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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #812 12/15/08 (Page 3)
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spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

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#41 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by Super Shane Spear
    You cannot get more explicit than "My wife and I saw the recession coming and invested in gold," which is almost word for word that he said two weeks ago.

    I simply cannot wrap my head around how much people are complaining about this story line. There are leprechauns, boogeymen, guys who can shoot lightning and fire out of their hands, collapsing stages, a man that only reacts to the ringing of a bell, a man that kicks people in the head without repercussions, an African pretending to be Jamacian, and Mike Adamle.

    ...but THIS is ridiculous.



Sure you can get more explicit. What's his wife's name? There's tons of clips out there of her on financial shows talking about the matter.

As for the rest...these are things that have explanations inside the universe, or they are things that have never had contradictory information brought into the storylines. Undertaker has always had the ability to call down lightning and do spooky shit. So we accept it (even though we roll our eyes). No one has ever said "Kofi Kingston, though born in Ghana is a Jamaican."

Problem is we've been watching happy go lucky HBK for the last year, his only real concern being getting revenge on Chris Jericho. And one day he's flat broke? And only JBL can save him? Why? What about his friend HHH? I am not sure what the story actually is.

I might be willing to buy this storyline if they did one thing to it. Add a specific retirement date for Michaels. The "not much time left" doesn't give me any reason to buy it. Say that doctors have given me 6 months, 12 months, whatever. Set a retirement date. Then I might buy that "wow, he doesn't have much longer." Why the only person in the world he can turn to is JBL is still unexplained, but I'd be a bit more willing to overlook it then as bizarre wrestling logic.



2007 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
DJ FrostyFreeze
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Hawthorne, CA

Since last post: 4 hours
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#42 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.27
Read it and weep, fella


    Originally posted by CRZ
    [JBL]'s more like - oh no, here comes a Trekker reference - he's more like a Ferengi, where he's only motivated by profit first and his own legacy a close second ("longest reigning champion in the history of Smackdown") and I don't see how rescuing HBK from his disastrous financial situation by making him his own Orlando Jordan II fits into either of those goals. ESPECIALLY since the original Orlando Jordan is probably available... and at a much cheaper rate. ;-)
My guess is that JBL will use HBK to do his dirty heel work, help him win matches, cause others to lose matches, etc. How long can they drag that out for though? I mean, at what point does HBK no longer need JBL's money anymore and turn on him?



CLICK OR DIE
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KJames199
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Since: 10.12.01
From: #yqr

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#43 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.31
Guessing: next week, Shawn wins his fatal-fourway qualifying match and JBL loses his. Maybe JBL even refuses to wrestle in his. The next week, JBL takes Shawn's spot in the four-way.

In fact, it wouldn't shock me if JBL won the title shot at the Rumble so that that more worthy contenders - Orton, Batista, Shawn, etc. - are free to compete in the Rumble match, but whatever.

Anyway, eventually Shawn superkicks JBL because pride means more than money, they have some matches, and Shawn's brush with poverty is quickly forgotten.



JK: LJ, S&H, KMA, FB
Super Shane Spear
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

Since last post: 1593 days
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#44 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.91
"Sure you can get more explicit. What's his wife's name?"

I'm sorry that you feel like you need every detail spelt out, but there are some people that would like to come to their own conclusions. It's very very simple to just wikipedia his name. All his important info is there.

I understand that the character of Shawn Michaels is looked upon as being too unbelievable for this role because he should have a steady stream of income and he has friends like HHH to bail him out when he needs it. But what people overlook is just how stubborn he is in the first place. Assuming that he needs to collect a sufficent amount to support his family once he retires, why would he want to take a handout from his best friend that he in all likelyhood would not be able to pay back (at least not to the extent.)

Look at people that Shawn knows first hand. Ric Flair has sold himself out to a website. Hulk Hogan is wrestling on two bad needs to support his kids and many divorces. Shane Douglas works in a Walmart! During the legends of wrestling episode I watched, it sure seemed like Ross, Lawler, Tazz, et al had a good time enjoying that fact. With all the people Shanw has pissed off in his life, why would he give them the satisfaction of seeing him hit rock bottom? I'm sure HBK would rather sell his soul than let that happen.

Sure, there's still stuff to address, like JBL's end. And, yes, of course there's problems with the past. I understand that if he was sooooo concerned about his job, why was he consistantly fighting Vince and co the last four years? But things are kinda different now. I have a job that I wouldn't mind quitting now myself but I can't leave because of this economy I'm scared I'll never be hired again. And I don't even have children to worry about. So how can I doubt that Shawn may be having trouble getting in over his head with finance trouble?
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#45 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.35
Something about HBK's beard weirds me out. I can't tell if it's the way the color makes the texture look or what, but it weirds me out.

vitiated
Braunschweiger








Since: 7.4.07
From: annandale, virginia

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#46 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.00
the thing that makes me wonder is.. it wasn't that long ago that shawn was going to retire after his eye injury from jericho.

the economy has been collapsing since before that, what was the actual moment he lost his money? right after the DX ad?

he main evented with jericho how many raws and was on how many ppv's with that feud? NOW he's broke? maybe they should throw in that his wife needed expensive facial reconstruction from jericho as well.




