Originally posted by Ramblin Wreck Ok, so I admit my ignorance and confusion with these things. If the contest is indeed rigged, why are the other girls still participating? Do they not know they have been set up to fail, even if people call and vote for them? Or do they know they won't win, and yet still subject themselves to humiliation because of some desire to be on TV at any cost, or a contract they signed, or what?
Well, that's the thing: if you want to fix it, you only tell ONE person, and not any of the others. You can't guarantee that the other girls will cooperate if they know it's fixed. After all, what happens if they balk and say that they won't pretend anymore unless they get more money? So, if you're going to fix it, you'd at most tell the girl who's going to win. (Better yet, don't tell her, and make her work for the fixed prize.) Telling her is only a necessary thing if she won't participate in the competition at all without a guaranteed win. But, really, the other girls would not and should not know. If you fix it and tell one person, then only one person gets rewarded. If you fix it and tell ten people, then you have to pay all of them, because then they're no longer satisfied by competing for the possibility of the reward, and all that TV exposure just seems like a poor consolation prize.
Perhaps I am thinking too much, but these girls are doing a bit on live TV for the next two months. Do none of them any way to read reviews of the segments, they don't have any news sources from week to week to learn that it is a fix?
Up until now they have demonstrated a complete ignorance about wrestling and wrestling divas. They seem totally lost in the wrestling environment. Given that, how would they know the first thing about reading reviews of their work? A google for "Diva Search" brings up the WWE site first. After that, it brings up sites that strike chords with "IWC" people. But do you think a wannabe diva is going to take seriously anything from the sites that also show up on the search results? Sites with bad designs? Or sites with good designs and "dorky wrestling internet fans" writing for them?
I'm trying to understand how, if say the wrestling fan base voted overwhelmingly for Tracie (afro girl), the WWE wouldn't sign her instead of Carmella, or perhaps sign them both. I somehow find it hard to believe that the other 8 girls are competing for absolutely nothing.
If reality TV has taught us anything, it's that competing for absolutely nothing is something that lots of people are willing to do, because most of them don't win anything at all. What they get to do is appear on TV. And that seems, in the end, to satisfy plenty.
How many people are going to vote for the one that they want to get voted off this week? At this point this whole thing has turned into a bad idea gone worse. I'm pretty sure Vince is just running it to prove to himself that he can still get girls to make asses out of themselves just because he can.
Does he even care about the channel switching going on during the segments? Surely his adveratisers might. I'd like to see the quarter hour breakdown to be sure. It could be some of the poorest televion on right now and not even that original considering you can see Stern getting girls to act like idiots on E every night. Then again it is Vince's money and Vince's show so maybe it's worth it to him. Although knowing Vince I just fear some of his up coming perversians.
God I hate ORton. He is so sloppy and his timing is awful. I stopped counting how many times he was suppossed to stay down and wait for the other wreslter to get up when he would pop up early and then stagger around. If he wins the title off of benoit, I will throw a brick through my TV (not the plasma, my kids little TV). The only good part of the Battle was the possible Edge heel turn and potential feud with jericho. Jericho needs a new angle and has to get away from Christian/Tomko/Trish. Edge would be a good feud for him while he waits (in vain?) for a title shot. Really, a blah battle royal with a horrible ending. Jericho v. Benoit would have blown the roof off in Canada (or anywhere) and would have been a great ME for SummerSlam. Now, Orton/Benoit is just OK because as good as Benoit is (and he is plenty good) I can not see him carrying Randy to a **** match because Randy suck big time.
What the fuck? I hate Vince. I really do. He takes a potentially humorous angle liek Kamala and ruins it by having him interact with these no talent hacks. None of them are any better looking than Molly, Trish, Staci, Dawn, Jackie or Ivory. And none of them can probably wrestle. Vince could have gotten himself out of this horror show by telling them they had to seduce a WWE sueprstar for 5 minutes or face immediate elimination and have the superstar be Mae Young. All the women balk at that as Mae goes all nuttl lesbo on them and the contect ends NOW and Vince makes all the fans happy. But since Vince does not give a shit about any of his fans, we are subject to this for a few more weeks. Last night was the worst TV bit ever. Not just on RAW, but in the history of TV. I think they turned the house mics off because you heard no reaction from the crowd and I am sure that they were booing thr fuck out of this segment.
