Originally posted by TheCheatKane should *NOT* be retreating from Shane McMahon, period.
Y'see I have no problem with it really. Shane, a guy with a history as a 'giant killer' comes from nowhere and starts beating the shit out of him with a chair. Obviously confused and probably wishing to get away from the source of pain (crazy dude with chair) Kane backs up. Attack stops, Kane realises whats happened and laughs it off. He's not even angry about the atack because even after taking what looks like a prety bad beating he is not in the slightest bit intimidated by Shane.
What I do have a problem with is the idea that Kane is to scared to 'provoke' Austin. Austin (both in storyline and reality) is a broken down guy pushing 40 with a neck so screwed up he is no longer allowed to wrestle. Kane is supposedly an unstoppable psychotic monster who snaps at the slightest provokation. He is also someone who took everything Austin had a couple of weeks back and turned around and chokeslammed him. And yet now not only is Austin able to taunt Kane (who previously snapped if you looked at him funny) he is also able to offer him first shot and still we get nothing. Colour me confused.
I guess I'm overanalysing things and they're maybe just trying to build an Austin/Kane fight for down the line but this really annoyed me for some reason.
Other than that I'm genuinely interested in seeing how they play out Goldberg/Flair next week, but by golly do I wish they would get Booker and Christian the fuck away from each other and on to pastures new.
Right now, the only possibility I can see -- the only GOOD possibility, I should say -- is that they have an Austin/Kane match in mind, but they're going to hold it off until Unforgiven or Survivor Series. So they're planning to do a slow-burn angle where Austin is the only guy Kane won't touch, so it has a lot more psychological impact when Kane finally snaps and goes after him. Which is okay, although I wouldn't be enthusiastic about two months of "Hit me, Kane!" "No." "C'mon, you yellow? Hit me!" "No." "Come on, you son of a bitch!" ...
If Austin can't wrestle, period, then I really don't see the point of him challenging Kane, because there's no way Kane can answer back. But that's already been hashed out pretty well on these boards.
"I do have a degree in electrical engineering... from almost 20 years ago. Punchcard systems were just becoming obsolete, we had rotary phones in the dorms, and a modem was still a gizmo the size of a shoebox into which you squooshed the phone receiver itself. In short, we lived like animals.
The instant obsolesence is why I became a writer. The rate of punctuation in a sentence doesn't double every 18 friggin' months, and you never have some 22-year-old looming over your shoulder, shaking his head, saying "dude... you're still using adverbs...?"
dMr: >What I do have a problem with is the idea that Kane is to scared to 'provoke' Austin. Austin (both in storyline and reality) is a broken down guy pushing 40 with a neck so screwed up he is no longer allowed to wrestle. Kane is supposedly an unstoppable psychotic monster who snaps at the slightest provokation. He is also someone who took everything Austin had a couple of weeks back and turned around and chokeslammed him. And yet now not only is Austin able to taunt Kane (who previously snapped if you looked at him funny) he is also able to offer him first shot and still we get nothing. Colour me confused.<
Very good point. If WWE was into continuity, I'd say that Kane won't strike Austin due to respect. 1)Austin's trying to free what truly lies inside of KAne 2)Austin beat him for the WWF/E title. Even though Kane is a monster bah gawd, he is still a wrestler. And maybe that is the one thing that is keeping him half way sane. For now.
I can't believe all the bitching going on here. That last segment made Kane look so unbelievably tough. He refuses to give Vince or Austin what either of them want, and then when Shane comes out and starts attacking he just wanders off. I never even thought of it as retreating until I saw the board, I saw it more as Kane telling everyone to go fuck themselves- he was going home. So Shane starts wailing on him with a chair- but it doesn't even faze him! Then he gets pushed over the edge of the stage AND GETS UP! No one ever gets up! And he laughs- it didn't even faze him! I haven't been this excited about wrestling in ages. This match-up makes perfect sense to me. Shane can come at Kane with all his crazy offense, it doesn't effect Kane in the least, and then Shane gets thrown through six flaming glass plates or something.