He who makes a beast of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 38 days
Last activity: 3 days
#47 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.72
    Originally posted by Super Shane Spear
    You cannot get more explicit than "My wife and I saw the recession coming and invested in gold," which is almost word for word that he said two weeks ago.

    I simply cannot wrap my head around how much people are complaining about this story line. There are leprechauns, boogeymen, guys who can shoot lightning and fire out of their hands, collapsing stages, a man that only reacts to the ringing of a bell, a man that kicks people in the head without repercussions, an African pretending to be Jamacian, and Mike Adamle.

    ...but THIS is ridiculous.




Yes, retarded hillbillies, worm eating boogeymen, and leprechaun paternity suits are quite dumb, but we are talking about one of the top stars in the company involved in an (arguably) unbelievable big storyline that may just lead to Wrestlemania. I see a big difference. That being said, when those other things you mentioned happened, we came here and discussed them. That's all we are doing now, too.

It amazes me when people don't like a discussion here, but always want to comment about it. I wouldn't go up to someone I don't know at a bar and make fun of their conversation. I see plenty of threads here that I think are odd, but I just stop reading the thread.




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#48 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.71
I wonder What Bret Hart thinks of all this? If I were Vince I would check to make sure Shawn is not wired. :)
Super Shane Spear
Bierwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Sector 7 Slums

Since last post: 1593 days
Last activity: 1593 days
#49 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.93
"It amazes me when people don't like a discussion here, but always want to comment about it. I wouldn't go up to someone I don't know at a bar and make fun of their conversation. I see plenty of threads here that I think are odd, but I just stop reading the thread."

I never said a word about discussion as a whole. MY gripe is with people who refuse to think for themselves and have a need to have everything spoon-fed to them. Of course Shawn Michaels is not going to air his dirty laundry on global television. I'm pretty sure we all understand that the sad sack is going to be ok and sweet kickin' by Wrestlemania. Maybe I put this board on a pedestal I shouldn't, but anybody who thinks that this or ANYTHING on WWE television is real and legitimate shouldn't be here in the first place. So what I am encouraging is second level thinking. Lawler actually pointing out how the happy-go-lucky DX commercials were filmed beforehand was a perfect example of this. So to go back to what I was originally saying, naturally this is no more real than Snitsky crushing a baby. But we know that. So instead of crushing a two-week old storyline for being "unbelievable" why not provide constructive criticism like Cubs or Z?

Bonus coverage: Also, your metaphor is terrible because this isn't "some bar" where I don't know you or what you are talking about. I've known the good majority of you for over six years, so I feel comfortable enough with most of you to point out when you're acting dumb.

Frankly I've hit my quota for this DAY, let alone this thread so before you make another full post about how I choose to discuss things, read this or one of the other two posts and pretend I repeated it until you "Get it."

(edited by Super Shane Spear on 16.12.08 1759)
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#50 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.88
Michaels/Bradshaw would have worked better if they had had Michaels go into a losing streak against weaker competition, causing him to believe that the end was really near and desperate times called for desperate measures. Doing it after he received the match of the year award makes it less likely that the end is voluntarily near.
Let Jim Duggan develop the spirit of the man who defeated him in the UWF Title Tourney over 22 years ago, The One Man Gang. Much like Kamala II, let there be Akeem II.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAWJjbrzUYA





(edited by redsoxnation on 16.12.08 2106)
Rush4Life
Summer sausage








Since: 2.1.02
From: Tacoma, WA

Since last post: 60 days
Last activity: 17 days
#51 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.49
I will chime in. I have been unemployed since September and finding a job that will allow me to resume my comfortable life prior to that has not been the easiest to come by. That being said, the angle with HBK and JBL is fine with me.

Sure it won't be HBK/Jericho over the summer but its what I feel some of us have forgotten over the years: wrestling is a form of entertainment with over the top characters, athletics and stories. The proverbial male soap opera comes to mind.

Speaking of soap operas, those are the worst waste of time ever! How many of those stories end up with every character being somehow related to one another and a character whether good or bad perishes, only to show back up near death in the span of 2 episodes and then comes back in 5 episodes like nothing ever happened!

My point is that it is all stupid at times but don't we expect that as fans?



