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The W - Pro Wrestling - RAW #714 1/29/07 (Page 2)
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Freeway
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Since: 3.1.02
From: Calgary

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#21 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.07
I dug the Flair/Cena interaction, especially for the throwback to Shawn Michaels turning on Hulk Hogan to "make an impact" last year. Continuity!



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kentish
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Since: 19.8.05
From: My Old Kentucky Home

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#22 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.79



There might be a flesh-colored bodysuit stuck in his size in the back of the WWE closet.


Ok, now you're scaring me.




Dean! Have you been shooting dope into your scrotum? You can tell me! I'm hip!
SKLOKAZOID
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Since: 20.3.02
From: California

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#23 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.94
I really do hope they do Cena/Taker(/HBK) and Batista/Benoit at WM. The predictable main events aren't compelling this year. Cena/HBK could be a good match, but I don't care for another Michaels title run. Benoit could use another run, and if Cena beat Taker, history is made, or if Taker beats Cena, at least Cena got beat by a fan favorite.
Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 155 days
Last activity: 155 days
#24 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.77
    Originally posted by SKLOKAZOID
    . . . if Cena beat Taker, history is made, or if Taker beats Cena, at least Cena got beat by a fan favorite.


Yea...stupid history is made. Despite everything they may try to do, this is NOT WrestleMania III and neither Cena nor Undertaker are or in positions of Hogan and Andre (and I say that as a fan of theirs). Cena isn't Hulkamania running wild and the Undertaker's streak pales compared to Andre's billed 15-years of unbeateness.

If Cena beats Taker . . . so what? It doesn't do anything when you think about it. Fans (and/or smarks) will continue to crap on Cena no matter what even with that "history-making" win under his belt...so it won't do anything to further solidify or improve Cena's standing in their eyes. Maybe the casual fan, but they won't comprehend the magnitude of Taker's streak.

In conjunction with this is the status of the streak. Ok, now Undertaker is beaten, 15-1 or whatever. Well, now all that mythos surrounding him (being the Phenom, untouchable at WM, etc.) and his winning is all gone and Undertaker effectively becomes just another guy (in the winning/losing sense).

And even if Taker retires in a year, it still applies. There's no pomp and circumstance that surrounds him leaving WWE.

I mean, what sounds better:

Undertaker: Who on the biggest stage in the history of wrestling, with belts on the line and all of WM's inherent pressure, faced the biggest and best of pro wrestling and beat them soundly. . .like only a phenom could manage to do with all of those factors.

OR

Undertaker: Who on the biggest stage of them all, with belts on the line and all of WM's inherent pressure, faced the biggest and best of pro wrestling and beat them . . . except this one guy.

Undertaker has to retire with his streak in order to stay relevant to WWE and wrestling.





It's just a message board, people. Chill out.
Peter The Hegemon
Lap cheong








Since: 11.2.03
From: Hackettstown, NJ

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#25 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.29
You really think that if Taker loses one match at WM, it's going to make him irrelevant in retirement? I don't see that at all.

The whole point of his streak is that someone will end it. I'm not saying that someone should be Cena (then again, I don't think he'll be wrestling Cena this year anyway), but before he hangs it up for good, someone should get that rub.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

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#26 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05

    Undertaker has to retire with his streak in order to stay relevant to WWE and wrestling.

If/when he retires, why would he need to stay relevant to the WWE and/or wrestling?

Besides, Taker has been arguably the most protected guy in the company. Losing 1 match isn't going to kill his heat/mystique, especially to the top face & 1 of the top draws in the company & a guy expected to carry the company into the future.



Reverend J Shaft
Liverwurst








Since: 25.6.03
From: Home of The Big House

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#27 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.97
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    You really think that if Taker loses one match at WM, it's going to make him irrelevant in retirement? I don't see that at all.

    The whole point of his streak is that someone will end it. I'm not saying that someone should be Cena (then again, I don't think he'll be wrestling Cena this year anyway), but before he hangs it up for good, someone should get that rub.


I agree 100% with this. I, personally, despise the Undertaker and cannot understand why he is so popular. AFAIK, he's never given a rub to anyone by jobbing cleanly and the most famous matches he's been involved in are famous because of his competitor (HBK, Mankind) or because of how horrible they are (Taker vs. Taker, Yokozuna @ Rumble, Giant Gonzalez, etc.). I guess the kids like the creepy funeral music being played (for the billionth time) and the lights going out.

However, if there is one good to come out of all of this it is that Taker can give someone an incredible rub by jobbing clean at WM to that person. IMHO, Cena's as good a candidate as any. Last year proved he can keep up with the big boys like HHH. This year could go a long way towards cementing his legacy as a Hall of Famer in the WWE.