Meh. It was OK but formulatic. I found myself clicking off for a while because it was not holding my attention. The worst part was at the 30 minute mark (I think) after thirty minutes of wrestling, Benoit has HHH in the sharpshooter and HHH spends what seemed like 5 minutes powering out of it and reaching the ropes only to be dragged back to the middle of the ring where he proceeded to hold on for a little lingfer while almost powering out three times. This from the cerebral assasin? Isn't the smart move to tap out quick to save your strength and back so benoit has to release the hold? I knew at that point Benoit would win, I also know it would not be clean. And how about Eugene? Someone posted it earleir (I forget who) but the right thing would have been for Eugene to spend a minute of so fending off Evolution until HHH gets the upper hand on him letting Benoit save Eugene and cleanly pin HHH. Now we have benoit getting an assisted win over HHH (and it is not clean in my book) and the end of the show has the focus on HHH and Eugene instead of Benoit. Fuck HHH. Even when he takes the L, he keeps the spotlight on himself. The HHH/Eugene feud will be the front and center feud the next couple of weeks leading to SummerSlam and there is no way that this is not the last match of the night. HHH would never allow it.
Blah. Some parts of the Iron Man match were stellar but the ending left a very bad taste in my mouth. The Rumble saw the wrong person win. Orton should have eliminated Edge and then jericho eliminates Orton, leading to a Orton/Edge re-match and a Jericho/benoit title match. Then from RAW you could have gone Orton/Edge, Kane/Batista, Jericho/Benoit and HHH/Eugene with a possible La Resistance v Tajiri/Rhyno. That's four or five stellar matches to go with JBL/UT, Eddie/Kurt, Booker v. Reigns v. Cena v. Dupree, Rey/Spike, Dudleys/Kidman&London.
For all the people who keep talking about the Diva search, it's really quite simple. The entire contest is a work. All the girls are professional models, and they are not only getting to be on television, but they are also getting paid. They're all union, so if you put them on television, you HAVE to pay them. The official rules for the "contest" even say that the WWE has the right to ignore a fan vote and grant immunity to any girl they want to. It's a giant work, all the girls are in on it, and while it is a waste of time, it's hardly the worst angle the company's ever done.
-RAW DIVA SEARCH DISTRACTION OF THE WEEK: Kicking the holy tar out of Florida State. I hadn't played in Tallahassee yet, and I thought the Orange Bowl had a home field advantage but whereas my meter averages the bright yellow, until I created a little distance from FSU, the needle for their crowd was pinned to the right.
-I'm more convinced than ever Carmella's the ringer at this point. The fact that she put in NO effort in a preliminary round is akin to Larry Bird not taking his warmups off until the last round of a 3-point contest. OK, not EXACTLY like that. That Kamala segment was about 8 segments too long, though.
-I was just waiting for either Orton or Jericho to lose their grip accidentally and figure out what they were going to do to cover it. But over the last few months, the WWE has gotten very good at booking battle royales. The last two or three actually almost resemble *gasp* actual matches. That's a compliment. I didn't even know that was Rodney Mack..since they never really showed his face I just thought Albert finally discovered the joys of MicroTouch. Oh, and, thanks for giving away the ending of a one-hour match, guys.
-One thing that's been really enjoyable about Benoit's reign as champ is the feeling that at ANY TIME it could be over. I almost feel like I have to grade the first 53 or so minutes separately from the last 7. But the story they told through the course of it was solid and made sense, if only in context.
-Oh, and once again, there was a 3-1 attack by Evolution on a weakened victim, and WHERE was our Edge-a-lante? You know, you can't beleive in anything anymore...it's like the middle 45 minutes of Spider-Man 2.
-That SmackDown recap segement to me was just unbeleivable and preposterous...I just mean that I had no idea that Vince actually owned a necktie.
-By the way, in Jeb's list of trends, without going back and re-reading it, was there ever The Law Of The Single Blader? Which states "If only one person in a match bleeds, that person is more than likely winning". I say likely, since there are a few exceptions, but not a lot.
NEXT WEEK ON RAW: The most anticipated event in Raw Is Wieners history happens at the 10 o'clock segment during the Evolution segment involving a jealous HHH and his apprentice...Benoit re-injures his sternum during an unfortunate skee-ball injury at Chuck E Cheese...Carmela is seen in the ring reading a copy of "The DiVinci Code" in the middle of competition but somehow won't be voted off anyway...and tune in next week when you hear Chris Benoit say to the skee-ball prize attendant who shortchanges him on the stuffed panda...
I found the timing of the show curious overall. Why announce that the iron man match is at the top of the first hour and then not deliver it there, but instead do the diva thing? And then after the battle royal weren't we always promised that the iron man match was "next"? (Almost seems as though the man running the show thought the diva stuff would tank otherwise too)
Although on the flip side, if they had run the iron man match first and left all the other crap they ran for last, I may have flipped the channel at the top of the second hour and not come back period.
