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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #804 10/20/08
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geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.23
TONIGHT: With Cyber Sunday coming up (and don't forget to make your predictions here: http://the-w.com/thread.php/id=36617), this is what those in the business call a “go-home show.” Curiously, nothing on WWE.com about what’s scheduled for Raw tonight. During House, they plugged a Divas tag match to open the show: Kelly Kelly and Candice Michelle against Jillian Hall and Katie Lea.

-WWE Open.

-Raw Open.

(1) Kelly Kelly & Candice Michelle vs. Jillian Hall & Katie Lea
I’m convinced Katie could be a solid top-level heel for the women’s division. Cole and Lawler plugged the divas Halloween Costume Contest at Cyber Sunday. King revealed that Candice would be there as Marilyn Monroe, Katie Lea as a vampire and Kelly as a sailor. Jillian sang “Don’t let your babies grow up to be cowboys.” Kelly heard enough and kicked her from behind.

Jillian then started the match with Kelly. Kelly did her standing flip then hit a dropkick for two. Tandem elbowdrop by the faces. Candice used a unique chokehold with her legs in the ropes on Jillian, but Katie Lea broke it soon after she hooked it in. Katie then tagged in and got a two-count. Back-breaker by Lea for two. Handspring elbow in the corner by Jillian. Candice decked Katie at ringside and took Jillian down, then made the hot tag to Kelly. Flying bodypress by Kelly for two, broken up by Katie. Candice took her out then broke up Jillian’s pin try. Fameasser-type move for three by Kelly.

Winners: Kelly & Candice, at 3:34. Bad, but not as bad as you’d think. Tolera-bad.

-Lawler and Cole talked on camera, and they threw it to highlights of last Monday, when Jericho and Batista chose each other’s opponents. Eight minutes in is a bit early to reminisce about last week, isn’t it? They didn’t even show the best part- Batista’s reaction to naming himself guest referee.

-World Champion Chris Jericho will be joining the show next.

[Commercial Break]

-Chris Jericho came out. He stood in the ring until his music stopped, then went to ringside and demanded Lillian Garcia introduce him as World Champion. So she did. He talked about the lack of respect and said he should never have to ask her to introduce him again; she should just do it. Jericho talked about the special ref options for Cyber Sunday and talked about how he beat HBK at his own match.

Batista came out. He said you earn respect, you don’t demand it. He then said if Jericho beats him at Cyber Sunday, he’ll have earned respect. But until then, he told Jericho, stop whining. Mike Adamle then came out and said they will each have to fight the same three guys tonight in a gauntlet match. He repeated “Gauntlet Match” after a pause, then paused again, apparently losing his place. Soon after, Cole pulled a Mike Tenay, repeating “In a gauntlet match!” after Lawler talked about Batista and Jericho having to fight the same three guys tonight. Then Jericho slapped Batista, then quickly left the ring and said that was his first lesson in respect.

-John Morrison & The Miz face CM Punk & Kofi Kingston tonight.

[Commercial Break]

-JBL was out. He bemoaned having to face an impersonator like Charlie Haas. Fans said “what!” after what he said, so he said it wasn’t sing along with JBL and they should shut up. JBL talked about the economy again. The glass broke and even I saw this coming: Out walked Stone Cold Haastin. His black vest even said that. He came out sans the two giant knee-braces. Haas told Lillian to announce him as the man who paid homage by personally text voting for Ausin and he was announced as “Stone Cold” Steve Haastin. There was even a “Haastin” chant. JBL got back on the mic and everything he said was met with a “what” from Haastin. Haastin screwed up the “whoop ass” phrasing, but the crowd still gave him a “Hell yeah!” JBL said he nor Stone Cold could ever lace his boots.

(2) JBL vs. Steve Haastin
Haastin hit a Thesz press, then stomped a mud-hole in JBL in the corner. He tried a Stunner but it was blocked, and he walked into a big boot from JBL. Running clothesline from Hell for three.
Winner: JBL, at 1:02.

JBL grabbed a mic from Lillian (she’s been harassed a lot this week already) and said that it was the bottom line because JBL said so.

-Rey Mysterio was walking backstage, and he put on a La Parka-like mask....he’s headed to the ring for his match, next.

