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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #748 9/24/07 (Page 2)
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R-Dub
Mettwurst








Since: 25.8.05
From: Michigan

Since last post: 254 days
Last activity: 106 days
#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.44
    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    Why are people so upset about HHH squashing Carlito? At least it's not someone that matters. HHH should be able to beat him with two of his fingers. Carlito is a JTTS.


Because Carlito could be so much more. He has a decent moveset, he is over with the crowd, he is good on the mic, and he has charisma. I don't dispute that he is currently a JTTS, but he shouldn't be. Randy Orton has none of those abilities. Let Orton chinlock his way to JTTS status and elevate Carlito. I know that will never happen because any extra screen time given to Carlito would steal screen time from Mr. McMahon. And we can't possibly have seen enough of him "wrestling". I guess it's good to be king.

Sec19Row53
Lap cheong








Since: 2.1.02
From: Oconomowoc, WI

Since last post: 8 days
Last activity: 1 day
Y!:
#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 7.20
    Originally posted by spf
    I kind of dug the Jeff Hardy/Candice Michelle partnership last night. She often looks like one of the few people on the show who really wants to be there.

Here's an article talking with the "hometown girl", Candice:

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=666071

Back to Mr. McMahon, the wrestler. Will he now be subject to Wellness Policy testing since he's wrestling again?
The King of Keith
Lap cheong








Since: 4.11.02
From: Winchester, VA

Since last post: 343 days
Last activity: 302 days
AIM:  
#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.03
    Originally posted by R-Dub
      Originally posted by The King of Keith
      Why are people so upset about HHH squashing Carlito? At least it's not someone that matters. HHH should be able to beat him with two of his fingers. Carlito is a JTTS.


    Because Carlito could be so much more. He has a decent moveset, he is over with the crowd, he is good on the mic, and he has charisma. I don't dispute that he is currently a JTTS, but he shouldn't be. Randy Orton has none of those abilities. Let Orton chinlock his way to JTTS status and elevate Carlito. I know that will never happen because any extra screen time given to Carlito would steal screen time from Mr. McMahon. And we can't possibly have seen enough of him "wrestling". I guess it's good to be king.




He doesn't put forth the effort to take himself to the next level, though. He coasts and dogs matches. I stopped caring about Carlito months ago. If he left tomorrow I wouldn't miss him a bit. Carlito only has himself to blame for being a JTTS.



Hail to the Redskins!
Captaincuba
Italian








Since: 25.10.05

Since last post: 262 days
Last activity: 137 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.61
    Originally posted by CRZ
      Originally posted by JustinShapiro
      SAVE_US.222

      JERICHO

      I needed that tantalizing treat badly, because this week I was wishing for the Hornswoggle quad tear.

      (edited by JustinShapiro on 24.9.07 2317)
    It's sad that that ten seconds was the most exciting thing on the show. I dutifully freeze-framed it and was amazed to see the directory listing of all their old bumpers (LiveWire? Jakked? WM99? What ARE these shows? Not to mention bumpers for Skittles and Lugz amongst other things) and didn't make the connection - a bunch of them are from...1999 apparently?



CD_VOLUME4_1 - was one of the listings...

Track one on Vol 4 is 'Break The Walls'

Also, there's an audible "I'm back" about halfway through.

I'd link the video, but I don't want to get nailed by CRZ if it's against the rules.

Maybe we should open a new thread so as not to derail the Raw thread.

CC

(edited by Captaincuba on 25.9.07 1139)
JustinShapiro
Scrapple
Moderator








Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 4 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.67
    Originally posted by Deputy Marshall
    But seriously, RAW is going to be so much better once Jericho gets pedigreed to Hell by HHH in his second week back.


Ah ha, but Jericho will be negotiating from a position of strength like when Mick Foley was on the verge of signing with TNA and ended up with creative control. Of course, it's the same control over his programs that now has Vince, Hunter, and the writers all resenting him for wanting to do his own ideas, and thus not using him for anything except one-fifth of a title match with no promo time.

Still, maybe Chris can get a No Triple H clause.

    Originally posted by Rdub
    Randy Orton has none of those abilities. Let Orton chinlock his way to JTTS status and elevate Carlito.


I think Randy Orton is significantly better than Carlito. That said, the reason the Hunter/Carlito postmatch was an eyeroller was because it's just plain silly that H would need to look that strong just to ensure he gets his heat back for losing a fluke to Vince.
R-Dub
Mettwurst








Since: 25.8.05
From: Michigan

Since last post: 254 days
Last activity: 106 days
#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.44
Justin,

Really? Significantly better? Wow, I just don't see it. I don't want to seem like a jerk, but what makes you say that? I don't think Carlito is the next big thing, but I just don't have a very high opinion of Orton.