It's a dog eat dog world and I'm wearing milkbone undershorts.
"It's a giant work, all the girls are in on it, and while it is a waste of time, it's hardly the worst angle the company's ever done."
Really? I gotta say that maybe I missed few angles here and there but with the exception of Katie Vick and perhaps Beaver Cleavage, this is the worst angle ever. This is an insult to all the Divas out there and the Diva wannabes that are busting their ass making a living or trying to make a living while some pre choosen bimbo walks away with $250,000 for doing nothing more than being pretty. Beaver Cleavage ended quick, unlike this angle and Katie Vick got Kane into the ME, although not the way most woudl like it. This angle does nothing for wrestling or the fans and is an insult to everyones intelligence.
I take back my earlier statement. This is much worse than Vick and Cleavage. This is IMO the worst angle ever.
No. NOTHING on this planet is worse than Katie Vick. Nothing. For some goddamn reason, I still had some tape of the angle, and seeing it again before I have finally taped over all of that, well, I can tell you, NOTHING is as bad as Katie Vick. If anything came along that's actually worse, it'll surprise even me...actually it wouldn't.
Unfortunately, the tape cut off after only 25 minutes of the iron man match, so I didn't see the whole thing. From what I did see of the show, well.... I sort of like it. When will Eugene get the balls to beat up his uncle Eric, I ask? The battle royal was pretty good, though, and the diva search? Hehehe, well, not even close to Katie Vick, but somewhere around Mr. America country.
I just wish they said exactly which hour of the show will the iron man take place. When they just said "top of the hour" last week, you think, duh, the first hour. If they put that at the second half of the show, fine, but at least let us know specifically, so we won't get all pissy when we see a bunch of diva wannabes instead. Like I said, only got about the first hour and a half of Raw, so judging from that, it was pretty meh for me.
I'm loving Wpob's idea about involving Mae Young in the Diva Search. The only redeeming factor in that whole fiasco of a segment was seeing Kamala. That was cool, but I'll be damned if those weren't the longest 20 minutes of drek that the WWE has forced viewers to sit through. These girls are terrible, and sorry, but with the exception of a few who are merely "stripper hot," none of them are really all that.
I'm just thinking about how last week, the girls couldn't stop giggling when Bishoff freaked out on them. If they were "actresses" they would have reacted in a better way to pull of the skit instead of "Look at my bouncy, bouncy hooters as I giggle." Terrific. Now we've got the female WWE version of Jimmy Fallon and will have one girl skate by through angles and skits on the "cute factor" and laugh herself silly among actual professionals who have actually worked to get where they are. At least on Tough Enough, the women busted their asses in the ring.
As for the rest of the program, it was GREAT. Truthfully, based on those last few minutes of the battle royal between Jericho and Orton, I would have loved to have seen a match between those two guys at Summer Slam. However, I predict that HHH might try and strong arm Orton into giving up his title shot at Summer Slam, then HHH and Orton feud will begin. This actually looks like it's getting interesting.
A big "WORD" on poor Regal wearing the ugliest singlet ever in the history of wrestling. I think he should have resurrected his "Real Man's Man" gear instead. Oh, how I miss that theme music.
I'm not really a fan of Iron Man Matches, but this one was pretty good. A little predictable at the end, but I was kinda shocked to see HHH hold up that well for that long and actually toss out a few real manuevers besides the pedigree. Glad to see Benoit retain the title, though.
Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34Was anyone half expecting the "former WWE superstar" the Diva's had to verbally seduce to be Pat Patterson? Now THAT would've been some good comedy.
Yeah, but the whole Patterson thing is an inside joke, and thus you'd risk going over the head of half the audience who may NOT know about Pat Patterson and his orientation. Whereas while I don't think Kamala should have been by himself in that segment, having a barely-communitive fat African tribesman with a moon on his belly takes a lot less time to explain than something like that. It was a doomed segment either way, so you may as well go for the easy joke.
Really, the only way that segment could have been salvaged is if Kamala put at least a few of them in a boiling pot and ate them.
-Battle Royal- I usually don't like Battle Royal because mostly they are punch & kick fest with a few spots. Regal was first to be eliminated which wouldn't be my guess. Maven being in the final 6 wouldn't be my guess either. Rhyno actually looked pretty good throwing his Goar's around... Ooh Jericho eliminating Edge(uh oh heel seeds). Whenever I see two guys in a BR doing a "close to elimination" bit in a match I always wonder what happens if one accidentally eliminates himself. Well not much one-on-one action during the final 2 guys. Lots of apron close to elimination spots. Nice RKO as Jericho was going between the ropes, would have probably been a sweeter finish.