[Commercial Break]

(3) Rey Mysterio vs. Snitsky
Snitsky did a quick inset interview about nothing really. They’re calling this a warm-up match for Rey, but he’s faced Kane before, so he should be ready for him. Snitsky dominated offense for the first pat of the match, until he missed a running kick in the corner. Seated senton off the top, then a low dropkick. Mysterio hit a sloppy headscissors to put Snitsky in position for the 619, then hit that as well as springboard splash for the win.

Winner: Rey, at 1:52. Was there any doubt as to the result of this one? I don’t think this helped Rey get ready for Kane at all.

-Jericho and Batista will both participate in a gauntlet match later tonight.

-Also, up next, Punk & Kingston face Morrison & The Miz.


[Commercial Break]

-Lots of celebrities, including Carl Edwards, Kasey Kahne, Snoop Dogg, The Jonas Brothers(!), Bobby Lee, Kelly Carlson, John Salley, Ben Stiller, Gabrielle Reece, Rob Thomas and others commented on John Cena. They also showed clips of his appearances in the media in the past.

(4) John Morrision & The Miz vs. CM Punk & Kofi Kingston
Miz implored fans to vote for their match at Cyber Sunday. Morrison talked about how they’re better than any other team ever, including the Freebirds, Legion of Doom and DX (lots of “oohhs!” from the crowd). Instead of “are you ready,” they asked, “are you fifty?” Then had two words for us: be jealous.

Punk hit an enziguiri on Miz, then Kofi came in and hit a high dropkick on Miz, sending him outside the ring. Lots of tags between the faces. They even double-teamed Morrison, lifting him up and throwing him onto Miz at ringside. More double-teaming on Miz, with Punk getting a two-count after a leg lariat. Miz got a short burst of offense, but Kingston got a monkey-flip. Morrison took out Kofi while on the second rope, and Miz took advantage. Morrison tagged in and got Kingston in a chin-lock as the show went to break.

[Commercial Break]

Back live, Morrison had Kofi in another rest-hold. Apparently there was action during the break though. Double-teaming on Kofi, so Punk broke up a pin attempt. Punk tried to get the crowd into it. Kingston finally made the hot tag and beat the hell out of Morrison with his unique offense. High knee into a running bulldog. Punk tried a springboard; Morrison moved but Punk slipped on the top rope and landed on his feet anyway. It didn’t look too terrible. Punk hit the GTS on Morrison, but Miz had made the blind tag, rolled up Punk and got the three.

Winners: Miz & Morrison, at 12:22. Pretty good tag match.

-Jericho was backstage, whining to Adamle. Jericho said he should be mentioned in the same breath as champions like Buddy Rogers, Hogan and Bret Hart. Adamle said he was giving Jericho the opportunity for respect tonight. Respect from him, Batista, the WWE Universe, and more importantly, self-respect. It sounded good, but I think Jericho already respects himself.

[Commercial Break]

-Santino Marella and Beth Phoenix came out; Marella dressed as a combination of Roddy Piper (with the t-shirt and kild), Goldust (gold face paint) and Honky Tonk Man (the hair! and a guitar). Santino said he’d make the voting easy for the WWE Universe. He said all of his opponents for Cyber Sunday are washed up. He then made fun of each of them. Not particularly funny either. It went on for a while. Hacksaw Jim Duggan finally interrupted.

Santino said Duggan looked like a hobo (not in those words). Duggan said Santino was on his last minute of his 15 minutes of fame. Duggan said he’s been around a long team and seen a lot of flashes in the pan and Santino is the flashiest. Duggan said he didn’t appreciate Santino disrespecting his generation. “Why are you so anger to me?” asked Santino. Marella then brought up the Honk-A-Meter. It’s 64 to 10 for those keeping score at home. Santino asked Duggan to remember when he was Intercontinental Champion....NOT! Santino said he only one a gold medal at the Goodwill Games. He should’ve brought up Duggan fishing out the US Title out of the garbage. Duggan referred to Beth as Santino’s boyfriend. Santino then got undressed and got ready for fight. Beth threw the clothes at Duggan, then Santino hit him over the head with the guitar. Somehow, Santino’s mouth got busted open and said we’d never forget the name of Santino Marella. It appears part of the guitar came up and hit Marella in the mouth. Not a great segment.

[Commercial Break]

(5) Cryme Tyme vs. Ted Dibiase & Cody Rhdoes
The heels attacked before the bell, including Manu getting involved. He splashed JTG in the corner and the heels continued their assault. Dibiase grabbed their belts from ringside...and that was it.

Winner: No match.

-Jericho and Batista in a gauntlet match....at some point!