Also, my apologies to DEAN, but Shane's got the best theme on the planet.
I vote Gail Kim stays. While there's certainly room for her to improve, at least she was someone NEW. I for one am sick of the same old Molly-Trish-Victoria carousel. (and if they were sending people out just for blown spots, Trish would've been sent packing a long time ago) Kim's got athletic ability and it IS possible to learn on the job (this is the women's division, after all). Either give me Ivory, or give me Kim!
PS -- You can debate the (de)merits of Shane-Kane all you want, but can someone please tell me how he keeps that towel on his head? Is there a tiny square of velcro hidden in his baldo stubble? IT AIN'T NATURAL.
Originally posted by sheaI vote Gail Kim stays. While there's certainly room for her to improve, at least she was someone NEW. I for one am sick of the same old Molly-Trish-Victoria carousel. (and if they were sending people out just for blown spots, Trish would've been sent packing a long time ago) Kim's got athletic ability and it IS possible to learn on the job (this is the women's division, after all). Either give me Ivory, or give me Kim!
I have nothing against Kim learning as she goes, but she shouldn't be asked to literally learn the ropes while she carries the title. I agree with you that more women need to be brought in for the division. There's no reason why there can't be more midcard women's matches to allow them to learn as they go. Kim could have gotten some type of fanbase leading to her title reign.
The fans had no idea who she was, what her personality was, what she could do, what her finisher was (to give the matches suspense) or why they should root for her. And then she was sloppy. She had a chance to run with the ball, and she's just not ready. Not yet.
You can debate the (de)merits of Shane-Kane all you want, but can someone please tell me how he keeps that towel on his head? Is there a tiny square of velcro hidden in his baldo stubble? IT AIN'T NATURAL.
I think he has just enough stubble to snag the towel into place.
And I look forward to seeing Shane customize a Kane shirt to mock him as he did with X-Punk.
"To be the man, you gotta beat demands." -- The Lovely Mrs. Tracker
Last two weeks Raw is going somewhat of a downward pattern. 2 Weeks ago the show was fantastic, last week a bit of a downward motion but still a decent enough show, this week seemed a very average to slightly below average show, except for the last segment.
-Booker/Steiner vs. Christian/Test- This is really scary to say but for me the most interesting man in this match is Test. The IC title resurrection has be so disappointing and done poorly since Day 1 with the Battle Royal instead of a tournament. Everyone here seems very stale the match was okay but nothing shined that you'd expect from a match that goes 10 minutes.
-Goldberg vs. Richards- Squashberg bets Richards in a minute... HHH comes out and talks. Flair vs. Goldberg in Canada next week, prediction Flair is cheered, Goldberg is booed. Wooooo
-Venis vs. Rico- Euw, Val's gimmick is just so tired, why can't he find something else, it's so tired. Rico's okay, I don't think this gimmick is working. Match was decent I did like the spot in the corner where Rico did a jump kick and Val caught him and power-bombed him from the corner.
-Highlight Reel- Well glad to see Evolution T-shirt doesn't have the same powers of the NWO Tees. Remember WCW-NWO tees the announcers would freak saying "OMG OMG NWO shirt, is he joining. What does this mean!!" Hey sometimes giving a T-shirt means nothing but a friendly gesture. LoL @ Jericho unable to return the gesture because his t-shirts are all sold out... Orton's interview delivery had me laughing. "The call me the legend killer"(pause and gives this cheesy look to the crowd) then a little later "I'm going to Kill the legend Shawn Michaels"(same pause and same cheesy look to the crowd), Don't know why I bursted out laughing. Sorry but I also found funny hearing a pop and you know someone is coming out and taking 20 seconds to get in the ringside I figured it was Nash around the 14 second mark LoL. Well I thought HBK delivered a good promo.