-Diva Search- of horror! Last week was bad, but it was can't really turn away bad. This week was just so stupid, 9 times doing the same thing. Props for the girl getting the cheap pop wearing a Steelers jersey, she saw the boo's last week so goes for the face hometown reaction. I actually thought it would have been funny if last week one said they were from DC even when they're not just to get a huge cheer... Ads and Back, oh gawd there's more! They all come out to faint boos, 2 weeks in and 2 arena crowd seem sick of them already. Boy does Carmella is acting like this is all so stupid(and she's right) and doesn't even want to be there. She's very pretty but her body language is someone I don't want to see on a weekly bases. I don't necessary "like" any of these chicks, but there's a couple of them that might have some charm & I could deal with them as they seem excited to be there unlike Carmella.
-Benoit vs. HHH- That's some strange selling of Benoit's dragon whip by HHH, he flings himself halfway across the ring. Uh oh kind of a mess up in Benoit reversing HHH into the corner & not throwing him hard as HHH stopped, but like JR defended & I believe. I don't think little stuff like that takes away from anything. Wow Tope by Benoit on HHH as Benoit eats more guardrail then connecting with HHH, JR throws out a Pegasus Kid reference... Benoit goes crashing into the turnbuckle in full speed sternum first. Also nice spot on dropping Benoit on the steps sternum first & getting a countout win. Long sharpshooter struggle to wake up the crowd as HHH taps out, also taps to the crossface. Nasty blade by Benoit, even nastier chair shot Benoit took to the back of the head YIKES. Eugene runs in & destroys Evolution, lifts the ref with major force & throws him in the ring. Benoit crawls, puts his arm over HHH & wins 4-3
-OtherStuff- Orton says he'll be proud to wrestle HHH in Summerslam and wishes him luck. HHH says he doesn't need luck.
-Line of the Night: Ross "Pegasus Kid" -Sign of the Night: "This bores me" -3Stars of the Night: 1)Benoit. 2)HHH. 3)Orton.
A 2-hour show with 3 individual segments. I guess it was smart to have a Battle Royal, at least all the guys got on TV in the shortest amount of time. The Iron man match was very good, but wouldn't put it in MOTY category. There were some great spots like Benoit's Tope & HHH dropping Benoit sternum first on the steps, but the crowd didn't seem really into it until the last ten minutes. I don't think it was as good as Angle/Brock from SD but that's not taking anything away from this match as it was very good... The divasearch this week was just BAD. Of course the worst part of it, come hell or high water they are obligated in it for 8 more weeks, Aaaaw.
smark/net attack wienerville advisory is raised to YELLOW alert - Elevated (JBL is the new WWE champion, good gawd hide under the desk. But Benoit is World Champion allowing some safety in the IWC)- 6/28
Why do most people seem to see it as a foregone conclusion that Benoit will lose to Orton at Summerslam? Orton isn't ready for the big belt yet (and I personally don't think he'll ever be), but a strong showing where he just loses would be the next logical step if WWE insists on continuing to push him. Benoit could carry him to a great match, but he can't wrestle well without someone really good to cover up his sad skills. Considering the talent on the roster, crowning someone who needs to be carried to a ***1/2 match the World Champ seems a little ludicrous, even for Vince. At least Lesnar could wrestle. That made him being shoved down our collective throat a little more palatable. Orton looks half-drunk in the ring.
"Are you- are you sad?"
"But your- your songs are sad."
-My songs are of time and distance. The sadness is in you. Watch my arms. There is only the dance. These things you treasure are shells.
Man. Benoit really needs to work on that suicide dive maneuver. Like Lawler called it last night, he only "glancingly" hit HHH and his neck and head bounced right off the top of the security wall. I mean he should at least make it so he can connect it more on HHH.
I agree with your conclusion about Orton/Benoit at Summerslam Jakegnosis, but after last night it seems the direction the booking is heading to is a run for Orton as the world champ. I mean, I definitely agree that Orton isn't ready to hold the belt yet either, and I think his match at Vengeance was evidence of that.
"Don't compare my arm to your cheap arm!" -Edward Elric
Originally posted by The Vile1I agree with your conclusion about Orton/Benoit at Summerslam Jakegnosis, but after last night it seems the direction the booking is heading to is a run for Orton as the world champ. I mean, I definitely agree that Orton isn't ready to hold the belt yet either, and I think his match at Vengeance was evidence of that.