And Taker can afford the loss. People give a crap about his gimmick, not his WM winning streak.
Matt Tracker
Scrapple








Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
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#28 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.26
    Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
    IMHO, Cena's as good a candidate as any. Last year proved he can keep up with the big boys like HHH. This year could go a long way towards cementing his legacy as a Hall of Famer in the WWE.


It surprises me to the extent that they are pushing Cena as a tough wrestler. If we only go back as far as his first title reign, he beat JBL, a brawler with an 11-month reign. He then beat Triple H at WM to retain after losing half the audience support. He lost to Edge only after taking two finishers delivered after Cena survived the Elimination Chamber. He beat the undefeated Umaga twice, and now he might beat Taker, ending his WM streak.

That's a lot of investment for a guy who still manages to polarize the crowd. I have no preference for the potential Taker/Cena match. But my eyebrows do go up at the possibility that Cena, of everyone they could have chosen, would be the guy who gets those bragging rights.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker

My blog will amuse. (heygregory.blogspot.com)
ekedolphin
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Since: 12.1.02
From: Indianapolis, IN; now residing in Suffolk, VA

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#29 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.29
    Originally posted by Matt Tracker
      Originally posted by Reverend J Shaft
      IMHO, Cena's as good a candidate as any. Last year proved he can keep up with the big boys like HHH. This year could go a long way towards cementing his legacy as a Hall of Famer in the WWE.


    It surprises me to the extent that they are pushing Cena as a tough wrestler. If we only go back as far as his first title reign, he beat JBL, a brawler with an 11-month reign. He then beat Triple H at WM to retain after losing half the audience support. He lost to Edge only after taking two finishers delivered after Cena survived the Elimination Chamber. He beat the undefeated Umaga twice, and now he might beat Taker, ending his WM streak.

    That's a lot of investment for a guy who still manages to polarize the crowd. I have no preference for the potential Taker/Cena match. But my eyebrows do go up at the possibility that Cena, of everyone they could have chosen, would be the guy who gets those bragging rights.


Cena also humiliated Chris Jericho in their feud which I think should have been a little more even. Their concert face-off ended in a default win by Cena because Jericho and Fozzy refused to perform, and Cena beat Jericho every single time in the ring-- even in a "You're Fired" match in which post-match Jericho got dragged away kicking and screaming by security.

He also won his feud with Kurt Angle, which thankfully was a little more even, but I think there ought to have been at least one double-title-switch involved in there somewhere.

Other than his feud with Edge (which I've loved,) it seems the only high-profile losses Cena has suffered recently have involved Kevin Federline! First K-Fed costs him the Champion of Champions match at Cyber Sunday, and then K-Fed himself pins Cena with interference from Umaga.

Anyhoo... I don't at all think it's a foregone conclusion that Cena and Taker will battle at WrestleMania (though I think that's the best title match they could do out of the three). But if they do, I don't think Cena should be the one to end 'Taker's winning streak. In fact I don't think it should ever be broken. I'd have 'Taker go over Cena at WrestleMania, and Cena regain the title somewhere down the line-- or better yet, remove Cena from the WWE Title picture for a couple months, give him something else to do besides being the champion.



"Hurt me if you must, but let the duckie go."
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oldschoolhero
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Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

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#30 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Why are you all suddenly in favour of even-steven booking? Cena's been put over strong. That's a GOOD thing. You book everyone to be equal, and no-one gets over.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
Matt Tracker
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Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 1 day
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#31 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.25
    Originally posted by oldschoolhero
    Why are you all suddenly in favour of even-steven booking? Cena's been put over strong. That's a GOOD thing. You book everyone to be equal, and no-one gets over.


I guess I never perceived Cena as a strong enough performer to warrant the booking. His character has been distilled into a unremarkable smart-ass fighter, leaving me without any reason to root for him. I find his enemies (except K-Fed) generally more interesting.



"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker

My blog will amuse. (heygregory.blogspot.com)
Whattaburger
Boerewors








Since: 18.5.04
From: Badstreet USA

Since last post: 155 days
Last activity: 155 days
#32 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.73
    Originally posted by Peter The Hegemon
    You really think that if Taker loses one match at WM, it's going to make him irrelevant in retirement? I don't see that at all.

    The whole point of his streak is that someone will end it. I'm not saying that someone should be Cena (then again, I don't think he'll be wrestling Cena this year anyway), but before he hangs it up for good, someone should get that rub.