Chuck Norris drives an ice cream truck covered in human skulls.
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 38 days
Last activity: 3 days
#52 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.72
    Originally posted by Super Shane Spear
    "It amazes me when people don't like a discussion here, but always want to comment about it. I wouldn't go up to someone I don't know at a bar and make fun of their conversation. I see plenty of threads here that I think are odd, but I just stop reading the thread."

    I never said a word about discussion as a whole. MY gripe is with people who refuse to think for themselves and have a need to have everything spoon-fed to them. Of course Shawn Michaels is not going to air his dirty laundry on global television. I'm pretty sure we all understand that the sad sack is going to be ok and sweet kickin' by Wrestlemania. Maybe I put this board on a pedestal I shouldn't, but anybody who thinks that this or ANYTHING on WWE television is real and legitimate shouldn't be here in the first place. So what I am encouraging is second level thinking. Lawler actually pointing out how the happy-go-lucky DX commercials were filmed beforehand was a perfect example of this. So to go back to what I was originally saying, naturally this is no more real than Snitsky crushing a baby. But we know that. So instead of crushing a two-week old storyline for being "unbelievable" why not provide constructive criticism like Cubs or Z?

    Bonus coverage: Also, your metaphor is terrible because this isn't "some bar" where I don't know you or what you are talking about. I've known the good majority of you for over six years, so I feel comfortable enough with most of you to point out when you're acting dumb.

    Frankly I've hit my quota for this DAY, let alone this thread so before you make another full post about how I choose to discuss things, read this or one of the other two posts and pretend I repeated it until you "Get it."

    (edited by Super Shane Spear on 16.12.08 1759)

My apologies Super Shane, as the 2nd half of my post was not directed at you, but to others who took a more condescending tone in their posts. I should have been more specific. If I saw you in a bar, I am sure we could enjoy a beer together.

In the end, it is more about me not buying into a storyline that seems forced (though well executed) involving the guy who always delivers at WM, and this might just be his WM storyline. It reminds me of the Vince/HBK angle from 2006 in that regard. Anything involving JBL can only excite me so much. Great promos, but he seldom delivers in the ring to pay them off.




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
JimBob Skeeter
Bratwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 14 hours
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#53 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.42
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Diggler looks equally like Randy Orton and Jeff Jarrett, and he wrestles like Mr. Perfect. We must embrace him.



I thought the same exact thing when he wrestled two weeks ago. He has many of Hennig's mannerisms, and in a good way. I'm looking forward to his matches to see if he keeps this up!
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 11 hours
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#54 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
    My guess is that JBL will use HBK to do his dirty heel work, help him win matches, cause others to lose matches, etc. How long can they drag that out for though? I mean, at what point does HBK no longer need JBL's money anymore and turn on him?


A big, fat blow-off match at the Texas WrestleMania. That gives us three months to milk this along as (I hope) JBL makes cheat to win for a cut of his income. They could do far worse than rerun DiBiase/Virgil with these guys.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#55 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.65
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
      My guess is that JBL will use HBK to do his dirty heel work, help him win matches, cause others to lose matches, etc. How long can they drag that out for though? I mean, at what point does HBK no longer need JBL's money anymore and turn on him?


    A big, fat blow-off match at the Texas WrestleMania. That gives us three months to milk this along as (I hope) JBL makes cheat to win for a cut of his income. They could do far worse than rerun DiBiase/Virgil with these guys.


True. And I would be very amused if, after the inevitable split, they replay the old Jimmy Hart/Hart Foundation split where -- even after they dumped him -- Jimmy still got a cut of their money due to his managerial contract. Heck, that might allow them to start the feud the month before WM and have WM be a match for retirement vs contract.
CruelAngel777
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Since: 7.4.02

Since last post: 2 hours
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#56 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.40
Wow. This broke wrestler thing got out of hand quite quickly. I just wonder why only HBK is in financial trouble? No one else in the WWE invests in stock?
spf
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Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 12 days
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#57 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by Hokienautic
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
        Originally posted by DJ FrostyFreeze
        My guess is that JBL will use HBK to do his dirty heel work, help him win matches, cause others to lose matches, etc. How long can they drag that out for though? I mean, at what point does HBK no longer need JBL's money anymore and turn on him?


      A big, fat blow-off match at the Texas WrestleMania. That gives us three months to milk this along as (I hope) JBL makes cheat to win for a cut of his income. They could do far worse than rerun DiBiase/Virgil with these guys.


    True. And I would be very amused if, after the inevitable split, they replay the old Jimmy Hart/Hart Foundation split where -- even after they dumped him -- Jimmy still got a cut of their money due to his managerial contract. Heck, that might allow them to start the feud the month before WM and have WM be a match for retirement vs contract.

