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The W - Pro Wrestling - Raw 7-5-04
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Since: 1.2.02
From: Appleton, WI

Since last post: 2058 days
Last activity: 2058 days
#1 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.38
Fighting evil by moonlight, winning love by daylight, never running from a real fight, because it is time to WAKE UP! It's also time for Raw, live from Winnipeg, Manitoba...and a Fashion Report, too!

Flair, in blue sportscoat, grey skacks and white shirt, walks to the ring, where Lawler, Stacy, Tajiri, Tomko, Referee Chad Patton, and Coach, await. Jericho, in blue "Jets" tshirt and shiny black pants, comes out. There are chairs in the ring - oh no, they're gonna play musical chairs. Eugene, in black sportscoat over the white jacked and blue undies, comes onto the stage. Eugene books a game of musical chairs; the winner gets a title match later tonight. Tajiri is eliminated; he mists Coach. Coach is eliminated; Lawler, Stacy, and Flair follow. Jericho nails Tomko with the chair before he takes a seat, winning (you just knew someone would use a chair sooner or later). Eugene books Jericho vs. Orton for the IC Title. This segment went on too long.

La Resistance, in sparkly blue/white vests and blue "La Resistance" undies, carrying Quebec flags, Sylvan singing, vs. Rhyno, in black "Rhyno" singlet and Val, in purple "Livin Large" undies. DarkHairedReferee (later refered to by JR as "Chris Kay") is the official. Au revior->pin on Val. An average match.

In the back, Randy bitches to Flair and Batista about HHH's being nice to Eugene (the seeds were planted last week with an expression; this week he gets words out). Meanwhile, Eugene bounces in his office, an inflatable castle play area for children. Eugene books Batista vs. Kane. Eugene books Flair and Eugene vs. La Resistance at Vengeance.

HHH, in grey suit and light pink shirt, comes to the ring to cut a promo on Benoit. Edge, in black face-print tshirt and blue jeans, runs down and gives HHH a message to give to Evolution: he will take-out Evolution. Fisticuffs ensue, then Evolution runs-off Edge.

Kane, in black tights with red barbedwire stripes, vs. Batista, in grey flamin' crotch "Batista" undies. Jack Doan is the referee, in stripes. Mid-match, Mattitude is out to get some licks on Kane. Officials haul off Matt. Kane wins by DQ.

Moments ago, three sentences ago. In the back, Todd Grisham catches up with Matt to get a reaction. Matt is intense. When asked about Lita, Matt gets quiet. Gosh, Todd, way to not have any tact.

Diva crap. A few minutes of it.

Randy, in black "Orton" undies with gold scrawls, wearing the IC Title, vs. Jericho, in sparkly purple/pink "JerichO" silhoutte shirt and black silhoutte tights, with FOOTAGE! of him winning an award earlier today. Chad Patton wears the stripes. Batista strides down to ringside, along with AdBreak.

Cont. Orton keeps working Jericho's left arm. Jericho bleeds from the mouth. Orton gets a rollup, with feet on the ropes, for a pin. A good match.

In the back, HHH and Eugene jump (both wearing their boots - shame on them) in the office. Flair comes on the scene, upset at HHH for not getting Eugene to un-book the tag match at Vengeance. HHH does announce, though, that tonight Eugene has booked Eugene, Flair, and HHH vs. Benoit and Edge.

Smackdown! is the minor leagues.

In the ring, Nidia, Molly, and Victoria compete in an "envelope on a pole" match. Trish, with Tomko, join commentary. Jack Doan officiates. Nidia gets the envelope. Post-match, Trish talks and decks Nidia, then pins the unconscious Nidia.

Again with the Divas. Again, not with a 10-foot pole.

JR and Lawler blab about divas, then give the rundown on the Vengeance card.

In the back, Trish talks and Tomko listens. They meet Lita, who is spending time by the catering table (eating for two, now). Meanwhile, HHH pshyches-up Eugene, poisoning the water for the upcoming match.