So, tell me then...who the hell is Undertaker if he gets beaten? It's not as if his gimmick has been consistent enough to say "well, it's all about his gimmick," because it's changed up and varied so much.

Secondly, it's all about that WM legacy, what else is there for some of these guys? What was the whole point of HBK/Hogan? To see who would have the greater legacy in the end (which btw, Hogan over HBK is the best decision ever, but I digress).

Bret's been out of WWE for 10 years, yet pushed so hard for a DVD, why? Because he wants to be remembered. No one at the level guys like Hogan, HBK, Taker or Bret is doing anything other than for legacy. Except Flair, but despite what people say, his routine matches doesn't mean he can still "go." He needs the money. I will say though, you can argue that Taker is a more "loyal" company guy with a different story than someone like Bret.

And say Taker sticks around another year, hypothetically. Come WrestleMania...what build can you give him? Nothing, he becomes totally irrelevant competing on that platform.

Furthermore, it doesn't matter if Cena has been built up to all awesomeness because there's still a GREAT NUMBER of people who don't and refuse to accept him. It won't do anything for Cena because people will still boo him and be smarky about him and whatever. It isn't Hogan who was strong going in against Andre. Or Warrior who was strong going in against Hogan. This is a guy who people crap on. Kinda hard to "carry the company into the future" when as the champion NOW, a good chunk hates of people hate your guts.

And besides, why not have just let Orton beat him? It would have helped Orton a lot more as a "legend killer" to end the streak. Not to say he is more over with the fans than Cena, certainly taking it from the-W, he's not -- but if you want to say it's all about the gimmicks, it would have made a lot more sense for the guy who beat HBK, Flair, Foley (/Rock), whoever else, beat Taker.

The only way it works is if Cena beat Taker, Taker is done the next day. Because there's nothing left afterward. Taker is a big player but he doesn't have that "Champion" gimmick that someone like Hogan or Flair has/had.



It's just a message board, people. Chill out.
Spaceman Spiff
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 19 days
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#33 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
The booing of Cena has taken a DRAMATIC downturn ever since he started the feud w/ Edge. Does he still get boo's? Sure, but nowhere near the level he was getting before.

And I still fail to see how the only thing Taker has going for him is his WM streak. Everybody is booked to shit their pants whenever Taker shows up and glares at them. Losing at WM isn't going to change that. Arenas don't pop huge for him every time he shows up just because he's undefeated at WM. To say his whole appeal is "undefeated at WM!" is ridiculous.

(edited by Spaceman Spiff on 31.1.07 1822)


hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#34 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
    Originally posted by Whattaburger
    And say Taker sticks around another year, hypothetically. Come WrestleMania...what build can you give him? Nothing, he becomes totally irrelevant competing on that platform.


The streak was first brought up at Wrestlemania 17. Since then, the streak has always been background to his feuds, with an bigger overriding story to the match

17: HHH has never beaten Undertaker
18: Taker has made Flair's life a living hell (GREAT feud, btw)
19: Nathan Jones first match (theoretically)
20: Kane buried him alive, Taker is back as a dead man
21: Orton is the legend killer, looking for a new legend to kill
22: Mark Henry cost him the title

Henry is the weakest one, as he really was just a warm body to feed to the streak, but everything else would have been a fine feud if Taker lost to King Kong Bundy years ago. There is no reason to think that with Undertaker not having a streak any longer that he will stop having interesting feuds.



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JustinShapiro
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Since: 12.12.01
From: Pittsburgh, PA

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#35 Posted on | Instant Rating: 8.47
Undefeated At Wrestlemania only comes up in February and March anyway. The rest of the year he's The Phenom The Legendary Undertaker. He's not going to turn into a pumpkin (or Ric Flair) as soon as he loses at WM.


    The streak was first brought up at Wrestlemania 17. Since then, the streak has always been background to his feuds, with an bigger overriding story to the match


For sure. Really the Orton feud was the only one that revolved around the streak itself. The rest just padded the number.

I don't think Cena/Taker is going to happen and I don't think Taker is going to lose to Batista. But some day someone should and will end that streak, because wrestling is fake and all achievements exist to set up the next guy's achievements.


(edited by JustinShapiro on 31.1.07 2023)
flairforthegold13
Kishke








Since: 1.5.03
From: Gainesville, FL.

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#36 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Why are people still acting like John Cena is some fad? He's not Lesnar. He's the mega tippy top star in the WWE (and as a result, all of North America). I'm sure the E realizes it. Cena will be around a long, long time. With H's career inevitably winding down as a everyday player over the next few years, Cena will continue to be pushed to the moon. Saying people "can't stand him" or whatever is silly at this point. Cena's a huge draw, sells tons of merch and has carried the company as the champion for about 2 years now. He's one of the few guys who busts his ass every night and he's healthy. He doesn't even NEED to beat the UT to validate himself.