TKOK,

You are right, he does coast and he should put forth more effort. He has a bad attitude and he gets lazy. I just believe he has more upside than a lot of other wrestlers, so I don't like seeing him jobbed out. I just have to get used to it, because whether I like it or not, that is his role right now, and will be for quite a while.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
    Originally posted by JustinShapiro
    That said, the reason the Hunter/Carlito postmatch was an eyeroller was because it's just plain silly that H would need to look that strong just to ensure he gets his heat back for losing a fluke to Vince.


It's pretty clear that Hunter is the non-title main event right now, and he had to Pedigree somebody to send the fans home happy. If he's in a match with Vince/Carlito, and Vince manages to escape the cage to win (stupidly eschewing the door to give us an elongated climbing sequence), that leaves Carlito to eat the finisher.

This makes more sense than Hunter Pedigreeing the Hooliganz, anyway.

Does it bury Carlito? Carlito's on TV and not sitting out a suspension. His handicap team got the win. if he was defeated by the magic of Hunter again beating two guys for the second consecutive week and then he took a post-match beatdown, yeah, that'd would be on-sided. But Carlito is playing the Kenny to this new version of Hunter vs. Vince. Kenny lost for months before he was moved to SD and seemingly buried.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33
    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    Why are people so upset about HHH squashing Carlito? At least it's not someone that matters. HHH should be able to beat him with two of his fingers. Carlito is a JTTS.


Well, because he is a young, talented guy who the fans seem to care about? How can anyone ever "matter" if they are constantly made to look so pathetic on TV? Should the tag champs matter? Or King Booker? They have all been made to look like chumps since HHH returned. I have never been a big HHH hater, but sometimes it is so obvious that he is not interested in the future of the company, and you would think he would be considering he might run it some day.




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2016 days
Last activity: 1950 days
#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
The fans haven't cared about Carlito since the very start of his face turn. And Justin's bang on the money - Carlito is nowhere near the Orton level of heel awesomeness. Facial expressions, promos, wrestling....Orton blows him out of the water.

The people that say Orton has no charisma....astonishing. He's one of the most natural heels in recent memory.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Caliban
Chipolata








Since: 18.5.02
From: Orlando

Since last post: 190 days
Last activity: 11 hours
#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.71
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    The people that say Orton has no charisma....astonishing. He's one of the most natural heels in recent memory.


Being a douche that people don't like doesn't make him a natural heel. It just makes him a douche.

Plus, I'm entertained by Carlito. I cringe every time Orton gets announced as coming from my hometown.
sentonBOMB
Frankfurter








Since: 25.11.02
From: Jersey

Since last post: 2003 days
Last activity: 704 days
#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.52
    Originally posted by Caliban
    Being a douche that people don't like doesn't make him a natural heel. It just makes him a douche.


I've always thought that a heel is supposed to be some douche people don't like.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 2016 days
Last activity: 1950 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by Caliban
      Originally posted by oldschoolhero
      The people that say Orton has no charisma....astonishing. He's one of the most natural heels in recent memory.


    Being a douche that people don't like doesn't make him a natural heel. It just makes him a douche.

    Plus, I'm entertained by Carlito. I cringe every time Orton gets announced as coming from my hometown.


Good for you. When I see any sign out of Carlito that he could pull off the matches that Orton's had and the heat that Orton's gotten over the past few months, I'll start to be entertained too. Show me a crowd that's reacted to Carlito the way the SummerSlam crowd - or even the terrible Unforgiven one - reacted to Orton, and we'll talk.

There really is no possible way to objectively outline why Orton is better than Carlito, especially not to the guys that think Orton is one of the worst wrestlers ever. So I'll just say it: you're entitled to your opinion, but it's innaccurate.

For the record, I'm not defending Hunter's ass-backwards booking. But Carlito's been scuppered for a long time, and in no small part due to his own laziness.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
rvjgd
Linguica








Since: 17.8.03

Since last post: 2614 days
Last activity: 2423 days
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#33 Posted on
"LiveWire? Jakked? WM99? What ARE these shows?"

Not sure you really care, but LiveWire was a recap show shown here in UK on Sky where Coachman or some other lowly announcer would just introduce clips from Raw and Smackdown and talk about the feuds. Saturday morning job. JAkked was Metal re-arranged with matches in reverse order for some god-forsaken reason.
Wpob
Lap cheong








Since: 21.11.02
From: Williston Park, NY

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 1 day
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.26


Being a douche that people don't like doesn't make him a natural heel. It just makes him a douche.


