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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #812 12/15/08 (Page 4)
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kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 8 days
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#61 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.72
    Originally posted by GodEatGod
    If it's leading up to a Wrestlemania match between the two, I'd say have Shawn get under JBL's skin and taunt him until he makes the match career vs. fortune. It's a ridiculous stip, sure, but no more so than some. Then, when HBK wins, you get a storyline coming out of Wrestlemania of bitter JBL having been "robbed" of his fortune and taking it out on everyone and Shawn's money problems are taken care of and don't have to come up again.

    Sadly, I think we're more likely to see Undertaker-Kozlov at Wrestlemania than UT-HBK.


I have heard a lot more speculation about HHH-Undertaker than HBK-Undertaker. HHH has exhausted his feuds with Hardy and Edge, I think, so what else is there for HHH to do that is near main event level (which is where he will be on the card)?




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
CajunMan
Boudin blanc
No longer registered








Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

Since last post: 1038 days
Last activity: 175 days
#62 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.71
    Originally posted by Super Shane Spear
    "It amazes me when people don't like a discussion here, but always want to comment about it. I wouldn't go up to someone I don't know at a bar and make fun of their conversation. I see plenty of threads here that I think are odd, but I just stop reading the thread."

    I never said a word about discussion as a whole. MY gripe is with people who refuse to think for themselves and have a need to have everything spoon-fed to them. Of course Shawn Michaels is not going to air his dirty laundry on global television. I'm pretty sure we all understand that the sad sack is going to be ok and sweet kickin' by Wrestlemania. Maybe I put this board on a pedestal I shouldn't, but anybody who thinks that this or ANYTHING on WWE television is real and legitimate shouldn't be here in the first place. So what I am encouraging is second level thinking. Lawler actually pointing out how the happy-go-lucky DX commercials were filmed beforehand was a perfect example of this. So to go back to what I was originally saying, naturally this is no more real than Snitsky crushing a baby. But we know that. So instead of crushing a two-week old storyline for being "unbelievable" why not provide constructive criticism like Cubs or Z?

    Bonus coverage: Also, your metaphor is terrible because this isn't "some bar" where I don't know you or what you are talking about. I've known the good majority of you for over six years, so I feel comfortable enough with most of you to point out when you're acting dumb.

    Frankly I've hit my quota for this DAY, let alone this thread so before you make another full post about how I choose to discuss things, read this or one of the other two posts and pretend I repeated it until you "Get it."

    (edited by Super Shane Spear on 16.12.08 1759)


Okay Lawler's explanation after the DX commercial was very Schiavone like, and if you think I'm going to believe what Cole says, It was weak way of giving a disclaimer. Even Bischoff did a better way of a disclaimer with the NWO Segments back in the Nitro days. Other than that its just a storyline.
Big Bad
Scrapple








Since: 4.1.02
From: Dorchester, Ontario

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#63 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.62
HBK is JBL's bitch for a few months, leading to Wrestlemania when the two of them are in the Money in the Bank match. HBK helps to clear the ring of the other 5-6 guys, leaving JBL about to grab the briefcase, before Michaels finally has enough of JBL's crap and superkicks him to take the briefcase himself. This leads to a match at Backlash where Michaels puts the case up against, say, $2 of JBL's money. It will literally be a Money In The Bank match.

This leads to a new era of literal gimmick matches. The main event for Summerslam is Khali vs. Jeff Hardy in an actual prison in New Delhi.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#64 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.67
I hope this leads to segments like when Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin and Precious had to wash the Von Erich dogs, dig fence posts and what not. HBK washing a big nasty dog? GOLD!
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#65 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
Is it too much to ask that Shawn defend the Mamajuana Championship? Or to be the new product pitchman the way Sable worked for Vince?



(edited by Matt Tracker on 17.12.08 1210)


"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#66 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    I hope this leads to segments like when Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin and Precious had to wash the Von Erich dogs, dig fence posts and what not. HBK washing a big nasty dog? GOLD!

That would salvage the angle for me. I would rescind all prior criticism.



2007 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1926 days
Last activity: 1860 days
#67 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Jericho could, nay SHOULD, be Taker's WM opponent.



"And here...we...go."
InVerse
Bierwurst








Since: 26.8.02

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#68 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.00
It strikes me as odd that a lot of people (not just here) are complaining that it's unrealistic that HBK is worried about how much time he has left in wrestling. Isn't this the same HBK that, just a few years ago, people were legitimately concerned might receive a career ending injury with every single bump he took?