Regarding the streak... I mean, I'd be down with Batista winning, sure. Don't have no beef with Batista. The thing with the streak now is that no matter who ends it, people will bitch. It's taken on a life of its own come Mania time. I'd have him lose well after he's in retirement/special appearances mode. Have him come back to fight some young punk and lose, ala Foley.


I never got around to commenting on Raw and there's no point going in depth, but I did want to point out that Chris Masters is totally the best current performer in that tag match he had. Carlito continues to be the worst opening match ROH-type performer ever, Crazy does fat lucha in slow-mo, and Doane is wrestling like mini-Orton. Masters is getting kind of awesome. I said it.
oldschoolhero
Knackwurst








Since: 2.1.02
From: nWo Country

Since last post: 1948 days
Last activity: 1882 days
#37 Posted on | Instant Rating: 9.00
Masters has been doing just since, dare I say it, a few months before his extended sabbatical last year. He's not Chris Mortedeski: Five Star Machine or anything, but he's pretty carriable and gets good heel heat.



To those who say people wouldn't look; they wouldn't be interested; they're too complacent, indifferent and insulated, I can only reply: There is, in one reporter's opinion, considerable evidence against that contention. But even if they are right, what have they got to lose? Because if they are right, and this instrument is good for nothing but to entertain, amuse and insulate, then the tube is flickering now and we will soon see that the whole struggle is lost. This instrument can teach, it can illuminate; yes, and it can even inspire. But it can do so only to the extent that humans are determined to use it to those ends. Otherwise it is merely wires, and lights, in a box.-Edward R. Murrow
hansen9j
Andouille








Since: 7.11.02
From: Riderville, SK

Since last post: 16 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#38 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.33
Masters has been my guilty pleasure for the past year or so. It's especially how he's turned a simple full nelson into a believable finisher (helped in large part by good booking). And for someone as seemingly green as him, there have been three times in the past year where he's had the Lock slapped on in a multi-man match, where someone has come out of nowhere to nail him with a move (RVD -> sunset flip, Benji -> blockbuster, Super Crazy -> missile dropkick), and there was no hint by him that it was coming, but each time he sold the move perfectly. That's some good ringsmanship.



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Andouille








Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 13 days
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#39 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.04
As Flairforthegold said, anyone who breaks the streak will be crapped on. I see that as a reason not to do bother having anyone go over him. That finish, no matter what, will have X-Pac heat all over it. It would make much more sense to let Edge talk about his own streak at 'Mania for a few more years and let someone break that before it becomes this booking monolith.

Cena is the man right now. I'd say they're out of the woods, or almost, with the fans turning against him. And they wouldn't have done that in the first place if the E hadn't completely amputated the rapping part of his gimmick, which was as essential to his getting over in the first place as cursing was to Austin's and flexing was to Hogan's. The other part of what got those guys over is booking them strong, which is also done with Cena. I don't think he's ever going to be a bigger draw than he is now, but neither is anyone else on the radar at the moment. So they have every reason to go with him.

Re: Masters...He also sold the back-cracker as well as I've ever seen it sold. He is coming along nicely. The rap on Carlito, from what I've heard, is that he isn't the kind of committed zombie that Vince likes. It's just a job to him, and it is fairly well-known around the business that he only became a wrestler in the first place because his father wanted him to. He's apparently got a brother who is the lives-and-breathes-it type Vince prefers. No idea why they haven't gone after him yet.



Was It Something I Said?
CHAPLOW
Morcilla








Since: 14.5.04
From: right behind you

Since last post: 89 days
Last activity: 89 days
#40 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.10
So people are starting to like Masters huh?
I remember when most here were referring to him as that big "pile of crap"...how times change.

Undertaker is the next Champ, that's pretty much a given... or is it?!

What if WWE or the Undertaker has decided that Cena is the guy deserving of Taker's streak breaking?! It's a long shot but Im getting a creeping feeling that they've at least considered it.

The other thing I've thought is that maybe Taker is getting ready to retire, and he's doing one last title run. He IS getting old guys.

Well, just speculation (sorry), we'll really have to wait til Mania.
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Well, Lyle Alzado comes to mind. However, I don't think that a Congressional investigation is necessarily so awful for the WWE. Sure, the Congressmen want to wag their fingers...
Related threads: RAW #713 1/22/06 - RAW #712 1/15/07 - Raw 1/08/07: That bad? You betcha! - More...
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