I'm thinking that Orton will ALMOST win the belt at Summerslam, only to have Triple H come down and cost him the victory because Orton is 'beneath him'. One of the things this leads to the Triple H/Orton split everyone's been talking about lately. They could also go that route with Orton winning the belt, but the added piece of ding it this way is that they can ignore Benoit after Triple H becomes involved and make the 'real storyline' be about Triple H and his feud, which seems to be the way they've been booking all matches with either Triple H or Benoit. My last 30 seconds of Summerslam:
Camera1: Triple H mockingly laughing at Orton from the aisle. Camera2: Orton fuming back from inside the ring. Camera1: Triple H mouthing off words telling Orton nobody beats Benoit but him. Jim Ross: By Gawd! Triple H has changed the course of WWE history yet again! Benoit (jumping up and down holding the belt): HEY! ANYONE REMEMBER ME?!? I'M SUPPOSED TO BE THE CHAMPION, DAMMIT! Camera1: Triple H smirks as Jim Ross tells us to tune in tomorrow to see what Triple H has in store for us all next! Lawler yells out "What just happened J.R.?!?" but gets half cut off as the show ends.
I am not a fan of Orton, but I have to say that the whole Orton title shot vs. the winner of the iron man match made me like the match a whole lot more. I like to me made to wonder what way they are going, and I was not so sure that an Orton Battle Royal win meant Beniot retained. Fact is, a lot of possibilities opened up by going that way, and now that Beniot has retained, Orton-Beniot is only part of it. While I am not advocating a Orton title win, it will be much more entertaining having Orton the champ vs. HHH the challenger than having HHH the champ telling Orton to "lay down" for him. I thought it was a good show, convention coverage and diva crap notwithstanding.
Without a doubt the funnies thing I've seen on RAW was Stacey Keibler reciting the most important political issues to her as a member of the 18-30 demographic.. I sniggered at her first response, then she started in about healthcare and I was howling with laughter for the next thirty seconds.. I couldn't take it.. Highest of high comedy.. Watch her eyes wander as she tries to remember her lines..
Kudos to you, Stacey..
I missed the first couple Kamala bits, I came in to see one and thought it was probably the worst thing I'd ever seen and turned it off.
Carmella's "We're getting paid for this, right?" routine makes me like her the most. To see all the other wannabes hopping and dancing around like complete idiots, then she just walks out, gives a half wave, not even bothering to dance or anything.. High marks for that. I watched that whole segment because they were playing the Hives' "Walk, Idiot, Walk" (a wry joke?) which is a great song.
I usually like Battle Royals and this was no exception. Rhyno had some great spots... My favorite part of the Rumbles is when guys with a "null" push level get thrown out to extra-disappointed groans from the crowd. A good barometer of who the crowd wants to get behind but doesn't have a chance too.. Rhyno, Hurricane, even Rosey was getting love in this respect. Orton and Batista are getting some love as well. I liked how the crowd got hyped for the Batista-Kane faceoff. I was wondering if we would see a little evolution splinter prior to the finish but we got Orton/Jericho which was nice. Orton winning was fine with me, I was looking forward to the fallout and count me as one who didn't think the Orton win necessarily meant Benoit would retain.
Originally posted by BOSsportsfan34Was anyone half expecting the "former WWE superstar" the Diva's had to verbally seduce to be Pat Patterson? Now THAT would've been some good comedy.
My first thought when they announced "former WWE superstar" was Goldust.
S'io credesse che mia risposta fosse a persona che mai tornasse al mondo, questa fiamma staria senzu piu scosse. Ma per cio che giammai di questo fondo non torno vivo alcun, s'i'odo il vero, senza tema d'infamia ti rispondo.
"but with the exception of Katie Vick and perhaps Beaver Cleavage, this is the worst angle ever"
Vick, Cleavage (and it's coda, "Chaz beats his girlfriend"), hand baby, Bossman kills Al Snow's dog and feeds it to him, almost anything Mark Henry's been involved with. All much worse than the Diva search. I'll admit, for the sheer quantity of time it has, and is going to waste, the Diva search is tops. For for quality, it can't even touch these gems. The Diva search is just stupid. All these angles were not only baffling in their creation, but patently offensive to some degree.
No, what I meant is that he would not be able to be demanding of higher wages or better spots until he has proven to the fans that he is a team-player again and is willing to rebuild his WWE career from a lower level than when he left.