-Nash vs. Jericho- this match was painfully slow, it's just dragged.
-La Resistance vs. Jendrick/Cade- 8 minutes with overlapping segments! First part of the match showed nothing, second part was a bit better the double-team drop kick by the faces were okay. This match is greener then a sprite can(actually what I'm drinking right now)... Can the Dudley's please have more of a reason to hate Resistance then just because their french, I know there's more to it then that. Right?
-Molly vs. Gail- Molly Wins! Even though I've been critical of Gail I didn't expect them to pull the plug so suddenly. It seems like they are sending her back to OVW because she lost the belt so suddenly without questions. I think it would be best for Gail, she just seemed so out of place in ring and even her body language. This match was probably Gail's best, she took an impressive bump when Molly reversed the running up the ropes and threw her to the floor, but again almost all of Gails transition offence is some sort of 'carana. Spot of the night was the beautiful Molly-Go-Round, I gotta admit I marked... I must say surprised they choose Molly. Victoria seems to be much higher on the heel depth chart. But hey Molly's fantastic and congrats to her. As for Gail, this whole thing was more WWE bookings wrongdoing then her, she did the best of her abilities they just over-estimated them.
-Vince/Kane/Austin interview- This was the best segment of the night. I *sometimes* get a kick when Vince gets all over the top intense like he did to Kane, calling him a Frankenstein LoL. Austin comes out and does pure wrestling cheese that I love so much, he pretty much spells out the only scenario he can attack Kane(right in front of him) and then he tries to trick Kane in hitting him, just classic! LoL With insults like "Look at you with your stupid towel and your red & black tights"(ohhh Austin dissing Kane's tights, THAT'S GOING TOO FAR HAHA)... I'm a Shane-O fan, so I like seeing him back. He went after Kane full of emotion and blasted him with a chair and knocked him over the side of the stage where Kane no-sold. I think it worked on all levels.
-other stuff- Rosey & Hurricane skit was (well take the K out add an H LoL)... Not much else going on except for Lillian's pink see-thru top = niceness
-Line of the Night: Jericho "I'll give you a t-shirt as well but mine just happens to be all sold out" -Sign of the Night: "Kobe = Guilty" haha last week in LA it was all Free Kobe -3Stars of the Night: 1)Molly. 2)Lillian. 3)Austin- I guess, seriously except for Molly's win nothing really in-ring had me interested. Austin get's 3rd by making me laugh and Lillian gets 2 for a total shallow reasoning of her wearing a see-thru pink top.
It was tough to pick 3 highlights tonight. With the exception of the last two segments nothing was that good. Highlight Reel had it's moments
cause there's limits to our liberties. 'Least I hope and pray that there are, cause those liberal freaks go too far.
I'll crush all opposition to me And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay If he fights back, I'll say that he's gay
I really had trouble sticking with the show. I found myself frequently changing the channel or leaving the room.
I know I'm nit picking here, but I was really annoyed with the SS press conference and how Goldberg showed up in a limo wearing a suit. Aren't Triple H and co. supposedly to be the "living the high life" guys whereas Goldberg is supposedly the "No bullshit, fuck you up" guy? I know it probably doesn't matter and most everyone won't notice either way, but it just really bugged me.
I was never really on the Gail Kim bandwagon so I could care less what they do with her now. Ship her off to OVW for the next few years, have her never return, whatever, it doesn't matter. I'm not really big on the women's division. As long as Trish shows up once in a while, I'm happy.
Jericho is a trooper. Stalling and slowly scooching back so Nash could grab his legs. He did his best to hold it together, which is why he'll be blamed for the failure of the segment. ;)
In order to get through that Kevin Nash match, I began counting the times that Nash left his feet. The grand total was *5* - Two chopblocks, one sidewalk slam on offense, one bulldog, and one double leg sweep. He braced himself going down on the chopblocks, sidewalk slam was on his ass, bulldog on his knees, and he kinda sat down for legsweep.