I'm also not seeing why people have such trouble buying that HBK could go broke so suddenly. Thanks to Bernie Madoff, people (and companies/charities) who have made far more money than HBK could ever dream of found out they were broke over night. Or is it that hard to believe that Marty Jannetty got ahold of HBK's credit card and ran up a $20mil cocaine bill?

As far as how to end the angle, as several people have already suggested, you simply have JBL get so pissed off that he puts up a substantial sum of cash versus HBK's career. Alternatively, HBK could hire Joey Styles as his new bodyguard and force JBL to pay protection money.

Reading through various analyses of this angle, it occurs to me that WWE Creative could apparently be far less creative.

As for Undertaker, I propose that they pit him in a handicap match against every single member of the roster who doesn't already have a Wrestlemania match. Then they can all get a Wrestlemania payday and 'Taker can increase his Wrestlemania record to 100-0.

(edited by InVerse on 18.12.08 2007)
djp
Morcilla








Since: 16.2.07
From: 3rd Floor, NW window

Since last post: 68 days
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#69 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.54
    Originally posted by InVerse


    As for Undertaker, I propose that they pit him in a handicap match against every single member of the roster who doesn't already have a Wrestlemania match. Then they can all get a Wrestlemania payday and 'Taker can increase his Wrestlemania record to 100-0.

    (edited by InVerse on 18.12.08 2007)


I was thinking the same thing just the other day, except in a gauntet match. He could go from 15-0 to 20-0 in 10 minutes.

As for HBK, it's hard to know if he is showing signs of slowing down or just playing up the injuries for better storytelling. He talks often about the knees and the back which leads me to believe that he's in constant pain, but perhaps that is all part of selling the character. I mean, we *know* he's had these injuries, but he's still wrestling. Of course I was convinced a few years ago that he was retired for good when he had his 'retirement' match. I guess there's a lot of grey area that plays into their favor where a guy can use the legit injures to enhance a story and at the same time make it impossible to know how they are feeling in reality. It keeps me guessing anyway.
John Orquiola
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Since: 28.2.02
From: Boston

Since last post: 55 days
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#70 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.78
    Originally posted by djp
      Originally posted by InVerse


      As for Undertaker, I propose that they pit him in a handicap match against every single member of the roster who doesn't already have a Wrestlemania match. Then they can all get a Wrestlemania payday and 'Taker can increase his Wrestlemania record to 100-0.

      (edited by InVerse on 18.12.08 2007)


    I was thinking the same thing just the other day, except in a gauntet match. He could go from 15-0 to 20-0 in 10 minutes.




I may be mistaken, but I don't think a gauntlet match works that way. Regardless of the number of opponents in a gauntlet match, it's still considered one match. Gauntlet match, not gauntlet matches. So even if Undertaker were to beat ten guys, it's still one gauntlet match. Which means 17-0.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#71 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
Noted smark Lance Storm weighs in with his thoughts on the JBL/HBK angle (stormwrestling.com). To sum it up:

    Originally posted by Lance Storm
    Iíve been trying to make sense out of the JBL Ė HBK angle and for the life of me I just canít.






2007 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 20 hours
#72 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.72
    Originally posted by spf
    Noted smark Lance Storm weighs in with his thoughts on the JBL/HBK angle (stormwrestling.com). To sum it up:

      Originally posted by Lance Storm
      Iíve been trying to make sense out of the JBL Ė HBK angle and for the life of me I just canít.





Thank you, Lance. This has been my problem from the beginning, that Shawn is still making TONS of money every week. Since this thread started, he has probably made more money than a lot of us do in a year. That makes it much easier to bounce back. Also, his best friend HHH is loaded, why not ask him for a loan?

Now if they had played this as an injury angle, where Shawn couldn't wrestle for a few months, and had to take a massive pay cut, then it would be more believable.




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
Excalibur05
Knackwurst








Since: 19.1.02
From: Minnesota

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#73 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.17
I poke a lot of fun at it in the Satire, but I really don't understand why this angle is so hard to grasp.

How many people have we heard of over the past few years that made millions as a wrestler/actor/athlete/whatever and squandered it away to nothing? I mean, look at a guy like Flair even, a guy who was collecting a decent paycheck for thiry years, but still came out of his career over $100,000 in debt. And I think it's entirely believable (as was suggested by his Armageddon promo) that he's the type of guy who would succumb to a sort of MC Hammer trap, where he feels he needs to use his wealth to support his friends and family, and there's only so many ways you can split that up.

I mean, I get why people don't like it, because it came out of nowhere, and they haven't gone the route of explaining that Shawn's "too proud to beg from his friends" or whatever, yet, but the basics of the angle itself aren't overly complicated and make a good deal of sense in the context in which they're presented, no matter how wealthy you percieve Shawn to be.