HHH, in black ironcross undies, Flair in red/gold sequined "Nature Boy" robe and black "RF" undies, and Eugene, in jacket and blue undies, vs. Edge, in white "Edge" trenchcoat and white "Edge"-splat tights and Benoit, in black tights with blue slashes, carrying the Title belt. Mike Chioda is the official. Benoit is loathe to wrestle Eugene; he lays-off when Eugene is in the corner. Benoit is tossed outside, where Flair works him over. So why not let AdBreak get some time.

Cont. Benoit's still being beaten on, only this time it's in the ring. Edge gets an errant shot on Eugene, which makes him freak. But once Edge is hurt, Eugene eases-up. Eugene is about to chairshot Benoit, but Chris talks him out of it. But when HHH, in the sharpshooter, calls for help, Eugene delivers the chair to Benoit. HHH->pin on Benoit. Nice match.

Overall: On par with other recent episodes. Much less bad (Diva, Lita/Matt/Kane) than previous weeks. Again, the Evolution/HHH/Eugene plots were my favorite segments.

(and Hiroko isn't at ringside for you to oogle).

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Since: 24.7.02

Since last post: 1789 days
Last activity: 1789 days
#2 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.38
Did Jim Ross actually imply prior to the main event that the RAW writers were better/more creative than Shakespeare? I think Good Ol' J.R. really needs to be put in a home after that one.
Well, I think I've seen it all now that I've seen Ric Flair playing musical chairs. Have to admit, at least he had fun with it. Would have made more sense though to have Flair be the last man with Jericho rather than Tomko.
Hopefully the Hands of Stone of Trish will prevent any future title match for Nidia. To make NHS happy about the injury, perhaps we can presume Trish was injured trying to pleasure Lillian.
Shouldn't the Edge/Trip face-off have been saved until next week, presuming they go in that direction for SummerSlam?
I guess the Canadian love of La Resistance doesn't extend outside of Quebec.
They may have made a huge mistake with Eugene. Letting him play along the face/heel line they could get away with him being manipulated, but an overt heel action as the chair to Benoit might have caused them to finally screw up the Eugene character.
The Kane/Matt Hardy issue can be interesting if they continue to keep Lita as far away from it as possible. Also, not having her and Stacy have any more bonding moments (bondage moments might be allowed) is also an improvement.

(edited by redsoxnation on 5.7.04 2320)

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Texas Kelly
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Since: 3.1.02

Since last post: 234 days
Last activity: 52 days
#3 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.91
Instant Vengeance booking based on the show tonight:

Benoit over HHH
Orton over Edge
Jericho over Batista
Eugene/Flair over La Res
Kane over Mattitude *sigh*

Of course, later on, we can all wonder what the hell I was thinking, especially on the tag match. Of course, though, having HHH's plan backfire and then be stuck with Eugene after the fact would be a great way to go.

    They may have made a huge mistake with Eugene. Letting him play along the face/heel line they could get away with him being manipulated, but an overt heel action as the chair to Benoit might have caused them to finally screw up the Eugene character.

I'm not so sure. Nick did a hell of an acting job post-swing, and if the payoff on Sunday is Eugene "righting his wrong" and helping Benoit retain (which is the route they should go) then it's not a screw-up at all.

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Since: 8.6.02
From: Canada

Since last post: 407 days
Last activity: 407 days
#4 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.41
A lot of positives on the show. Call me crazy, but I enjoyed the musical chairs stuff---laughed out loud a couple times.

Jericho carries Orton to what was easily the best match he's had. That Foley one wasn't so hot, IMO. Finish should have been Jericho winning, then the ref doing some screwy reversal of his decision. The crowd was insane for that match and the usual Orton wins with a weak roll-p finish that they clearly intend to run into the ground should have been changed to suit the occasion.

Edge is apparently getting the Booker T runs through the nWo push of two years ago. Only this time they might actually do it. Edge isn't over anywhere lately, and I hate to say it but it will never happen if he doesn't do one of those spot-fests again.

Main was all right but the long drawn-out Trips/Eugene manipulation promos need to be shortened. Once is fine, but he's really done the same thing for a few weeks now and if it's not going to be new, it doesn't need to be so long-winded.

Triple H has never looked worse than he looked in there tonight. It was scary bad, he really seemed like he might hurt himself or someone else. Just fat, weak and off-balance. If anyone needs some time off it's this guy. Nice finish, with conflicted Eugene and all. Compelling stuff, but it won't sell PPVs.