[Commercial Break]

-Cole and Lawler talked WrestleMania, then moved into discussing the card of Cyber Sunday. Lawler tried to give directions to fans to text for the Show vs. Taker match....only it’s web-exclusive. Thankfully, Cole interrupted him to tell him that before Lawler got too into it.

-Chris Jericho came out for his gauntlet match. They’ve had gauntlet matches before....how exactly is this an Adamle Original?

[Commercial Break]

(5) Chris Jericho and Batista, Gauntlet Match.
Adamle was out with Jericho in the ring. Batista then came out. Adamle said we’d witness for the first time ever, Batista and Jericho fighting the same three opponents in a Gauntlet Match. The first man: William Regal.

Regal came out with Layla. Batista immediately hit a spinebuster, then a Batista Bomb. He got the win in :32. Ridiculous. Jericho then came in and ordered the ref to get Batista to leave. Adamle tried to make an announcement, but I don’t’ think the mic was working. Mike Chioda waited ‘til Regal got to his feet, then rang the bell. Jericho hit the Codebreaker and won in :07.

Part two started with Mark Henry and Jericho. Isn’t the point of a gauntlet match the wrestler having to fight guys back to back and not getting a rest like these guys are? Jericho took out Henry’s knees, but couldn’t get the Walls locked in. Henry kicked Jericho out of the ring and Jericho came in, running into a forearm. Hard whip into the corner by Henry. Splash in the corner by Mizark. He missed a big splash though and Jericho hit a Lionsault for only two. Jericho took the turnbuckle pad off the corner and as the ref dealt with that, Jericho got his World Title and hit Henry with it. Unfortunately, Chioda saw it and awarded the decision to Henry, at 2:56. Batista picked up Henry for a spinebuster and pinned him in :16.

Adamle called for Jericho to start the next match and introduced the opponent: Kane. They went to a commercial before the next test.

[Commercial Break]

-Match was joined in progress out of break. Kane pounded away at Jericho in the corner, but Jericho kicked Kane’s legs out from under him. He even wrapped Kane’s legs around the ringpost. Side slam by Kane. Kane missed an elbow but Kane shrugged off the Codebreaker. He went to the top rope, but Jericho hit the ropes and Kane crotched himself. Jericho tried a suplex, but Kane headbutted him off. Flying clothesline got a near-fall for Kane. Jericho tried to back-body drop Jericho out of the ring, but Jericho landed rib-first onto the top rope, then over to the outside. Not sure if that was on purpose or not. Batista jawed with Jericho, and Kane, back in the ring, hit a big boot for the win at 4:18 shown. Kane kicked Jericho off the apron, Batista speared him and got the pin at :06. Really convoluted here. Batista stared down Jericho, who held his belt over his head at ringside.

(edited by geemoney on 20.10.08 2306)

(edited by geemoney on 20.10.08 2308)
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Cerebus
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Since: 17.11.02

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#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.48
Was this the first time they EVER opened the show with a womens match?

Charlie Haas is awesome!

That's all I got.



Forget it Josh... it's Cerebustown.
CajunMan
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Give me a Title shot!

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#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.70
I'm confused here, I saw an AD that in two weeks the WWE will have there episode #800, but this is listed at #804. Did the WWE some how lose count, or was it the WWE did not even realise they surpassed #800 until somebody told them? Did they maybe just want to wait after the MLB playoffs? Just seemed kind of odd.
StaggerLee
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Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

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#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.48
Duggan fished the TV title out of the trash, not the US title.
geemoney
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Since: 26.1.03
From: Naples, FL

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#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.23
    Originally posted by StaggerLee
    Duggan fished the TV title out of the trash, not the US title.

Ah, that's right. And I even watched Saturday Night in those days!
thecubsfan
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Since: 10.12.01
From: Aurora, IL

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#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by CajunMan
    I'm confused here, I saw an AD that in two weeks the WWE will have there episode #800, but this is listed at #804. Did the WWE some how lose count, or was it the WWE did not even realise they surpassed #800 until somebody told them? Did they maybe just want to wait after the MLB playoffs? Just seemed kind of odd.


WWE was asked to do a 3 hour show and needed something to build it around, so they decided not to let something like an accurate count stand in their way.



thecubsfan.com - luchablog
JimBob Skeeter
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Since: 2.1.02
From: MN

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 19 min.
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.43
I turned it on jsut as JBL was getting out of the limoe. As soon as he lit into the crowd about their "WHAT!"-ing, the thought: "Haastin" went thru my head. Then the glass broke. Charlie fucking up the Whoop Ass phrase was even better, too.