Also, it's been *FOUR* weeks without a Main Event match. It wasn't so bad last week with HBK/Jericho but I'm getting tired of them ending the show with 20 minutes of Sportzzzzz Entertainment.
I was quite bored with Raw on the most part. The women, and the Highlight Reel were the only good spots I could remember. The rest was rather bleh. Kane and Shane? I'll continue to reserve my judgment on this. But does this mean that Vince was happy Linda was beat up or not? Sable wants an answer, Big Mac!
Randy Orton "The Legend Killer", sounds real good. I'd love to see him and HBK go at it. Like I said, the women were good. I really didn't expect Molly to get the title back. But, Gail is getting better all the time, so I have no problem with her at all. Molly simply rules. Where was Trish? The woman who carried Stephanie McMahon two years ago? The most improved wrestler on the continent last year? No Trish makes me sad....
Goldberg and HHH, well I'm not commenting on that either. I'll just say that Raw was on autopilot last night, and they can't afford to do that on the road to Summerslam, they really can't.
Originally posted by Tenken347... but if you didn't thoroughly enjoy the last half hour of that show, I don't know why you even watch pro wrestling. ... Shane (and his theme) makes a triumphant return. You know, someone on this board is always asking for Shane to come back, and now that he does, all I see is bitching. And for those of you who keep saying that Shane isn't a wrestler, well, his matches so far sure had me fooled. The only reason Kane left the ring was so that he would be up on the stage for the spot. I never even really thought about why he'd leave, because within about a minute I saw what they were setting up. And the end, with Kane just laughing at Shanes best offense, that was priceless.
Well, here I come, NOT bitching! I was sorting through some baseball cards and happened to be looking down when Shane's theme hit, and I believe the words out of my mouth were, "Ooohh!! Shane-Oooo!!!" Yeah, I marked out like I was 14.
Originally posted by dskillzHas Shane been working out? He looks like he has.
Exactly the first thing my girlfriend said. I hope he hasn't been dipping too deeply into daddy's medicine bag.
Originally posted by Toast JrI can't believe all the bitching going on here. That last segment made Kane look so unbelievably tough. He refuses to give Vince or Austin what either of them want, and then when Shane comes out and starts attacking he just wanders off. I never even thought of it as retreating until I saw the board, I saw it more as Kane telling everyone to go fuck themselves- he was going home. So Shane starts wailing on him with a chair- but it doesn't even faze him! Then he gets pushed over the edge of the stage AND GETS UP! No one ever gets up! And he laughs- it didn't even faze him! I haven't been this excited about wrestling in ages.
Plus, no one has mentioned that Shane was bringing those chairshots from left field. Those weren't Hogan-on-Nitro-chairshots, those were closer to Rock-versus-Mankind-I Quit-chairshots. Three swinging stiff shots that bent the hell out of the chair and sent Kane off the stage through a table. And what did it do?
Shane accomplished his goal. He did what he could to avenge his mother. Now his going to get destroyed. And it's gonna be great!
I only managed to catch the last segment on RAW last night, but it was an interesting one.
They started doing the right thing, in regards to Austin and Kane. Austin and Kane got into it two weeks ago, both giving each other eveything they had, and Kane realized that Austin - despite having a broken neck or whatever - can hurt him. Austin won't take Kane's shit, and he's ready to defend himself if he tries anything.
This week, WWE cooled things down to build tension between Austin and Kane.
...Then they ruined it all by bringing Shane out and having him punk Kane.
Austin may be a cripple, but he's still more or less the voice of the fans, and possibly the most popular face in WWE, still. He's the babyface figurehead that won't back down, which is a refreshing change from the usual and a return to the untouchable figureheads of old. I like it. The guy is still popular enough to the point where he should be going over other people, because to do anything else would just result in a storyline where Kane just goes over everyone without facing any roadblocks. That's boring, people.