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Evil Antler God
Potato korv

Since: 10.1.02

Since last post: 4249 days
Last activity: 2375 days
#5 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.27
Eugene attacking the chair directly afterwards was an especially nice touch

Gosh, wasn't even looking at the screen when the Diva crap began, and thought for a moment Rodney Mack was making his return. So cruel they are

Had to feel bad for Lita. After all, it's not like Trish was LYING or anything with her comment

Potato korv

Since: 11.12.01
From: Valparaiso, IN

Since last post: 2637 days
Last activity: 1971 days
#6 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.70
I love the in-ring wrestling as much as the next guy, but if you didn't like musical chairs with wrestlers and wrestling personalities then I don't know what to say to you. It had LAYERS

* Lawler and Flair exchange a WTF
* Stacy is into it!
* Lawler follows, he is a pervert
* Music stops, wrestlers freak out
* Coach laughs at Tajiri
* Tajiri mists Coach
* Coach sells mist throughout the entire song, falls on ass
* Jericho exhibits great skill at musical chairs from the get-go, slowing his pace near every chair
* Tomko does the same - this perfectly explains why they were the last two
* Lawler further pervs it up
* Flair gets into it
* Flair gets TOO into it and is eliminated because he couldn't stay focused

This was great. Great great great. If you think otherwise, you probably hate parties and ruin all the ones you go to, Debbie Downer.

dotcom // // let's go hero
The Vile1
Lap cheong

Since: 4.9.02
From: California

Since last post: 3322 days
Last activity: 3054 days
#7 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.65
This Eugene stuff is really beginning to annoy me. Why can't it just be Benoit vs. HHH for the title this Sunday? Why the frick does Eugene need to be involved? To me this is the equivalent of when that fricking dog and Stephanie got involved with the title match at Wrestlemania 18 and it suffered because of it. And Benoit's been pretty absent in the whole angle as well. He's the world champion dammit, its not right.

"Don't compare my arm to your cheap arm!"
-Edward Elric

Since: 27.4.04
From: Atlanta

Since last post: 1943 days
Last activity: 1942 days
#8 Posted on | Instant Rating: 1.79
Random Raw thoughts:

-Jericho seems a hell of a lot skinnier than he was during his Undisputed Champion days. Still I'd like to see him as champ again very soon.

-6 Days away from Vengeance and this does not look good. Even though only about seven people bought the Great American Bash, it's still too close for another ppv. I'm expecting a very low buy rate for this one.

-Even though Dinsmore played his cards absolutely perfect tonight with his faces, the direction Eugene took tonight was wrong. Eugene sucks chants already = bad.

-Diva search...still don't care. Wrestlemania 2000 theme song, yippee.

-GAWD, Edge sucks ass at promos. He's just a horrible face and singles wrestler all together. Put him back with Christian or get him off my damn screen.
Lap cheong

Since: 18.6.02
From: North Cacalacky

Since last post: 3251 days
Last activity: 856 days
#9 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.66
I really enjoyed the musical chairs segment. Most of the time, when WWE tries goofy comedy, I find it stupid and unfunny. However, there were several laugh-out-loud moments here, such as Lawler & Flair chasing Stacy, and Flair getting eliminated via strutting.

Personally, I am LOVING the Eugene/Evolution angle. While most WWE storylines are cookie-cutter angles, this one has many layers and could go in several different directions. This is probably the first WWE storyline that I've been really interested in, in a long time.

The answer to WWE's financial problems...

Never 'Wiener of the Day', and is actually quite bitter about it.

Since: 17.3.02

Since last post: 3685 days
Last activity: 3661 days
#10 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.17
Yeah, there's a lot of different ways for them to go with this Eugene thing, and Vengeance can do a lot to set up the storylines going into Summerslam. Heck, it seems like they're already setting up the feud to get HHH kicked out of Evolution. No one else dares to turn on him yet, but if he doesn't win the title...?

Since: 3.10.02
From: Right side of the tracks

Since last post: 3 days
Last activity: 5 hours
#11 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.34
First off, My goodness Nidia looked hot tonite! Loved the new get up! It holds in her new assets and shows off her behind.