I love Santino. Duggan, too: "TOUGH GUY~!" to Beth was classic. Have Honky and Vince made up? last I thought HTM was slamming everything the E did?

Heartbreaking Hotel almost made me choke on my M&M.

The main event made no sense to me. batista's slam on Henry was impressive, tho.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by thecubsfan
    WWE was asked to do a 3 hour show and needed something to build it around, so they decided not to let something like an accurate count stand in their way.


They're calling it a "celebration" of the 800th episode, whenever it may have run.

The booking for the IC belt looks like this: Haas wins the belt at CyberSunday and is challenged by JBL for his first defense angle.

I HOPE that's the case because bringing in one of the three actual contenders doesn't seem to help anyone. Marella isn't wrestling anymore; he's strictly a talker who loses cleanly or wins quickly with a rollup. I don't think he can carry HTM or Piper to a decent match. Goldust, maybe. But if they were giving the belt to a "legend," well, D-Lo is right there, and he's not doing anything, and he's already over with the current fans.

Is anyone else getting the vibe that Cena's much-hyped return will lead to a heel swerve?



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

Since last post: 45 days
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#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.76
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    Is anyone else getting the vibe that Cena's much-hyped return will lead to a heel swerve?


I was SOOOOO thinking that same thing last night when the whole celebrity montage came on. Didn't Cena come back early from a pec muscle injury at Royal Rumble and they didn't hype him at all? Now, he's got a second injury in less than a year and they have vignettes every week for him.

Plus, it's such an interesting dynamic if he goes heel: Do all the people booing his goody-two-shoes character before now cheer (depending on how good a heel he is)? Do all of his current fans boo? Does he still get the intense reaction either good or bad?

I'd be interested to see if he can pull it off because I wasn't buying his heel shtick early in his career at all.
hayden
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Since: 11.1.05

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#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.00
Week after week, I keep thinking that Batista's act is much better suited to heeldom, with the chuckles and that cocky smirk that always seems to be on his face. Am I alone in thinking this?
cfgb
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Since: 2.1.02
From: Ottawa, Ontario

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#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.40
I hated the main event last night.

First, Jericho, the CHAMPION, came off as a pansy. Is there something wrong with a strong heel? It feels like we've reverted to 1995 where the heels MUST be chickenshit losers who scrape by only by cheating. Then during a face turn, they miraculously rediscover the ability to score a clean victory. It drives me nuts.

Chris Jericho is the champion of the company, the man everyone is gunning for, and as a result, should not be easy pickings for the likes of Mark Henry or Kane. When Batista loses to him on Sunday, he loses to the man who couldn't pin Mark Henry. As opposed to losing to an uber strong thinking champion, he's losing to a loser, making him ... Scott Putski?

We already have one version of the Honky Tonk Man, we certainly don't require 2. It's 2008. Terrell Owens and Randy Moss made up a fantastic duo of heels a couple of years ago, by being disrespectful assholes who were unstoppable on the field. They didn't get booed because they were sneaky, dirty players, they got booed because of their attitude.

Awful main event, awful result, backwards thinking all around.
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

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#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.79
Tough to see them have Cena come back immediately as a heel, as Survivor Series is in Boston and he's scheduled in the main event on RAW the next night in Providence (they put the ad in on RAW itself so I can't really consider it a spoiler). Don't see him getting boo'ed in those arenas. so a heel turn would be awkward. If Survivor Series was in say Newark, maybe they would go in that direction.
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    ... If Survivor Series was in say Newark, maybe they would go in that direction.


I don't think a heel swerve is a good idea; he already polarizes the audience to extremes.

I can't see any casual TV viewer flipping past RAW just in time to see a package of Cena outside the ring. The montages don't seem to be for the benefit of the loyal wrestling audiences who already know Cena and all the qualities he brings to the ring.

Then again, I don't see how all the "Did You Know" bits about ratings and indirect ad-rates can be of any interest to those who already regularly watch. It's marketing material better directed to potential advertisers, not people watching TV.

I just want these montages to do more than sell a guy the majority of the WWE audience has already bought.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.76
They didn't hype Cena's return at the Rumble because they wanted it to be a surprise. And it was. I don't think a highlight package equals a heel turn, even though I would like to see it.