I do think they should've held off on this particular angle until Evan Bourne was ready to come back. I think it would've been a perfect angle for a young guy coming off a major injury, but I'm guessing they didn't want to waste their "recession" storyline on the undercard.



For NFL Power Rankings, My Blog and More, check out Hock Show Dot Com (hockshow.com)
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#74 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by Excalibur05
    I poke a lot of fun at it in the Satire, but I really don't understand why this angle is so hard to grasp.

    How many people have we heard of over the past few years that made millions as a wrestler/actor/athlete/whatever and squandered it away to nothing? I mean, look at a guy like Flair even, a guy who was collecting a decent paycheck for thiry years, but still came out of his career over $100,000 in debt. And I think it's entirely believable (as was suggested by his Armageddon promo) that he's the type of guy who would succumb to a sort of MC Hammer trap, where he feels he needs to use his wealth to support his friends and family, and there's only so many ways you can split that up.

    I mean, I get why people don't like it, because it came out of nowhere, and they haven't gone the route of explaining that Shawn's "too proud to beg from his friends" or whatever, yet, but the basics of the angle itself aren't overly complicated and make a good deal of sense in the context in which they're presented, no matter how wealthy you percieve Shawn to be.

    I do think they should've held off on this particular angle until Evan Bourne was ready to come back. I think it would've been a perfect angle for a young guy coming off a major injury, but I'm guessing they didn't want to waste their "recession" storyline on the undercard.

The problem is that the explanation for the suddenness of his financial problems doesn't jibe with the solution of becoming your enemy's manservant.

Let's assume HBK had a shitty couple months in the stock market. Unless he has the worst investment manager on earth he would likely not have lost more than 30-40% of the money he had in there.

Now what about everything else? Did he have mortgages on all his homes and things he bought and was depending on positive returns every few months to pay all of that? Even though he is likely earning a million or so a year? His kids college fund is hit...are they planning on going to college this year? I think in the next 10 years it seems likely the market will pick back up. I suppose maybe you could say he had a gigantic loan out that came due, so he would need to sell everything he ever owned to pay it off, but really, that just doesn't seem that likely. Is his credit so wrecked that even though he has a million dollar a year job that the only entity willing to give him a loan is his loan-sharking bitter enemy? Seriously, I know refinancing mortgages isn't easy these days, but I have to think he might have a chance, even if he has to pay a bit above prime.

It just doesn't add up. If this were just any other guy it might not mean as much, but I hate to see Michaels, the guy who can bring the most realistic emotion to an angle, forced to try and rescue something like this. Give this angle to Hacksaw Duggan or something. But why spend one of your best performers on a storyline that basically comes off as a ham-handed attempt to bring the current financial crisis into the storyline and an attempt to play off the publicity the Aronofsky movie is getting?



2007 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1926 days
Last activity: 1860 days
#75 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Because Shawn's the only guy that could sell this angle. He's a born-again Christian, his love for his family is well-documented, as are his wild partying earlier days. Besides, who's to say JBL isn't offering him $10million? There are too many variables to either praise or damn this angle.



"And here...we...go."
MUTigermask
Boudin rouge








Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

Since last post: 414 days
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#76 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.85
    Originally posted by djp
    As for Undertaker, I propose that they pit him in a handicap match against every single member of the roster who doesn't already have a Wrestlemania match. Then they can all get a Wrestlemania payday and 'Taker can increase his Wrestlemania record to 100-0.

    (edited by InVerse on 18.12.08 2007)


I was thinking the same thing just the other day, except in a gauntet match. He could go from 15-0 to 20-0 in 10 minutes.




NONONO. What they should do is go with CRZs favorite angle, the Sid Vicious "Millennium Man" route. Have Taker come out with a ref after the Money in the Bank match and have him Tombstone and pin everyone and have the ref hold up a sign for each "win". And then just keep doing it after every match.
Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 132 days
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#77 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.57
Remember when HBK bought Ric Flair matching His & Hers Rolex watches last March?

Hey, why isn't Jesse "Bam Bam" Gordy a member of The Legacy/Priceless Super III-Gen Stable?

Welp, TTYL!



This is all serious business.
KJames199
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

Since last post: 9 days
Last activity: 10 hours
#78 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.30
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    Remember when HBK bought Ric Flair matching His & Hers Rolex watches last March?
People who spend money foolishly run out of money.

Also, from reading the Observers and F4Ws at the time, I could never tell whether it was Shawn or Vince who bought the Rolexes. Both got the credit/blame at various times.



JK: LJ, S&H, KMA, FB
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