Otherwise, crowd was insane for Jerrico, and rightly so. He put on a great effort.

HHH/Eugene segments = GOLD, no matter what the outcome!

Diva search came on, and my satalite died, came back on when Y2J was on the way to the ring. THANK YOU CLOUDS AND RAIN!

Main even was good, Eugene was torn between his friends and doing what was right, and his friends won out, I am sure he will make things right next week.

Lita looked extra busty tonite. At least she didnt say anything. Matt looked extra gutsy tonite, at least HE didnt say too much. Kane looked extra musty tonite. Sorry, was on a role there.

Overall, enjoyable show, musical chair was great, as was Eugenes office.

Still not convinced anybody should be afraid of Edge, unless they have some strange tooth/chin phobia.

Thank you for your irrelevant opinion.

Doe, Ray, Me, Fa, So, La, TITO SANTANA!

Since: 6.1.02
From: Pittsburgh, PA

Since last post: 7 days
Last activity: 3 hours
#12 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.28
    Originally posted by Juggalo101
    He's just a horrible face and singles wrestler all together. Put him back with Christian or get him off my damn screen.

Well I just can't agree with that. Has his comeback been a bust? Sure. Is he a convincing badass face? No. But to say he is a horrible face and a bad singles wrestler is being to harsh. The guy has been a very successful face before. Both as a tag team, before he and Christian turned heel, and when he first broke from Christian up until he got injured. And to say he is a bad singles wrestler is crazy also. He can go with any of the upper mid carder to main eventers, I mean the guy has had the match of the night two raws in a row before this one and in the past he's put on great matches with Eddie, Kurt, Benoit, etc.

Lance's Response:


Since: 23.3.04
From: Dublin, Ireland

Since last post: 5027 days
Last activity: 4871 days
#13 Posted on | Instant Rating: 2.72
That was my first EVER live Raw (I usually have to wait until Friday) so pardon my over-enthusiasm but I have to rank that one up there with any of the WM-hype shows and the quadruple main event.

I mean you had a HILARIOUS piece of work in the opening angle, setting up the excellent mid-show sub-main event; you had a hot crowd althroughout; you had more hilarity in the backstage segments involving GM Eugene (I'm definitely tired of this yet); an incidental main event and a major plot twist with Eugene hitting Benoit with the chair. Hell, even the filler was better than usual with a very easy on the eye tag match, an entertaining as always Trish showing off her heel skills during both the well-worked womens match AND the backstage segment with Lita, and the girls in the Diva Search were HOT. Sorry, but when you put women in bikinis in front of me during an otherwise good show, I see no reason to complain.

Maybe after a while the hyperbole will die down, but one still can't discredit WWE for putting on a show where the only minus seems to be that it WASN'T a PPV rush-job. I can live with that.

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Since: 25.4.03
From: Nashville, TN

Since last post: 305 days
Last activity: 189 days
#14 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.61

RAW was just kinda "there" for me ... nothing spectacular. Jericho should have been put in the main event since he was in his hometown. But his match with Orton was solid. Jericho could make even me look like a million bucks in the ring.

Regal should have been on the show in some capacity. With his history with Eugene, that story should have more focus.

I wonder what 2 or 3 other matches we'll get for Vengeance? At least there has been a better build for it that the GAB.

Please Christian, come back soon. Your uber-heelness is so missed.

Go banana.

Since: 2.1.02
From: Under the table

Since last post: 4902 days
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#15 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.67
You know what irked me? HHH goes on for several minutes about how "Darwin was right", everything evolves, etc.

Then Edge comes out and HHH does a 360, and goes over the number of opponents he's beaten and how nothing ever changes.

And so we get to the moment of truth. Edge's response. I thought for sure they were going to be smart about, and have him point that out. But nope, they stay with HHH's 2nd point, and Edge does what opponents usually do. :p

It's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone undershorts.
Kane Is Ugly

Since: 14.7.03
From: Uglyville

Since last post: 3734 days
Last activity: 3720 days
#16 Posted on | Instant Rating: 3.62
Trish looks awfuly good in a hat and cast. Too bad her commentating really sucks. For some reason, when she is saying anything during her match, it seems like her voice is half muted. You can barely hear anything she says. And she seems to have people talk over her, so that doesnt help.