But, yeah, Shane ruined it.
I know people are all up-in-arms about new guys going over established superstars, but there are other traits that the characters have in WWE besides "young" and "old."
This was a "not bad" show, which is good by WWE standards lately...It seems like I've seen Booker/Steiner v.s Christian/Test match about a million times now. I guess because some combination of these guys have been fighting every week, so the matches all seem the same...Goldberg v.s Stevie was what WWE should've been doing MONTHS AGO for Goldberg...Venis v.s Rico was too long and the wrong guy went over...Nash v.s Jericho- Nothing to say here...I actually enjoyed the French Team v.s The Two Rookies match. Go figure...Molly v.s Gail Kim- A good match, finally Molly wins. Once again, no hype for the title matches. That's just embarassing. I feel bad for Gail now though...The M.E interview was okay. I don't have a problem with Shane-o-Mac being in the mix, defending his mother I assume.
Originally posted by darkmatcherCongrats to Molly. Now there's a woman who can truly wrestle and I actually enjoyed the match with Kim, due to her ability to carry. I don't usually put over women's wrestling but Molly is a hell of a talented worker. And Gail, get some training and come back better, I know you have at least potential to be a decent wrestler.
I honestly feel Molly is becoming Vince's 21st-Century Moolah. Get someone new over, go to Molly. If something's not working out with the champ and they need a transitional one, go to Molly. It really reminds me quite a bit of the use of Moolah in the mid-to-late 1980s.
On last night’s Raw, Vince compared Kane to the Frankenstein monster, and seemed to be implying that he wanted to take on the role of Dr. Frankenstein. The two characters reminded me even more of a couple of characters in a favorite novel of mine. The protagonist says about them, “In your amoral flashy freakiness, do you actually imagine you control this elemental?” (Extra credit if you can identify the source of that quote…) I think this could be a very cool dynamic between Vince and Kane. Vince has this monster he thinks he can use as a tool for his own ends, but Kane is just biding his time, and will destroy Vince in the end.
On the other hand, Kane refusing to fight does not fit his new character very well. He could have used a little mic-time to explain his reasons. A brief, “I will tear you to pieces… But I will do it when you’re NOT ready for me,” would have improved that bit immensely. The heel should always have a non-cowardly excuse for backing off from a confrontation, like HHH’s excuse that he won’t fight Goldberg till he’s getting paid for it. That excuse is perfect for HHH, but wouldn’t work for Kane. Hopefully they’ll give him a chance to clarify his motivation for refusing to fight Austin next week.
Another bit that I thought was hurting the “New Kane”, but the end made it all better, was the confrontation with Shane. At first I was thinking that Shane was getting too much offense in, but then Kane sat up after two chairshots straight to the head, and a fall from the staging area (the wrestling equivalent of death). And then laughed. That ruled.
What can I say, I’m a mark for the new Kane.
Was there anything non-Kane related that was particularly noteworthy last night? I don’t think so, with the very slight exception of Molly pulling a not-awful match out of Gail. And becoming the new Women’s Champ! Oh, and HHH’s promo on Goldberg was pretty cool.
(edited by sergeial on 29.7.03 1205) "A true champion knows how to deal with adversity."-- Kurt Angle
I understand that people don't like the McMahons and don't want to see them on RAW. But Shane and Vince had to be on RAW last night. Linda was tombstoned last week. For the sake of continuity her son and husband had to be there to confront Kane.
And the Kane character gets more interesting. Last week, when the shackles came off he destroyed everyone. This week even when Vince made fun of him, Austin begged him, and Shane attacked him, Kane didnt do anything. Just laughed it off. I think this is good stuff.
Ziggler continues to impress me every week. I can only imagine how many ways he can hit that finisher of his. It looks painful, and it happens so fast...the last time i was that impressed with a finisher, it was when I saw the RKO for the first time.