I am still trying to figure out that main event. Aren't there other ways to get the Survivor Series title match over besides jobbing (sometimes twice!) 3 decent wrestlers in one match?

Not a very good Raw.





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Spaceman Spiff
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Since: 2.1.02
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by hayden
    Week after week, I keep thinking that Batista's act is much better suited to heeldom, with the chuckles and that cocky smirk that always seems to be on his face. Am I alone in thinking this?

No, he'd make a great heel. He's already totally unlikable to me now, and he's pretty much become a big whiner, character-wise. How many more title matches must he get after failing to win the title for what seems like a year? Plus, it helps that he's reportedly an ass in real life.

As for Cena, they'd be nuts to turn him heel. The guy is arguably the biggest draw in the company, responsible for bringing in tons of kids & women as fans, and was top face for the company's most profitable year ever. Why take a chance to screw that up? The WWE's all about marketing to kids to build fans for life, and making their (returning) hero Cena a bad guy just would go counter productive to that end. While a heel Cena would undoubtedly be extremely entertaining, business-wise it would be a really bad idea (see Austin's heel turn).

Heel Batista vs. face Cena could/should absolutely be a HUGE Wrestlemania money match for the company.



Reverend J Shaft
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Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

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#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 0.76
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    I just want these montages to do more than sell a guy the majority of the WWE audience has already bought.


That's exactly why I think the E is planning a heel turn for him. Sure, the Royal Rumble return was a surprise - couldn't this return be one as well? If a guy is up and walking the afternoon after his surgery, he's obviously set to return more quickly than otherwise believed.

And I'm definitely not saying he'd return as a heel. All of the montages would be counterproductive to that end. But I'd love to see a heel turn shortly after he returns to see if he can generate the same heat he does now, despite the questionable business-sense of turning a guy heel who's hugely over with the kiddies.

JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.14
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
    The booking for the IC belt looks like this: Haas wins the belt at CyberSunday and is challenged by JBL for his first defense angle.


If they have people paying real money to vote for Piper, HTM, or the bizarre one Goldust, and then didn't actually deliver them, I think they could technically be sued for fraud. You can't bilk the Goldust constituent.

    Originally posted by SpacemanSpiff
    Heel Batista vs. face Cena could/should absolutely be a HUGE Wrestlemania money match for the company.


I think you've hit on it. Batista will get the belt in the threeway with Cena and Jericho at Armageddon (if that sticks), turn heel on Cena, and Cena will have to challenge the Man He's Never Beaten for the title.

(edited by JustinShapiro on 21.10.08 1458)
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

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#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.40
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    If they have people paying real money to vote for Piper, HTM, or the bizarre one Goldust, and then didn't actually deliver them, I think they could technically be sued for fraud. You can't bilk the Goldust constituent.

    Wouldn't that be covered by the "card subject to change" disclaimer? Not that I'm rigidly defending my suspicion of the Haas angle.

    I'd LOVE to see a slimmed down and motivated Dustin come back as Goldust. The scuttlebutt was that he was asked to come back as a high midcard heel earlier this year but passed on it. Whatever the means to bring him back, I'm for it.



    "To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
BigDaddyLoco
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Since: 2.1.02

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#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.36
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro

    I think you've hit on it. Batista will get the belt in the threeway with Cena and Jericho at Armageddon (if that sticks), turn heel on Cena, and Cena will have to challenge the Man He's Never Beaten for the title.

    (edited by JustinShapiro on 21.10.08 1458)


I'm not really a Batista fan either way, but that would actually work for me. It would make sense, he sure isn't winning many big matches being the good guy.


I don't think a real Cena heel run would work. I just think he has to be that face that people don't get behind 100%. He's a freakin' mama's boy
redsoxnation
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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 510 days
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#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.79
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      The booking for the IC belt looks like this: Haas wins the belt at CyberSunday and is challenged by JBL for his first defense angle.


    If they have people paying real money to vote for Piper, HTM, or the bizarre one Goldust, and then didn't actually deliver them, I think they could technically be sued for fraud. You can't bilk the Goldust constituent.








You have to give Vince credit though: He has found a way to get a buck a pop (or at least a percentage there-of) off of people voting rather than the zero a pop he used to get off of online voting. Probably make more off this than WCW ever did off the Hotline, and there is the additional benefit of not having to pay Okerlund.


(edited by redsoxnation on 21.10.08 2036)
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