Also, the Ric Flair strut during musical chairs is awesome. I am gonna do that next time I play that.

I miss the GWF.

Since: 13.7.02
From: Austin

Since last post: 48 days
Last activity: 6 days
#17 Posted on | Instant Rating: 6.05
I enjoyed this Raw from top to bottom, and I dare say it's been a very, very, very long time since that's happened. Some highlights:

*Musical chairs. I agree with the positive feedback on this one... this was very well-done. Nothing to add.

*Ric Flair easily had the line of the night with "I'm going to throw up right now! I'm gonna throw up!" I don't remember the last time I laughed out loud.

*The Eugene storyline with Benoit and Evolution might have just tempted me into buying the PPV, believe it or not. Dinsmore is doing a fantastic job with this... I never expected it.

"Maybe I'm getting off topic, but this thread already sucks, so I don't feel bad about it. " -LotusMegami
Head cheese

Since: 4.4.03

Since last post: 4671 days
Last activity: 3955 days
#18 Posted on | Instant Rating: 10.00
    Originally posted by leggo
    the girls in the Diva Search were HOT. Sorry, but when you put women in bikinis in front of me during an otherwise good show, I see no reason to complain.

Ugh, you find those women attractive? Some of them are but it seems like most of the ones kept are fake looking to me. Every time I see the girls cut versus the girls that are kept I ask myself who does the picking, but that's just me. I am more attracted to natural looking girls.

I agree with Mayhem, this show really needs Christian back as a upper-tier heel...and thank god they didn't give away Kane/Batista as a throwaway match, I am preying that they get a nice long feud a few months down the road.

Ralph Wiley: Sorry, we had a chat room accident. It was like Freaky Friday. In fact, like Lindsay Lohan, I just inexplicably grew a pair of 36D's. --quote actually during an ESPN chat when Bill Simmons accidentally was put under Ralph Wiley's name
Matt Tracker

Since: 8.5.03
From: North Carolina

Since last post: 2 days
Last activity: 58 min.
#19 Posted on | Instant Rating: 5.84
    Originally posted by Kane Is Ugly
    Trish looks awfuly good in a hat and cast. Too bad her commentating really sucks. For some reason, when she is saying anything during her match, it seems like her voice is half muted. You can barely hear anything she says. And she seems to have people talk over her, so that doesnt help.

    Also, the Ric Flair strut during musical chairs is awesome. I am gonna do that next time I play that.

I thought Trish stole the show with her character. Yeah, the commentary was muted, and she needs to talk louder or they need to turn up her mike. Her post-pole match mic work was outstanding, condescending to Nidia with sweetness and then yelling at the ref to start the match. She carried the Tomko/Lita skit by herself and made them both look like amateurs. She had attitude and confidence and wit, working the mic better than Edge and Orton. If she really is out of action for awhile, make her the third commentator, let her develop a rhythm with JR and Lawler (not like that, you perv) and I think she'll add some needed spirit to the two hours of RAW.

And Lita, well, it's that quality of acting that killed Brando.

(edited by Matt Tracker on 7.7.04 1311)

"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Spaceman Spiff

Since: 2.1.02
From: Philly Suburbs

Since last post: 65 days
Last activity: 2 hours
#20 Posted on | Instant Rating: 4.05
    Originally posted by Quezzy
    And to say he is a bad singles wrestler is crazy also. He can go with any of the upper mid carder to main eventers, I mean the guy has had the match of the night two raws in a row before this one and in the past he's put on great matches with Eddie, Kurt, Benoit, etc.

That just shows that he's carryable. As a member of the "SD6", he was probably 5th or 6th of that list of guys, which isn't that bad, but there were still guys on SD not in that grouping that were better than him. I wouldn't count on Edge to carry lesser workers to good matches.

Is he "bad"? No. I'd probably slot him in as "average".

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Truer words were never spoken. They should at least have all the matches on Smackdown have Tale of the Tape. It helps distinguish Smackdown from Raw.
Related threads: RAW WORKRATE REPORT 6/28/04 - Raw 6-28-04 - RAW WORKRATE REPORT 6/21/04 - More...
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