This is so true. Orton has XPAC heat - people hate him just to hate him. Not because they are SUPPOSED to hate him as a heel. It is genuine hate and disdain for a man who has no charisma and no business being in a main event ever again, let alone holding the title.

HE should be in the IC mix - that's it.



Fry crack corn and I don't care
Leela crack corn I still don't care
Bender crack corn and he is great
Take that you stupid corn!

"just because you ARE a character does not mean you HAVE character.."
kentish
Andouille








Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

Since last post: 4 hours
Last activity: 4 hours
#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.33
Perhaps if Carlito was given the type of pushes Orton has (undeservedly) received over the last few years, he might be able to generate that type of heat too.

I think Randy is better in the ring than many give him credit for, but he has what seems like manufactured charisma, IMO. Everything he does or says seems so scripted, rarely do I believe anything he says. Compare that to Flair, HHH, HBK, Bret, or some of the better heels of the past.

Comparing Randy and Carlito as heels is not really fair. They are different types of heels, with very different levels of opportunity to create heel heat. They say Carlito is lazy and unmotivated, so he doesn't get his shot at the main event. Fair enough. What has Randy done in the last year to even deserve a job?




"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

-- Mahatma Gandhi
CRZ
Big Brother
Administrator








Since: 9.12.01
From: ミネアポリス

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ICQ:  
Y!:
#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
    Originally posted by rvjgd
    "LiveWire? Jakked? WM99? What ARE these shows?"

    Not sure you really care, but LiveWire was a recap show shown here in UK on Sky where Coachman or some other lowly announcer would just introduce clips from Raw and Smackdown and talk about the feuds. Saturday morning job. JAkked was Metal re-arranged with matches in reverse order for some god-forsaken reason.
ZOOM



I am not this guy
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.00
    Originally posted by Wpob
    This is so true. Orton has XPAC heat - people hate him just to hate him. Not because they are SUPPOSED to hate him as a heel. It is genuine hate and disdain for a man who has no charisma and no business being in a main event ever again, let alone holding the title.


If I knew nothing about his backstage demeanor and alleged scandals, Orton would be my favorite wrestler. Any badwill I have toward him is because of the prevalent rumor mill.

He's wildly inconsistent on the mic, but he's a fantastic heel.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
redsoxnation
Scrapple








Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 508 days
Last activity: 508 days
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.57
On Jericho being pedigreed by Week 2: I have to strongly disagree. It would take 5-6 months of extremely solid work by Jericho for him to be deserving of receiving the rub that is the pedigree. Now, I wouldn't bet the over on Jericho being de-balled in 2 weeks, but I would bet the under of Jim Ross slipping and calling him Chris Benoit within 2 weeks.
As for Carlito, he is just another victim of Torrie Wilson Syndrome. Nothing kills a career like TWS.
spf
Scrapple








Since: 2.1.02
From: The Las Vegas of Canada

Since last post: 19 days
Last activity: 5 hours
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.16
    Originally posted by redsoxnation
    On Jericho being pedigreed by Week 2: I have to strongly disagree. It would take 5-6 months of extremely solid work by Jericho for him to be deserving of receiving the rub that is the pedigree. Now, I wouldn't bet the over on Jericho being de-balled in 2 weeks, but I would bet the under of Jim Ross slipping and calling him Chris Benoit within 2 weeks.

No way. Vince sent the whole company to Lacuna, Inc. to forget Chris Benoit ever existed.

I would love to see Jericho back, but only if they always keep him on the same side of the heel/face fence as HHH. NEVER let them interact. Whenever they do, squashing ensues.
Kei Posiskunk
Kolbasz








Since: 7.1.02
From: Central PA, USA

Since last post: 172 days
Last activity: 122 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.53
    Originally posted by The King of Keith
    Why are people so upset about HHH squashing Carlito? At least it's not someone that matters. HHH should be able to beat him with two of his fingers. Carlito is a JTTS.


Because There isn't a midcard in WWE anymore. There's just main eventers and jobbers/JTTSs. And is it stands, RAW only has 3 main eventers. Orton, Cena, and HHH. Everyone else is squash fodder.

Nobody can get over that way.






Creeping you out since 2004
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Congrats Lance. I totally chocked on WM weekend and went from 1st to 3rd. Masters and Carlito let me down big time heh. And I wasn't smart enough to pic Rey. But yes, fun time this season.
Related threads: RAW #747 9/17/07 - RAW #746 9/10/07 - RAW #745 9/3/07 - More...
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