I think this is one of my other problems with it. How do you get out of this angle? Unless WWE is banking on the stock market picking up sometime in the next few months we're left with one of a couple of options, and please forgive if it seems like fantasy booking:

1. HBK remains JBL's bitch forever. Plausible, fits in the storyline, but seems unlikely.
2. HBK turns on JBL in the coming months. Nothing in the world has gotten better, so we're left with a character who after telling us he just wants to support his family decides to say the hell with it and tell his kid to go to junior college. I'm sure no one will give a shit in the end because everyone will just be happy about JBL getting kicked in the head, but it still seems like poor storytelling.
3. HBK wins $13 million in bingo. This could end up leading to Evad Sullivan returning. Solves the problem, but gives us Evad Sullivan.
4. A mysterious benefactor rides to the rescue. Doesn't fit in with the whole "HBK is to stubborn to ask for help" thing, but it does allow for any number of possibilities at least.
5. Vince brings back the Million Dollar Giveaway. Michaels wins. Khali, Kung fu Naki, Slick, Sgt. Slaughter, Patterson and Brisco, Mae Young, Kamala, and the Gobbledygooker all come on stage and dance with HBK. They all beat up JBL and Mae Young begins to make out with his fallen body. Ron Simmons comes out and says "damn", effectively ending the angle.

I assume in the end it will be #2, and a week after they have their blowoff match no one will remember this any more than they remember him turning heel to fight Hogan at Summerslam a couple years ago.



2007 W-League Fantasy Football champion!
Hokienautic
Liverwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Blacksburg VA

Since last post: 5 hours
Last activity: 5 hours
#58 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.65
    Originally posted by spf

    I think this is one of my other problems with it. How do you get out of this angle? Unless WWE is banking on the stock market picking up sometime in the next few months we're left with one of a couple of options, and please forgive if it seems like fantasy booking:

    1. HBK remains JBL's bitch forever. Plausible, fits in the storyline, but seems unlikely.
    2. HBK turns on JBL in the coming months. Nothing in the world has gotten better, so we're left with a character who after telling us he just wants to support his family decides to say the hell with it and tell his kid to go to junior college. I'm sure no one will give a shit in the end because everyone will just be happy about JBL getting kicked in the head, but it still seems like poor storytelling.
    3. HBK wins $13 million in bingo. This could end up leading to Evad Sullivan returning. Solves the problem, but gives us Evad Sullivan.
    4. A mysterious benefactor rides to the rescue. Doesn't fit in with the whole "HBK is to stubborn to ask for help" thing, but it does allow for any number of possibilities at least.
    5. Vince brings back the Million Dollar Giveaway. Michaels wins. Khali, Kung fu Naki, Slick, Sgt. Slaughter, Patterson and Brisco, Mae Young, Kamala, and the Gobbledygooker all come on stage and dance with HBK. They all beat up JBL and Mae Young begins to make out with his fallen body. Ron Simmons comes out and says "damn", effectively ending the angle.

    I assume in the end it will be #2, and a week after they have their blowoff match no one will remember this any more than they remember him turning heel to fight Hogan at Summerslam a couple years ago.


Other options:

(1) The WM blowoff match includes a payout of the rest of the money JBL owes HBK per the terms of the contract if HBK wins
(2) They come out with another (did they do one already?) HBK DVD that sells like hotcakes
(3) JBL's wife tires of him making money off of his advice and dumps him on-screen, telling HBK that she'll be happy to be his financial advisor for free.
MUTigermask
Boudin rouge








Since: 8.10.03
From: Columbia MO

Since last post: 477 days
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#59 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.63
    Originally posted by kentish
    Anything involving JBL can only excite me so much. Great promos, but he seldom delivers in the ring to pay them off.


Yeah, I have this problem with the angle myself. JBL just doesn't do much for me. My question is, if this angle is leading to a blow-off match between HBK and JBL at Mania, who faces Undertaker? People have been expecting a HBK/Taker match for Mania this year, but if HBK is tied up with JBL it leaves Taker without an opponent. I'd personally love to see Jericho/Taker, as I don't think they've ever had a 1-on-1 match, but I have no idea how they'd get there.
GodEatGod
Boudin rouge








Since: 28.2.02

Since last post: 67 days
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#60 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.34
If it's leading up to a Wrestlemania match between the two, I'd say have Shawn get under JBL's skin and taunt him until he makes the match career vs. fortune. It's a ridiculous stip, sure, but no more so than some. Then, when HBK wins, you get a storyline coming out of Wrestlemania of bitter JBL having been "robbed" of his fortune and taking it out on everyone and Shawn's money problems are taken care of and don't have to come up again.

Sadly, I think we're more likely to see Undertaker-Kozlov at Wrestlemania than UT-HBK.



"Never piss off a hawk with a blowgun" - Conan O'Brien
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