn heel and pass it off as her wanting to clear a path for them. But you can't sell that a face GM traded all the prominent heels so that Christian and Dreamer would have an easier time, can you? Maybe they'll say she's trying to stamp out cheating in her brand (but why get Benjamin), but even that's pretty lame. Hopefully Trump gave her something good. B^)






Psycho Penguin
Liverwurst








Since: 24.6.07
From: Greenacres FL

Since last post: 1534 days
Last activity: 1529 days
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Y!:
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.73
Yeah, I seriously just realized ECW lost Finlay, Swagger, Bourne, Henry, and the Hart Dynasty and got back Shelton, Regal, the Bellas, and Goldust in return. A GM in a major sport would immediately get fired for doing a trade like that.

Oh, and yeah, about the running bulldog call in the main event, WTF was that? How could they BOTH miss it? It was clearly a RKO off the top rope which was COOLER than a damn bulldog.



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JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 hour
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.32
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    They couldn't move a couple more guys doing nothing to ECW? Are there more new guys ready for them to call up already? The ECW GM just traded all it's top young talent for Regal and Benjamin? Isn't that about as bad as the Gasol trade?


Tiffany is shedding salary to bring Lebron to the Land of Extreme.

    Originally posted by spf
    Also, two months after this thread (The W) I think we can say that MVP's push has not exactly been what folks thought it would become.


Front and center wrong on that one. What happened? It's like they only loved him for his Sherri Shepherd.

    Originally posted by lotjx
    Cena has failed as far as I am concerned as a wrestler. Part of being a wrestler is making your opponent look good too.


Miz dominated the entire match...?
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 29 days
Last activity: 1 day
#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.64
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
      Originally posted by lotjx
      Cena has failed as far as I am concerned as a wrestler. Part of being a wrestler is making your opponent look good too. Cena has become the worst of Bret Hart, Hogan and HHH. He has five moves of doom, the no-sell trait and seems more then content to devalue his fellow workers. I am also tired of the excuse that Vince tells him what to do. He has enough stroke in the company by now to have input in his matches. If he doesn't know that someone should tell him, but I get the feeling he is more of a willing accomplice then some dope.



    Yeah, he really made The Miz look horrible last night. What was he thinking??

It's not Cena's job to make new stars, that falls on Vince and his staff. I doubt many top guys, past or present would say "No, I think I would rather do the job". I don't like the booking, but the blame doesn't fall on Cena.

Speaking of blaming the bookers, do we go ahead and add MVP and Miz to the list of guys who seemed like they were on the verge of breaking out over the last 2-3 years, to being guys we might not be surprised were future endeavored? Guys like Santino, Matt Hardy, Carlito, Kendrick, Kennedy, etc. Compare the list of guys who have become stars over the last few years to guys who have been wasted. Actually, has there even been a breakout guy in the last few years? Jeff Hardy, maybe, but he was already quite a star already, albeit not a main event guy. Punk is still not quite there. If he was, Morrison would have gotten his “biggest win ever’ against Edge 2 weeks ago, and not against the World Champ Punk, who Morrison has already beaten half a dozen times in ECW.





"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
BigDaddyLoco
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02

Since last post: 56 min.
Last activity: 56 min.
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.21
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
      They couldn't move a couple more guys doing nothing to ECW? Are there more new guys ready for them to call up already? The ECW GM just traded all it's top young talent for Regal and Benjamin? Isn't that about as bad as the Gasol trade?


    Tiffany is shedding salary to bring Lebron to the Land of Extreme.





Okay, that was funny ... but a little sad that it's the only explanation that makes any sense.


    Speaking of blaming the bookers, do we go ahead and add MVP and Miz to the list of guys who seemed like they were on the verge of breaking out over the last 2-3 years, to being guys we might not be surprised were future endeavored? Guys like Santino, Matt Hardy, Carlito, Kendrick, Kennedy, etc.


Those are mostlty terrible examples. Carlito never got any better and actually got worse. Kennedy was a one trick pony. Santino is Santino. Kendrick has backstage heat or something, and Matt Hardy's last good run was with the Version 1.0 gimmick, that had it's legs cut out from under it, but really the guy has been average at best the last few years and really is just midcard filler at this point in his career.

I'm actually starting to question how good MVP even is. Is he better than Shelton Benjamin? Not in the ring. MVP only seems to bring his A game when working with a top worker, which makes me wonder if he is just a good dance partner. It doesn't help that his gimmick doesn't make a whole lot of sense anymore.


The Miz has a lot of potential to sell shirts and be a pain in Main Eventers asses, but he really could use some flunkies or something. Or he might just need to be the Stevie Richards to somebody's Raven. Then again the Miz has gone further than anyone could have imagined, hopefully he can avoid becoming the next Spirit Squad/Eugene.



(edited by BigDaddyLoco on 30.6.09 1612)
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.72
    Originally posted by BigDaddyLoco
    Matt Hardy's last good run was with the Version 1.0 gimmick, that had it's legs cut out from under it, but really the guy has been average at best the last few years and really is just midcard filler at this point in his career.


Did you see Hardy's work with MVP on Smackdown a year or two back when they were feuding? Hardy carried that brand with his long matches (back when they usually only had one or two long matches per show) for months.
Mr. Boffo
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Since: 24.3.02
From: Oshkosh, WI

Since last post: 510 days
Last activity: 471 days
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.24
    Originally posted by kentish

    It's not Cena's job to make new stars, that falls on Vince and his staff. I doubt many top guys, past or present would say "No, I think I would rather do the job". I don't like the booking, but the blame doesn't fall on Cena.



Jericho has before (against Michaels). Yet another reason why Jericho is awesome.
Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 17 days
Last activity: 12 hours
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.49
    Originally posted by Mr. Boffo
      Originally posted by kentish

      It's not Cena's job to make new stars, that falls on Vince and his staff. I doubt many top guys, past or present would say "No, I think I would rather do the job". I don't like the booking, but the blame doesn't fall on Cena.



    Jericho has before (against Michaels). Yet another reason why Jericho is awesome.


Not that he was a top guy, but Lance Storm would do the same. Hell, if putting a guy over advances a storyline and leads up to another PPV match and a big payday, why the hell not? Cena could lose to Miz 5 times clean in a row and STILL be taken seriously as a viable title threat/holder. Cena, HHH and HBK (and UT) are the few on the roster who could get into LONG losing streaks and STILL win the title any night. If anything, the fans that boo those guys would probably cheer their eventual win.

Miz/Cena should have played out like in WCW when Jericho had a plan vs. Goldberg where, like Miz, he taunted Goldberg for weeks, finally got a reaction, got a cheap win or two on TV and then got DESTROYED at the next PPV. But Goldberg did not want any of that (as well as WCW). Had they done that with Miz and Cena, the place would have ERUPTED when Cena would have eventually crushed Miz and at the same time would have moved Miz up to IC/lower upper card level.

But alas.....



Life is hilariously cruel.

JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 3 days
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#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.32
I think Cena/Miz played out exactly how Jericho wished that his deal with Goldberg would have.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 15 hours
#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.07
    Originally posted by kentish

    It's not Cena's job to make new stars, that falls on Vince and his staff. I doubt many top guys, past or present would say "No, I think I would rather do the job". I don't like the booking, but the blame doesn't fall on Cena.




I believe THE ROCK put just about every guy over who ever stepped into the ring with him, and made them look pretty damn good as well. No reason at all Cena can't do the same.

timdrake
Polska kielbasa








Since: 17.3.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 123 days
Last activity: 17 hours
#40 Posted on
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    I think Cena/Miz played out exactly how Jericho wished that his deal with Goldberg would have.


Exactly. I remembered Jericho saying the plan was always for Goldberg to destroy him in about a minute and this interview seems to back that up:

WWE.com: You’ve never wrestled him one on one?

Jericho: No. I’ve never wrestled him ever. One on one, tag team, whatever it was. I wanted to wrestle him. We started this angle (in WCW) on a whim, as kind of like a joke, and it became something that people wanted to see. I was calling him “Greenberg” at the time, because he was just starting out. And I always claimed victories over him whenever I escaped. It got to the point where I would always have a shirt that said, “Jericho 1, Greenberg 0.” And then when I “beat” him again, it would be “Jericho 2, Greenberg 0” and then “Jericho 3, Greenberg 0.” People had signs in the crowd counting along with me. People wanted to see him kick my ass, and that’s what I wanted him to do. This was when he was in the middle of his winning streak, and the office wanted to end this in a two-minute squash match, as we call them, with him just spearing me and jackhammering me. I refused to do it because people wanted to see this match, and they were going to pay for it. I wanted to have a match on a pay-per-view, and he could kick the s*** out of me in a minute if that’s what they wanted, but at least people would be paying to see it – not seeing it on free TV as just another guy that was part of his streak. It was never a problem with losing to Bill – in being speared and jackhammered – that’s what I wanted to do. But I wanted people to pay to see it, because I knew that they would, because I could tell by the reactions we were getting doing this angle. And that was basically one of the reasons why I left WCW. Actually, that was the catalyst for me to leave because I realized if they weren’t going to go with that, they were never going to go with anything that I had. Because that was a hot angle that people were into. If they weren’t going to go with it, it was probably best for me just to move on.



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Plus, I'm fairly certain that Feinstein getting caught was a stunt orchestrated by either a website or a news station looking to drum up ratings for sweeps.
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